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EuroHorn

EuroHorn 3268

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Millions of Americans care.

2% is the Fed Target for inflation and we are struggling to get there. We are at 1.4% despite a 20%+ increase in dollars.  That is a money velocity issue and it bodes poorly for the American or the World economies.

Disinflationary/deflationary headwinds remain strong. 

And deflation is much more difficult to manage than inflation - econ 101.

Good day.

Well if we only increased the velocity of money...

and nice pivot on the meaningless graph you posted above...Yes, you can increase the money supply and not increase inflation. (If the velocity of money decreases)

Edited by EuroHorn
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immamac
immamac

@GRHorn I'm going to dinner at Bob's tomorrow and expensing it to the surly business account simply to re-take the picture that is your avatar, and I'm going to replace it with one that actually looks

Beau Vine
Beau Vine

The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed at its all-time high today, so I'd like to congratulate Joe Biden for building the greatest economy the world has ever seen.

mdmost
mdmost

Let us know the results after you take it

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29387

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Who cares. I was just pointing out the basics of inflation.
 

You just need to add this line to your graph above.  Then you can explain why inflation is kept in check 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

Any time economic theory and actual facts conflict, Republicans immediately throw out the facts in order to cling to the theory.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105336

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Nice roundup from AP. Joe Biden's Go Big rollout is built around keeping promises made in the campaign. Good.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-personal-taxes-cedric-richmond-coronavirus-pandemic-9cb3f71cbd53f0bcece36268b4a81ed3

800.jpeg

For the conservatives just checking in on reality:

  •   Hide contents

     

    •  Joe Biden did not promise much - at all.
    • That pissed off progressives, who held their tongues and supported Biden enthusiastically.
    • Go Big is too damn small, using CBO measurement tools for fiscal management. 
    • Go Big is not entirely the truth. It is small to progressives - and enormous to the economics-naive  always-trumpers and their ilk.
    • The centrists don't know which way to turn -
      • side with trumpers to appear more all-american stupid, or
      • look at the economic measurement tools from the CBO and recognize more stimulus will be needed.  
    • The neoliberal lads on the right should look at CBO measurements and think like a conservative. 
      • conservatives recognize decay as a risk to the status quo
      • repair. 
    • at the present, the boat is taking on more water than the bilge can pump out due to austerity measures in place since the 1980's. 
      • Fix the bilge pumps or there will be no more boat - from an economics perspective.
    • progressives say follow the science and the data. 
    • I cannot stress this enough - means testing is completely inappropriate for this type of stimulus.
      • The economy needs enough spice flow to refill all channels taken down with Covid.
      • It is the flow of spice - the velocity of money - that is broken.
    • TLDR: Take your damn stimulus and spend it like you would have pre-Covid, if you can.
      • And get vaccinated when it is your turn and wear your damn masks.
      • There will be businesses that never come back from this massive hole in the economy.
        • Look at the large migration office workers to at-home work. It is much cheaper and more time efficient.
        • There will be lot of displacement and help will be needed.
        • Investment in the community that supplies employees and customers pays rewards for all - especially those at the tippy top.
        • The nation's wealth rises upwards. Always has; always will.  
    • Personally, I would subsidize the small businesses you value the most and those who are most threatened, if you have excess and want to invest in your community.
    • Stimulus should be given to all - so all the channels have additional money velocity. 

     

    Hook 'em

Excellent post.  Seriously, some plain hard truths in there.  Now is when you throw all the shit you can at the problem.  It's not much different than a wartime economy.  We didn't dither about opening up an other assembly line for B-17s, we just did it.  If we overbuilt, great - that means we WON THE FUCKING WAR.

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Romney's is better than Biden's for sure.

lol it's absolutely hilarious that Mitt Romney is like the policy god of america

It kinda is.  He's such a mixed figure.  Very much out of touch with normal people (economically, culturally, and yes, religiously -- dude, mormons are wierd).  But he also understands real-world economics -- for better and for worse (Bain Capital hasn't exactly been an angel to America).  I do think that his heart is in the right place and fuck, in this America, that puts him head and shoulders above most.

