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Joe Biden 2021

tantric superman

By tantric superman
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ndawg said:

I can't agree with this. Republicans have already given themselves "literal carte blanche to do anything they want." There is absolutely no reason to be worried about moving too strong against the GOP. They won't "retaliate," and not because they will exercise restraint, but because they're so far past the point where they have any need to exercise restraint at all. At best, the Republicans might choose to respect a Democratic filibuster if they found the calculus favorable.

Have they split Wyoming into twelve states or something equally as insane?

That's what they're going to do next time they have a chance, and removing the filibuster gives them a chance much sooner. We're basically saying "we have one party that's insane and will do anything they can to grab power and oppress people", and at the same time we're making it easier for them to do those insane things in the future. 

Republicans will always beat Democrats at a game of brinksmanship because they are insane, cynical, and don't give a fuck. 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

Posted
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26 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

We're basically saying "we have one party that's insane and will do anything they can to grab power and oppress people", and at the same time we're making it easier for them to do those insane things in the future.

Right, because we're down to the wire. We have one chance to save the country. If the GOP regains power, we're done. The Democrats need to stop rationing their fuel (political power) and burn it all, hoping it's enough to break free from the event horizon. Not because that's a good strategy in general, but because it's what the circumstances call for. We need a hail mary or we're done.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46060

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Right, because we're down to the wire. We have one chance to save the country. If the GOP regains power, we're done. The Democrats need to stop rationing their fuel (political power) and burn it all, hoping it's enough to break free from the event horizon. Not because that's a good strategy in general, but because it's what the circumstances call for. We need a hail mary or we're done.

It's not even really a hail mary though.  We have the ball and could run it down their throats into the fucking end zone, but we are refusing to because of some misplaced idea of "decorum" that the Rs have proven they could give two fucks about.  

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Have they split Wyoming into twelve states or something equally as insane?

That's what they're going to do next time they have a chance, and removing the filibuster gives them a chance much sooner. We're basically saying "we have one party that's insane and will do anything they can to grab power and oppress people", and at the same time we're making it easier for them to do those insane things in the future. 

Republicans will always beat Democrats at a game of brinksmanship because they are insane, cynical, and don't give a fuck. 

Every person in Wyoming is now a state. 

Splitting states up is harder to do than adding new ones. 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

Posted
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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

It's not even really a hail mary though.  We have the ball and could run it down their throats into the fucking end zone, but we are refusing to because of some misplaced idea of "decorum" that the Rs have proven they could give two fucks about.  

That's a good point. I'd rather say that the Democrats need to get on the offensive and stay on the offensive until the GOP's power is reduced down to the level of its actual mindshare.

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17924

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Can’t believe people are complaining about not getting enough stuff passed. How are the Dems supposed to get around the Senate parliamentarian? It’s the single most powerful position in all of politics and their word is basically law. It’s like the first thing mentioned in the Constitution, the unabated power of the parliamentarian. 

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Dick Tremayne

Dick Tremayne 103

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Posted

It seems to me that the disconnect is between posters that are worried about what is best for citizens of this country and posters that are worried about what is best for the Democratic Party. As someone who is not a member of any political party, I'd like to see a lot more concern for our fellow citizens and no concern whatsoever given to what is best for any particular political party. From my perspective, this is the problem. 

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4668

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Dick Tremayne said:

It seems to me that the disconnect is between posters that are worried about what is best for citizens of this country and posters that are worried about what is best for the Democratic Party. As someone who is not a member of any political party, I'd like to see a lot more concern for our fellow citizens and no concern whatsoever given to what is best for any particular political party. From my perspective, this is the problem. 

During WWII, what was best for the world was the destruction of fascists.  The Republicans have gone so far off the deep end that what is best for the country is the utter decimation of the Republican Party. 

The calculus is different when one party doesn't seem to be salvagable.

Edited by tantric superman
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46060

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8 minutes ago, Dick Tremayne said:

It seems to me that the disconnect is between posters that are worried about what is best for citizens of this country and posters that are worried about what is best for the Democratic Party. As someone who is not a member of any political party, I'd like to see a lot more concern for our fellow citizens and no concern whatsoever given to what is best for any particular political party. From my perspective, this is the problem. 

