COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[Mole 4330]

I’m a veteran who served long before COVID. I got lots of vaccines during my time and didn’t give them much of a thought. That said, there’s a lot of ignorant pontificating about readiness, military culture, and following orders going on here.

1. For every lawful order, there are tons of exceptions in practice. It’s just the reality of an organization so massive.  These exceptions are formalized to varying degrees.

2. For every lawful order, big or small, there’s a huddle of junior enlisted complaining about it and scheming to get out of it.

3. If you find yourself arguing that those in the military “signed up to follow orders” or some variation, you aren’t operating in reality.

4. I don’t care if people were forced out or not; having served during the peak of an unpopular war, I saw how the military makes business decisions based on retention, etc. As long as they make and keep their numbers, they’ll get along just fine. Pushing people out or bringing them back is just a business decision.
 

5. Get your shots, but maybe put a check on your GI Joe fantasies.

[dcbc 14471]

49 minutes ago, Mole said:

I’m a veteran who served long before COVID. I got lots of vaccines during my time and didn’t give them much of a thought. That said, there’s a lot of ignorant pontificating about readiness, military culture, and following orders going on here.

1. For every lawful order, there are tons of exceptions in practice. It’s just the reality of an organization so massive.  These exceptions are formalized to varying degrees.

2. For every lawful order, big or small, there’s a huddle of junior enlisted complaining about it and scheming to get out of it.

3. If you find yourself arguing that those in the military “signed up to follow orders” or some variation, you aren’t operating in reality.

4. I don’t care if people were forced out or not; having served during the peak of an unpopular war, I saw how the military makes business decisions based on retention, etc. As long as they make and keep their numbers, they’ll get along just fine. Pushing people out or bringing them back is just a business decision.
 

5. Get your shots, but maybe put a check on your GI Joe fantasies.

I don't know whose voice I read this post in, but he was tough-sounding.

[YGIFS 19450]

amazing, almost four years later we're still debating this.  The entire fucking thing from Trump to Biden (no CR) was so that we don't overrun our hospitals.  From the military to school kids to the co-morbids to the three elderly relatives my wife and I lost during pandemic.  The lockdowns, the shots, the masks...it was all done not as a guarantee to save us all or even to save our country...it was done to try and not have the whole fucking nation flood the hospitals at the exact same time.  We're built to absorb mortality and illness in a predictable fashion.  It's baked into our delivery systems, our insurance, our sick days at work, our schools, and our Armed Forces.  Even a nation like ours with ER's and care providers on every other block...we simply could not---given how fat and old we are---have millions of Americans in intensive care at the same time.  We had to spread it out.  And we did.  And we lost well over a million people even still. 

Get the shot.  Don't get the shot.  Nobody gives a fuck anymore.  Let the conspiracy theorists run their mouth or die trying.  We're all still gonna lose somebody to this, just like the flu.  But we're through the abyss.  We had to spread it out.  And we did.  "The Greatest Country in the History of the World" with all of our resources and wealth, look at how many still chocked out on their own lungs while loved ones watched through an iPad or hospital window.  Our delusions of grandeur still cost us an awful lot of premature deaths.  We simply do not have the capacity we think we do, in a lot of areas.  And we are paying dearly for it.  

[Armybrat 40832]

We got our 5th jabs yesterday.

Next up….RSV.

[Celery Man 20934]

Personally I think it’s hypocritical for slorch to get mad at people for taking stances on shit they don’t know fuck about.

[Stringer 1438]

I got a stem cell transplant in August as part of my leukemia treatment. One of the effects of the transplant is that all of my vaccines are wiped out. Everything from Polio to COVID. My doctor told me a couple of weeks ago to get my full COVID vaccine (original two shots and follow up boosters). I called around to multiple Walgreens, CVS and at Tarrytown Pharmacy and no one has the original vaccines anymore. Just the newest shot. One of the places told me that they got a call last month to throw away all of the old shots. Glad the execs at Moderna got a new yacht off the money from all the shots that were just thrown in the trash.

I guess the new shot is more akin to the flu shot where it is specific to the active strain and there’s not an overarching vaccine anymore. Found that super interesting.

[Scheiss Meister 8407]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

It was a political move, not a medical one.

Everyone knew it.

Yea team!!!

Hey, dumbfuck!  Did you miss the fact that at least one Navy vessel was completely out of action for weeks, and others had greatly decreased readiness due to Covid running amok in their crews?  I also read that some Air Force, Army, and Marine units experienced decreased readiness due to Covid, including delays in scheduled deployments.  No, it didn't kill a lot of fit, young service people, but it fucked up their ability to do their damned jobs.

Dumbfucks like you are why I get called Jarhead and accused of eating crayons.

[mdleast 8289]

Especially the COVID “mah freedumbz!” trolls

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

Hey, dumbfuck!  Did you miss the fact that at least one Navy vessel was completely out of action for weeks, and others had greatly decreased readiness due to Covid running amok in their crews?  I also read that some Air Force, Army, and Marine units experienced decreased readiness due to Covid, including delays in scheduled deployments.  No, it didn't kill a lot of fit, young service people, but it fucked up their ability to do their damned jobs.

Dumbfucks like you are why I get called Jarhead and accused of eating crayons.

Meh. I missed the provision in the military that servicemembers never get sick.

Took the shot.    Both sons took the shot when it was mandated but not thereafter.  Neither ever missed duty with Covid.

I  haven't had Covid.  It must have been a really good shot for each of us!!!

Edited November 18, 2023 by slorch

[Bevo 13576]

11 hours ago, Stringer said:

I got a stem cell transplant in August as part of my leukemia treatment. One of the effects of the transplant is that all of my vaccines are wiped out. Everything from Polio to COVID. My doctor told me a couple of weeks ago to get my full COVID vaccine (original two shots and follow up boosters). I called around to multiple Walgreens, CVS and at Tarrytown Pharmacy and no one has the original vaccines anymore. Just the newest shot. One of the places told me that they got a call last month to throw away all of the old shots. Glad the execs at Moderna got a new yacht off the money from all the shots that were just thrown in the trash.

I guess the new shot is more akin to the flu shot where it is specific to the active strain and there’s not an overarching vaccine anymore. Found that super interesting.

 

All of the US vaccines that are commercially available target the spike protein of the coronavirus. The newest vaccines only differ in being targeted against the newer strains. Thus, you will get better protection against the current strains with the newest vaccines. The original virus has probably died out and is not even in circulation anymore.

 

[jimmyjazz 45899]

One of my closest friends is medical officer in the Air Force (Colonel).  He's quite adamant that those vaccine orders are not only necessary but there is no fucking around when it comes to administering them.  It's absolutely an issue of readiness; to imply otherwise is lunacy.

[DaysOff 7947]

We had 6 pilots die from covid and 24 that are currently on long-term term disability due to long covid. Granted, these guys were closer to middle-age than young foot soldiers, but probably fitter than the general population in their age group. I still can't believe we're arguing over this shot that could keep you out of the cemetery.

[Denton Cooley 25]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:12 PM, royiv said:

What about the other 17 required vaccines?

I have no idea, are active duty military required to get flu shots? I think that’s what this is now most comparable to now, although still different.

17 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Same politicians and military brass, more or less, changed the policy. Was that also politically motivated?

In a sense yes. Why would they care to ask the <1% back or change their discharge status?
 

Because they’re signaling to a significant portion of the population, that is/was politically motivated, that they made a mistake in kicking people out over it or forcing people to take it. It’s an attempt to mend fences in the midst of a recruiting shortfall. They must feel that this issue is a part of it. 
 

 

[Celery Man 20934]

They simply must, it’s the only place that deductive reasoning takes you.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

34 minutes ago, Denton Cooley said:

I have no idea, are active duty military required to get flu shots? I think that’s what this is now most comparable to now, although still different.

 

 

Indeed they are, dumbfuck.

[Neonmoon 38129]

40 minutes ago, Denton Cooley said:

I have no idea, are active duty military required to get flu shots? I think that’s what this is now most comparable to now, although still different.

In a sense yes. Why would they care to ask the <1% back or change their discharge status?
 

Because they’re signaling to a significant portion of the population, that is/was politically motivated, that they made a mistake in kicking people out over it or forcing people to take it. It’s an attempt to mend fences in the midst of a recruiting shortfall. They must feel that this issue is a part of it. 
 

 

Get fucked troll 

[Denton Cooley 25]

11 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Indeed they are, dumbfuck.

Ok, that’s what I figured. So why did they drop the Covid vaccine mandate?
 

43 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

They simply must, it’s the only place that deductive reasoning takes you.

ok, then why go asking the <1% of dumbasses that quit over a vaccine to come back? 
 

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Get fucked troll 

hey hey hey. That’s no way to speak to a Longhorn Legend. 

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

I don’t know that the military is big on sharing why they do what they do or decide what they decide.  

[Celery Man 20934]

22 minutes ago, Denton Cooley said:

 

ok, then why go asking the <1% of dumbasses that quit over a vaccine to come back? 
 

 

Quote from this thread where they did that.

