Joe Biden 2021

[washparkhorn 9974]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

It’s not that strange when you’d rather celebrate the losses than the wins.

said no one.

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

It kills them to admit it was a really transformative, progressive bill.

Progressive as measured by the extreme right austerity status-quo we find ourselves in.

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Stimulus, cuts child poverty in half, puts something like $8000 in the pockets of a middle class family of 4, etc. 

Yay for those who qualify. Made easier by the Deficit Hawk Republican running the Fed who has stated repeatedly we need stimulus because of the enormous hole in our economy. But - yay.

[Js1 87214]

Got it. You subscribe to the “all or nothing, my way only” approach or it wasn’t good enough. 

Unfortunately Democrats fucked around in too many midterms and they don’t have more than 50 votes.  Gotta play with the hand you’re dealt.

PA 2016, WI 2016, NC 2016/2020, FL 2018 was where Democrats, both center left and progressives, blew it. 

[washparkhorn 9974]

4 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Excellent statement. We can build on it - as we are able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I am not sure it will lift anyone fully out of poverty's death grip. But it is necessary for humans and the economy to persevere.

Thanks to 50 years of austerity, this nation is getting further and further behind the modern world. Those chickens are coming home to roost. One ignores them at one's own peril.  Yang talked about this in his campaign. Those headwinds continue to plague and threaten the nation.  

[mchookem 16775]

25 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

And I would submit that the day after the passing of the most progressive legislation in decades is a strange time to threaten your teammates.

not if you're a...bad_teammate.

i mean, somebody had to do it. 

[Chuckie Finster 23092]

you were saying

She sucks, no argument from me. Still need her vote, unfortunately.

[bad_teammate 13561]

This whole conversation started because yet another centrist wanted to whine about mean progressives and didn't even have a prompt. Just invented it out of thin air to start a fight online. Absolutely fucking tiresome shitlibbery.

It reminds me of how TexAgs's political forum has constant "Honest Question for a Liberal" threads started 100% in bad faith by right-wingers.

Edited March 7, 2021 by bad_teammate

[washparkhorn 9974]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

You subscribe to the “all or nothing, my way only” approach or it wasn’t good enough. 

I subscribe to full employment and low inflation. It is the best hope for humankind in this nation when so many in this nation subscribe to "fuck the poor." 

[bad_teammate 13561]

The whole "it's only been a month and a half!" thing is completely disingenuous because this was the only chance to get the minimum wage done.

- It cannot be done in future reconciliation bills because the parliamentarian decided and Biden decided that that unelected staffer's word is Gospel. 
- Senate Dems will not touch the filibuster, so reconciliation is the only way anything is ever going to be passed.

There is no magic trick Biden will pull in the final 45+ months of his first term. It's over now. The minimum wage will remain $7.25 until 2024 at the soonest. And we're supposed to be fine with that because of the repeated phrase "most progressive legislation" which doesn't actually feature any specific explanation as to what is so "progressive" about this relief bill. It's a temporary money giveaway during a crisis.

That's great, but acting like this is some kind of shift left is fucking stupid.

[fattyflattie 4640]

36 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I am not sure it will lift anyone fully out of poverty's death grip.

Yeah. That’s a bit much. 

[henrygandorf 29228]

can we move on to more pressing issues?  dc and pr statehood.  why not done?

talk about ridding ourselves of manchin/sinema shaped problems in one move.  well, two moves i guess technically.

[BradInATX 9208]

The whole "it's only been a month and a half!" thing is completely disingenuous because this was the only chance to get the minimum wage done.
- It cannot be done in future reconciliation bills because the parliamentarian decided and Biden decided that that unelected staffer's word is Gospel. 
- Senate Dems will not touch the filibuster, so reconciliation is the only way anything is ever going to be passed.
There is no magic trick Biden will pull in the final 45+ months of his first term. It's over now. The minimum wage will remain $7.25 until 2024 at the soonest. And we're supposed to be fine with that because of the repeated phrase "most progressive legislation" which doesn't actually feature any specific explanation as to what is so "progressive" about this relief bill. It's a temporary money giveaway during a crisis.
That's great, but acting like this is some kind of shift left is fucking stupid.

