COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[Sawbonz 27565]

What is the rationale behind a booster at this point? The efficacy is down under 30% in terms of transmissibility. I’m not interested in feeling like shit for a few days bc of the booster to keep me from feeling like shit for a few days  bc of the virus. I still mask in the office and hospital which are my most likely places to be exposed but until they come up w a new batch I’m not interested in a booster 

[CooterBrown 18014]

My wife saw her doctor today and she said hold off on a 2nd booster because there will be an improved vaccine soon. Of course Mrs Brown failed to ask any follow up questions about that.

[South Austin 52515]

If the flu shot made me feel like absolute shit for two days (which is what shot Nos. 2 and 3 did to me) and didn’t really give me a great chance at avoiding the flu, I’d probably stop getting the flu shot.

This seems like the current state of the COVID vaccine versus the latest variant. So I’m not going to get a booster until there’s a vaccine that’s more effective with the latest strains, whatever those are.

 

[Skipper 6135]

24 minutes ago, South Austin said:

If the flu shot made me feel like absolute shit for two days (which is what shot Nos. 2 and 3 did to me) and didn’t really give me a great chance at avoiding the flu, I’d probably stop getting the flu shot.

This seems like the current state of the COVID vaccine versus the latest variant. So I’m not going to get a booster until there’s a vaccine that’s more effective with the latest strains, whatever those are.

 

And considering we're already on version #5 of Omicron who knows if the OG Omicron booster being worked on will do much of anything by this fall.    Starting to seem like it might be a decent idea if you make it a full year without a booster or natural infection, but I'm certainly not in a big hurry to "boost" this fall after a May infection absent clear evidence whatever comes out reduces risk of transmission and even then I would likely wait until 2023.

[dcbc 14487]

9 hours ago, South Austin said:

If the flu shot made me feel like absolute shit for two days (which is what shot Nos. 2 and 3 did to me) and didn’t really give me a great chance at avoiding the flu, I’d probably stop getting the flu shot.

This seems like the current state of the COVID vaccine versus the latest variant. So I’m not going to get a booster until there’s a vaccine that’s more effective with the latest strains, whatever those are.

 

Or this August before the kids go back to school, whichever comes first.

[Anastasis 23474]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:24 PM, Sawbonz said:

What is the rationale behind a booster at this point? The efficacy is down under 30% in terms of transmissibility. I’m not interested in feeling like shit for a few days bc of the booster to keep me from feeling like shit for a few days  bc of the virus. I still mask in the office and hospital which are my most likely places to be exposed but until they come up w a new batch I’m not interested in a booster 

Unless immunocompromise or an old I don’t see much value to another booster until they update the strain. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19103]

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Unless immunocompromise or an old I don’t see much value to another booster until they update the strain. 

I agree with this.  

[atomheartbevo 89685]

I'm hoping this is the one I can convince a few older un-vaccinated family members/friends to finally pull the trigger.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/07/health/novavax-covid-vaccine-fda/index.html

Quote

Vaccine advisers to the US Food and Drug Administration decided Tuesday that authorizing Novavax's Covid-19 vaccine -- which uses different technology from the three vaccines currently in use in the US -- for emergency use in adults would be beneficial.

Most of the FDA's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee voted "yes" in response to a question of whether the benefits of Novavax's vaccine, given as a two-dose primary series, outweigh its risks in people 18 and older, based on available evidence. Twenty-one members voted yes, one abstained, and none voted no.

Quote

If the full FDA gives the vaccine the green light, it will become the fourth Covid-19 vaccine authorized in the United States.

Novavax's vaccine is made using small laboratory-built pieces of the coronavirus to stimulate immunity. This protein-based approach is a more traditional one for vaccine development than the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.

There's that word "protein".  Incoming stupid shit from stupid family members.

Edited June 7, 2022 by atomheartbevo

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

Would you prefer peptide?

[DaysOff 7951]

I'm an amino acid guy.

[Anastasis 23474]

26 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Would you prefer peptide?

peptide or code?

