COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[Chopper 17230]

My parents basically asked to get covid. Over new year they flew from CA to Miami, stayed at a hotel on Miami Beach, took a week's cruise to the Bahamas, returning to Miami and then back to CA. They're both fully vaxxed and boostered, and in their 80s. Minor symptoms for both, discovered and diagnosed upon return home.

The ER doc who lives next door tells me over 90 percent of the covid-related patients he sees in the ER are totally unvaccinated and that matches the statistics I've read.

edit to add - they were on the same ship that absconded to the Bahamas instead of the planned final destination of Miami so the owner could escape getting the ship impounded due to unpaid fuel bills. That was the sailing just after my parents'. Crystal, I think.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Chopper

[Surly Bevo 24908]

I feel I am very much at the point of "fuck those dumbasses" BUT it does beg the question of if that approach is ok here then........

[Patron 230]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

Got our 4 tests in the mail today.

Seems stupid.  Haven't needed one this whole time...

Send some coupons for brisket or some shit.

Why did you order the tests if its stupid.

[achooloco 1067]

On 1/23/2022 at 12:01 PM, South Austin said:

It’s hard for him to make words with a binkie in his mouth.

 

On 1/23/2022 at 12:15 PM, slorch said:

Preggers, hubs, and now the brekky?

 

On 1/23/2022 at 1:27 PM, Liquor and Poker said:

 

Sesh.  Periph.  It all makes me ragey.  Oh, and "ragey."

 

On 1/24/2022 at 12:25 PM, texasdago said:

I didn't know TXSooner was Australian

 

On 1/24/2022 at 12:38 PM, TXSooner518 said:

Ha! It’s a fun one to toss in on occasion esp in a non serious context. I can see how someone (non-Aussie) relentlessly using it would be pretty irritating.

Little late and while I’ve had my fare share of euphemisms, abbreviations, and minced oaths in my day, I sweatagod I’ve never heard of “brekky” till this thread.

[Burt 4080]

8 hours ago, slorch said:

Got our 4 tests in the mail today.

Seems stupid.  Haven't needed one this whole time...

Send some coupons for brisket or some shit.

Haven't needed one since this all began either.  Got ours in the mail Saturday. Started showing symptoms Saturday night.  Tested positive Monday morning.

[Hefeweizen 5311]

3 hours ago, Burt said:

Haven't needed one since this all began either.  Got ours in the mail Saturday. Started showing symptoms Saturday night.  Tested positive Monday morning.

Hah, proof that the tests cause infection!

 

I've had close contact now with at least 10 infected with Omicron since Jan 1 and been negative, but I'm one of the N95 mask wearing pussies with the full course of vaccines and booster.  It's been nice having no illness for 2 years now...

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Patron said:

Why did you order the tests if its stupid.

We did not.

They were sent to everyone.  There was zero solicitation on our part.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Hah, proof that the tests cause infection!

 

I've had close contact now with at least 10 infected with Omicron since Jan 1 and been negative, but I'm one of the N95 mask wearing pussies with the full course of vaccines and booster.  It's been nice having no illness for 2 years now...

and that has been the benefit of this whole ordeal. Cleaner work environments and people generally stay the fuck away from you now.

[Homercles 10205]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

We did not.

They were sent to everyone.  There was zero solicitation on our part.

No they weren’t.  You had to go to the website and request them.  Where’d you hear that?

[South Austin 52463]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

We did not.

They were sent to everyone.  There was zero solicitation on our part.

I think you’re confusing COVID tests with STD tests. The latter were automatically sent to all Tech grads.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

I think you’re confusing COVID tests with STD tests. The latter were automatically sent to all Tech grads.

Pregancy would be more useful.😁

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Homercles said:

No they weren’t.  You had to go to the website and request them.  Where’d you hear that?

We requested nothing. Trust me.

[El Tri 412]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

We did not.

They were sent to everyone.  There was zero solicitation on our part.

you're full of shit. you had to actually go to usps.com and order them. maybe your wife has more sense than you

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, El Tri said:

you're full of shit. you had to actually go to usps.com and order them. maybe your wife has more sense than you

She does buy a lot of shit we don’t need, so point conceded.

FTR, not being deceitful, but texting now to see why the F she ordered them, if so.