The magic trick is winning enough seats to make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The whole "it's only been a month and a half!" thing is completely disingenuous because this was the only chance to get the minimum wage done.

- It cannot be done in future reconciliation bills because the parliamentarian decided and Biden decided that that unelected staffer's word is Gospel. 
- Senate Dems will not touch the filibuster, so reconciliation is the only way anything is ever going to be passed.

There is no magic trick Biden will pull in the final 45+ months of his first term. It's over now. The minimum wage will remain $7.25 until 2024 at the soonest. And we're supposed to be fine with that because of the repeated phrase "most progressive legislation" which doesn't actually feature any specific explanation as to what is so "progressive" about this relief bill. It's a temporary money giveaway during a crisis.

That's great, but acting like this is some kind of shift left is fucking stupid.

You can act hysterical if you want but you’re wrong.

The minimum wage will be raised, probably not to 15 but more like 11 or  12 and then you can bitch about that.

Also the dems are gonna steamroll the republicans on voting rights and infrastructure. Just watch and see and then go ahead and bitch anyway because it wasn’t somehow “enough.”

[gmr548 16702]

You can act hysterical if you want but you’re wrong.
The minimum wage will be raised, probably not to 15 but more like 11 or  12 and then you can bitch about that.
Also the dems are gonna steamroll the republicans on voting rights and infrastructure. Just watch and see and then go ahead and bitch anyway because it wasn’t somehow “enough.”

HR-1 isn’t getting through the senate. Democrats won’t kill the filibuster.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

HR-1 isn’t getting through the senate. Democrats won’t kill the filibuster.

They won’t “kill” the filibuster but it is getting passed anyway. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Is merrick garland sitting on the Supreme Court? Is gorsuch?

Where there’s a will there’s a way.

[bad_teammate 13561]

lol nevermind

Edited March 8, 2021 by bad_teammate

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Manchin and Sinema are going to vote to abolish or reform the filibuster?

The latter, eventually.

[bad_teammate 13561]

6 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

So I get that progressives by design are never satisfied and sways pushing for more. And I get that Biden is not as progressive as many would like. But in less than two months, Biden has made it obvious that anyone claiming “moderate Democrats and Republicans are the same” is not someone living in reality.

In response to COVID, Republicans under Trump...
- Gave cash to people (less than Dems, but with more generous phase-outs)
- Expanded unemployment benefits

Can someone explain what makes this bill so "progressive" and so beyond anything a Republican would do?

I'm sure I'm missing something since I don't follow this stuff nearly as close as I used to.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5908]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

can we move on to more pressing issues?  dc and pr statehood.  why not done?

 

Hear hear! 

[washparkhorn 9974]

57 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

hysterical if you want but you’re wrong.

The minimum wage will be raised, probably not to 15 but more like 11 or  12 and then you can bitch about that.

What is the minimum wage in Arizona? $12.15 an hour.

https://www.azica.gov/labor-minimum-wage-main-page

Do you non-hysterically (your word) think Arizonans voted for the Senator because they thought the Arizona minimum wage was too high?  C'mon man. 
 

Spoiler

 

Bait and switch gets pushback 2020-forward in the Democratic Party.

As it should - when right-wing austerity sadists puff out their wee little cheeks in a cratered economy (like the trumpers did during Covid). 

 

Snap out of it. 

 

[henrygandorf 29228]

34 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

In response to COVID, Republicans under Trump...
- Gave cash to people (less than Dems, but with more generous phase-outs)
- Expanded unemployment benefits

Can someone explain what makes this bill so "progressive" and so beyond anything a Republican would do?

I'm sure I'm missing something since I don't follow this stuff nearly as close as I used to.

i think the sentiment is that the republicans were fine leaving a second stimulus alone entirely.  if they were still in charge, we certainly wouldn't have seen something this large.

i don't know the answer to the question of "what makes this bill so progressive".

