Joe Biden 2021

[Js1 85,085]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not a single jump.  It's a phased increase between now and 2025, so at least be intellectually honest and acknowledge the reality of the situation.

The last one wasn't either.  It went from from $5.15 to $5.85 in 2007, then to $6.55 in 2008 and then $7.25 in 2009. 

This one has a proposed 5 year phase-in. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

38 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not a single jump.  It's a phased increase between now and 2025, so at least be intellectually honest and acknowledge the reality of the situation.

Did you not read this part? 

1) What were the increases each time there were raised? I think I read this represents the largest single jump (by a wide margin, over 50% for a lot of states) in history. That probably has a lot more implications than raising it a tick or two. And this is taking into account the transition over a couple of years, which is a blip on the radar of time.

[jimmyjazz 45,538]

17 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Did you not read this part? 

1) What were the increases each time there were raised? I think I read this represents the largest single jump (by a wide margin, over 50% for a lot of states) in history. That probably has a lot more implications than raising it a tick or two. And this is taking into account the transition over a couple of years, which is a blip on the radar of time.

It's not a couple of years, and it's not a blip given the fact that these staged rollups aren't uncommon.  As noted before, the last increase was 40% in 3 years.  This is a bigger increase but over 5 years.  

I encourage you to look at a chart of minimum wage adjusted for inflation.  It has been range-bound and nearly stagnant for some 30 years, a period of time in which wealth in the US has been shifted dramatically towards the upper percentile or two.

[Tom 2,959]

 

[Js1 85,085]

22 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Did you not read this part? 

1) What were the increases each time there were raised? I think I read this represents the largest single jump (by a wide margin, over 50% for a lot of states) in history. That probably has a lot more implications than raising it a tick or two. And this is taking into account the transition over a couple of years, which is a blip on the radar of time.

Just so you know, Seattle passed the $15 minimum wage in 2014 with a 5 year phase-in.  There's been multiple studies with differing conclusions on the overall effect, but it does not appear such a phase-in led to massive job losses.   Some services cost more than before, some goods stayed the same price (like food prices at grocery stores), some companies decided to close their doors (but some of that was due to rising rent and food costs already), some changed their pay structures and organized more efficiently (goodbye tipping culture!)

I'll let you google and do the research on it, instead of relying on everyone else to do it for you. 

[jimmyjazz 45,538]

Comparing annual rate of growth to the last minimum wage rollup:

2007-2009:  12%

2021-2026:  15.7%

 

It's more, but it's not astronomically more.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

All good stuff, but let’s remember, we are talking about a unique state. It’s Democratic West Virginia. Small population and not wealthy or industrious.

Quote

Dr. John Deskins, director and assistant dean for outreach engagement at West Virginia University’s Chambers College of Business and Economics, said it’s odd that the federal government is wanting to impose the same wage across the nation, even though labor markets are different everywhere.

“We refer to it as a tradeoff between efficiency and equity. The idea is this helps us promote equity in some sense because it helps lift up the most underpaid workers in the country and helps even out income distribution, and some people think that’s more fair. ...

“On the other hand, it has negative efficiency implications because in many cases, businesses are going to see they have to pay those higher wages, and they are not going to be able to do it. They are going to have to cut back on workers. They are going to just maybe reduce output in some sense and cut back,” Deskins said.

Quote

“What they know federally is the last minimum wage increase went into effect almost 12 years ago, and it’s been more recently at the state level. There may be some room for some growth, but to $15 an hour may not be feasible in West Virginia,” Dayton said.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, millions of jobs would be lost with the federal increase in effect, he said.

“If it was bumped up to $15 an hour by 2025, the CBO estimated that approximately 1.3 million workers would become jobless, but that number could be as high as 3.7 million. That’s national, but 3.7 million is more than twice the population of West Virginia. That’s significant,” Dayton said.

