Joe Biden 2021

[Biff Tannen 45492]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There should have been multiple public hearings already

I read this as hangings and nodded in agreement.

[wildcat09 29234]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I read this as hangings and nodded in agreement.

Same

[SydneyCarton 47872]

 

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I want the party and Joe Biden to speak in a unified voice about the threat the Republican party poses to American democracy. A lot have come around, but it seems like it's going to be impossible to get everyone on the same page (Manchin, SInema, Coons especially) and if there's still "moderate" Dems pretending that bipartisanship is possible we're fucked.

Sure. Ok. I'd love for us to have a unified message like the republicans do, which Hugo addressed. Sure. But this is what constitutes hard ball? Harder talking and finger wagging, which won't reach the people already glued to Fox News?  I'm not trying to be a dick, but this doesn't seem like there's a lot of bullets left being unfired in the chamber here. 

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

See how republicans treat democrats.  Democrats need to do that, except democrats don’t need to lie, the truth is damning enough.  

There should have been multiple public hearings already on the insurrection but Dems tried to do some bipartisan investigation with the insurgent party.  That is the opposite of taking the gloves off.  
 

Democrats can’t bring themselves to fight back against political warfare because they think it will be perceive as being “too divisive”, it’s flawed logic that’s been their demise for a long time. 

While you're not wrong, this doesn't seem like "hardball." Any more investigating and shit will just be met with impeachment witch hunt turnaround and dismissed by any voice not already paying attention to CNN and MSN. The best answer I've heard you say so far is fucking buy Manchin, literally, and that seems kind of absurd to execute as well. So I'm not really seeing "hardball" just really justifiable frustration as to where we are...

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

Sure. Ok. I'd love for us to have a unified message like the republicans do, which Hugo addressed. Sure. But this is what constitutes hard ball? Harder talking and finger wagging, which won't reach the people already glued to Fox News?  I'm not trying to be a dick, but this doesn't seem like there's a lot of bullets left being unfired in the chamber here. 

While you're not wrong, this doesn't seem like "hardball." Any more investigating and shit will just be met with impeachment witch hunt turnaround and dismissed by any voice not already paying attention to CNN and MSN. The best answer I've heard you say so far is fucking buy Manchin, literally, and that seems kind of absurd to execute as well. So I'm not really seeing "hardball" just really justifiable frustration as to where we are...

Koch already bought Manchin. That was even released in the Heritage Foundation audio where they were joking about it. He's been bought by Koch for a long time.

 

Even Casler jokes about it on his twitter feed: The best real estate the Kochs ever bought was their Manchin in West Virginia.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

15 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

While you're not wrong, this doesn't seem like "hardball." Any more investigating and shit will just be met with impeachment witch hunt turnaround and dismissed by any voice not already paying attention to CNN and MSN. The best answer I've heard you say so far is fucking buy Manchin, literally, and that seems kind of absurd to execute as well. So I'm not really seeing "hardball" just really justifiable frustration as to where we are...

A problem is many democrats in leadership (Pelosi, Biden, Schumer) honestly believe the Republican Party is worth preserving, even after they tried to kill them.  The republicans have no such view of the democratic party. The democrats can’t even bring themselves to publicly call the Republicans fascists, while republicans will fear monger socialism/communism on democrats all day.  There are two sets of rules except democrats are making a choice to play by the ones that put them at a disadvantage.  Taking the gloves off would be them to stop doing that. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[washparkhorn 9935]

She has a point . . . 

[tantric superman 4667]

Unless you are toothless inbred in West Virginia, you aren't going to be able to do jack shit about Joe Manchin.

If you live in Texas, do what you can to vote these assholes out. 

https://www.texasgop.org/leadership-directory/texas-house-of-representatives/

https://www.texasgop.org/leadership-directory/texas-state-senate/

https://www.texasgop.org/leadership-directory/united-states-congress/

https://www.texasgop.org/leadership-directory/united-states-senate/

You have 48-49 people in the Senate who are willing to do what you want.  That's it.  Get the fuck over it.  

Who is the Biden Justice Department fucking over today?  I don't know and I wish I did. 

[SydneyCarton 47872]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

A problem is many democrats in leadership (Pelosi, Biden, Schumer) honestly believe the Republican Party is worth preserving, even after they tried to kill them.  The republicans have no such view of the democratic party. The democrats can’t even bring themselves to publicly call the Republicans fascists, while republicans will fear monger socialism/communism on democrats all day.  There are two sets of rules except democrats are making a choice to play by the ones that put them at a disadvantage.  Taking the gloves off would be them to stop doing that. 