 

[Guest]

@Homercles @El Tri

y’all are right. i am wrong.

Must be ordered through USPS.

Her work will accept home tests.  Mine does not.

Edited February 1, 2022 by slorch

[Guest Lobo]

I like how Government Conspiracy, Surly Prank, Big Pharma Direct Marketing Campaign, USPS Bureaucrat Mistake, Biden Overreach, etc.  Those were all more plausible reasons that you received tests in the mail, than a simple, "Maybe my great wife did something nice for the family."  

If you ever make your own "Jump to Conclusions" mat...I'm in on the Seed Round.   

[woohorn 1131]

Sure, we receive unsolicited mail in voting ballots all the time, but actually have to request covid tests? What is wrong with our republic??

I have never been sick or covid tested, but I sure as hell requested tests. The only chance I have of getting any government cheese for my quarterly tax payments.

[Bookman 4639]

I requested the tests because why the fuck not?

[Anastasis 23469]

An "interesting" authorization strategy for the pediatric indication of the PFE vaccine. This is going to stir up some shit.

 

 

https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/02/worry-vaccinating-under-5-could-backfire/

The Food and Drug Administration’s willingness to consider authorizing a Covid-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer and BioNTech for children under the age of 5 — without evidence yet that it would be protective — is raising concerns among some vaccine experts who fear the plan could backfire and undermine vaccine uptake in this group.

Pfizer and BioNTech confirmed Tuesday that they had been asked by the FDA to submit an application for the use of a two-dose vaccine in children 6 months to 4 years old. Data on a third shot would be submitted to regulators once they became available in the spring — ostensibly clearing the way for the agency to authorize a three-shot regimen for the youngest children who can get vaccinated. 

If the two-dose series is authorized by the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, potentially sometime this month, parents who want to vaccinate children under 5 could begin to do so before Pfizer has proven that the vaccine is protective for this entire age group — something that doesn’t normally happen.

“It’s certainly a creative approach to trying to address the urgency that FDA and the White House is hearing from parents … for making these vaccines available for this younger age group,” said Jason Schwartz, an assistant professor of health policy at the Yale School of Public Health.

“But … the stakes are high and they’re never higher than for vaccines in this youngest age group, both for their effects on this vaccine and the effects on childhood vaccination and vaccine confidence generally.”

Pfizer announced before Christmas that in a clinical trial of children aged 2 to 4 years old, two doses of vaccine failed to generate antibody levels on par with those seen in people aged 16 to 25 after two shots. Paradoxically, two doses given to infants aged 6 months to 23 months did generate antibody levels similar to those seen in the 16- to 25-year-olds, levels that are deemed to equate with protection.

In both groups of little kids, the vaccines appeared to be safe and the side effect profile was tolerable. Side effects included fever and chills, which are not uncommon reactions to vaccines in early childhood. 

The companies decided to test whether adding a third dose would raise antibody levels to required levels. But the data from the modified trial aren’t expected until late March and the FDA appears to be unwilling to wait until then. A source told STAT that the agency’s independent vaccine expert panel, the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, will meet Feb. 15 to review the data Pfizer is submitting with this application.

The idea of authorizing use of the first two doses while the third-dose data are pending is being framed as a way to allow parents eager to vaccinate children 4 and under to get a head start on the process, with a third dose to follow after review of the results of that part of the study.

None of the experts STAT spoke to for this article could recall a precedent for this approach. And several worried going down this path could erode willingness on the part of parents of young children to get them vaccinated. To date only about 20% of children aged 5 to 11 have received two doses of vaccine, according to CDC data.

“I don’t think authorizing two doses in children ages 2 to 4 years of age where effectiveness in this age group hasn’t been confirmed is going to convince the majority of parents to vaccinate their children,” said Norman Baylor, president and CEO of Biologics Consulting and a former head of the FDA’s Office of Vaccines. “If the vaccine in this age cohort is a three-dose vaccine, FDA should review the data from the three-dose series before authorizing the vaccine.”

In a poll released Monday by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 31% of parents of young children said they intend to have them vaccinated as soon as they are able. But 26% said they would not vaccinate children under the age of 5. A further 12% said they would only vaccinate their children if they were required to and 29% said they would take a “wait and see” approach.