Quote

However, significant shifts in labor costs do not happen in a vacuum.  Here are a few other findings by the CBO:

—Employment would be reduced by 1.9 million workers because of the higher cost of labor.

—Employers would offset the higher cost of producing goods and services by passing “some of those increased costs on to consumers in the form of higher prices.”

—More employers would reduce their labor costs through mechanization and automation (think kiosks at fast food restaurants instead of humans). Those same restaurants would also have to raise prices.

I think Manchin has a hard job. On one hand he has to support the state and the businesses that provide a life line to people and the tax base and budget and on the other people are poor and clamoring for the pay raise.

I don’t envy him; it’s a very weird state and I’d bet hard to manage and lonesome: his peers, typical D’s, don’t have his same unique make up and pains.

Anyways, as a Texan, I’ll hang up and listen.

Edited March 2, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Biff Tannen 45,491]

How hard would it be to have a floor based on cost of living?  Maybe one floor for metro areas and another for rural?  Probably a terrible idea, but couldn’t it be done?

[Bone3421 716]

How hard would it be to have a floor based on cost of living?  Maybe one floor for metro areas and another for rural?  Probably a terrible idea, but couldn’t it be done?

I would say very very hard. Hell I know I would go live in a van in NYC and get that cost of living basis then come back to cheaper place in Texas lol

[gmr548 16,482]

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

How hard would it be to have a floor based on cost of living?  Maybe one floor for metro areas and another for rural?  Probably a terrible idea, but couldn’t it be done?

HUD already calculates area median income and sets individual income limits for low income housing in every county/metro area in the county. Now, there's a lot to unpack in the idea, from unintended consequences to enforcement to what have you, but yeah it could be done.

[Js1 85,085]

Idk where else to put it - but the PR statehood bill was released for the House and has 11 GOP sponsors 

• Don Bacon (NE-2)
• Gus Bilirakis (FL-12)
• Mario Diaz-Balart (FL-25)
• Andrew Garbarino (NY-2)
• Carlos Gimenez (FL-26)
• John Katko (NY-24)
• Bill Posey (FL-8)
• Maria Salazar (FL-27)
• Pete Sessions (TX-17)
• Elise Stefanik (NY-21)
• Michael Waltz (FL-6)
• Don Young (AK)

Will they all vote for it? Who knows. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1,291]

13 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

16 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

How hard would it be to have a floor based on cost of living?  Maybe one floor for metro areas and another for rural?  Probably a terrible idea, but couldn’t it be done?

I would say very very hard. Hell I know I would go live in a van in NYC and get that cost of living basis then come back to cheaper place in Texas lol

I don't think the NY minimum wage would be enough for you to afford to park your van.

[Biff Tannen 45,491]

1 hour ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

I don't think the NY minimum wage would be enough for you to afford to park your van.

[gmr548 16,482]

Idk where else to put it - but the PR statehood bill was released for the House and has 11 GOP sponsors 

• Don Bacon (NE-2)
• Gus Bilirakis (FL-12)
• Mario Diaz-Balart (FL-25)
• Andrew Garbarino (NY-2)
• Carlos Gimenez (FL-26)
• John Katko (NY-24)
• Bill Posey (FL-8)
• Maria Salazar (FL-27)
• Pete Sessions (TX-17)
• Elise Stefanik (NY-21)
• Michael Waltz (FL-6)
• Don Young (AK)

Will they all vote for it? Who knows. 

Could that get through the senate via reconciliation? I know the bar is impact on budget/revenue, but I’m not familiar with the details. I would’ve thought impact on federal revenue from income taxes with a minimum wage increase would’ve cleared that bar, but it didn’t, so I know fuck all.

[Js1 85,085]

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Could that get through the senate via reconciliation? I know the bar is impact on budget/revenue, but I’m not familiar with the details. I would’ve thought impact on federal revenue from income taxes with a minimum wage increase would’ve cleared that bar, but it didn’t, so I know fuck all.