So call them fascists. That’s the big idea? I mean I’m all for it but none of this is any kind of tactic that will bring about actual change or faults which was the point, no?

[washparkhorn 9935]

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

54 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I still haven't seen anyone definitively give a set of actions Biden and Democrats could engage in that would constitute "taking the gloves off." Ok, so what does real hardball look like, exactly? I know Democrats are pussies, but specifically, what can really be done here? Other than primary them, which I'm all for when the time comes, someone help me out. I'd love to see some real examples. 

I made a big list that scares centrists. It involves human beings encouraging each other to touch grass and look at sunlight en masse to loudly and forcefully demand full and equal rights for black people. That's from the People's side.

And as I said to rolled eyes incessantly during the primary: We need a president who will utilize the power of the bully pulpit. We need a president who will roll into an intransigent Senator's home state and hold rallies demanding the legislation that Senator is blocking. Win or lose, we need leadership that makes an effort and, at the very least, inspires others to fight.

It doesn't get a lot more hardball than your own political leadership flying to your town to tell your constituents that you're a piece of shit (directly or indirectly).

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

you and Hugo need to fuck already, jesus y'all are insufferable. now that you don't have former guy to rail on you really have no compass

Yes, please, by all means ignore all messages and substance in order to focus on personal allegiances/grievances this is very smart to do.

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

Wait for what? I want to win an election, which usually means ignoring the things you say should be done.

You say this as if the Democratic establishment is good at winning elections.

Centrist punditbrains are hilarious.

[GW Hayduke 1952]

8 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

 

Trump won WV by 39 points.  This shot isn’t complicated

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

You are triggered when folks point out excessive cancel culture is dumb?  You think the Dems should embrace cancel culture and run with it at the top of the platform?

I am triggered by Democratic leadership adopting the Republican lie that "cancel culture" is even a thing that exists. It is a right-wing cultural warfare meme.

Edited June 9, 2021 by bad_teammate

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Trump won WV by 39 points.  This shot isn’t complicated

Yea these fuckbois will keep fucking that chicken until the day this board gets lawsuit-ed into a scat porn sight (again). 

No other dem had a snowballs chance in hell, period. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

3 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Yea these fuckbois will keep fucking that chicken until the day this board gets lawsuit-ed into a scat porn sight (again). 

No other dem had a snowballs chance in hell, period. 

It appears you were trying to communicate something. TLDR version?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

14 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So call them fascists. That’s the big idea? I mean I’m all for it but none of this is any kind of tactic that will bring about actual change or faults which was the point, no?

It’s insane, but Trump had a better intuitive understanding of power dynamics in his own party than what we’re seeing from democrats right now.  He was an idiot criminal but at least he was always visibly fighting and he kept his supporters engaged and rallied to his cause. The democrats do not need a Trump but they could stop playing this bullshit game that anyone with a memory can see through.  

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

It appears you were trying to communicate something. TLDR version?

We've discussed this 50x already. The talk of primarying or bullying Manchin to do something is just silly and has no basis in reality. 

He knows exactly what he's doing, and it's whatever he thinks will keep him in office. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I am triggered by Democratic leadership adopting the Republican lie that "cancel culture" is even a thing that exists. It is a right-wing cultural warfare meme.

Yep - it is the old "but I don't wanna be politically correct" snowfakedness. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

Just now, totallynotabuttpirate said:

We've discussed this 50x already. The talk of primarying or bullying Manchin to do something is just silly and has no basis in reality. 

He knows exactly what he's doing, and it's whatever he thinks will keep him in office. 

I gathered that, but what is the part about "the board - scat sited to oblivion" riff?

[jimmyjazz 45554]

9 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I gathered that, but what is the part about "the board - scat sited to oblivion" riff?

shaggybevo?

[washparkhorn 9935]

New Democratic focus groups find many voters aren't sure what the party stands for -

NBC News:  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/new-democratic-focus-groups-find-many-voters-aren-t-sure-n1269955

. . . "Voters are not hearing enough about what Democrats have accomplished, what they are fighting to accomplish, and how they are standing up for voters’ values and priorities," read a Lake Research strategy memo by Celinda Lake, David Mermin and Emily Garner, summing up their findings. 

. . . "They elect us and they expect us to get something done. And if we don't, it happens at our peril," said Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Wis., a co-chair of the Progressive Caucus PAC. "If they can't define us well because of what we haven't gotten done, then we're even more in peril."

Pocan, who sat through some of the focus group discussions, said voters wanted the two parties to get along and find common ground — with a caveat.

"They did say they want us to work together, but they instantly moved on to, 'But you got to get things done,'" he said. "They're not going to give us a lot of latitude to say we couldn't get it done because of the Republicans, especially when Democrats are officially in charge of everything."

The memo describing the findings (source material) - https://www.scribd.com/document/511052508/Lake-Research-memo

 

[SydneyCarton 47872]

So hardball is yell louder, be meaner, and generally act more lime the Republican Party. Got it. Not saying I’m against it, but it sounds like we’re fucked. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So hardball is yell louder, be meaner, and generally act more lime the Republican Party. Got it. Not saying I’m against it, but it sounds like we’re fucked. 

Yeah . . . no one is saying that, but carry on, if you wanna.

 

[Biff Tannen 45492]

33 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

New Democratic focus groups find many voters aren't sure what the party stands for -

NBC News:  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/new-democratic-focus-groups-find-many-voters-aren-t-sure-n1269955

. . . "Voters are not hearing enough about what Democrats have accomplished, what they are fighting to accomplish, and how they are standing up for voters’ values and priorities," read a Lake Research strategy memo by Celinda Lake, David Mermin and Emily Garner, summing up their findings. 

. . . "They elect us and they expect us to get something done. And if we don't, it happens at our peril," said Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Wis., a co-chair of the Progressive Caucus PAC. "If they can't define us well because of what we haven't gotten done, then we're even more in peril."

Pocan, who sat through some of the focus group discussions, said voters wanted the two parties to get along and find common ground — with a caveat.

"They did say they want us to work together, but they instantly moved on to, 'But you got to get things done,'" he said. "They're not going to give us a lot of latitude to say we couldn't get it done because of the Republicans, especially when Democrats are officially in charge of everything."

The memo describing the findings (source material) - https://www.scribd.com/document/511052508/Lake-Research-memo

 

I get it, but I would hope that “not fascists” would be good enough. 

[RomaVicta 29781]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I still haven't seen anyone definitively give a set of actions Biden and Democrats could engage in that would constitute "taking the gloves off." Ok, so what does real hardball look like, exactly? I know Democrats are pussies, but specifically, what can really be done here? Other than primary them, which I'm all for when the time comes, someone help me out. I'd love to see some real examples. 

Sadly, it sounds the same way our nation does when we discuss foreign policies. "We ought to just kick their ass." There is no sense of maneuver or strategy; there is only the right now. 

Pelosi was criticized by many here for capitulating on many issues having to do with the Jan. 6 Hearings. She's weak, we heard. I didn't and don't think so. Here's my reasoning:

1. The Senate is going to kill the bill no matter what.

2. Killing the investigation is a poison pill.

3. To administer the poison pill, some form of the bill must go to the Senate.

4 The main gain for the Dems (and the country in this case) is to force the GOPs led by Mitchell to keep obstructing legislation that is obviously sensible and non-partisan.

5. The bill leaves the House, the Senate GOPs kill it, at least the Dems get a PR victory. They got something from a failed bill.

Many observers got stuck in this process decrying Pelosi's concessions. I think she knew what she was doing. I may be wrong, but I'm mainly just trying to illustrate how short-sighted we often are when viewing confrontation. It's all about the skirmish to us as we lose track of the course of the war.

The Dems speaking with a unified voice would be a fine thing. My beloved insists that what is needed is a curated assembly of the deceit and bad behavior of the GOPs and Trump so people will understand. I think it's a dead letter. 

The information is out there. It's everywhere. I don't think anyone doubts the resolve of the Dems in the face of the traitors. 

Rational approaches fail in the face of irrational, delusional opposition. 

It may come down to a real fight. I don't want to waste time flicking dingleberries at the traitors in the meantime. Exercise circumspection in strategizing and judging strategy. And keep your powder dry.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

21 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So hardball is yell louder, be meaner, and generally act more lime the Republican Party. Got it. Not saying I’m against it, but it sounds like we’re fucked. 

Look man, there is a reason this is funny 

 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

I gathered that, but what is the part about "the board - scat sited to oblivion" riff?

[SydneyCarton 47872]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Look man, there is a reason this is funny 

 

Sure man. You can say that. But at the end of of the day, you’ve had an opportunity to be specific in your criticism of what could be done better to achieve results and you obfuscate and can’t specify Jack Shit. Your main critique is that Biden isn’t displaying the bitchiness you’d prefer. Well ok I guess. But until someone illustrates more concrete ways to hold feet to the fire and change minds or whip his big tent coalition into a progressive minded monolith, this is all just hand wringing cuntery as far as I can tell. Which is fine I feel pretty cuntish these days too. But I do realize it serves no purpose other than to make me feel better for about 8 minutes until I refresh Cloak Room. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

So hardball is yell louder, be meaner, and generally act more lime the Republican Party.

Your analysis of what is wrong with the GOP and its base is pretty terrible.

Civility politics are a fucking menace.

All liberals and centrists should be required to read Letters from a Birmingham Jail every week, because they seem completely incapable of learning any lessons at all.

This forum's consensus opposition to mass action is equal parts predictable and depressing.

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I get it, but I would hope that “not fascists” would be good enough. 

Yeah well some people have real-world problems that active governance could solve so this shit is more than civility/aesthetics.

[SydneyCarton 47872]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Your analysis of what is wrong with the GOP and its base is pretty terrible.

Civility politics are a fucking menace.

All liberals and centrists should be required to read Letters from a Birmingham Jail every week, because they seem completely incapable of learning any lessons at all.

This forum's consensus opposition to mass action is equal parts predictable and depressing.

Yeah well some people have real-world problems that active governance could solve so this shit is more than civility/aesthetics.

I’ve offered no analysis of what is wrong with the GOP. At All. I haven’t even attempted. It’s toO legion to even address. So fuck off and try again. But I notice yet again that you’ve offered up no real strategic suggestions other than tell louder and be more like the GOP. Which I’m actually fine with, I just realize it also won’t actually effectively change a damn thing .

[StassneyHorn 6538]

It’s clear the Democrats are too smart and too educated to do anything that doesn’t require a study/commission to be done. Act fast, be blunt,make mistakes at full speed, and offer no details.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I’ve offered no analysis of what is wrong with the GOP. At All.

You said "generally act more lime the Republican Party" as a negative. It's hard enough to have these conversations without people being actively dishonest.

Quote

But I notice yet again that you’ve offered up no real strategic suggestions other than tell louder and be more like the GOP.

Mass public action (demonstrations, protests, boycotts, etc...) is strategy, by definition. You may not like it. You may think it's crass and uncouth, but it is strategy.

I think what the centrists and liberals in this thread are doing right now is lashing out because they have nothing to offer and are just kind of suffering a generalized anxiety.  I can think of no other reason why a call to support mass direct action would be met with such uniform hostility. It makes no sense.

[Biff Tannen 45492]

From what I can see, it’s far too difficult to prosecute traitors that literally fomented a FUCKING COUP ATTEMPT on our government. And I don’t mean the actual people that stormed the Capitol. The people in the government that should be held accountable. I may not have the answers as to how to fix that, but a) that’s not my job and b) Rs just broke all the rules, why the fuck can’t Dems do the same if it stops this shit from happening again?

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I get it, but I would hope that “not fascists” would be good enough. 

Not me.  Not near enough and frankly, I'm not sure how anyone gets any satisfaction for such useless drivel.

a) Here is what we did.

b) Here is why we did it.

c) We're on to the next issue.  Next election cycle will put it all together so you can score. 

Instead, all we get is Dems on twitter whining about voting rights, whining about trans issues, whining about no Jan. 6 commission.  

It's all the equivalent of Trump tweeting "DO SOMETHING" except its not funny, it's just a waste of effort.

 

[tantric superman 4667]

9 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

From what I can see, it’s far too difficult to prosecute traitors that literally fomented a FUCKING COUP ATTEMPT on our government. And I don’t mean the actual people that stormed the Capitol. The people in the government that should be held accountable. I may not have the answers as to how to fix that, but a) that’s not my job and b) Rs just broke all the rules, why the fuck can’t Dems do the same if it stops this shit from happening again?

Maybe Merrick Garland kind of sucks.

[Biff Tannen 45492]

10 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Instead, all we get is Dems on twitter whining about voting rights, whining about trans issues, whining about no Jan. 6 commission.  

[tantric superman 4667]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There should have been multiple public hearings already on the insurrection but Dems tried to do some bipartisan investigation with the insurgent party.  That is the opposite of taking the gloves off.  
 

Democrats can’t bring themselves to fight back against political warfare because they think it will be perceive as being “too divisive”, it’s flawed logic that’s been their demise for a long time. 