Baylor said those results suggest following normal procedures would make more sense here. “The question is, where’s the fire?” he asked. “I think we can take a little time. If that third dose data is available in March, that’s not that long now.”

Schwartz has a vaccinated 8-year-old and a 2-year-old who was home from day care on Tuesday because a teacher tested positive for Covid. He suggested expediting the process for children 4 and younger will be welcomed by some parents, but won’t lead to a flood of vaccinated kids.

“To the extent that this is moving the clock ahead just by a few months, I think we should recognize that it will be a pretty limited number of families who will jump at this opportunity in the way that I have and in the way I probably would, depending on what the data look like,” he said.

Saad Omer, director of Yale University’s Institute for Global Health, said he understands concerns about what pursuing this plan could do to vaccine hesitancy among parents who aren’t convinced of the need to vaccinate children against Covid or the safety of the vaccines. But at this point, his expectations for vaccine uptake rates in children are not high.

“Childhood immunization coverage [for Covid] isn’t stellar anyway,” Omer said. “I don’t think this will particularly dent it.” 

Likewise, he wasn’t too concerned that this approach will provide ammunition to the burgeoning anti-vaccination movement. “The bottom line is contrarians will do what they do. That’s their schtick,” Omer said. “And anti-vaccine people will do what they always do.”

Malia Jones, an epidemiologist who teaches at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and who specializes in vaccine hesitancy, said it has been clear for a while that getting children vaccinated against Covid is going to be an uphill battle. She worries that the low level of confidence in Covid vaccines for children will erode parental support for other vaccines. “This is the thing that keeps me up at night,” she said.

“I think already it’s kind of a disaster for vaccine uptake in kids,” Jones said of the prospects for persuading parents to vaccinate their children against Covid and whether the FDA’s approach here will influence them. “Is it throwing gasoline on a dumpster fire? Maybe. But it was already a dumpster fire.”

Edited February 2, 2022 by Anastasis

[52-80 19150]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

An "interesting" authorization strategy for the pediatric indication of the PFE vaccine. Sounds This is going to stir up some shit.

ironically, socialist norway with emphasis on individual liberty, despite sharing of health services

[Samson's Wig 3191]

"HIgh vaccination coverage among adults" and "accessible and equal access to health services for everyone" seem to be two very important qualifying phrases from that Norway info.  Those two thing shift the equation quite a bit from what we're dealing with here. 

[Samson's Wig 3191]

So this email was sent this morning, with CC's for anyone who ever took this woman's dance class.  Names and locations redacted for one reason or another.   Has to be a top 5 all time crazy-town resignation letter.  The bolded segments are the author's literary choice, not mine.   

Maybe this should be its own thread, but holy shit I couldn't believe it when my wife showed it to me.  People like this walk among us.  She was teaching a class full of mostly Jewish women for seven years, and this is what was festering internally. 

 

Dear Rabbi ************,   I never thought in my 7 years of building a dance community at the JCC that I would be persecuted. I thought that I had immersed myself in a people with strong beliefs and moral upstanding.  I liked the idea of supporting and loving the ******* Jewish community.   As “employees”, we were told that you would follow the Supreme Court decisions around OSHA Covid 19 vaccine mandates. We were led to believe that you would follow the Supreme Court's decisions.  I learned that you decided to override these decisions last Friday, five days ago.   I am able to get a medical exception, but I will not take an exemption because that would mean that I join the JCC in persecuting the unvaccinated.   If this debate arose six months ago, when people believed that the vaccine blocked transmission of the disease, we would be having a different conversation. Now we know that vaccinations do not block the transmission of the disease, they instead reduce symptoms from the disease, hospital stays, etc.   From what I understand, the statement that you “mandate that all employees are vaccinated“ is designed to give apprehensive members a feeling of security around attending the JCC fitness facility.  But, you must know that 100 percent safety can never be promised because both vaccinated and unvaccinated members and employees can all transmit the disease.  You could extend the mandate further to require members to be vaccinated, but it would make no difference at all. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can transmit the disease. This mandate achieves no safety benefits, it just further divides our deeply divided country.   I am asking you to take a step back and consider this comparison- the process of persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany and current persecution of the unvaccinated (UNVXD) in our country.   Steps   1) DEMONIZATION Jews portrayed as selfish, greedy, evil and diseased   UNVXD portrayed as selfish, stupid, evil and diseased 2) LIVELIHOOD DESTROYED All Jewish businesses were destroyed, all Jewish employees fired   UNVXD fired for their belief system 3) ENCAMPMENT Jews sent Auschwitz, Dachau, and too many to list   UNVXD encampment programs in Australia 4) EXTERMINATION Jews- more than 6 million killed and millions more lives destroyed   UNVXD- In our current political climate, it is acceptable   for public figures to say that the UNVXD deserve to die.

 

Do you see the similarities in these paths?  Not the end result, that is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about the path.

 

I have never understood how the Germans citizens sat back and let ANY of this happen to the Jews.

Not even step 1 is ok.

How did no one speak up?  I'll tell you something- I would have and I am now.

And I am sacrificing everything I have worked for to speak up on behalf of the unvaccinated who can't get a medical exemption.

 

Rabbi *********- do you really want to be a part of this?

I believe that you don't.

I believe you strive for unity and want to respect all individuals.

I believe with good intentions you set this mandate based on old information

and I am asking you to step back and look at current circumstances and change your mind.

 

I have spent 7 years at the JCC developing a dance community.

I have dozens of letters from dancers who tell me that my class has changed their life, that my class has helped them ride out their darkest days.

This class brings me so much joy and I have put my heart and soul into it.

And I will sacrifice it all to stand with the persecuted.

 

Lastly, I would ask you to consider how you would feel if this mandate forced someone to get vaccinated

and the person was either injured or killed by the vaccine?  There is a very small risk, but the risk is there.

Here is a website to show the totals if you do not want to got to VAERS-

 

https://marktaliano.net/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-01-21-2022/

 

I would never want that kind of responsibility and I don't believe you would either.

 

Rabbi ************ - Please change this mandate. 

 

Sincerely,

 

*********

Edited February 2, 2022 by Samson's Wig

[Dahobbs 17534]

Exterminating the unvaccinated (through vaccination) seems like an ideal result for any disease. 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

5 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

"Fewer fatties and less beetus seem to be two very important qualifying phrases from that Norway info.  Those two thing shift the equation quite a bit from what we're dealing with here. 

FIFY.

[Skipper 6133]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:24 AM, Anastasis said:

An "interesting" authorization strategy for the pediatric indication of the PFE vaccine. This is going to stir up some shit.

 

This seems pretty ridiculous to me. 

 If I have this straight:

First, the initial study didn't even look at actual benefit (lower infection rate or severity) but rather it looked at antibody levels.  The study failed to show a material increase in antibody levels after 2 shots.   So Pfizer decides maybe they need 3 shots.   That study is ongoing.

So the plan is to authorize 2 shots in this age group with no known benefit (infections, severity or event antibody levels) with the hope that 3 shots improves antibody levels?  What if it doesn't.

Maybe instead of pushing a 2 year old vax against an old variant in the absolute lowest risk population, the focus should be on messaging to nervous parents (which I know several) that they are materially higher risk fully vaccinated compared to their unvaccinated 3 year old.  My wife has a friend who's 4 year old has had it twice, no big deal either time, and they can't wait to get her vaccinated.  That is an absolute failure of public health messaging in my view.  

If they were pushing to authorize this for the immunocompromised in this age group I could understand that.   But otherwise this kind of no-evidence approach to vaccination (to solve what exactly?) absolutely fuels anti-vax sentiment.

[Samson's Wig 3191]

14 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

FIFY.

Also true.

[52-80 19150]

“With the omicron variant, kids are either going to get the vaccine or they're likely to get a serious condition of omicron,” Dr. Emanuel [US Covid advisory board] says. https://on.msnbc.com/3rqT2Z1

 

 

is this true?

[Caponata 151]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

“With the omicron variant, kids are either going to get the vaccine or they're likely to get a serious condition of omicron,” Dr. Emanuel [US Covid advisory board] says. https://on.msnbc.com/3rqT2Z1

 

 

is this true?

No. Scaremongering like that is so fucking irresponsible. 

