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COVID-19 vaccine discussion

Texas Jeff

By Texas Jeff
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Dontshootrude
Dontshootrude

Reading the last couple pages of this thread, I can't help but jump in here.  I'm a molecular biologist.  I'm happy to verify with the mods, just PM me so I don't dox myself.  I have not read most of

EE2B
EE2B

This was posted by an ER doc from a local hospital: I have been mostly silent on the COVID surge but I feel it’s a duty and responsibility for healthcare professionals to report what we are seeing an

Somnio
Somnio

You're a fascist who wishes death and suffering upon people.  You're why genocide has happened throughout history.  I've seen your vile posts before.  You need help.  Seriously, I'll swallow my pride

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14339

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Not sure where new variant talk goes, but apparently Nu got named. Straight outta Colombia. 

It's actually mu. 

Quote

The variant contains genetic mutations that indicate natural immunity, current vaccines or monoclonal antibody treatments may not work as well against it as they do against the original ancestral virus, the WHO said. The mu strain needs further study to confirm whether it will prove to be more contagious, more deadly or more resistant to current vaccines and treatments.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/01/who-says-it-is-monitoring-a-new-covid-variant-called-mu.html

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

My wife organized a shot clinic at her school.  Bunch of parents right now getting shots.  Pretty pretty proud.  

That's awesome.  Pos rep.

Meanwhile back in my school district, some cunt is organizing a gofundme $25k deal so she can sue the school district over following a court ordered mask mandate.  

If you wanna trade district "role models", we're totally interested.  I'll throw in some remaindered furniture from the teacher's lounge.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14920

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, XYZ said:

I’m resigned to the fact that I’m going to catch covid. I’d rather do it sooner than later, while I still have antibodies from the vaccines.

Why? There have been 40M cases in a country of 330M. Just statistically your chances are low, and if you do the basics (masks, distancing, wash hands) you should be able to do better than average.

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XYZ

XYZ 2154

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Why? There have been 40M cases in a country of 330M. Just statistically your chances are low, and if you do the basics (masks, distancing, wash hands) you should be able to do better than average.

Cos covid is not going away, and the vaccines give us narrow, temporary protection. This thing keeps mutating and there’s no way to keep up, vaccination wise. Catching the fucking desease, on the other hand, trains your B cells or T cells or whatever and gives you broad, lasting immunity.

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utee94

utee94 15823

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Why? There have been 40M cases in a country of 330M. Just statistically your chances are low, and if you do the basics (masks, distancing, wash hands) you should be able to do better than average.

How long should he expect to wear masks and maintain distancing?  Two years?  Five years?  Forever?

The virus is never going away.  It's with us forever.    The reality is that pretty much everybody on this planet will eventually catch COVID sometime in the next 2-10 years.  Many people will catch it multiple times.  Just as some people catch a cold every year, and some even get a cold more than once in a single year.

But yes, absolutely maintain antibodies through vaccinations and boosters as advised by your doctor, so you limit the severity.  I've always anticipated the necessity of booster shots, in perpetuity.

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Snake Diggity

Snake Diggity 4624

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Why? There have been 40M cases in a country of 330M. Just statistically your chances are low, and if you do the basics (masks, distancing, wash hands) you should be able to do better than average.

It depends on what % of infected people you believe have been tested.  There are WIDE ranges for that estimate.  It’s certainly possible 7x as many people have been infected than have tested positive.

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11819

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Why? There have been 40M cases in a country of 330M. Just statistically your chances are low, and if you do the basics (masks, distancing, wash hands) you should be able to do better than average.

Just as a reference point (and no this isn't the flu), that's slightly above a 12% chance of catching it in a year, which is slightly above the chance of catching "the flu" based on the best data we have.  So it's a pretty substantial chance as far as getting sick goes.  You can do better than average with your mitigation mentions, but you're gonna get it eventually.  That's why vaccines are so important.  Your chance of catching it is the same or higher than the flu.  Your chance of dying of it is between 3 and 5 times higher than the flu, depending on your age/condition, if you're unvaccinated. 