I honestly don't know.   There's a Vox article that says it's unlikely to be something that could go into reconcilation.  Though you would be talking about impacting federal revenue because most PR residents don't pay federal income tax.  Suddenly you're adding a huge amount of federal income tax payers. 

Could they amend the filibuster to exclude statehood bills, like they did for Cabinet nominations, judicial nominations and SCOTUS nominations? I think so. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Js1

[Hank Scorpio 17,721]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Leadership! 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

20 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

 

I'm not buying it.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Ah yes, David Shuster of quickhitsnews.com - titan of media.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

11 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not buying it.

Why?

[DonkeyCigars 144]

24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why?

a) what BradinTX says and b) seems very unlikely that everyone just said "Okay cool hook 'em" and didnt try to reach across the aisle  walk into the guys office or have his friends grab some time on his calendar and probe into the objections and how to overcome them or ask what can be done.

[Ghost of LL 15,469]

42 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why?

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it either.  You want me to believe that, with the Administration's single most important legislative priority hanging in the balance, nobody in the Administration has talked to the single most important vote in the Senate?

I just don't believe that.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

 

kill everyone now, advocate cannibalism, eat shit. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

kill everyone now, advocate cannibalism, eat shit. 

I'm just so glad this is news and we have people engaging in this idiocy. So glad politics is back to normal, howboutu?

[Js1 85,085]

Stimulus and vaccines. ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES

[Tom 2,959]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Stimulus and vaccines. ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES

 

That Republican epiphany is surely coming any day now.  Keep holding your breath, everybody.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

a) what BradinTX says and b) seems very unlikely that everyone just said "Okay cool hook 'em" and didnt try to reach across the aisle  walk into the guys office or have his friends grab some time on his calendar and probe into the objections and how to overcome them or ask what can be done.

This is wishcasting. We have no idea because we haven't been told in either direction. This is the only thing we've heard either way.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,044]

12 hours ago, Js1 said:

Stimulus and vaccines. ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES

Playing to the base and it will work because they run circles around Dems in simple, repetitive, stupid, effective rhetoric.  

They'll likely pick up the majority again in 22. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

ABSOLUTELY BRAINDEAD STUPID 

FUCK JOE BIDEN FOR THIS.  TRUMP’s thresholds were more generous which means some folks that got $600 from Trump will get a fraction of the $1400.  The other idiotic thing about this is it’s based on 2019 income taxes which means if you made 85K in 2019 but lost your job or took a paycut in 2020 due to the pandemic, you get much less than others.  
 

This voluntary compromise move by Biden will win zero republican votes.  

Edited March 3, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[BradInATX 9,208]

Well, now we know Hugo makes between $75k and $80k/year.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Well, now we know Hugo makes between $75k and $80k/year.

LOLZ, I used to

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

22 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

I don't think the NY minimum wage would be enough for you to afford to park your van.

Parts of industrial Brooklyn and Queens look like RV parks these days. Parking is free in most places. One of the reasons that traffic sucks. 

[Js1 85,085]

3 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Playing to the base and it will work because they run circles around Dems in simple, repetitive, stupid, effective rhetoric.  

They'll likely pick up the majority again in 22. 

They are going to vote against money to re-open schools 100% by the fall and increase vaccines (everyone who wants one will get one by summer) and give direct relief to people in the form of direct payments and then have the audacity to blame the Democrats for not re-opening schools fast enough or increasing vaccines or providing relief.

And a bunch of morons will buy it hook, line and sinker. 

[Hank Scorpio 17,721]

Inside footage of the Biden team negotiating the stimulus. 
 

 

 

[Js1 85,085]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

 

[Satchel 6,908]

We need to pick up seats in both chambers in ‘22 so nobody will much care what Manchin does in West Virginia.

[GRHorn 105]

11 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

That was a long time ago. He’s gone downhill even since then. Now he just does what he’s told. 