[South Austin 52463]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:47 PM, Samson's Wig said:

So this email was sent this morning, with CC's for anyone who ever took this woman's dance class.  Names and locations redacted for one reason or another.   Has to be a top 5 all time crazy-town resignation letter.  The bolded segments are the author's literary choice, not mine.   

Maybe this should be its own thread, but holy shit I couldn't believe it when my wife showed it to me.  People like this walk among us.  She was teaching a class full of mostly Jewish women for seven years, and this is what was festering internally. 

 

Dear Rabbi ************,   I never thought in my 7 years of building a dance community at the JCC that I would be persecuted. I thought that I had immersed myself in a people with strong beliefs and moral upstanding.  I liked the idea of supporting and loving the ******* Jewish community.   As “employees”, we were told that you would follow the Supreme Court decisions around OSHA Covid 19 vaccine mandates. We were led to believe that you would follow the Supreme Court's decisions.  I learned that you decided to override these decisions last Friday, five days ago.   I am able to get a medical exception, but I will not take an exemption because that would mean that I join the JCC in persecuting the unvaccinated.   If this debate arose six months ago, when people believed that the vaccine blocked transmission of the disease, we would be having a different conversation. Now we know that vaccinations do not block the transmission of the disease, they instead reduce symptoms from the disease, hospital stays, etc.   From what I understand, the statement that you “mandate that all employees are vaccinated“ is designed to give apprehensive members a feeling of security around attending the JCC fitness facility.  But, you must know that 100 percent safety can never be promised because both vaccinated and unvaccinated members and employees can all transmit the disease.  You could extend the mandate further to require members to be vaccinated, but it would make no difference at all. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can transmit the disease. This mandate achieves no safety benefits, it just further divides our deeply divided country.   I am asking you to take a step back and consider this comparison- the process of persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany and current persecution of the unvaccinated (UNVXD) in our country.   Steps   1) DEMONIZATION Jews portrayed as selfish, greedy, evil and diseased   UNVXD portrayed as selfish, stupid, evil and diseased 2) LIVELIHOOD DESTROYED All Jewish businesses were destroyed, all Jewish employees fired   UNVXD fired for their belief system 3) ENCAMPMENT Jews sent Auschwitz, Dachau, and too many to list   UNVXD encampment programs in Australia 4) EXTERMINATION Jews- more than 6 million killed and millions more lives destroyed   UNVXD- In our current political climate, it is acceptable   for public figures to say that the UNVXD deserve to die.

 

Do you see the similarities in these paths?  Not the end result, that is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about the path.

 

I have never understood how the Germans citizens sat back and let ANY of this happen to the Jews.

Not even step 1 is ok.

How did no one speak up?  I'll tell you something- I would have and I am now.

And I am sacrificing everything I have worked for to speak up on behalf of the unvaccinated who can't get a medical exemption.

 

Rabbi *********- do you really want to be a part of this?

I believe that you don't.

I believe you strive for unity and want to respect all individuals.

I believe with good intentions you set this mandate based on old information

and I am asking you to step back and look at current circumstances and change your mind.

 

I have spent 7 years at the JCC developing a dance community.

I have dozens of letters from dancers who tell me that my class has changed their life, that my class has helped them ride out their darkest days.

This class brings me so much joy and I have put my heart and soul into it.

And I will sacrifice it all to stand with the persecuted.

 

Lastly, I would ask you to consider how you would feel if this mandate forced someone to get vaccinated

and the person was either injured or killed by the vaccine?  There is a very small risk, but the risk is there.

Here is a website to show the totals if you do not want to got to VAERS-

 

https://marktaliano.net/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-01-21-2022/

 

I would never want that kind of responsibility and I don't believe you would either.

 

Rabbi ************ - Please change this mandate. 

 

Sincerely,

 

*********

How do you say Karen in Yiddish? 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

“With the omicron variant, kids are either going to get the vaccine or they're likely to get a serious condition of omicron,” Dr. Emanuel [US Covid advisory board] says. https://on.msnbc.com/3rqT2Z1

 

 

is this true?

Misinformation 

[Brisketexan 105095]

2 hours ago, South Austin said:

How do you say Karen in Yiddish? 

Same way, just with more throat phlegm intonation. 