What tantric said and also what is best for the country happens to align with the Dem party right now.  It hasn't always been this way, but it sure as shit is now.

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elfenix

elfenix 34657

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4 hours ago, BradInATX said:

 

The Republicans just had four years worth of opportunity to overturn the filibuster and didn't. 

"Why don't people think that this doomsday scenario that has literally never happened despite hundreds of opportunities is inevitable?!?! Idiots!!"

well, 2 of the last 4, because no point in overturning the filibuster when you couldn't get republican legislation through the house.

and nothing the republicans wanted to do in those two was stymied due to the filibuster.  skinny repeal failed to get 50 votes. 

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staboner

staboner 5066

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Dick Tremayne said:

It seems to me that the disconnect is between posters that are worried about what is best for citizens of this country and posters that are worried about what is best for the Democratic Party. As someone who is not a member of any political party, I'd like to see a lot more concern for our fellow citizens and no concern whatsoever given to what is best for any particular political party. From my perspective, this is the problem. 

haven't had a good LOL in some time. thanks. 

here's to you precious

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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7 minutes ago, elfenix said:

well, 2 of the last 4, because no point in overturning the filibuster when you couldn't get republican legislation through the house.

and nothing the republicans wanted to do in those two was stymied due to the filibuster.  skinny repeal failed to get 50 votes. 

 

You don't think the Republicans would have passed a shit ton more legislation than they did over the past four years had they only needed 50 votes? For every bill that gets to vote there are hundreds that don't because they already know they don't have 60 to pass it.

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Dick Tremayne

Dick Tremayne 103

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

During WWII, what was best for the world was the destruction of fascists.  The Republicans have gone so far off the deep end that what is best for the country is the utter decimation of the Republican Party. 

The calculus is different when one party doesn't seem to be salvagable.

 

17 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What tantric said and also what is best for the country happens to align with the Dem party right now.  It hasn't always been this way, but it sure as shit is now.

I certainly don't disagree with anything you guys say about the Republican Party. Personally I take issue with the idea that the Democratic Party has the best interest of the majority of Americans as part of their decision making, but understand the argument. I just find myself frustrated with all of the "inside baseball" talk and the smugness of folks telling us that we just don't understand the way things work. It often makes me think of this quote from No Country For Old Men, "If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?" 

Edited by Dick Tremayne
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elfenix

elfenix 34657

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2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

You don't think the Republicans would have passed a shit ton more legislation than they did over the past four years had they only needed 50 votes? For every bill that gets to vote there are hundreds that don't because they already know they don't have 60 to pass it.

they got tax cuts.  they got judges.  they got regulatory malfeasance.  what more could they want?  the incarcerate all the gays act?

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29555

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37 minutes ago, elfenix said:

they got tax cuts.  they got judges.  they got regulatory malfeasance.  what more could they want?  the incarcerate all the gays act?

Yeah, literally the only thing they wanted and didn't get was Obamacare repeal, which they tried to pass through reconciliation and didn't need to worry about the filibuster. The GOP isn't interested in passing legislation that can't pass through reconciliation and the moment they change their mind about that and control the senate they'll repeal the filibuster if it hasn't already been done.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted

Why not do this:

Dems pass a law that "suspends" the filibuster until January 6th, 2024. On January 7th, 2024 the filibuster resumes. This hedges the bet against Republicans taking back office/power.

Or do it until the end of mid terms 2022, whatever is politically expedient and better?

Why can't you do this?

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4668

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1 hour ago, Dick Tremayne said:

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I have no idea what was funny about my post.

You're doing a "both sides".  Although the majority of folks on this board hate the Republicans, I think the majority also aren't uniformly knee jerk dem.  I'm relatively low key about my anti-progressivism.  Half the people on this board are very anti-establishment Dem.   They just understand that establishment Dem>>>>>>Republican.

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Dick Tremayne

Dick Tremayne 103

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4 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

You're doing a "both sides".  Although the majority of folks on this board hate the Republicans, I think the majority also aren't uniformly knee jerk dem.  I'm relatively low key about my anti-progressivism.  Half the people on this board are very anti-establishment Dem.   They just understand that establishment Dem>>>>>>Republican.