Edited by Judge Roybeanbag
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Homercles

Homercles 10205

Posted
Posted

I’ve succumbed to the thought I’ll get it eventually as well…about 2/3rds of my friends have caught it since this thing kicked off.  Thankfully most of them have gotten vaccinated once they were available.  
 

However I don’t understand this attitude of ‘I’d rather go through it and have broader protection’ because people do get multiple infections.  If I can keep layering on boosters as needed, I am going to give my body every advantage I can.  
 

And again, masks do suck but if my 5+8yo kids can wear them all day long with zero whining…you can too ya pussy.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah, it's a layered approach.  My layered approach to avoiding cancer and heart disease is to eat better, swim regularly, and not use tobacco products so as to offset alcohol consumption.   There's no one paste or florescent bulb or pill that's gonna keep me safer from those diseases.  I have to take a conscious, broad approach each and everyday of my life.  I don't live in fear of those diseases, but I have to make judgement calls when I order lunch or shop at Trader Joe's.  

Because I still go out into public for work and food and and social events, I have to offset that with a layered approach to Covid-19.  So I mask up, sanitize hands, got the vaccine somewhat early on, signing up this month for the booster, keep distance/don't shake hands/get too close, and vitamin D/Zinc regimen.  

Like it or not, this layered approach is simply and factually more effective than a layered approach of no mask, bleach, and horse paste.  It's not good, bad, or indifferent.  It just IS.

Good news I guess is most people understand it's never gonna be just the "one thing" to combat Covid-19.  It's just that we still wildly differ on what the other steps should be.  

Edited by Lobo
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GTX Horn

GTX Horn 1708

Posted
Posted

I’m guessing the CARES study is probably measuring this but I’d guess that the majority of breakthrough infections are in patients with lower antibody counts, right? The higher the antibody count you have then you should be more protected from breakthrough infections (to an extent at least)

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B00M

B00M 6416

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

I’m guessing the CARES study is probably measuring this but I’d guess that the majority of breakthrough infections are in patients with lower antibody counts, right? The higher the antibody count you have then you should be more protected from breakthrough infections (to an extent at least)

Presumably but TBD. It's probably non linear, and maybe there's some count threshold where the protection falls off a cliff. It seems strange to me to see a number in the hundreds and rush to get a booster. Per google, the vaccinated immune compromised get S-Test results of 0. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29672

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Zeus said:

 

You wanna sum this up? I clicked and saw it was 3 hours and 28 minutes long and immediately hit the stop button. Ain't nobody got time for this. Who is Lex Fridman? Why should I listen to him? What does the video say? And who the hell is Vincent Racaniello?

I swear, this is the laziest type of post I can imagine. Post a 3 1/2 hour video with zero commentary and call it a day. Yeah, sure, you've got all day to take photos of the SEZ expansion but can't spare 5 minutes to tell us why it's worth anyone's while listen to whomever these guys are.

Simply by asking these questions, I've put far more effort into contributing to this conversation than this lazy effort.

 

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XYZ

XYZ 2154

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You wanna sum this up? I clicked and saw it was 3 hours and 28 minutes long and immediately hit the stop button. Ain't nobody got time for this. Who is Lex Fridman? Why should I listen to him? What does the video say? And who the hell is Vincent Racaniello?

I swear, this is the laziest type of post I can imagine. Post a 3 1/2 hour video with zero commentary and call it a day. Yeah, sure, you've got all day to take photos of the SEZ expansion but can't spare 5 minutes to tell us why it's worth anyone's while listen to whomever these guys are.

Simply by asking these questions, I've put far more effort into contributing to this conversation than this lazy effort.

This.

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South Austin

South Austin 52499

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, bolverk said:

You wanna sum this up? I clicked and saw it was 3 hours and 28 minutes long and immediately hit the stop button. Ain't nobody got time for this. Who is Lex Fridman? Why should I listen to him? What does the video say? And who the hell is Vincent Racaniello?