 

[South Austin 52515]

Supposably, Moderna’s updated vaccine is showing a stronger immune response against Omicron.  It's targeting late summer for release.

Quote

Moderna said on Wednesday its bivalent Covid-19 vaccine booster that contained a vaccine targeting the Omicron variant showed a stronger immune response against the variant.

Bivalent boosters address two viral strains in the same vaccine. The updated booster contains Moderna's original vaccine, and a vaccine candidate that targets the Omicron variant.

The vaccine was generally well-tolerated, the company said, with side effects similar to booster doses of the current vaccine.

The 50-microgram bivalent booster, called mRNA-1273.214, generated a stronger antibody response against Omicron than the original Moderna vaccine. Omicron subvariants are driving virtually all the new Covid-19 cases in the United States right now.

CNN.com link

Edited June 11, 2022 by South Austin

[Homercles 10206]

^^ Good because I just got my CARES results from round 3 and it’s not great Bob.  
 

Moderna:  Feb 1, 2021 and Mar 5, 2021

Full strength booster:  August 25, 2021

Omicron infection (multiple at-home tests positive over multiple days):  Late January, 2022

S Protein:  211

N Protein: 0.2

Previously my spike results in Sept 2021 and Jan 2022 had been >2500.  Understanding I’m coming up on a year since I got my booster, was still hoping those numbers would be higher + my N results were technically below the threshold at 0.2 (had been 0 two prior draws).  
 

Been waiting on another booster for the fall and would prefer one more targeted at all the omicron variants.  

[SizzleChest 8284]

2 hours ago, Homercles said:

^^ Good because I just got my CARES results from round 3 and it’s not great Bob.  
 

Moderna:  Feb 1, 2021 and Mar 5, 2021

Full strength booster:  August 25, 2021

Omicron infection (multiple at-home tests positive over multiple days):  Late January, 2022

S Protein:  211

N Protein: 0.2

Previously my spike results in Sept 2021 and Jan 2022 had been >2500.  Understanding I’m coming up on a year since I got my booster, was still hoping those numbers would be higher + my N results were technically below the threshold at 0.2 (had been 0 two prior draws).  
 

Been waiting on another booster for the fall and would prefer one more targeted at all the omicron variants.  

My jabs align pretty closely with yours temporally, except I got a half booster in late Oct. ‘21 and another one in early May ‘22.  

Also had a Delta infection right after my first booster, but that infection apparently didn’t create any antibodies based on CARES results (last one in Feb ‘22). Or at least the assay didn’t detect them for some reason.

I can’t remember where I saw it, but I read a piece discussing people who were vaxxed (not MRNA specific, any vax), had a breakthrough infection, but didn’t produce C19 antibodies in response. The upshot was that scenarios like this actually result in stronger T and B cell response and longer lasting, more durable immunity overall.  Potentially for other types of viral infections as well.

I have no clue about any of this, but I’ll take it.

I’ve been living normally, maskless everywhere since January, so I’m sure I was exposed to Omicron at some point.

Edited June 11, 2022 by SizzleChest

[JBJ 3654]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:09 AM, South Austin said:

If the flu shot made me feel like absolute shit for two days (which is what shot Nos. 2 and 3 did to me) and didn’t really give me a great chance at avoiding the flu, I’d probably stop getting the flu shot.

This seems like the current state of the COVID vaccine versus the latest variant. So I’m not going to get a booster until there’s a vaccine that’s more effective with the latest strains, whatever those are.

 

I've never taken well to the flu shot, but started getting them again when I had kids.  They make me drag and feel under the weather for about a week.

The covid booster knocked me out a few days.  Felt it as soon as I left.  Fell asleep at home and didn't get up or eat anything for about 48 hours.  I don't think I'll get another.

[The Dog 44058]

Bit of a necrobump.

Got my Moderna booster in December '21 (reduced dose). Was supposed to get my third draw in March when I did my annual physical but was sick of getting poked so procrastinated until yesterday. 

N protein: Negative 

S protein: >2500 out of range

Think I'll wait on the second booster until they get the new variants in the cocktail. 

[Brisketexan 105152]

14 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Bit of a necrobump.

Got my Moderna booster in December '21 (reduced dose). Was supposed to get my third draw in March when I did my annual physical but was sick of getting poked so procrastinated until yesterday. 

N protein: Negative 

S protein: >2500 out of range

Think I'll wait on the second booster until they get the new variants in the cocktail. 

Same pattern with me, except I'm a Pfizer recipient.  Took me forever to get my last draw done, got it done two weeks ago.  Same outcome -- never infected, antibodies over 2500.  And I'm waiting on the second booster until they update (unless I have to travel overseas before then, then I might go ahead and get a Moderna booster -- doc said mix and match might be a good idea).

[Skipper 6135]

From what I've read there isn't a lot of confidence the OG Omicron booster slated for the fall is going to be materially better than the existing booster given the genetic drift of BA5.   Hopefully that doesn't turn out to be the case.

[The Dog 44058]

12 minutes ago, Skipper said:

From what I've read there isn't a lot of confidence the OG Omicron booster slated for the fall is going to be materially better than the existing booster given the genetic drift of BA5.   Hopefully that doesn't turn out to be the case.

officials from Moderna announced on Wednesday that data from its study on Omicron-containing bivalent booster, revealed that it offers superior antibody response against omicron – one month after injection - compared to the company's current vaccine.

where are you reading otherwise?

[Brisketexan 105152]

12 minutes ago, Skipper said:

From what I've read there isn't a lot of confidence the OG Omicron booster slated for the fall is going to be materially better than the existing booster given the genetic drift of BA5.   Hopefully that doesn't turn out to be the case.

We shall see.  We're still learning as we go with respect to what remains a relatively novel virus, and new approaches to vaccines.

[6th Street 6411]

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

Bit of a necrobump.

Got my Moderna booster in December '21 (reduced dose). Was supposed to get my third draw in March when I did my annual physical but was sick of getting poked so procrastinated until yesterday. 

N protein: Negative 

S protein: >2500 out of range

Think I'll wait on the second booster until they get the new variants in the cocktail. 

Thanks for posting. Made an antibody appt at King Soopers this afternoon since I'd prefer to wait until the fall for the new booster. Supposedly anything above 1,000 means solid antibodies. 

[Deej 76800]

36 minutes ago, The Dog said:

officials from Moderna announced on Wednesday that data from its study on Omicron-containing bivalent booster, revealed that it offers superior antibody response against omicron – one month after injection - compared to the company's current vaccine.

where are you reading otherwise?

I think they mean whatever version on Omicron we are on by the Fall. Yeah, it provides superior antibody response against OG Omicron, but will that even matter in three or four months? 

[Skipper 6135]

51 minutes ago, The Dog said:

officials from Moderna announced on Wednesday that data from its study on Omicron-containing bivalent booster, revealed that it offers superior antibody response against omicron – one month after injection - compared to the company's current vaccine.

where are you reading otherwise?

I would need to find a link but pretty sure all just speculation at this point. I believe that Moderna data is from the spring with BA1/2.    BA5 is just now taking over as the clear dominant variant.  I just don't think there is any data yet on how this booster stacks up but apparently the amount of continued drift has some that follow this stuff closely concerned the virus has changed too much.  At least for the vaccine to be a "game changer" for infections as hoped.

[Incredulity 11675]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

I think they mean whatever version on Omicron we are on by the Fall. Yeah, it provides superior antibody response against OG Omicron, but will that even matter in three or four months? 

there is zero chance there is ever a booster available designed to the most current variant.  This thing is mutating way to fast.

 

**not a doctor/ holiday inn...

[Murfdogg21 4412]

FDA needs to waive a lot of the testing requirements for vaccine updates customized to variants, because the regulatory time requirements are longer until we are on to the next variant. 
 