It wasn’t my intention to do a both sides and I completely agree that the dems are miles ahead of the Republicans. I’m a leftist independent and shouldn’t have tried to jump into the middle of a long discussion. While my beliefs are different than most here, I do really enjoy lurking here. I learn a lot. I sincerely appreciate the explanation and will go back to lurking now.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
56 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Joe Biden could forget his name and piss his pants and he'd still be preferable to any Republican.

Shiiit. He probably accomplishes that before lunch each day. 
 

But seriously, how long are posters here giving Biden in the top spot? One year? Two?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

You don't think the Republicans would have passed a shit ton more legislation than they did over the past four years had they only needed 50 votes?

No. The passion of Republicans is not getting bold legislative agendas passed, it's locking government into inaction and then letting it die by attrition.

2 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Half the people on this board are very anti-establishment Dem.   They just understand that establishment Dem>>>>>>Republican.

And many of us understand that reducing everything to Republican v Democrat is what got us here in the first place, so see no need to constantly reinforce the obvious idea that Republicans are worse.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

The "kamala is president" trope is rather unique to right wing collective hive mind.  Go figure.

Hive mind? I deal with people with different levels of dementia all the time. This guy is slowed mentally. I’ll bet anybody that wants the action, that Joe will not be President on Jan 19,2025.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

The "kamala is president" trope is rather unique to right wing collective hive mind.  Go figure.

I don’t think she’s President.
 

I do think her ascension in the next 3 years is a foregone conclusion.  

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Js1

Js1 86923

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

The "kamala is president" trope is rather unique to right wing collective hive mind.  Go figure.

You’re a couple weeks behind. Newsmax says Susan Rice is the shadow president. 

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berlinerbaer

berlinerbaer 692

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4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, literally the only thing they wanted and didn't get was Obamacare repeal, which they tried to pass through reconciliation and didn't need to worry about the filibuster. The GOP isn't interested in passing legislation that can't pass through reconciliation and the moment they change their mind about that and control the senate they'll repeal the filibuster if it hasn't already been done.

This, except one minor correction. They knew they never had the votes to repeal Obamacare. They backed themselves into a corner after their shitty tantrums the previous six years and had to pretend to their base they really wanted it. John Boener called this one back in February of 2017 almost exactly as it happened.

The ONLY thing the GOP wanted to do during the Trump years was give their donors a tax cut. That, and confirm judges.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106610

Posted
Posted
Everyone knows the United States government is run by black women.

Well, they do check the most important boxes. Repubs are most comfortable demonizing someone who appeals to both their misogynistic AND racist heart. It just makes them comfortable, like a warm blanket.

So it’s natural that they pivot from attacking an old white dude (they just can’t get their enthusiasm up for that, it just doesn’t feel right) to creating a much better target, one that works for them: black women. JACKPOT.
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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Well, they do check the most important boxes. Repubs are most comfortable demonizing someone who appeals to both their misogynistic AND racist heart. It just makes them comfortable, like a warm blanket.

So it’s natural that they pivot from attacking an old white dude (they just can’t get their enthusiasm up for that, it just doesn’t feel right) to creating a much better target, one that works for them: black women. JACKPOT.

 

39 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Everyone knows the United States government is run by black women.

So how long do you think Joe is President?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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9 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

This, except one minor correction. They knew they never had the votes to repeal Obamacare. They backed themselves into a corner after their shitty tantrums the previous six years and had to pretend to their base they really wanted it. John Boener called this one back in February of 2017 almost exactly as it happened.

The ONLY thing the GOP wanted to do during the Trump years was give their donors a tax cut. That, and confirm judges.

Yes.

To understand the GOP, there's a great quote from Grover Norquist: "I'm not in favor of abolishing the government. I just want to shrink it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."

What they've done to the USPS is a perfect example. No big legislative moves, just some rule changes (USPS must pre-fund all retirement for decades ahead) to make it go bankrupt and then appoint cronies like DeJoy to run its operations into the ground. People lose trust in the post office, start to hate it, and then its destruction becomes natural.

They don't need Congress to do this stuff, all they need is a little power and a neutered opposition.

HR1 is, to me, the litmus test. The COVID Relief bill is a layup. It's built for reconciliation and all they had to do was massage numbers around to make their caucus happy with it. HR1 is the test.

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