 

[Js1 85,085]

Can you please regurgitate your Breitbart/OAN/Newsmax crap somewhere else? 

We're trying to actually run the country you so actively ruined and cheer for its ruin. 

[Dr. Teeth 5,824]

11 hours ago, Satchel said:

We need to pick up seats in both chambers in ‘22 so nobody will much care what Manchin does in West Virginia.

But the country sees one party as obstructing and thinking that party is the one that needs to take over power.

[MoJames 8,241]

I had a 50 year old patient yesterday who was getting Botox for migraines (secondary to a head injury from driving drunk) on medicaid and in assisted living tell me Joe Biden should be held accountable for those 13 mexican nationals that were killed in the car accident because he opened up the border.

[David Dennison 18,646]

23 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

ABSOLUTELY BRAINDEAD STUPID 

FUCK JOE BIDEN FOR THIS.  TRUMP’s thresholds were more generous which means some folks that got $600 from Trump will get a fraction of the $1400.  The other idiotic thing about this is it’s based on 2019 income taxes which means if you made 85K in 2019 but lost your job or took a paycut in 2020 due to the pandemic, you get much less than others.  
 

This voluntary compromise move by Biden will win zero republican votes.  

He's not trying to win Republican votes.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:42 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

ABSOLUTELY BRAINDEAD STUPID 

FUCK JOE BIDEN FOR THIS.  TRUMP’s thresholds were more generous which means some folks that got $600 from Trump will get a fraction of the $1400.  The other idiotic thing about this is it’s based on 2019 income taxes which means if you made 85K in 2019 but lost your job or took a paycut in 2020 due to the pandemic, you get much less than others.  
 

This voluntary compromise move by Biden will win zero republican votes.  

[Js1 85,085]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

That was a long time ago. He’s gone downhill even since then. Now he just does what he’s told. 

 

And now you get negged for posting fake news 

 

[Bruh Man 3,160]

13 hours ago, Satchel said:

We need to pick up seats in both chambers in ‘22 so nobody will much care what Manchin does in West Virginia.

Sounds like a winning message for the midterms. Send us ten more Democratic senators then we'll pass what you want!!!

Edited March 4, 2021 by Bruh Man

[Willfully Horn 7,913]

Thanks, Joe.

[Satchel 6,908]

Biden is doing some serious presidentin’ 

[LurkingHorn 1,044]

Biden brokers a deal between two rival giants to help get more vaccines and at more rapid pace. Trump turns down offer from Pfizer to supply additional 100 million doses before the summer which would have been no extra cost for the tax payer. I wonder how much better Joe would be if he wasn’t so sleepy all the time. 

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

I’ve argued before that Biden’s central insight in the campaign was that negative polarization — the degree to which we loathe the other side, even if we don’t much like our side — is now the most powerful force in American politics. Biden often refused to do things that would endear him to his base, because those same things would drive Republicans wild. That strategy is carrying over to his presidency. And in part because of it, the reaction to his signature legislative package, which really is a collection of policies progressives have dreamed of for years, isn’t cleaving along normal red-blue lines.

Like any other communications strategy, this will work until it doesn’t. Biden will have his failures, as all presidents do. But for now, it’s working, in defiance of the lessons many thought Trump’s presidency taught.

Remember a couple of months ago?

When @staboner would periodically remind us we weren't a glowing pile of ash and cinders?

Yeah. A couple of months ago.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Ezra Klein is not a "hard grader" and this is nothing but him making his move to join the establishment. Good on him I guess, but he has been at odds with true progressivism for years now. That the NYT sees fit to couch him as a leftist is a sad reminder of where we are with the Overton Window. 

I see little that could rank as something progressives really want that Biden truly wants to accomplish among any of this. He has been abandoning such ideas as soon as they face even imaginary resistance. 

Yes, he is setting a mature tone and has brought us back to a baseline of dignity coming from the White House but he is far closer to an '80s Republican than anything resembling a progressive. 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator