Joe Biden 2021

[Anastasis 23395]

35 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

There is a difference between Trump clearing the way for way for NS2 and Biden clearing the way for NS2. 

Context Matters. You're smart enough to know this, but as you put it, "People will believe just about any nonsense given certain predisposing factors."

If you like, I can explain the difference. 

Yes. Please detail the differences between the trump administrations position re NS2 and Biden’s accommodation. Work in pee pee tape delusions to be completely contextual. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23395]

Try harder to pay attention guys. 

Political aspectsEdit

In January 2018, United States Secretary of StateRex Tillerson said that the U.S. and Poland oppose the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. They see it as undermining Europe's energy security and stability.[167] The Nord Stream 2 pipeline was also opposed by former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, former U.S. President Donald Trump, the European Council President Donald Tusk and British foreign minister Boris Johnson.[168][169] The president of the European Council Donald Tusk has said that Nord Stream 2 is not in the EU's interests.[170] Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán have questioned the different treatment of Nord Stream 2 and South Stream projects.[170][171] Some claim that the project violates the long-term declared strategy of the EU to diversify its gas supplies.[172] A letter, signed by the leaders of nine EU countries, was sent to the EC in March 2016, warning that the Nord Stream 2 project contradicts the European energy policy requirements that suppliers to the EU should not control the energy transmission assets, and that access to the energy infrastructure must be secured for non-consortium companies.[173][174] A letter by American lawmakers John McCain and Marco Rubioto the EU also criticized the project in July 2016.[175]Isabelle Kocher, chief executive officer of Engie, criticised American sanctions targeting the projects, and said they were an attempt to promote American gas in Europe.[176]

German Chancellor Angela Merkelwith Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi, Russia, 18 May 2018

In June 2017, Germany and Austria criticized the United States Senate over new sanctions against Russia that target the planned Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia to Germany,[177][178] stating that the United States was threatening Europe's energy supplies.[179] In a joint statement Austria's Chancellor Christian Kern and Germany's Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said that "Europe's energy supply is a matter for Europe, and not for the United States of America."[180] They also said: "To threaten companies from Germany, Austria and other European states with penalties on the U.S. market if they participate in natural gas projects such as Nord Stream 2 with Russia or finance them introduces a completely new and very negative quality into European-American relations."[181]

On January 1, 2021, an annual defense policy bill passed by the U.S. Congress included sanctions for companies who worked on or insured the pipeline. On January 26, the White House said that newly sworn-in President Joe Biden "continues to believe that Nord Stream 2 is a bad deal for Europe" and that his administration "will be reviewing" the new sanctions. (Biden had previously opposed the pipeline as Vice President.) According to congressional aides cited in a February report by NBC News, the sanctions enjoy "strong bipartisan support" on Capitol Hill.[182][183][184]

On 28 April 2021 the European Parliament passed a resolution that urges all EU institutions and EU Member States to stop the completion of Nord Stream 2.[185]

In May 2021, the Biden administration waived Trump's CAATSA sanctions on the company behind the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline and its chief executive.[186][187] Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov welcomed the move as "a chance for a gradual transition toward the normalisation of our bilateral ties".[188] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was "surprised" and "disappointed" by Biden's decision.[189]

[Captainant 27450]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Try harder to pay attention guys. 

Political aspectsEdit

In January 2018, United States Secretary of StateRex Tillerson said that the U.S. and Poland oppose the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. They see it as undermining Europe's energy security and stability.[167] The Nord Stream 2 pipeline was also opposed by former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, former U.S. President Donald Trump, the European Council President Donald Tusk and British foreign minister Boris Johnson.[168][169] The president of the European Council Donald Tusk has said that Nord Stream 2 is not in the EU's interests.[170] Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán have questioned the different treatment of Nord Stream 2 and South Stream projects.[170][171] Some claim that the project violates the long-term declared strategy of the EU to diversify its gas supplies.[172] A letter, signed by the leaders of nine EU countries, was sent to the EC in March 2016, warning that the Nord Stream 2 project contradicts the European energy policy requirements that suppliers to the EU should not control the energy transmission assets, and that access to the energy infrastructure must be secured for non-consortium companies.[173][174] A letter by American lawmakers John McCain and Marco Rubioto the EU also criticized the project in July 2016.[175]Isabelle Kocher, chief executive officer of Engie, criticised American sanctions targeting the projects, and said they were an attempt to promote American gas in Europe.[176]

German Chancellor Angela Merkelwith Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi, Russia, 18 May 2018

In June 2017, Germany and Austria criticized the United States Senate over new sanctions against Russia that target the planned Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia to Germany,[177][178] stating that the United States was threatening Europe's energy supplies.[179] In a joint statement Austria's Chancellor Christian Kern and Germany's Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said that "Europe's energy supply is a matter for Europe, and not for the United States of America."[180] They also said: "To threaten companies from Germany, Austria and other European states with penalties on the U.S. market if they participate in natural gas projects such as Nord Stream 2 with Russia or finance them introduces a completely new and very negative quality into European-American relations."[181]

On January 1, 2021, an annual defense policy bill passed by the U.S. Congress included sanctions for companies who worked on or insured the pipeline. On January 26, the White House said that newly sworn-in President Joe Biden "continues to believe that Nord Stream 2 is a bad deal for Europe" and that his administration "will be reviewing" the new sanctions. (Biden had previously opposed the pipeline as Vice President.) According to congressional aides cited in a February report by NBC News, the sanctions enjoy "strong bipartisan support" on Capitol Hill.[182][183][184]

On 28 April 2021 the European Parliament passed a resolution that urges all EU institutions and EU Member States to stop the completion of Nord Stream 2.[185]

In May 2021, the Biden administration waived Trump's CAATSA sanctions on the company behind the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline and its chief executive.[186][187] Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov welcomed the move as "a chance for a gradual transition toward the normalisation of our bilateral ties".[188] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was "surprised" and "disappointed" by Biden's decision.[189]

nonono you're supposed to post a 10-15 minute youtube video without any other context or analysis from yourself. Not just copy/pasta a wiki article. Man, your concern troll skills have been slipping

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Yes, one of our main allies conviced us to remove sanctions that would benefit them. Do we know if we got something for that change? No. But maybe we did. Or maybe we traded sanctions and that was it. Diplomacy and shit. But don't act like the Biden Admin is in some way identical to the Trump Admin in regards to diplomacy with our allies and our adversaries. 

[Anastasis 23395]

22 minutes ago, Captainant said:

nonono you're supposed to post a 10-15 minute youtube video without any other context or analysis from yourself. Not just copy/pasta a wiki article. Man, your concern troll skills have been slipping

You’d be the first one here squeaking tweets from your dumbfuck echo chamber if trump did what Biden did. Just try to be honest with yourself. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

32 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yes. Please detail the differences between the trump administrations position re NS2 and Biden’s accommodation. Work in pee pee tape delusions to be completely contextual. 

I should have been more clear in my statement. I meant context matters because Trump, who believed Putins denial over Russia’s own interference in our election over his own government clouds any action he did for or against Russia. Biden does not have that cloud currently. 

“I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today,” Donald Trump 

We still have sanctions on Russia, specifically related to cyber attacks, you know the massive ones perpetrated against our government under Trumps administration. 

Some have speculated that Biden was relenting on NS2 as a favor to Germany. I don’t know that. You don’t know. No one knows but both governments admins for sure. Time will tell. 

But to suggest Biden is as lax on Russia as Trump is laughable and almost to the point of trolling. 

[Anastasis 23395]

13 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Yes, one of our main allies conviced us to remove sanctions that would benefit them. Do we know if we got something for that change? No. But maybe we did. Or maybe we traded sanctions and that was it. Diplomacy and shit. But don't act like the Biden Admin is in some way identical to the Trump Admin in regards to diplomacy with our allies and our adversaries. 

I was told it was all pee pee tapes and Russian leverage but now we appreciate the wide world of diplomacy. Clowns. 

[Js1 85108]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

I should have been more clear in my statement. I meant context matters because Trump, who believed Putins denial over Russia’s own interference in our election over his own government clouds any action he did for or against Russia. Biden does not have that cloud currently. 

“I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today,” Donald Trump 

We still have sanctions on Russia, specifically related to cyber attacks, you know the massive ones perpetrated against our government under Trumps administration. 

Some have speculated that Biden was relenting on NS2 as a favor to Germany. I don’t know that. You don’t know. No one knows but both governments admins for sure. Time will tell. 

But to suggest Biden is as lax on Russia as Trump is laughable and almost to the point of trolling. 

Was an actual GOP talking point this morning from the RNC. 

So yeah. 

[Anastasis 23395]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

But to suggest Biden is as lax on Russia as Trump is laughable and almost to the point of trolling. 

Please detail the actual policy positions and which way they tilt. Be specific and detailed. You said you could explain the differences. Proceed. With some nuance please.  

[Captainant 27450]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

You’d be the first one here squeaking tweets from your dumbfuck echo chamber if trump did what Biden did. Just try to be honest with yourself. 

Whatever you say, kiddo. Joe Biden is definitely 100% as bad as trump in every way possible and wants to get cucked by daddy putin just like trump did. I definitely believe that because I'm a completely sane, not trolling, intellectual giant

We're just so lucky to have very fine people like yourself and GRUhorn to keep the record straight

[Anastasis 23395]

Just now, Captainant said:

Whatever you say, kiddo. Joe Biden is definitely 100% as bad as trump in every way possible and wants to get cucked by daddy putin just like trump did. I definitely believe that because I'm a completely sane, not trolling, intellectual giant

We're just so lucky to have very fine people like yourself and GRUhorn to keep the record straight

Total clown. 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I was told it was all pee pee tapes and Russian leverage but now we appreciate the wide world of diplomacy. Clowns. 

When someone points out how trump and Biden are different on Russia, ittle Anastasis’ feel feels for trump start to show.

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I was told it was all pee pee tapes and Russian leverage but now we appreciate the wide world of diplomacy. Clowns. 

You created that box for us. No one stated it was purely pee pee tapes and money laundering leverage. That just helps you both sides the argument. However, those could still be in play, along with a wide range of other factors. Again, context matters. But yes, let's disregard how inept the Trump Admin was at just about everything, including diplomacy. Side note : I'm especially surprised that you are a Bolton defender now. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

this is a fun read. totally reminds me of Biden. 

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/03/politics/trump-putin-russia-timeline/
 

 

[Anastasis 23395]

13 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I should have been more clear in my statement.

The best context is the kind that requires reframing. 

[Anastasis 23395]

4 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

But yes, let's disregard how inept the Trump Admin was at just about everything, including diplomacy. Side note : I'm especially surprised that you are a Bolton defender now. 

Straw man on top of straw man just cause y’all dipshits can’t recognize Biden acquiescing to Putin’s interests cause it breaks your brains. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Straw man on top of straw man just cause y’all dipshits can’t recognize Biden acquiescing to Putin’s interests cause it breaks your brains. 

Speaking of broken brains, explain how adding sanctions to Putin equals acquiescing to Putin? 

Bonus round: what is the technique of debate you use when consistently bringing up pee tapes? 

Edited June 16, 2021 by SmokeyTheBear

[RomaVicta 29784]

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I was told it was all pee pee tapes and Russian leverage but now we appreciate the wide world of diplomacy. Clowns. 

Perhaps you will label me a clown as well, but I think your judgment about the difference in level of criticim of Biden versus Trump regarding Russia is based in a very narrow view.

Trump started lying the first day of his presidency when he insisted the crowd at his innauguration was the biggest ever despite photographic evidence. This is a trivial example of his history as a liar, but it does indicate how all encompassing and constant that behavior was.

• Trump's national security advisor feloniously acted as an agent for Russia.
• Trump laughed it up with the Russian ambassador and some other Russian in the Oval office where he revealed classified information.
• Trump denied the Russians tried to impact the election and he and his entire staff and family lied about Russian contact with his campaign.
• Amid that, Trump makes one of many decisions that clearly favor Russia.

Biden?

• Doesn't lie constantly.
• He makes a single decision that may favor Russia.

Does this really look the same to you?

You look for the same outrage over the single act at the bottom of the bullet lists? One man is a scoundrel through and through whose words you should always doubt and whose intentions are rarely if ever for the good of anyone other than himself. The consistency of believing the worst of Trump was because an enormous list of prior outrages that my little bullet list only alludes to.

One man  exhibited a consistent behavior of kowtowing to Putin. The other man you are judging the same for ust  a single act.

[Captainant 27450]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Straw man on top of straw man just cause y’all dipshits can’t recognize Biden acquiescing to Putin’s interests cause it breaks your brains. 

What's got you so fired up about it, anyways? You didn't give a shit about it when trump was dragging his feet on sanctions, sharing sensitive information with the russians in the fucking oval office without ANY other US officials present, pursuing personal gain and business dealings in exchange for making the US do what russia wanted, or just straight up asking russia to interfere in our electoral process. Why do you care now?

Am I happy with what biden is doing across the board? Fuck to the NO! Is it immeasurably better than what trump was doing? Fucking YES!

Biden isn't my guy - but I trust that he isn't just looking out for himself like trump provably was. But of course:

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

BOTHSIDES BOTHSIDES BIDEN BAD RAGHRBLBLBLRABHGHTL

 

[wildcat09 29239]

I'm old enough to remember when Anastasis at least acknowledged the Trump tower meeting, that the Trump campaign gave private polling data to a Russian agent, and that Trump's behavior in Helsinki warranted impeachment.

 

[jimmyjazz 45557]

35 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I was told it was all pee pee tapes and Russian leverage but now we appreciate the wide world of diplomacy. 

No you weren't, not universally.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Why does everything have to be measured and benchmarked against Trump? Is it because when benchmarked against “satisfactory”, it doesn’t clear the mark? So then one must resort to “but it’s miles better and different than what the flunkie was doing!”

I saw this a lot with the border stuff too with the detainees.

Is it a thin defense because it’s your team? Is it because GQP is yelling “hypocrite” or “samesies!” every time Biden does something politically mediocre or both?

Edited June 16, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[jimmyjazz 45557]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

What's got you so fired up about it, anyways? You didn't give a shit about it when trump was dragging his feet on sanctions, sharing sensitive information with the russians in the fucking oval office without ANY other US officials present, pursuing personal gain and business dealings in exchange for making the US do what russia wanted, or just straight up asking russia to interfere in our electoral process. Why do you care now?

Are you really unclear about the answer to this question?

[jimmyjazz 45557]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Are you really unclear about the answer to this question?

Let me follow on:  @Anastasis is @DonkeyCigars with a broader vocabulary and higher SAT scores.

Or, perhaps he's @DonkeyCigars with identical SAT scores, if anyone gets my drift, and I know you all do.

[Captainant 27450]

4 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Why does everything have to be measured and benchmarked against Trump? Is it because when benchmarked against “satisfactory”, it doesn’t clear the mark? So then one must resort to “but it’s miles better and different than what the flunkie was doing!”

I saw this a lot with the border stuff too with the detainees.

Is it a thin defense? Is it because GQP is yelling “hypocrite” or “samesies!” every time Biden does something politically mediocre or both?

Well for starters, "trump" IS our baseline state that the country is coming off of. Also, it's pretty common to compare one president's actions against their predecessor. But if you're sensitive about people saying mean things about your electoral preference/GOD EMPORER, I can understand why you'd just be asking questions about it.

The government doesn't turn on a dime. Policy isn't something that you can change whole-cloth and expect consistent results. 

In my view, it's very reasonable. Would you prefer we measure Biden's policy stance towards russia with Eisenhauer's? I'm not quite sold on the idea of that being a relevant comparison.

[Anastasis 23395]

10 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Perhaps you will label me a clown as well, but I think your judgment about the difference in level of criticim of Biden versus Trump regarding Russia is based in a very narrow view.

Trump started lying the first day of his presidency when he insisted the crowd at his innauguration was the biggest ever despite photographic evidence. This is a trivial example of his history as a liar, but it does indicate how all encompassing and constant that behavior was.

• Trump's national security advisor feloniously acted as an agent for Russia.
• Trump laughed it up with the Russian ambassador and some other Russian in the Oval office where he revealed classified information.
• Trump denied the Russians tried to impact the election and he and his entire staff and family lied about Russian contact with his campaign.
• Amid that, Trump makes one of many decisions that clearly favor Russia.

Biden?

• Doesn't lie constantly.
• He makes a single decision that may favor Russia.

Does this really look the same to you?

You look for the same outrage over the single act at the bottom of the bullet lists? One man is a scoundrel through and through whose words you should always doubt and whose intentions are rarely if ever for the good of anyone other than himself. The consistency of believing the worst of Trump was because an enormous list of prior outrages that my little bullet list only alludes to.

One man  exhibited a consistent behavior of kowtowing to Putin. The other man you are judging the same for ust  a single act.

Putin got his pipeline. Orient around outcomes. 

[workswithseed 2036]

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

nonono you're supposed to post a 10-15 minute youtube video without any other context or analysis from yourself. Not just copy/pasta a wiki article. Man, your concern troll skills have been slipping

Shot off the bow! Next you're going to talk about Twitter links with nothing else added. Also you didn't even disagree but throw shit at the wall anyways.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Why does everything have to be measured and benchmarked against Trump? Is it because when benchmarked against “satisfactory”, it doesn’t clear the mark? So then one must resort to “but it’s miles better and different than what the flunkie was doing!”

I saw this a lot with the border stuff too with the detainees.

Is it a thin defense because it’s your team? Is it because GQP is yelling “hypocrite” or “samesies!” every time Biden does something politically mediocre or both?

It's because a group of people decided to be a blind defender to all of Trump's and GOP's failings, which were immense, especially compared to just about any other President or party ever. So yes, if you were OK with the strategy of ripping families apart and losing who belongs to who, as a strategy against immigrants coming here, and then later make sure to tweet any little gaff the current President makes, fuck that. 

We hit a major low with Trump. Trying to tear down the next person to try and fix the things he tore apart seems a bit disingenuous 

[Anastasis 23395]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let me follow on:  @Anastasis is @DonkeyCigars with a broader vocabulary and higher SAT scores.

Or, perhaps he's @DonkeyCigars with identical SAT scores, if anyone gets my drift, and I know you all do.

I don’t remember my sat scores. Never really mattered to me. Standardized tests always seemed like a brutality so I didn’t pay them much mind. They never really impacted my educational attainment in a meaningful way. Thankfully. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23395]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Shot off the bow! Next you're going to talk about Twitter links with nothing else added. 

Bread and butter cloak room shit for the last five years. 

[workswithseed 2036]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Putin got his pipeline. Orient around outcomes. 

 

[Captainant 27450]

Just now, workswithseed said:

Shot off the bow! Next you're going to talk about Twitter links with nothing else added. Also you didn't even disagree but throw shit at the wall anyways.

Lol, posting twitter links of news/information without additional comment is different from sharing punditry and op-eds without additional comment.

The intent of the former is to make sure that the relevant factual information is included in the discussion thread.

The intent of the latter is to echo an argument that you don't have the capacity to internalize and re-synthesize yourself, and shield your own views from criticism as "just posting what $AUTHOR thought".

But yeah you're in the right thread to make fallacious equivalencies and bitch about them. It is where anastasia is currently shitting.

[Anastasis 23395]

32 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Speaking of broken brains, explain how adding sanctions to Putin equals acquiescing to Putin? 

Brain.worms.

 

In May 2021, the Biden administration waived Trump's CAATSA sanctions on the company behind the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline and its chief executive.[186][187] Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov welcomed the move as "a chance for a gradual transition toward the normalisation of our bilateral ties".[188] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was "surprised" and "disappointed" by Biden's decision.[189]

Edited June 16, 2021 by Anastasis

[jimmyjazz 45557]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Brain.worms.

"Yawn."

#translation

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Brain.worms.

So you have brain worms? Help me understand annie. 

[Anastasis 23395]

Amazing that you guys just can’t acknowledge the obvious. 

[Captainant 27450]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Brain.worms.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let me follow on:  @Anastasis is @DonkeyCigars with a broader vocabulary and higher SAT scores.

Or, perhaps he's @DonkeyCigars with identical SAT scores, if anyone gets my drift, and I know you all do.

I don’t get the drift. Anastasis is clearly smarter than me, he’s a pharmacology professional, etc. and I’m just a dumb business guy, but not sure what trying to make me fee inferior to him means in this context. Maybe you’ll have to spell it out for me.

[Js1 85108]

Ani is just said Trump isn't still in power to burn it all down.  That's all he cares/cared about. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Amazing that you guys just can’t acknowledge the obvious. 

That Biden removed sanctions but also added even more sanctions and that means he is in Putins pocket just like Trump? But not like Trump because there was nothing between Russia and Trump? 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

22 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

It's because a group of people decided to be a blind defender to all of Trump's and GOP's failings, which were immense, especially compared to just about any other President or party ever. So yes, if you were OK with the strategy of ripping families apart and losing who belongs to who, as a strategy against immigrants coming here, and then later make sure to tweet any little gaff the current President makes, fuck that. 

We hit a major low with Trump. Trying to tear down the next person to try and fix the things he tore apart seems a bit disingenuous 

So I’m hearing that defense of Biden, in the good bad and ugly, is a defensive maneuver against the right wings that want to tear Biden down or erode his brand and reputation, for political reasons. That makes sense. Politics is a war zone with two competing armies in 2021.

Edited June 16, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Anastasis 23395]

Tap dance clowns. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well for starters, "trump" IS our baseline state that the country is coming off of. Also, it's pretty common to compare one president's actions against their predecessor. But if you're sensitive about people saying mean things about your electoral preference/GOD EMPORER, I can understand why you'd just be asking questions about it.

The government doesn't turn on a dime. Policy isn't something that you can change whole-cloth and expect consistent results. 

In my view, it's very reasonable. Would you prefer we measure Biden's policy stance towards russia with Eisenhauer's? I'm not quite sold on the idea of that being a relevant comparison.

I disagree with you. I agree with Smokey around the political value but you seem to be pointing to something else.

Its like I’d tell my kids, don’t compare yourself to the peckerwood in the neighborhood and think you’ve done a good job. Compare yourself to the expectations ive set for you. Be better, as I believe woke Twitter likes to say.

Edited June 16, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Neonmoon 38127]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/13/no-trump-has-not-been-tough-russia/
 

Quote

 

Last month, the Treasury Department announced new sanctions against four Kremlin-linked figures for their efforts to interfere in the upcoming U.S. presidential election. The measures were met with acclaim as a long-awaited response to Russia’s interventions in American democracy.

In reality, though, these measures are little more than a pinprick — the latest episode in a long history of efforts by the Trump administration to appear tough on Russia while actually signaling to the Kremlin that U.S. elections remain open to interference. The simple fact is that even harsh-looking sanctions have little impact when there’s zero political will to enforce them.

 

 

The Treasury Department’s actions imposed asset freezes on Andriy Derkach, a Ukrainian politician and alleged Kremlin agent, and three mid-level bureaucrats at a Russian troll farm. None of these individuals, however, are likely to own significant financial holdings in the West, so the sanctions will have minimal impact on their lives. Even if they do, the measures will certainly not affect the Kremlin’s decision-making.

 

Derkach’s inclusion was somewhat surprising, as Derkach met with Trump’s personal attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, at least three timesand has been at the center of a disinformation campaign perpetuated by Sens. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and Charles Grassley (R-Iowa). But Derkach, who attended KGB training school, has led interference efforts so blatant that the administration had little choice. Blocking sanctions against Derkach could have caused political blowback, while letting them proceed enables the Trump administration to claim to be “tough” on Russia.

We shouldn’t be fooled. From its start, the Trump administration has systematically undermined U.S. sanctions against Russia.

 

 

Immediately upon entering the White House, Trump tried to lift Obama-era sanctions and return diplomatic compounds seized by the United States due to interference in the 2016 election. Months later, Congress drew up a bill to strengthen Russia sanctions and prevent Trump from lifting them. The administration lobbied hard against the legislation. When it passed with a veto-proof majority, Trump issued a statement expressing displeasure — and signaling that enforcement would be lax.

His administration has done exactly that. It delayed implementing the law and missed key deadlines, grudgingly conceding only after intervention by congressional leaders. Nervous tycoons scrambled to hire Washington lobbyists to keep themselves off a blacklist mandated by the law. But the Trump team made a mockery of the effort by merely copying and pasting from a Forbes list of Russian billionaires. That reassured the Kremlin that the sanctions would never be used as intended.

Trump’s most egregious act of sanctions malfeasance, however, came in April 2018. That was when the Treasury Department — acting with support from then-national security adviser H.R. McMaster, on his way out of the White House — imposed the first consequential Russia sanctions of the Trump years, targeting the oligarch Oleg Deripaska and his aluminum company, Rusal. The impact was swift: Rusal’s shares nosedived by more than 50 percent.

 

 

Instead of using this leverage to extract concessions from Moscow, the Trump administration immediately defanged the sanctions and eventually expunged Rusal from the sanctions list. To make matters worse, the Trump administration cut a deal with Deripaska, whom the Senate Intelligence Committee described as a “proxy for the Russian state and intelligence services,” allowing him to maintain control of his businesses through allies. This episode sent an unambiguous message to both Moscow and the private sector: The Trump administration had no stomach for tough sanctions against Russia.

 

Meanwhile, the administration dragged its feet on imposing consequences for the nerve agent attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia. It delayed chemical weapons sanctions required by law, only moving forward after formal requests and demands frombipartisan congressional leaders. Unsurprisingly, when the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was recently poisoned with a similar agent, the Trump administration said — and did — nothing.

 

Ahead of the 2018 midterms, bipartisan legislation to deter Moscow from interfering in future U.S. elections gained momentum in the Senate. Trump cut it off at the pass, signing an executive ordermimicking its language but lacking the critical piece: automatic sanctions against Russian banks and energy companies if the Kremlin’s attacks on American democracy persisted. It was this executive order that the Treasury Department used in September.

 

 

Trump’s policy on Russia sanctions has been an elaborate ruse, designed to project toughness while actually doing little to follow through. The reality is that Trump, far from taking a tough line, has proactively undermined sanctions from Day One of his term in the White House.

The results are clear. As Trump’s own FBI director recently emphasized, Russia is continuing to interfere in our politics today. That’s not because the sanctions have failed to achieve their purpose. It’s because Trump never intended them to work in the first place.

 

[elfenix 34171]

i see that anastasis is on board with the US telling the rest of the world, including europe, what's good for them. 

[Captainant 27450]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Brain.worms.

 

In May 2021, the Biden administration waived Trump's CAATSA sanctions on the company behind the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline and its chief executive.[186][187] Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov welcomed the move as "a chance for a gradual transition toward the normalisation of our bilateral ties".[188] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was "surprised" and "disappointed" by Biden's decision.[189]

Also - just to actually cite the relevant information and not just """PeOPlE aRe SaYiNg" with unattributed text (note to WWS: this is an example of sharing factual information for the discussion)

U.S. waives sanctions on Nord Stream 2 as Biden seeks to mend Europe ties

In the Reuters reporting, it states that the Biden admin made this move as a concession towards Germany, but it DOES have the ill effects of further isolating Ukraine and indeed weakening the US posture towards russia. If you'll recall, our relationship with Germany was pretty far on the outs thanks to yaboi trump and his unnecessary antagonism that distanced ourselves from our allies.

Do I think that it's good that we lessened some sanctions against russia and its oligarchs? Fuck no! But I'm also a big boy and able to hold more than one thought at the same time in my head, and I can recognize that there are other factors at play here in terms of destabilizing our international relationships that were so badly mangled by trump.+

Also bears noting - this is the only thing that annie and his merry band of concern trolls can point to as far as biden being soft on russia. And it happened at the hundred day (ish) mark of his presidency, and it wasn't just for the sake of making daddy putin happy.

 

EDIT: this AP article is good too if you want more than just whatever fox and facebook are telling you what to think:

Quote

REYKJAVIK, Iceland (AP) — The Biden administration imposed sanctions Wednesday on Russian companies and ships for their work on a European natural gas pipeline adamantly opposed by the U.S., but President Joe Biden angered many Democratic and Republican lawmakers by opting not to punish the German company overseeing the project.

Waiving penalties regarding ally German in the Nord Stream 2 project was “in line with our commitment to strengthen our Transatlantic relationships as a matter of national security,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a statement.

