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COVID-19 vaccine discussion

Texas Jeff

By Texas Jeff
in Daily Texan

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Dontshootrude
Dontshootrude

Reading the last couple pages of this thread, I can't help but jump in here.  I'm a molecular biologist.  I'm happy to verify with the mods, just PM me so I don't dox myself.  I have not read most of

EE2B
EE2B

This was posted by an ER doc from a local hospital: I have been mostly silent on the COVID surge but I feel it’s a duty and responsibility for healthcare professionals to report what we are seeing an

Somnio
Somnio

You're a fascist who wishes death and suffering upon people.  You're why genocide has happened throughout history.  I've seen your vile posts before.  You need help.  Seriously, I'll swallow my pride

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Txzen

Txzen 498

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The recognition of nucleic acids is a pretty old and evolutionarily conserved arm of the immune system, regulated by receptors called 'Toll Like Receptors' (named because the German scientist who discovered them in the lab called them 'toll', meaning 'cool'.). Their whole role is to recognize 'coatings' that are used by bacteria, or nucleic acids (single, or double-stranded RNA) used by viruses or bacteria. 

While the nanoparticle coating could potentially diminish 'free' RNA from floating around, I'm not sure that's the mechanism here as TLR receptors cycle into the intracellular space, basically to monitor for the presence of infection. This pathway gets abnormal in people with autoimmune disease, for instance, where the body starts making an immune response to normal cellular RNA and DNA (like in lupus). Basically, there immune system evolved to deal with the threat of nucleic acids floating around that don't belong there. 

I think what's being seen with those with severe allergic hypersensitivity will see it with either RNA vaccine, or at least thats my guess. Again, these are people who have such hypersensitivity they have to travel around with EpiPens, so it's not just people like me that sneeze in contact with anything flowering or furry. 

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Txzen

Txzen 498

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No, and the recognition of 'self' nucleic acids is definitely a pathway for the onset of autoimmune disease. Basically, if a cell dies quietly, you're less likely to have issues. But apoptosis in the context of other inflammatory signals can definitely break self-tolerance. 

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Chet Steadman

Chet Steadman 940

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11 hours ago, Txzen said:

The recognition of nucleic acids is a pretty old and evolutionarily conserved arm of the immune system, regulated by receptors called 'Toll Like Receptors' (named because the German scientist who discovered them in the lab called them 'toll', meaning 'cool'.). Their whole role is to recognize 'coatings' that are used by bacteria, or nucleic acids (single, or double-stranded RNA) used by viruses or bacteria. 

While the nanoparticle coating could potentially diminish 'free' RNA from floating around, I'm not sure that's the mechanism here as TLR receptors cycle into the intracellular space, basically to monitor for the presence of infection. This pathway gets abnormal in people with autoimmune disease, for instance, where the body starts making an immune response to normal cellular RNA and DNA (like in lupus). Basically, there immune system evolved to deal with the threat of nucleic acids floating around that don't belong there. 

I think what's being seen with those with severe allergic hypersensitivity will see it with either RNA vaccine, or at least thats my guess. Again, these are people who have such hypersensitivity they have to travel around with EpiPens, so it's not just people like me that sneeze in contact with anything flowering or furry. 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

Was wondering the same thing myself, along with other random questions like what happens if you get the first stage of the vax then contract covid before you get the 2nd?

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rpspeed

rpspeed 1361

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29 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

That sucks. I want to wear a shirt that says "I'M IMMUNE FROM YOUR BULLSHIT".

I was like wtf at first but I think she said they are going on an 80% effective  rate and can't have an asymptomatic nurse or doc walking thru the ICU because the vaccine didn't work on them.

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Heme Doc

Heme Doc 417

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Happy EUA Day for Pfizer vaccine!  If we don’t see the FDA issue an EUA today, they should be lit on fire.  Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  

I got an email from my Pfizer trial location basically letting me know that I’d be unblinded once the EUA was issued and if I received placebo (unlikely), then they’d get me in ASAP for the real vaccine because I’m in healthcare.  
 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13507

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20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

I’m seeing reports that the previously infected should get it. The vaccine might produce a longer time you are immune. Worse case the vaccine does nothing for you. Outside of implanting the Bill Gates tracker in you, of course.