I swear, this is the laziest type of post I can imagine. Post a 3 1/2 hour video with zero commentary and call it a day. Yeah, sure, you've got all day to take photos of the SEZ expansion but can't spare 5 minutes to tell us why it's worth anyone's while listen to whomever these guys are.

Simply by asking these questions, I've put far more effort into contributing to this conversation than this lazy effort.

 

Yep.  If you post a 3.5 hour video that isn't the 2006 Rose Bowl without any summary or something along the lines of "jump to the 1:47:18 mark," then you need a Surly time out.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, XYZ said:

I’m resigned to the fact that I’m going to catch covid. I’d rather do it sooner than later, while I still have antibodies from the vaccines.

That's how I was before the vaccines.  My wife works in the schools and I work in retail public space almost every day. Both have been vaccinated and I think I either got it in Feb 2020 or never have had it at all.  Don't really give a rip about antibody test, if I'm following vaccine recommendations.  I totally get the curiosity factor there, but not for me.  Early on, I felt like it was simply a matter of when, not if.

All that being said, I shared about a month ago one of my unvaxxed colleagues literally almost dying from covid. he's 40ish, big dude, and in great health.  We have employees dropping from work from new positives; and there are still holdouts against getting vaccinated.  I am pissed off at a lot of different folks right now.  This shit is relatively preventable, but we have so many folks who had to try and make this shit a ideological choice.  Fuck that. Fuck the people who pulled the shit early on that makes something like  this a question of politics or "Who do you believe?"  Wearing glasses corrects vision.  Wearing shoes protects your feet.  The gotdam shot protects your health.

Uggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
Just now, Heme Doc said:

Anybody want to weigh in on the cluster RCT of masking in Bangladesh?

Looks like cloth masks didn't do shit, surgical masks helped.  Also the intervention included more than just handing out or wearing a mask, so the effect size may be smaller in real world, esp in places not called Bangladesh.  At least those were my big take aways. 

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Newdoc

Newdoc 3440

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, slorch said:

40ish, big dude, and in great health.

What does "big" mean? If his body composition is a fat percentage north of 20% then healthy should not be in the statement.

And aside from this guy, obesity has been lost in the national conversation. It is still a significant comorbidity for Covid complications and we have done an extreme disservice to the country by letting this take a back seat. 

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Heme Doc

Heme Doc 417

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Looks like cloth masks didn't do shit, surgical masks helped.  Also the intervention included more than just handing out or wearing a mask, so the effect size may be smaller in real world, esp in places not called Bangladesh.  At least those were my big take aways. 

Mine too.   This is the best data I’ve seen so far regarding effects of community masking.   Here’s the link to study that I forgot to include with first post.

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

1.  Cloth masks are just as worthless as doing nothing.  Not a surprise to me.  

2.  Surgical masks were better, with benefit limited to those age 50 and up

3.  Absolute risk reduction in symptomatic infection (serious problems as to how this is defined) was 1%.  It was about 8% of the control group clusters who got symptoms consistent with COVID and about 7% of intervention group.  So, clearly not a parachute.  All of this risk reduction was seen in people older than 50 and in the surgical mask groups (not cloth masks)

4.  Some confounders that intervention group also got education about distancing, etc. in addition to masks.

If one were to read this study and come away with the conclusion, “SEE, MASKS WORK!”, I would think they’re fairly simple minded without much critical thinking skill or nuance.  
 

I’d say that some mask policies probably help some in certain situations.  But more study is needed.  

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Heme Doc

Heme Doc 417

Posted
Posted
Just now, Heme Doc said:

Mine too.   This is the best data I’ve seen so far regarding effects of community masking.   Here’s the link to study that I forgot to include with first post.

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

1.  Cloth masks are just as worthless as doing nothing.  Not a surprise to me.  

2.  Surgical masks were better, with benefit limited to those age 50 and up

3.  Absolute risk reduction in symptomatic infection (serious problems as to how this is defined) was 1%.  It was about 8% of the control group clusters who got symptoms consistent with COVID and about 7% of intervention group.  So, clearly not a parachute.  All of this risk reduction was seen in people older than 50 and in the surgical mask groups (not cloth masks)

4.  Some confounders that intervention group also got education about distancing, etc. in addition to masks.

If one were to read this study and come away with the conclusion, “SEE, MASKS WORK!”, I would think they’re fairly simple minded without much critical thinking skill or nuance.  
 