[JimmyJames 12271]

8 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

What is the minimum wage in Arizona? $12.15 an hour.

https://www.azica.gov/labor-minimum-wage-main-page

Do you non-hysterically (your word) think Arizonans voted for the Senator because they thought the Arizona minimum wage was too high?  C'mon man. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Bait and switch gets pushback 2020-forward in the Democratic Party.

As it should - when right-wing austerity sadists puff out their wee little cheeks in a cratered economy (like the trumpers did during Covid). 

 

Snap out of it. 

 

I thought we were talking about the federal minimum wage.

[washparkhorn 9974]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I thought we were talking about the federal minimum wage.

C'mon man.

[bad_teammate 13561]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

The magic trick is winning enough seats to make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant.

 

Fine, but that doesn't deal with the "be patient, it's only been 1.5 months!!" issue.

Giving up on raising the minimum wage now doesn't improve our chances in 2022 Senate races.

[bad_teammate 13561]

12 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i think the sentiment is that the republicans were fine leaving a second stimulus alone entirely.  if they were still in charge, we certainly wouldn't have seen something this large.

I doubt seriously they would've done absolutely nothing had Trump won. Maybe not as generous as this, but the difference between the Biden and Trump stimulus would likely just be a few numbers and maybe some dates. Trump was, after all, talking about the need for checks ($2k, specifically). Not that his word is reliable, but it is indicative that he (and they) understood the need and demand.

But yeah, I hope someone can educate me regarding the progressivism of this bill.

[fattyflattie 4640]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

pr statehood.  why not done?

I watched a doc on PR’s drug issues last night.  What an epic welfare state we are about to adopt so one party can control everything indefinitely.  Will immediately make Mississippi look cosmopolitan. 

[TwiceHorn 32087]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I watched a doc on PR’s drug issues last night.  What an epic welfare state we are about to adopt so one party can control everything indefinitely.  Will immediately make Mississippi look cosmopolitan. 

Puerto Rico has a lot of problems.  They're already pretty much our problems.  And, they're about half Republicans in keeping with Latin voting preferences of late.

It's not really to try to let Democrats "control everything indefinitely," it's an attempt to introduce some balance, because currently Republicans have done a shitload of "governing" from minority electoral positions.

Edited March 8, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[washparkhorn 9974]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I watched a doc on PR’s drug issues last night.  What an epic welfare state we are about to adopt so one party can control everything indefinitely.  Will immediately make Mississippi look cosmopolitan. 

Name of the documentary?

Puerto Ricans are citizens of the United States already - just in case anyone is confused. They pay federal taxes. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, they're about half Republicans in keeping with Latin voting preferences of late.

Eh. I know you can tie some Cubans to R’s down and Fla, and who knows what happened in RGV this past cycle (you can’t take much from polls involving the shitstain, imo).   But you are talking about some seriously impoverished, help needing people.  Don’t think they gaf much about the 2nd or tax cuts.  Pretty sure they’ll be backing the party of social services, which they are in dire need of ALOT of them.  I could be wrong, absolutely wouldn’t be the first time. 
 

21 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Name of the documentary?

Don’t know. One of the Nat Geo drug shows. They come on all the time, I’ll jot it down if it comes on again this week. Wasn’t first time I’ve seen it. I know that because of one part, where they are trying to help this addict on the street, and he pulls his shirt up and his fucking guts are hanging out his ribs.    They have a bad Herion/coke/horse tranq problem.  And something like 25% of the drugs that pass thru there from Columbia stay, for a tiny population.  Was pretty damn sad.  But yeah, they aren’t doing to be a net gain wrt taxes.   
 

Also watched one on Atlanta and it’s MDMA explosion and on London (those fucking guys party holy shit).  I couldn’t sleep last night. 

[Born to Run 6601]

I watched a doc on PR’s drug issues last night.  What an epic welfare state we are about to adopt so one party can control everything indefinitely.  Will immediately make Mississippi look cosmopolitan. 

I need to watch that and I know dick about the issue.

However we are way over due to own our colonial to 1980s fuckery in this hemisphere and maybe atone for our sins. It would be be money well spent and in our selfesh best interest. But we are too stupid and divided for that sort of thing at this point as a second world country rounding third it's not happening. Maybe back in the 50s.


I do know we had our way with PR and bombed the fuck out of paradise.

Beach areas tend to have druggies and drunks. If your last name is Buffett you can make coin singing about it. But the reality is a bit sadder every where dowm there, again I don't know PR specifically, but post colonial poverty sucks the world round and a pints a pound.

[fattyflattie 4640]

8 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

I need to watch that and I know dick about the issue.

However we are way over due to own our colonial to 1980s fuckery in this hemisphere and maybe atone for our sins. It would be be money well spent and in our selfesh best interest. But we are too stupid and divided for that sort of thing at this point as a second world country rounding third it's not happening. Maybe back in the 50s.


I do know we had our way with PR and bombed the fuck out of paradise.

Beach areas tend to have druggies and drunks. If your last name is Buffett you can make coin singing about it. But the reality is a bit sadder every where dowm there, again I don't know PR specifically, but post colonial poverty sucks the world round and a pints a pound.

They didn't touch on it too much, but just a general lack of economy was a huge factor.  There was some manufacturing, but other than that...

I don't even know how you go about getting them on par with even the shittiest places on the continental US.  Schools, infrastructure, etc.  

[bluto 4999]

I need to watch that and I know dick about the issue.

However we are way over due to own our colonial to 1980s fuckery in this hemisphere and maybe atone for our sins. It would be be money well spent and in our selfesh best interest. But we are too stupid and divided for that sort of thing at this point as a second world country rounding third it's not happening. Maybe back in the 50s.


I do know we had our way with PR and bombed the fuck out of paradise.

Beach areas tend to have druggies and drunks. If your last name is Buffett you can make coin singing about it. But the reality is a bit sadder every where dowm there, again I don't know PR specifically, but post colonial poverty sucks the world round and a pints a pound.

US Navy test bombed the ever living shit out of Vieques (small PR island). Couple million pounds of explosives and tons of military byproduct. Only 40% of the surface area has been remediated, not including the subsurface and water. Nasty metals shit too, uranium and mercury. All the bombings done while half the island was inhabited. Crazy shit.

Went there on vacation 5 yrs ago, stunning secluded beaches and great ppl/trip overall. But I Can’t imagine going back with what the hurricane did to it as it was already very ‘rural’ for lack of a better term.

[gmr548 16702]

I watched a doc on PR’s drug issues last night.  What an epic welfare state we are about to adopt so one party can control everything indefinitely.  Will immediately make Mississippi look cosmopolitan. 

[Bruh Man 3160]

Nice little read on what exactly is in HR1 and its constitutionality. This is undoubtedly the most consequential piece of legislation currently in Congress. I'm convinced Biden could send $20k checks to every American, yet the Dems could still get gerrymandered/voter suppressioned out of the majority in both the House & Senate if HR1 is not passed immediately. Some of these reforms are going to take time to be implemented, if you wait until next year, it will be too late for the midterms. Gotta act fast.

 

[bad_teammate 13561]

I wonder what cute outfit Sinema is going to wear to vote to maintain the filibuster and kill HR1.

[bad_teammate 13561]

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I wonder what cute outfit Sinema is going to wear to vote to maintain the filibuster and kill HR1.

I cannot rag on her or Manchin when it comes to the filibuster, until Biden changes his stance. Why change your tune when the boss is on your side?

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bruh Man

[bad_teammate 13561]

11 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

I cannot rag on her or Manchin when it comes to the filibuster, until Biden changes his stance. Why change your tune when the boss is on your side?

I can and will rag on all of them. Scum. Garbage. Wastes.

[Bruh Man 3160]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I can and will rag on all of them. Scum. Garbage. Wastes.

My point is, it starts at the top. Sinema is a sociopath and Manchin has a crush on Susan Collins. But I believe both fall in line if Biden told them to. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Bruh Man said:

My point is, it starts at the top. Sinema is a sociopath and Manchin has a crush on Susan Collins. But I believe both fall in line if Biden told them to. 