[Skipper 6133]

7 hours ago, 52-80 said:

“With the omicron variant, kids are either going to get the vaccine or they're likely to get a serious condition of omicron,” Dr. Emanuel [US Covid advisory board] says. https://on.msnbc.com/3rqT2Z1

 

 

is this true?

Holy shit.  This is the kind of fear mongering bullshit I'm talking about.   Literally zero evidence of that.   If Rogan is getting flagged for misinformation this shit should as well.   Absolutely just as bad.

[Samson's Wig 3191]

Meh.  Poorly worded for sure, but if you watch the entire segment you won't react so strongly (unless you're politically inclined to do so).  For an MSNBC segment, that guy was about as middle of the road as you're going to get, and the context was discussing the new FDA approval of vaccines for those under 5 years old.  Cherry picking a guy like that is no different than cherry picking Rogan, except one of them is actually an expert on something and the other is an entertainer who shouldn't be taken seriously (by his own admission).  He was clearly trying to convey that it is clear if a kid 5 and up gets covid, it will be a less serious infection if they're vaccinated than if they're not.  It only becomes fear mongering when people take it out of context and spread it around the internet to score some kind of weird political points.

[Captainant 27654]

21 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Holy shit.  This is the kind of fear mongering bullshit I'm talking about.   Literally zero evidence of that.   If Rogan is getting flagged for misinformation this shit should as well.   Absolutely just as bad.

I think it's worth reflection on what you're getting so OUTRAGED(!!!!) about here bud.

You're equivocating a single sentence in an interview to literally dozens of hours of promoting COVID conspiracy and disinformation.

You seem to have a bias to equivocate a binary sense of if something happened or not, while completely ignoring the volume, scope, and duration of the thing you (claim) to be concerned about.

This is intellectually dishonest bothsiderism. I'd expect it from annie but not you dude

[Don Johnson 4753]

8 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

 It only becomes fear mongering when people take it out of context and spread it around the internet to score some kind of weird political points.

MSNBC is the network he was on and the one that cherry picked the quote and tweeted it out multiple times.

 

[Storm the Field 5294]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:47 AM, Storm the Field said:

7-day case average down to 596K, which is still very high, but down significantly from 802K 2 Fridays ago.

Week later update: 378K/day.

[ABSR 5309]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

How do you say Karen in Yiddish? 

Yenta 

[Skipper 6133]

20 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's worth reflection on what you're getting so OUTRAGED(!!!!) about here bud.

You're equivocating a single sentence in an interview to literally dozens of hours of promoting COVID conspiracy and disinformation.

You seem to have a bias to equivocate a binary sense of if something happened or not, while completely ignoring the volume, scope, and duration of the thing you (claim) to be concerned about.

This is intellectually dishonest bothsiderism. I'd expect it from annie but not you dude

I'm outraged because this dude is on the US Covid response team.  And he made a false statement that was disseminated widely by mainstream media.  And it's in the context of supporting pediatric vaccination policies that are absolutely unprecedented, literally no basis in science, and I think will do major damage to the pediatric vaccination rate of vaccines that matter in the near term. 

I think we've flat out slipped down the slippery slope in a 'what's the harm' approach to scaring people into pediatric vaccinations and I don't think joe public is necessarily as dumb as they think they are considering the millions of kids that have had zero problem with COVID.

As for my reference to Rogan, I don't listen to him and never would have known about the nutjob on his podcast but for self righteous outrage from celebrities doing what they do.  So yeah, I do want equal outrage for fear mongering false statements.  This doctor should go on other mainstream media ASAP and publicly correct his comment or he loses all credibility IMO.

[Samson's Wig 3191]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

MSNBC is the network he was on and the one that cherry picked the quote and tweeted it out multiple times.

 

And that, I agree, is fear mongering nonsense.

[Dahobbs 17534]

4 hours ago, Skipper said:

I'm outraged because this dude is on the US Covid response team.  And he made a false statement that was disseminated widely by mainstream media.  And it's in the context of supporting pediatric vaccination policies that are absolutely unprecedented, literally no basis in science, and I think will do major damage to the pediatric vaccination rate of vaccines that matter in the near term. 

I think we've flat out slipped down the slippery slope in a 'what's the harm' approach to scaring people into pediatric vaccinations and I don't think joe public is necessarily as dumb as they think they are considering the millions of kids that have had zero problem with COVID.