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Heme Doc

Heme Doc 417

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Two more interesting vaccine things...

It would be nice if we had a quick, readily available test for COVID neutralizing antibodies.  Probably around 60M Americans have already been infected with COVID.  So if you could identify those people, their vaccination could be deferred since it will be in somewhat short supply initially.

Which transitions to the second thing...Almost all of our commercially available antibody tests are to the N (nucleocapsid) part of the coronavirus.  But these vaccines are all built to elicit antibodies to the S (spike) part of the virus.     So if I get vaccine, my antibody test will be negative for N (assuming I haven’t actually had COVID).  So what Pfizer is doing is checking vaccinated folks for the presence N antibodies, which could only be elicited by actual COVID infection.  So you’ll have your answer if vaccination prevents infection entirely (thus halting transmission) or if it only causes infections to be asymptomatic.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23456

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Happy EUA Day for Pfizer vaccine!  If we don’t see the FDA issue an EUA today, they should be lit on fire.  Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  

I got an email from my Pfizer trial location basically letting me know that I’d be unblinded once the EUA was issued and if I received placebo (unlikely), then they’d get me in ASAP for the real vaccine because I’m in healthcare.  
 

I think that at least a couple of the no’s would have supported the eua if it was amended to 18+. Hard to know cause they did not do the customary discussion after the vote. But that was my read based on hearing some of the discussion before. The chair just rammed the motion through and stifled a lot of the discussion by shutting down questions. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that at least a couple of the no’s would have supported the eua if it was amended to 18+. Hard to know cause they did not do the customary discussion after the vote. But that was my read based on hearing some of the discussion before. The chair just rammed the motion through and stifled a lot of the discussion by shutting down questions. 

I would’ve loved to hear what the no’s were based on. We’ve consulted these experts for a reason, their concerns should’ve been fully voiced. Then people could’ve decided on their own if they were well founded, or just based on a small technicality like the age cutoff. 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52485

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13 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

Two more interesting vaccine things...

It would be nice if we had a quick, readily available test for COVID neutralizing antibodies.  Probably around 60M Americans have already been infected with COVID.  So if you could identify those people, their vaccination could be deferred since it will be in somewhat short supply initially.

Which transitions to the second thing...Almost all of our commercially available antibody tests are to the N (nucleocapsid) part of the coronavirus.  But these vaccines are all built to elicit antibodies to the S (spike) part of the virus.     So if I get vaccine, my antibody test will be negative for N (assuming I haven’t actually had COVID).  So what Pfizer is doing is checking vaccinated folks for the presence N antibodies, which could only be elicited by actual COVID infection.  So you’ll have your answer if vaccination prevents infection entirely (thus halting transmission) or if it only causes infections to be asymptomatic.  

That our natural immunoresponse is to the N as you say, could mutations there be the reason people can or have had second infection?  Whereas the spike is a stable piece by replication necessity and thus antibodies for it continue to be useful?

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Heme Doc

Heme Doc 417

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12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That our natural immunoresponse is to the N as you say, could mutations there be the reason people can or have had second infection?  Whereas the spike is a stable piece by replication necessity and thus antibodies for it continue to be useful?

Our natural immune response is against all parts of the coronavirus (Nucleocapsid, Spike protein, etc).  It’s just that what we are testing for primarily right now is antibodies against N.  So we have a way to distinguish immunity through vaccination (should only have antibodies to Spike) vs immunity through infection (should have antibodies to N, Spike, etc)
 

I’m not sure why people get infected twice, but that is very rare.  Fortunately, coronaviruses are more stable than other viruses like flu, so hopefully we won’t see emergence of mutations affecting Spike protein that will allow it to evade immunity.  

 

 

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Bevo

Bevo 13560

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43 minutes ago, whithou said:

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

Is it only for employees and physicians with privileges at your hospital or can any physician get it?

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whithou

whithou 149

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9 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Why are they passing?

Reasons from being "I don't want to be a guinea pig" to "Bill Gates wants to know where I am". I wish I was kidding. When I ask if they have read more about the vaccine most haven't done their own research. 

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