I posted a few days ago that we got covid omicron for the second time (mid February and last week) and it wasn’t bad, but I spoke too soon. My wife and I both got knocked on our ass for two days, and this was after we had mild symptoms, tested positive at home, then a few days later tested negative on PCR, then we got hit with terrible symptoms and tested positive again at home. 
 

I was always cautious about vaccinating my toddlers, but there is no way in fuck I’m doing it now if the vaccines are based on Covid alpha strain and actually having Covid Omicron four months ago only gives you limited immunity. There’s no benefit. FDA, be practical because 9 month approval process when we get a new variant every couple months is stupid as fuck. 

[dcbc 14487]

28 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

My wife and I both got knocked on our ass for two days, and this was after we had mild symptoms, tested positive at home, then a few days later tested negative on PCR, then we got hit with terrible symptoms and tested positive again at home. 

Oh, great.  Just as I was starting to feel better.  For us, it was I got it, and wife is a day or two behind me.  I had a shitty but manageable two days (mostly aches, chills, sweats at night), then increasingly better.  Day 5 now and feel mostly fine, if a bit fatigued occasionally.  Wife has fever, aches, congestion cough, fatigue, the works.  Manageable, but way worse presumably because of the spouse always getting it worse than patient zero who smelled the wrong fart at the grocery store for a second.  I'll be pissed if this thing doubles back on me during my victory lap.

Edited July 7, 2022 by dcbc

[orange dream 1254]

4th Texas Cares draw last Friday (7/29/2022)  S>2500   N=185.0

This is my history...

Had a mild case of Covid in October 2020

Pfizer/Pfizer back in Feb/March 2021

Texas CARES in early Sept 2021  S>2500   N=51

Texas CARES in early December 2021   S=1615   N=31

Boosted Moderna mid-December 2021

3rd Texas Cares draw on (3/30/2022)  S>2500   N=196.0

Jump in my N-antibodies between 2nd and 3rd draw must mean I had Covid sometime between my early December 2021 blood draw and March 2022. 

Late Feb-Mid March 2022 I was fighting an upper respiratory infection, sore throat, pink eye, hacking cough.  I took two covid tests (both negative) and flu and a strep test (all negative).  Symptoms finally cleared with steroid dosepack and 10 days of antibiotics. 

That had to have been it despite the 2 negative tests.

Antibodies (both types) are still rocking along.  Doesn't seem like an additional boost would do much for me, at least until the "updated" version comes out.

 

 

[Bevo 13577]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:49 AM, Brisketexan said:

We shall see.  We're still learning as we go with respect to what remains a relatively novel virus, and new approaches to vaccines.

I've harped on it a bunch, but I think going after a portion of the spike protein was great as a first approach but I think newer vaccines need to have at least a second target. I think replication proteins would provide longer-term and stronger overall response.

[GreenspointTexas 9605]

My 4th cares draw results came back yesterday:

 

still havent had covid (fuck)

antibody level >2500 despite it being over a year since I got the booster/shot #3.

[Brisketexan 105152]

Wife and I were chatting.  We're likely to have an overseas trip in a month to take the boy to school.  Thinking we'll get a "booster" in a couple of weeks.  My doc actually thought the idea of a mix-and-match was good, so we'll probably get the Moderna.  But as I understand, none of them as a specific Omicron-targeted booster have been approved yet?

[kevwun 15790]

If y'all haven't had it yet and you're around somebody with the latest strain of omicron on your travels, you're probably going to get it no matter what you do.  We went to Vegas 3 weeks ago and 4 of us hadn't had covid yet.  All were vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer and boosted once.  3 out of the 4 ended up with covid.  The latest strain seems to really like people who haven't had it yet.

Edited August 4, 2022 by kevwun

[HouTex 1872]

36 minutes ago, kevwun said:

If y'all haven't had it yet and you're around somebody with the latest strain of omicron on your travels, you're probably going to get it no matter what you do.  We went to Vegas 3 weeks ago and 4 of us hadn't had covid yet.  All were vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer and boosted once.  3 out of the 4 ended up with covid.  The latest strain seems to really like people who haven't had it yet.