As for my reference to Rogan, I don't listen to him and never would have known about the nutjob on his podcast but for self righteous outrage from celebrities doing what they do.  So yeah, I do want equal outrage for fear mongering false statements.  This doctor should go on other mainstream media ASAP and publicly correct his comment or he loses all credibility IMO.

WOAH there buddy. That's simply not true. He was supporting vaccination for kids 5 and older, which is pretty fricking reasonable. He wasn't supporting the policy of rushing approval for kids between 2 and 5. 

[Skipper 6133]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

WOAH there buddy. That's simply not true. He was supporting vaccination for kids 5 and older, which is pretty fricking reasonable. He wasn't supporting the policy of rushing approval for kids between 2 and 5. 

You are right I mixed the 2 issues.  Although his statement was "kids are going to get the vaccine or get a serious condition".  So I think anyone that reads the tweet that made headlines isn't going to distinguish a 4 from a 5 year old "kid".     I actually don't think it's a 'no brainer' for that population either unless immunocompromised or other condition that would increase risk of a more severe outcome.   If there is a study or data that proven otherwise would love to see it.  We haven't decided yet for our recently turned 5 year old that is healthy (as far as we know). Particularly given I'm 50/50 we all had Omicron in December.  If we don't get it otherwise and Texas cares test (which should be coming up soon) reflects we didn't have it, we will likely get him vaccinated with 1 or doses spaced out.   But also don't understand why it hasn't yet received full FDA approval in that age group and still under EUA.

[Dahobbs 17534]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

WOAH there buddy. That's simply not true. He was supporting vaccination for kids 5 and older, which is pretty fricking reasonable. He wasn't supporting the policy of rushing approval for kids between 2 and 5. 

I'll also reiterate that if you actually watch the interview, it seemed pretty clear that he misspoke. I wish the interviewer had asked a follow up question to clarify his response. From the way he said it and from his prior statements, I'm confident he doesn't think that everyone kid will either get the vaccine or get seriously ill. I absolutely agree that he should be notified of the issue (assuming he hasn't been already) and that both him and the network should clarify, because it is the type of statement that could unintentionally set off a panic. 

[Dahobbs 17534]

Just now, Skipper said:

You are right I mixed the 2 issues.  Although his statement was "kids are going to get the vaccine or get a serious condition".  So I think anyone that reads the tweet that made headlines isn't going to distinguish a 4 from a 5 year old "kid".     I actually don't think it's a 'no brainer' for that population either unless immunocompromised or other condition that would increase risk of a more severe outcome.   If there is a study or data that proven otherwise would love to see it.  We haven't decided yet for our recently turned 5 year old that is healthy (as far as we know). Particularly given I'm 50/50 we all had Omicron in December.  If we don't get it otherwise and Texas cares test (which should be coming up soon) reflects we didn't have it, we will likely get him vaccinated with 1 or doses spaced out.   But also don't understand why it hasn't yet received full FDA approval in that age group and still under EUA.

I agree his statement was false. As I said above, I think he misspoke. Unfortunately the interview was short and there was no follow up. 

I do understand there being some hesitancy for kids under 12. The way I look at it, the vaccines are incredibly safe (and we have oodles of data on that now) compared to the known potential for Covid to cause serious illness even in younger children. For both the vaccine and Covid we also have some unknowns as to potential long term complications. But based on what we know about both the vaccine and infection, it almost assured that the vaccine has lower long term risks than infection without protection. Based on all that, for me, I thought it was a no brainer to vaccinate my 5-year old. I don't blame a parent for wanting to wait for a bit more information. But ultimately I think that is an overly cautious approach to vaccination. 

[Skipper 6133]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Based on all that, for me, I thought it was a no brainer to vaccinate my 5-year old. I don't blame a parent for wanting to wait for a bit more information. But ultimately I think that is an overly cautious approach to vaccination. 

I don't disagree.  Where we are at now is if we did have Omicron which I lean toward likely (we only tested 1 kid once with rapid test first day of symptoms, now know should have tested day 2 as well), then I really don't see much of a benefit.