The U.S. has battled for years to block the pipeline, now 95% complete, though construction has not yet started on its German leg. The pipeline will carry natural gas from Russia to Germany, increasing Russia’s leverage as a vital energy supplier in Europe. The U.S. argues that the pipeline threatens European energy security, heightens Russia’s influence and poses risks to Ukraine and Poland in bypassing both countries.

Critics of the pipeline had hoped to stop it by targeting the German company and its top executive.

Sen. Bob Menendez, a New Jersey Democrat and chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he opposed Biden’s waiver for Germany. Senior committee member Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, a New Hampshire Democrat, said the pipeline “allows Russia to further spread its malign influence.”

“Oh, my God, enable Russia!” Sen. Joni Ernst, an Iowa Republican, exclaimed at the decision. “Joe Biden, thank you so much for allowing Russia to export their goods,” she said, sarcastically.

Blinken said the Biden administration would continue to fight the pipeline. “Our opposition to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is unwavering,” he said.

Biden’s administration has emphasized strengthening alliances internationally to deal with foreign policy challenges. U.S. relations with Germany were unsettled by President Donald Trump’s frequent affronts to Germany and other European allies and Trump’s enthusiasm for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas, who spoke with Blinken by phone Tuesday, praised the decision regarding the German interests involved.

“We perceive this to be a constructive step that we will gladly continue to discuss with our partners in Washington,” Maas told reporters in Berlin on Wednesday.

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Captainant

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

So I’m hearing that defense of Biden, in the good bad and ugly, is a defensive maneuver against the right wings that want to tear Biden down or erode his brand and reputation, for political reasons. That makes sense. Politics is a war zone with two competing armies in 2021.

If you want to characterize it like that, sure. This is a message board with random users posting shit that we get to poke at, discuss, add context and perspective to. As users, you start learning about other users and how they view the world and the context to which they post stuff. Some poke at others in that regard. So within this site, yes it's political war. But guess what, this was developed over decades by media companies and political parties with the zenith being Trump, who made it be his supporters as the true patriots and all others as enemies. That hasn't happened before and thinking that the politics of the day are the politics historically (in America), you are gravely mistaken. Trump was voted in to break the system and now we are to believe that the Biden administration is following suit? Based on what evidence? Pee tapes, Russia Russia Russia, whatever BS lens you try to view the opposition thru is perpetuaring that schism by equating Trumps actions to all others and normalizing it. See annies arguments. Biden took sanctions away for an ally yet added even more sanctions to Russia for their misdeeds. Does that sound like Biden is acquiescing to Putin? 

Personally I think we should sanction the shit out of Russia but I also am not privy to all the info Biden and team have and the pressures from allies. I don't get to sit in the daily briefings but glad that this President is actually doing so and trust that he can strategize how to deal with Russia better than someone who was their most powerful defender.

Politics is rarely black and white yet there are those trying to make it so. 

[Anastasis 23395]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i see that anastasis is on board with the US telling the rest of the world, including europe, what's good for them. 

Straw man on top of deflection. 

[Anastasis 23395]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Also - just to actually cite the relevant information and not just """PeOPlE aRe SaYiNg" with unattributed text (note to WWS: this is an example of sharing factual information for the discussion)

U.S. waives sanctions on Nord Stream 2 as Biden seeks to mend Europe ties

In the Reuters reporting, it states that the Biden admin made this move as a concession towards Germany, but it DOES have the ill effects of further isolating Ukraine and indeed weakening the US posture towards russia. If you'll recall, our relationship with Germany was pretty far on the outs thanks to yaboi trump and his unnecessary antagonism that distanced ourselves from our allies.

Do I think that it's good that we lessened some sanctions against russia and its oligarchs? Fuck no! But I'm also a big boy and able to hold more than one thought at the same time in my head, and I can recognize that there are other factors at play here in terms of destabilizing our international relationships that were so badly mangled by trump.+

Also bears noting - this is the only thing that annie and his merry band of concern trolls can point to as far as biden being soft on russia. And it happened at the hundred day (ish) mark of his presidency, and it wasn't just for the sake of making daddy putin happy.

Now give your take if trump did the exact same thing. 
 

Jesus Christ some of you guys are really trying hard to miss the point. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Straw man on top of deflection. 

Pee pee tapes