1 hour ago, EuroHorn said:

The only thing keeping inflation from sky rocketing is that the velocity of money has been kept in check. But yea, let’s increase the velocity and supply of money and see spending power go down by half 

Velocity of money has been "kept in check?"  Dude.....over the past 12 months, the "velocity of money" has been slowed to below School Zone speeds.  Putting our foot on the gas to get it BACK to a regular road speed of 40mph is not going to be a material driver of inflation.  Once you dramatically depress something, restoring it to prior levels is in no way the same as "increasing it from the baseline."  Going from 40 mph to 20 mph crushes the velocity of money.  Juicing the speed to 75 mph would likely increase it well beyond the baseline, creating inflationary pressure.  Restoring it to somewhere in the 35-45 mph range isn't increasing anything -- it's getting us back to the baseline.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19224

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Posted
1 hour ago, LurkingHorn said:

That's a very intriguing proposal. Googled to find more info and came across this:

 

Since y’all are in such a hurry to give away my money, I hope it goes to something worthwhile like this and not another stimulus to the likes of wulaw and others that don’t need it.  Use it for those that really do need it.

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EuroHorn

EuroHorn 3268

Posted
Posted
Just now, Fudge Nuggets said:

Since y’all are in such a hurry to give away my money, I hope it goes to something worthwhile like this and not another stimulus to the likes of wulaw and others that don’t need it.  Use it for those that really do need it.

I want stimulus. I see it as getting my money back. 

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19224

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Millions of Americans care.

2% is the Fed Target for inflation and we are struggling to get there. We are at 1.4% despite a 20%+ increase in dollars.  That is a money velocity issue and it bodes poorly for the American or the World economies.

Disinflationary/deflationary headwinds remain strong. 

And deflation is much more difficult to manage than inflation - econ 101.

Good day.

I wish some of these deflationary headwinds would start showing up on my HEB bills.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105336

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Since y’all are in such a hurry to give away my money, I hope it goes to something worthwhile like this and not another stimulus to the likes of wulaw and others that don’t need it.  Use it for those that really do need it.

When you realize that stimulus has two purposes:

1) yes, it's a help to people whose income is hurting.

2) by giving money to consumers, they are likely to spend a good portion of it, functioning as a direct injection of fuel into the carburetor of the economy (yeah, old school stuff there) that is absolutely sputtering right now.

In short, the benefit is both to the recipient of the stimulus, and the economic actors who will get the juice from the spending of the stimulus by those recipients.  We desperately need to juice the economy right now (one reason that the "tax cut" was ill-timed -- that's a CLASSIC stimulus measure -- although the structure of the tax cut wasn't even one that would provide much stimulus anyway, but I digress).  There's a fair chance of a decent natural increase in the velocity of money by the fall, when the virus will likely be in a place where we can resume a lot of activities that involve spending money, but we have to MAKE it to the fall, and September is a long fucking way away right now.

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Js1

Js1 85574

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

When you realize that stimulus has two purposes:

1) yes, it's a help to people whose income is hurting.

2) by giving money to consumers, they are likely to spend a good portion of it, functioning as a direct injection of fuel into the carburetor of the economy (yeah, old school stuff there) that is absolutely sputtering right now.

In short, the benefit is both to the recipient of the stimulus, and the economic actors who will get the juice from the spending of the stimulus by those recipients.  We desperately need to juice the economy right now (one reason that the "tax cut" was ill-timed -- that's a CLASSIC stimulus measure -- although the structure of the tax cut wasn't even one that would provide much stimulus anyway, but I digress).  There's a fair chance of a decent natural increase in the velocity of money by the fall, when the virus will likely be in a place where we can resume a lot of activities that involve spending money, but we have to MAKE it to the fall, and September is a long fucking way away right now.

I mean, did I need the $1800 I've gotten?

Not really.  Did I spend it to help juice the economy? Hell yeah I fucking did.  Some bigger purchases I've been waiting on got bought.  I picked up food more often to help out local businesses.  I frequented more local small businesses with my stimulus money - plant shops, small art galleries, local brewers and distilleries.....and dispensaries, etc. 

Edited by Js1
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LurkingHorn

LurkingHorn 1069

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Since y’all are in such a hurry to give away my money, I hope it goes to something worthwhile like this and not another stimulus to the likes of wulaw and others that don’t need it.  Use it for those that really do need it.