I’d say that some mask policies probably help some in certain situations.  But more study is needed.  

Oh, and nobody was vaccinated when this study was done so we don’t know how that data would translate in a population of vaccinated people

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Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

What does "big" mean? If his body composition is a fat percentage north of 20% then healthy should not be in the statement.

And aside from this guy, obesity has been lost in the national conversation. It is still a significant comorbidity for Covid complications and we have done an extreme disservice to the country by letting this take a back seat. 

Means  he’s 6’6” or so.  Not fatty…

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midtown

midtown 3345

Posted
Posted
Presumably but TBD. It's probably non linear, and maybe there's some count threshold where the protection falls off a cliff. It seems strange to me to see a number in the hundreds and rush to get a booster. Per google, the vaccinated immune compromised get S-Test results of 0. 
The FAQ states that the correlation between antibodies and infection is not known. My understanding is that it's the T & B cells that are the magic.
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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11049

Posted
Posted

 

Question for the surl hive mind:

I've heard of people and have a few friends who have lied and said their kids were twelve to get them vaxxed. How dangerous, (il)legal, (im)moral is such a practice?

If its no big deal, how much younger than 12 are talking? a month? 6 months? a year?

Asking for me, a father of an 11 year old who lives in an area with a vax rate below national average and where nobody masks.

 

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NAVY

NAVY 6740

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Question for the surl hive mind:

I've heard of people and have a few friends who have lied and said their kids were twelve to get them vaxxed. How dangerous, (il)legal, (im)moral is such a practice?

If its no big deal, how much younger than 12 are talking? a month? 6 months? a year?

Asking for me, a father of an 11 year old who lives in an area with a vax rate below national average and where nobody masks.

 

I'm in the same boat (11 year old kid). Our next door neighbor is a pediatrician and she believes under 12 vax will happen inside the next 2 months. 

Hang in there

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dcar00

dcar00 14205

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

Mine too.   This is the best data I’ve seen so far regarding effects of community masking.   Here’s the link to study that I forgot to include with first post.

https://www.poverty-action.org/sites/default/files/publications/Mask_RCT____Symptomatic_Seropositivity_083121.pdf

1.  Cloth masks are just as worthless as doing nothing.  Not a surprise to me.  

2.  Surgical masks were better, with benefit limited to those age 50 and up

3.  Absolute risk reduction in symptomatic infection (serious problems as to how this is defined) was 1%.  It was about 8% of the control group clusters who got symptoms consistent with COVID and about 7% of intervention group.  So, clearly not a parachute.  All of this risk reduction was seen in people older than 50 and in the surgical mask groups (not cloth masks)

4.  Some confounders that intervention group also got education about distancing, etc. in addition to masks.

If one were to read this study and come away with the conclusion, “SEE, MASKS WORK!”, I would think they’re fairly simple minded without much critical thinking skill or nuance.  
 

I’d say that some mask policies probably help some in certain situations.  But more study is needed.  

it has and always has been marginal effect.  the mask does prevent people from talking as much and generally you reflexively keep distance which can help.   for people 15 and older I'm in the it doesn't really do much but OK whatever camp(it should probably be an N95 or nothing though).  the bigger problem in my opinion is doing it to the elementary and middle schoolers especially if teachers are vaccinated.

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dcar00

dcar00 14205

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Question for the surl hive mind:

I've heard of people and have a few friends who have lied and said their kids were twelve to get them vaxxed. How dangerous, (il)legal, (im)moral is such a practice?

If its no big deal, how much younger than 12 are talking? a month? 6 months? a year?

Asking for me, a father of an 11 year old who lives in an area with a vax rate below national average and where nobody masks.

 

I think you already know what you are going to do, so you should just do it.

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