These are broad sentiments, and Dems need to focus.  They need to pick their battles.  They have only 49 senate votes.  Dems should be focused on four issues.

1) insurrection.  Pick the battle.  It's not going to be bipartisan.  It should be through Justice Department prosecutions and executive branch investigations.

2) voting issues.  It's not going to be bipartisan.  It should be fought through the Justice Department and through the Courts and through grassroots and voter registration and get out the vote at the local level.

3) Climate change.  It might be a tad bipartisan, maybe just a bit.  Get market based policies in place.  Use executive orders if you can.

4) Worker rights.  It's not going to be bipartisan.  Put aggressive people in Executive offices, put some structure into government contracting, and politically make it hard for Republicans in red states to vote against workers.  They are posturing as populists now, so use that. 

Start working FOR you constituents and do it so well that the Trump constinuency has no where to grow.  And stop wasting time playing on their turf (cancel culture).  It's a waste of time. 

[tantric superman 4667]

10 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I had no idea at the time how badly electing a black man had broken their brains.

I had no idea how badly the Dems had failed under Obama's stewardship.

[tantric superman 4667]

15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Garland in strategy meetings...

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I had no idea how badly the Dems had failed under Obama's stewardship.

The numbers behind this are horrifying.

Local and state parties just died. Which has led to nationwide voter disenfranchisement.

[softlynow 1783]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

You say this as if the Democratic establishment is good at winning elections.

Centrist punditbrains are hilarious.

'92, '96, '08, '12, '20. Since Clinton took the party centrist they're 5-3 in Presidential races. This is not the liberal country it was from '32 to '76.

You needn't worry that we don't understand you. We get it. You live in a fantasyland where the smart political play coming out of a global pandemic is to re-gridlock the economy with strikes and protests that become riots.

[Satchel 6908]

3 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Trump won WV by 39 points.  This shot isn’t complicated

And poor West Virginians overwhelmingly voted for him even if the free health clinic truck didn’t make it to their trailer park. Joe Manchin wants to keep his people poor and happy.

[bad_teammate 13132]

6 minutes ago, softlynow said:

'92, '96, '08, '12, '20.

It's extremely telling that I say "elections" and your mind is locked on the presidential election alone. Really a powerful indicator of centrist/liberal politics right now.

Quote

You live in a fantasyland where the smart political play coming out of a global pandemic is to re-gridlock the economy with strikes and protests that become riots.

Do you use the Republican framing of these issues because you're gullible or because you're just a Republican? It's important to know why.

[edit]

This is unfair of me since this piece I'm quoting is basically copy/pasted from 1950s Democrats reacting to the black Civil Rights movement if you take out the part about the global pandemic.

Edited June 10, 2021 by bad_teammate

[Satchel 6908]

Sure, I know this is not quite like Trump pushing past the PM of Montenegro in order to make an impression, but it’s something:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. will buy 500 million more doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine to share through the global COVAX alliance for donation to 92 lower income countries and the African Union over the next year, a person familiar with the matter said Wednesday

President Joe Biden was set to make the announcement Thursday in a speech before the start of the Group of Seven summit. Two hundred million doses — enough to fully protect 100 million people — would be shared this year, with the balance to be donated in the first half of 2022, the person said.

“We have to end COVID-19 not just at home — which we’re doing — but everywhere,” Biden said Wednesday in a speech to the U.S. military at Royal Air Force Mildenhall, the first stop of an eight-day, three-country foreign trip.

National security adviser Jake Sullivan told reporters Wednesday that Biden was committed to sharing vaccines because it was in the public health and strategic interests of the U.S. As Biden embarks on his first foreign trip, he is aiming to show “that democracies are the countries that can best deliver solutions for people everywhere,” Sullivan said

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-coronavirus-pandemic-g-7-summit-health-government-and-politics-7009b0d0e8df4897d1827909611c2155

Edited June 10, 2021 by Satchel

[softlynow 1783]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's extremely telling that I say "elections" and your mind is locked on the presidential election alone. Really a powerful indicator of centrist/liberal politics right now.

This is still the Biden thread, right? Since this has veered off on a Senate tangent, it's important to note that, unless the Dem party wants to go back to being a racist Dixiecrat party, many states are simply only winnable by the guys like the one you want to hardball into fucking himself out of a job. Politics is hard. I get that you don't have the ability to understand that. No need to keep reaffirming it.

Quote

Do you use the Republican framing of these issues because you're gullible or because you're just a Republican? It's important to know why.