This is pretty much my and my wife’s experience.  But we got it after a wedding in June.  Both of our cases were mild.  

[South Austin 52515]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

If y'all haven't had it yet and you're around somebody with the latest strain of omicron on your travels, you're probably going to get it no matter what you do.  We went to Vegas 3 weeks ago and 4 of us hadn't had covid yet.  All were vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer and boosted once.  3 out of the 4 ended up with covid.  The latest strain seems to really like people who haven't had it yet.

We'll see.  I, my kids, and three other families will be flying to Colorado on Saturday for a week in Breckenridge.  While we'll be outdoors most of the week, that'll include hanging out in two airports on the way there and back and being in a sold-out plane for two hours each way.  Neither I nor my kids have had COVID (and all of us are vaxxed with one booster), but a few others who will be in our group have during the Omicron phase of 2021.

[texasdago 7573]

10 minutes ago, South Austin said:

We'll see.  I, my kids, and three other families will be flying to Colorado on Saturday for a week in Breckenridge.  While we'll be outdoors most of the week, that'll include hanging out in two airports on the way there and back and being in a sold-out plane for two hours each way.  Neither I nor my kids have had COVID (and all of us are vaxxed with one booster), but a few others who will be in our group have during the Omicron phase of 2021.

Yup... we went to Italy, took a total of 6 flights, masked on the plane and mostly in the airport and still didn't catch it but, yes, 95% of our "public" time was outside.   Came back - still no Covid.

"4 of us hadn't had covid yet.  All were vaccinated with Moderna or Pfizer and boosted once.  3 out of the 4 ended up with covid."

Welp, there's always a 25% chance, isn't there?

[maninblack 7974]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Wife and I were chatting.  We're likely to have an overseas trip in a month to take the boy to school.  Thinking we'll get a "booster" in a couple of weeks.  My doc actually thought the idea of a mix-and-match was good, so we'll probably get the Moderna.  But as I understand, none of them as a specific Omicron-targeted booster have been approved yet?

You're a smart guy. Ultimately, put whatever you want in your body but frankly I think it's wildly misguided to keep taking shots.

Edited August 5, 2022 by maninblack

[Brisketexan 105152]

9 hours ago, maninblack said:

You're a smart guy. Ultimately, put whatever you want in your body but frankly I think it's wildly misguided to keep taking shots.

Meh.  I mean, I get an annual flu shot, geared at the dominant strain each year.  My plan and expectation is that the rhythm will eventually become the same with COVID -- annual strain-oriented vaccines.  We're not there yet, but maybe we're at some sort of bridge between immediate pandemic response and that approach.  So, I'm just looking at things, figuring out the best near-term step.

So I will "keep taking shots."  Like I do with other shots (hell, I'm due for my shingles shot).  Just want to make a call on a moving target on this one.

[South Austin 52515]

I’ll be among those like Brisket getting an annual strain-specific COVID shot (like my annual flu shot) if and when we get there. But we’re not there, and the current vaccine in large part seems wildly ineffective in preventing the latest variants. And the last two shots knocked my on my ass, and I’m not up for feeling that way again if the current booster may not do shit against Omicron.

[dcbc 14487]

5 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I’ll be among those like Brisket getting an annual strain-specific COVID shot (like my annual flu shot) if and when we get there. But we’re not there, and the current vaccine in large part seems wildly ineffective in preventing the latest variants. And the last two shots knocked my on my ass, and I’m not up for feeling that way again if the current booster may not do shit against Omicron.

Same.  Although I have had my 'Cron update, my natural antibody numbers are quite low while my almost year-old booster antibody numbers are still "out of range."  Since I'm neither a doctor or a scientist, I'll assume that the booster didn't prevent infection but helped pretty significantly to curtail the infection.  But since I know my S-antibodies still are high, I see no reason to reboost with the OG vaccine and will wait for and not hesitate to boost with something strain specific.