Exactly, and at the end of the day it will be leadership that pays the biggest political price for inaction, not Manchin, Sinema, or obstructionist republicans. 

[bad_teammate 13561]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Exactly, and at the end of the day it will be leadership that pays the biggest political price for inaction, not Manchin, Sinema, or obstructionist republicans. 

Biggest political price, yes.

But the biggest price will actually be paid by the poor and minority populations. Not that Democrats care about that.

[Bruh Man 3160]

40 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Exactly, and at the end of the day it will be leadership that pays the biggest political price for inaction, not Manchin, Sinema, or obstructionist republicans. 

I'm not convinced all Dems enjoy being in the majority.

I'm also not convinced Biden totally grasps the threat Republicans on the state-level currently present to democracy. Maybe Clyburn can give him a nudge, he owes him.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bruh Man

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

I'm also not convinced Biden totally grasps the threat Republicans on the state-level currently present to democracy.

Sadly many people in power genuinely don’t care.  They think they will be fine regardless of what happens because the system was built by and for them, and they’re right, for the most part. 

[bad_teammate 13561]

38 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Maybe Clyburn can give him a nudge, he owes him.

Don't hold you breath about Clyburn even trying that hard.

He's already framing this as if Democratic politicians are going to be the central victim of this instead of the PROPER framing, which is that Manchin and Sinema are proponents of and enablers of white supremacy and that their victims are black voters. 

Failure to do whatever it takes, including reform/abolition of the filibuster, is the promotion of white supremacy, full stop.

[Bruh Man 3160]

27 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sadly many people in power genuinely don’t care.  They think they will be fine regardless of what happens because the system was built by and for them, and they’re right, for the most part. 

If he cares about his legacy then he should care. A stain on Obama's legacy was the fact that the party was hallowed out under his watch. Biden is essentially leading the Dems to slaughter not getting this bill passed by any means necessary. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Don't hold you breath about Clyburn even trying that hard.

He's already framing this as if Democratic politicians are going to be the central victim of this instead of the PROPER framing, which is that Manchin and Sinema are proponents of and enablers of white supremacy and that their victims are black voters. 

Failure to do whatever it takes, including reform/abolition of the filibuster, is the promotion of white supremacy, full stop.

I’m convinced Manchin isn’t wielding power to help himself or democrats.  He’s a strategic scapegoat to protect an exploitative and brutal status quo enabled by weak leadership and a complicit media establishment. He continues to go on TV and say things completely divorced from reality, reminds me of Biden tbh.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m convinced Manchin isn’t wielding power to help himself or democrats.  He’s a strategic scapegoat to protect an exploitative and brutal status quo enabled by weak leadership and a complicit media establishment. He continues to go on TV and say things completely divorced from reality, reminds me of Biden tbh.

Dude, I think the last 4+ years melted your brain. You should probably take a break for a bit

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Don't hold you breath about Clyburn even trying that hard.

He's already framing this as if Democratic politicians are going to be the central victim of this instead of the PROPER framing, which is that Manchin and Sinema are proponents of and enablers of white supremacy and that their victims are black voters. 

Failure to do whatever it takes, including reform/abolition of the filibuster, is the promotion of white supremacy, full stop.

 

"Not handing the Republicans two future senate seats on a silver platter is the promotion of white supremacy"

wut

[Js1 87214]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Dude, I think the last 4+ years melted your brain. You should probably take a break for a bit

 

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

 

"Not handing the Republicans two future senate seats on a silver platter is the promotion of white supremacy"

wut

Galaxy-level brain takes from Hugo and B_T.  Both seem like they'd be happier in the minority, just bitching.  

[wildcat09 29595]

18 hours ago, Js1 said:

It’s not that strange when you’d rather celebrate the losses than the wins. It kills them to admit it was a really transformative, progressive bill. It had its faults but no legislation is perfect.  Stimulus, cuts child poverty in half, puts something like $8000 in the pockets of a middle class family of 4, etc. 

It also shows we can get Manchin to vote for progressive legislation so long as we let him pull some dumb theatrics, and he's already demonstrated openness to filibuster reform. That alone is reason to be optimistic.