It's not Republican framing to acknowledge that, without the political means or will to take care of the working class, shelter in place and distancing orders affect the one-paycheck-from-homelessness cohort dramatically more than someone that can't see past his own privilege. You want those same people to take to the streets for you and "express their power," when most folks just want to get back to work, go to a game or a concert, etc.

And again, you're advocating an inorganic call to arms. That shit just does not work.

[David Dennison 18655]

Sounds like progressives need to get better at beating establishment Democrats.

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Since this has veered off on a Senate tangent, it's important to note that, unless the Dem party wants to go back to being a racist Dixiecrat party, many states are simply only winnable by the guys like the one you want to hardball into fucking himself out of a job. Politics is hard. I get that you don't have the ability to understand that. No need to keep reaffirming it.

Again... the Democrats are tied in the Senate and are likely to lose the House to a party with much-more-unpopular ideas and leaders. This is not a party that does a good job of gaining, holding, and using power.

There are 49 states other than WV.

Quote

It's not Republican framing to acknowledge that, without the political means or will to take care of the working class, shelter in place and distancing orders affect the one-paycheck-from-homelessness cohort dramatically more than someone that can't see past his own privilege.

You said "re-gridlock the economy". You've changed to this because you realize you were spouting a right-wing argument against civil-rights-era economic protest. So that's progress, I suppose.

Quote

You want those same people to take to the streets for you and "express their power," when most folks just want to get back to work, go to a game or a concert, etc.

No one needs to take to the streets for me. I'm great.

Am I saying no one should go to work or to a game or concert? What the fuck are you talking about?

It would be helpful if you guys articulated whatever subtext you're reading into what I'm saying. Because you're all boxing these phantoms.

Quote

And again, you're advocating an inorganic call to arms. That shit just does not work.

Ah, so when I say we need protest movements you guys see guns and violence and riots? I'm secretly using coded language to call for mass violence; is that it? That's an extremely reactionary/right-wing view of mass movements. That is right-wing framing.

Just now, David Dennison said:

Sounds like progressives need to get better at beating establishment Democrats.

Yeah, sure.

[tantric superman 4667]

Progressives and moderates SHOULD be in lockstep on being unmistakably and aggressively against insurgency and vote suppression.

They also SHOULD come together on a solid number of economic issues, where moderates just have to quit being pussies.

I'd expect them to continue to push back on each other on many economic issues but I'm fine with that tension.

In other words, while there can be little to no bipartisanship in this environment, there should be lots of work being done on "intrapartisanship" amongst non-Republicans.  Moderates need to give when giving is easy -- i.e., anything that doesn't harm the ability of markets to further economic efficiency and progress.  There is a lot of room to work in that space.

Edited June 10, 2021 by tantric superman

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7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Again... the Democrats are tied in the Senate and are likely to lose the House to a party with much-more-unpopular ideas and leaders. This is not a party that does a good job of gaining, holding, and using power.

There are 49 states other than WV.

You said "re-gridlock the economy". You've changed to this because you realize you were spouting a right-wing argument against civil-rights-era economic protest. So that's progress, I suppose.

No one needs to take to the streets for me. I'm great.

Am I saying no one should go to work or to a game or concert? What the fuck are you talking about?

It would be helpful if you guys articulated whatever subtext you're reading into what I'm saying. Because you're all boxing these phantoms.

Ah, so when I say we need protest movements you guys see guns and violence and riots? I'm secretly using coded language to call for mass violence; is that it? That's an extremely reactionary/right-wing view of mass movements. That is right-wing framing.

You're boring me now. I deal with clients who have a warped view of reality on a daily basis. There's only so much of that I need to experience in a day.

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1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

Progressives and moderates SHOULD be in lockstep on being unmistakably and aggressively against insurgency and vote suppression.

They also SHOULD come together on a solid number of economic issues, where moderates just have to quit being pussies.

I'd expect the to continue to push back on each other on many economic issues but I'm fine with that tension.

In other words, while there can be little to no bipartisanship in this environment, there should be lots of work being done on "intrapartisanship" amongst non-Republicans.  Moderates need to give when giving is easy -- i.e., anything that doesn't harm the ability of markets to further economic efficiency and progress.  There is a lot of room to work there.

 

 

Dems simply need to get bills to the floor that Manchin and Sinema have to vote for and build a record of accomplishment to run on in '22 along with making the mid-terms a referendum on the GOP doubling down on insurrectionism and obstruction.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

This thread has been fantastic today. Thanks to all who have contributed and keep it going.