[Humble Beast 258]

 

[maninblack 7974]

On 8/5/2022 at 8:52 AM, Brisketexan said:

Meh.  I mean, I get an annual flu shot, geared at the dominant strain each year.  My plan and expectation is that the rhythm will eventually become the same with COVID -- annual strain-oriented vaccines.  We're not there yet, but maybe we're at some sort of bridge between immediate pandemic response and that approach.  So, I'm just looking at things, figuring out the best near-term step.

So I will "keep taking shots."  Like I do with other shots (hell, I'm due for my shingles shot).  Just want to make a call on a moving target on this one.

Cheers. 

[Anastasis 23474]

Cares just sent me my invite. Interested to see if I’ve converted on N. It’s hard to imagine that I haven’t had exposure. 

[LurkingHorn 1066]

Just caught Covid in July after having booster (3rd shot) back in November. 
 

N protein 54.7

S protein still out of range

[CTC2 2797]

I was fully vaccinated/boosted. 56 years old, skinny as opposed to overweight, exercise regularly.  Despite that, I have a handful of heart stents. 
Tested positive on a Sat. Only symptoms were a slightly sore throat, and a little bit of nasal congestion and fatigue. 
Fatigue was by far the worst symptom. 
Tested negative after six days. Fatigue lingered for the next week. Started to feel better the following week and then developed a terrible case of pericarditis. 
Doc said it was probably the result of Covid. That shit is not much fun. 
 

[Humble Beast 258]

All truth here in their commentary. 

Small study but the results were out of 202 boys age 13-18, 3 had chest pain and elevated troponins. 4 had no symptoms but elevated troponins indicating cardiac damage. 7/202 over 3%. This could’ve been investigated long ago, but wasn’t for…reasons.

 

Pfizer is supposed to release a similar study by EOY. We’ll see what that says. 
 

 

[52-80 19162]

On 8/10/2022 at 4:03 PM, Humble Beast said:

 

Twitter doesn’t trust the science

[Humble Beast 258]

So if the boosters only work well for 4 months or less, how do you time your annual booster? Covid is not seasonal like the flu. I guess a fall shot would cover most of the winter here, but then you’re susceptible during the summer wave. 

[South Austin 52515]

1 hour ago, Humble Beast said:

So if the boosters only work well for 4 months or less, how do you time your annual booster? Covid is not seasonal like the flu.

If the new boosters kick my ass like the O.G. vaccine did (shot No. 1 wasn't bad at all, but Shot Nos. 2 and 3 gave me flu-like symptoms for about a day and a half), then fuck that.  I'm not feeling like that multiple times a year if this virus has truly evolved to something like a bad cold.  I was a champion for vaccines in 2021.  This year, I don't fault folks who keep getting the shots, especially those who are elderly or have other significant risk factors.  But I'll continue to sit on the sidelines for a while longer while the new vaccines roll out.

[dcar00 14210]

On 7/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, Incredulity said:

there is zero chance there is ever a booster available designed to the most current variant.  This thing is mutating way to fast.

 

**not a doctor/ holiday inn...

my guess is that the variant names will stop with Omicron.  

[jimmyjazz 45963]

On 4/5/2022 at 12:15 PM, Trey3216 said:

You know I've been a skeptic of a lot of the COVID shit the entire time.  

-Bullshit masks don't do shit, and are moreso a show of solidarity rather than doing anything whatsoever to help with the situation.

I know this is months late, but I find it ironic that right out of the gate in your screed you got it completely wrong.

I find it sad that smart people often get duped by emotional bullshit, but there you go.  That is, unless you're defining a "bullshit mask" as something like a neck gater, in which case, carry on.

[texasdago 7573]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I know this is months late, but I find it ironic that right out of the gate in your screed you got it completely wrong.

I find it sad that smart people often get duped by emotional bullshit, but there you go.  That is, unless you're defining a "bullshit mask" as something like a neck gater, in which case, carry on.

I'm tired of surgeons wearing bullshit masks.  Let me see your smile when you operate on me.