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

If your intent is to say that anyone, including the very young, are less likely to catch a severe case of Covid if they are vaccinated, then that’s what you say.  It would be even better if you can parse some data to indicate the risk of a serious case in the very young vs other age groups, so that the relative risk mitigation is apparent. 
 

we need to be able to understand the information people are putting out there, especially those credentialed such as that guy is, without translation or interpretation. 
 

otherwise it’s misinformation, intentional or not. 

[statsman 5457]

I’m curious about the Israel data. I believe they are using the Pfizer vaccine and that over 95% are vaccinated. Their omicron cases are spiking (no surprise), but so are deaths. Is there something else going on, some prevalent comorbidities, driving deaths up? Or is it just that so damned many people are getting the omicron that this is the mathematical result?

For perspective, prorated for population, their 9k Covid deaths would equate to 360k for us, less than half of what we have. Their 25 daily deaths equate to 1k for us, again less than half of where we are. 
 

(I guess the data says that if we had more vaccinated, we would have had a lot less die, and continue to die, but there would still be a lot dying, right?)

Edited February 7, 2022 by statsman

[Dahobbs 17534]

5 hours ago, statsman said:

I’m curious about the Israel data. I believe they are using the Pfizer vaccine and that over 95% are vaccinated.

Where do you see that Israel is 95% vaccinated? 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/once-a-world-leader-israel-lags-behind-on-covid-vaccinations-1.10465031

Quote

Dec. 15, 2021

40 percent of Israelis have no protection against COVID omicron variant: 1 million refused the booster while just 110,000 out of 1.2 million young kids got the vaccine

* * *

According to the Health Ministry, as of Saturday just over 58 percent of eligible Israelis over the age of five are fully vaccinated, meaning that they have received three doses or are within a six-month window following their second dose. A further 9.3 percent are double-vaccinated but have allowed more than six months to pass without getting a booster shot, while 32.4 percent are unvaccinated.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/israel-embarks-on-fourth-covid-vaccination-campaign

Quote

Tue 4 Jan 2022

Despite an initial world-leading vaccination programme, vaccine hesitancy within the ultra-Orthodox and Arab communities means that only around 70% of Israel’s 9.3 million residents has received two doses of vaccine to date.

 

[statsman 5457]

Oh, hell. I saw a stat that said 98.5% were fully vaccinated, based on the number of shots given. I backed that off some, knowing that a lot of Israelis had four shots. I now see that there are two cohorts- those vaccinated a lot (up to four shots) and those not vaccinated at all. 
 

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/unvaccinated-vs-boostered-what-the-covid-death-toll-from-israel-reveals-1.10586137

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

On 2/4/2022 at 4:38 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

If your intent is to say that anyone, including the very young, are less likely to catch a severe case of Covid if they are vaccinated, then that’s what you say.  It would be even better if you can parse some data to indicate the risk of a serious case in the very young vs other age groups, so that the relative risk mitigation is apparent. 
 

we need to be able to understand the information people are putting out there, especially those credentialed such as that guy is, without translation or interpretation. 
 

otherwise it’s misinformation, intentional or not. 

Agreed. I think one of the more obvious mistakes our public health leaders have made is to discuss everything in absolutes. The mortality risk is clearly driven by several factors, age clearly #1 and obesity #2. Similarly around masks acting like a two-year old "Sexy Mama" cloth math from Wal-Mart is as effective as an N95 ... at least people finally are acknowledging that Fauci was correct day one.

I would speculate this has had some unintended consequences:

• The people on the poles are probably not going to change their behavior
• The people in the middle who take the time to look at data start to scratch their heads and start to question what they're being told

[Dahobbs 17534]

55 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

Agreed. I think one of the more obvious mistakes our public health leaders have made is to discuss everything in absolutes. The mortality risk is clearly driven by several factors, age clearly #1 and obesity #2. Similarly around masks acting like a two-year old "Sexy Mama" cloth math from Wal-Mart is as effective as an N95 ... at least people finally are acknowledging that Fauci was correct day one.

I would speculate this has had some unintended consequences:

• The people on the poles are probably not going to change their behavior
• The people in the middle who take the time to look at data start to scratch their heads and start to question what they're being told

What public health officials ever acted like cloth masks were equivalent to n95s? Don't make up shit. 

And, #1 on your list is vaccination at this point.