Perhaps you didn't read the part where Romney's proposal is deficit-neutral. So don't worry, we won't have to give any more of your money away. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26553

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Posted
1 hour ago, EuroHorn said:

The only thing keeping inflation from sky rocketing is that the velocity of money has been kept in check. But yea, let’s increase the velocity and supply of money and see spending power go down by half 

michael.jpg

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Romney's is better than Biden's for sure.

lol it's absolutely hilarious that Mitt Romney is like the policy god of america

The old liberal Republicans were always pretty good at domestic policy. 

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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Posted
2 hours ago, Js1 said:

I mean, did I need the $1800 I've gotten?

Not really.  Did I spend it to help juice the economy? Hell yeah I fucking did.  Some bigger purchases I've been waiting on got bought.  I picked up food more often to help out local businesses.  I frequented more local small businesses with my stimulus money - plant shops, small art galleries, local brewers and distilleries.....and dispensaries, etc. 

What a baller you are

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46130

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Posted
36 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

How did so many of you get stimulus payments? I’m completely scoped out.

Aren't you an NYC resident?  I would assume your salary is bumped accordingly.  (I have no idea what you do or how much you make, but the flat prorate curve on the stimulus pretty much puts middle class and above in any big city out of the stimulus money.)

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19142

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Posted
Aren't you an NYC resident?  I would assume your salary is bumped accordingly.  (I have no idea what you do or how much you make, but the flat prorate curve on the stimulus pretty much puts middle class and above in any big city out of the stimulus money.)

Yes, and I’ll put it this way, I’m at risk for those 60% marginal rates that had people talking when Biden released his tax plan, but I voted for him anyway. My shock is I thought the Surl was full of big swinging disc, but less than anticipated given the amount of folks who got that stimulus money.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46130

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Posted
36 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:


Yes, and I’ll put it this way, I’m at risk for those 60% marginal rates that had people talking when Biden released his tax plan, but I voted for him anyway. My shock is I thought the Surl was full of big swinging disc, but less than anticipated given the amount of folks who got that stimulus money.

Well, the vast majority of people who graduate from great universities don't go on to be CEOs or big money financial guys, etc.  I think surly is mostly topped out at the tenured professor, engineer, lawyer type, with the occasional big swingin' dick doc thrown in for good measure.  @ChiTownDoc

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landman

landman 559

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Posted
3 hours ago, LurkingHorn said:

Perhaps you didn't read the part where Romney's proposal is deficit-neutral. So don't worry, we won't have to give any more of your money away. 

Not for that.  But it will be given away erasing student loans.  

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Romney's is better than Biden's for sure.

lol it's absolutely hilarious that Mitt Romney is like the policy god of america

Good policy is good policy.

He still put a dog in a kennel on the roof of his car so he can eat a dick for eternity, though.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:


Yes, and I’ll put it this way, I’m at risk for those 60% marginal rates that had people talking when Biden released his tax plan, but I voted for him anyway. My shock is I thought the Surl was full of big swinging disc, but less than anticipated given the amount of folks who got that stimulus money.

That's because all these fuckers are lawyers who make $400k but somehow finagle it to look like they lose money every year.

Did not get stimulus. Fine with not getting the second round. I'm fine, don't need it and if I get it it's going straight into the retirement account which doesn't stimulate the economy. 

It's funny how the few Republicans posting on this thread are being welfare queens all of the sudden. Gimme gimme gimme! 

Edited by BradInATX
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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

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Posted
7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

That's because all these fuckers are lawyers who make $400k but somehow finagle it to look like they lose money every year.

Did not get stimulus. Fine with not getting the second round. I'm fine, don't need it and if I get it it's going straight into the retirement account which doesn't stimulate the economy. 

It's funny how the few Republicans posting on this thread are being welfare queens all of the sudden. Gimme gimme gimme! 

Means testing is dumb is why; either everyone gets it or nobody should get it I say.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17682

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:


Yes, and I’ll put it this way, I’m at risk for those 60% marginal rates that had people talking when Biden released his tax plan, but I voted for him anyway. My shock is I thought the Surl was full of big swinging disc, but less than anticipated given the amount of folks who got that stimulus money.

We've seen your twitter game. Everyone here knows you have the biggest, swingingest dick of all.  

Edited by Dahobbs
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Means testing is dumb is why; either everyone gets it or nobody should get it I say.

I mean I generally agree. Especially given that there are a lot of finances way out of whack due to Covid and there's no real way to capture "need". 

But it's still an interesting phenomenon that all of the sudden, "fiscal conservatives" in the top 3-4% of wealth in the country are welfare queens.

Edited by BradInATX
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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I mean I generally agree. Especially given that there are a lot of finances way out of whack due to Covid and there's no real way to capture "need". 

But it's still an interesting phenomenon that all of the sudden, "fiscal conservatives" in the top 3-4% of wealth in the country are welfare queens.

I don’t know you or your posting history, so I’m not sure if you are being serious or ironic, but “welfare Queens” is problematic at best and racist at worst. Just a tip.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I don’t know you or your posting history, so I’m not sure if you are being serious or ironic, but “welfare Queens” is problematic at best and racist at worst. Just a tip.

Sort of the point of my post. The same types who scoff at and create racist code words for minorities on government assistance are now demanding a government handout. EuroHorn is a good example. If you read his posting history he's absolutely the type of guy that sits around with his buddies and bitches about welfare queens and thugs and Obamaphones, and here he is on this very thread with his hand out like a good little panhandler, demanding free money.

Edited by BradInATX
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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted
Just now, BradInATX said:

Sort of the point of my post. The same types who scoff at and create racist code words for minorities on government assistance are now demanding a government handout. EuroHorn is a good example. If you read his posting history he's absolutely the type of guy that sits around with his buddies and bitches about welfare queens and thugs, and here he is on this very thread with his hand out like a good little panhandler.

Well like you said; generally it’s good for everyone to get the same benefits of the government is going to dole them out here. “Stimulus for thee and also for me” which I think is the ideal state considering I see “for ther but not me” a lot to decry hypocrisy 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
Well like you said; generally it’s good for everyone to get the same benefits of the government is going to dole them out here. “Stimulus for thee and also for me” which I think is the ideal state considering I see “for ther but not me” a lot to decry hypocrisy 
Is there any concrete reason you say it's good for everyone to get the same benefits? Or is it just something you feel should be fair?
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EuroHorn

EuroHorn 3268

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Sort of the point of my post. The same types who scoff at and create racist code words for minorities on government assistance are now demanding a government handout. EuroHorn is a good example. If you read his posting history he's absolutely the type of guy that sits around with his buddies and bitches about welfare queens and thugs and Obamaphones, and here he is on this very thread with his hand out like a good little panhandler, demanding free money.

Demanding free money?  I have no problem getting more of my money back.  You being a meathead would say things that you have no idea what you’re talking about. You need to lay off the roids.  Hopefully the offspring that your wife is about to squeeze out of her frothy cunt doesn’t end up like a moron like you.  A 40 something data analyst.  Lol. 

Edited by EuroHorn
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Imagine joining something like the air force, collecting a taxpayer funded paycheck for years on end, and then being this much of a bitch.

*cop who makes $95k/year to beat up black teenagers*

"I'm so tired of these damn GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS!"

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:
1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:
Means testing is dumb is why; either everyone gets it or nobody should get it I say.

So if Florida gets hit by a hurricane, everyone in Montana should get FEMA relief money?

No but everybody is hit by Hurricane Covid.

If Florida started means testing after a hurricane that would be horrible.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Demanding free money?  I have no problem getting more of my money back.  You being a meathead would say things that you have no idea what you’re talking about. You need to lay off the roids.  Hopefully the offspring that your wife is about to squeeze out of her frothy cunt doesn’t end up like a moron like you.  A 40 something data analyst.  Lol. 

This seems like a very personal and specific takedown. Are you two friends in real life or something!?

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Imagine joining something like the air force, collecting a taxpayer funded paycheck for years on end, and then being this much of a bitch.

I feel like this isn’t fair. You are being paid to defend, potentially with your life, the country and civilians (I guess this is debatable but generally true to most folks way of thinking); on the other hand, you are getting paid just for being a human being citizen (not necessarily bad; I think all people should be paid).

What is it with people and not making apples to apples analogies, to prove a point?

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