[jimmyjazz 45899]

If recruiting is suffering, why allow anyone to quit over a vaccine mandate?  Why not court-martial them, or dishonorably discharge them?

[royiv 9286]

3 hours ago, Denton Cooley said:

I have no idea, are active duty military required to get flu shots? I think that’s what this is now most comparable to now, although still different.

In a sense yes. Why would they care to ask the <1% back or change their discharge status?
 

Because they’re signaling to a significant portion of the population, that is/was politically motivated, that they made a mistake in kicking people out over it or forcing people to take it. It’s an attempt to mend fences in the midst of a recruiting shortfall. They must feel that this issue is a part of it. 
 

 

Username definitely doesn't check out.

[Deej 76759]

On 11/17/2023 at 8:48 PM, Celery Man said:

Personally I think it’s hypocritical for slorch to get mad at people for taking stances on shit they don’t know fuck about.

[Guest]

Funny.  What we 'know' about Cov-19 vaccines and their effects  has changed tremendously/ conveniently, depending upon your POV.

 

But yeah, keep on acting as if it is/ was absolute.

 

i am in agreement, it is unbelievable that we managed as a society to politicize something that should be straight forward.   We can't help ourselves, I guess.

Edited November 19, 2023 by slorch

[Celery Man 20934]

30 minutes ago, slorch said:

Funny.  What we 'know' about Cov-19 vaccines and their effects  has changed tremendously/ conveniently, depending upon your POV.

 

But yeah, keep on acting as if it is/ was absolute.

 

i am in agreement, it is unbelievable that we managed as a society to politicize something that should be straight forward.   We can't help ourselves, I guess.

you're currently mad at the "the military adding one more vaccine to the long list of required vaccines in the midst of a pandemic that killed more Americans than WWII was reasonable" crowd for politicizing vaccines because you think that mandating said vaccine was political. it is just magnificently stupid.

[atomheartbevo 89648]

18 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

you're currently mad at the "the military adding one more vaccine to the long list of required vaccines in the midst of a pandemic that killed more Americans than WWII was reasonable" crowd for politicizing vaccines because you think that mandating said vaccine was political. it is just magnificently stupid.

I don't think non-military folks realize just how bad things can get in certain situations - basic training was the worst, because everybody that came in with something like a cold or flu spread it to everybody else within short order, because we all shared showers, sinks, and shitters (usually not at the same time though), and we all were crammed together so many times a day from early morning to late in the evening.  I can only imagine what COVID would do in that situation.

[jimmyjazz 45899]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Funny.  What we 'know' about Cov-19 vaccines and their effects  has changed tremendously/ conveniently, depending upon your POV.

NO.  What we know has nothing to do with one's "point of view".  What we know is is what we know.  The fact that your news feeds try to spin it into something else is on your media and your gullibility.

[HornOnTheBayou 8921]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Funny.  What we 'know' about Cov-19 vaccines and their effects  has changed tremendously/ conveniently, depending upon your POV.

i am in agreement, it is unbelievable that we managed as a society to politicize something that should be straight forward.   We can't help ourselves, I guess.

Wow, the lack of self-awareness in this post is just ... slorch-ian is the only way to describe it. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by HornOnTheBayou

[Celery Man 20934]

7 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Wow, the lack of self-awareness in this post is just ... slorch-ian is the only way to describe it. 

the entitlement is mind bottling

[txduck87 985]

Test from this morning.2nd time for me. Happy new year!

[Incredulity 11665]

Caught RSV from my son over the holidays.  Tested positive at Urgent Care because I thought I probably had strep throat because daughter was just getting over that.  Had Covid again back in OCT.  RSV was worse for me(anecdote alert)

 

Children are quite effective disease vectors.

[tx 3 putt 76905]

 

 

[South Austin 52463]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:06 PM, Mole said:

Get your shots, but maybe put a check on your GI Joe fantasies.

An attitude like yours is never going to defeat Cobra.

[DDD Dad 14332]

On 11/17/2023 at 8:31 PM, Armybrat said:

We got our 5th jabs yesterday.

Next up….RSV.

Jab 6 this week. First time with Moderna. Wife got hers a few weeks ago and had a pretty severe reaction. Mine has been mild (aches and headache and very mild chills after about 24 hours). 

[Armybrat 40832]

6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Jab 6 this week. First time with Moderna. Wife got hers a few weeks ago and had a pretty severe reaction. Mine has been mild (aches and headache and very mild chills after about 24 hours). 

Ours have all been Moderna.

[tx 3 putt 76905]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Ours have all been Moderna.

moderna shot has made me sick every time, how have you reacted to it ?

[utee94 15811]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

An attitude like yours is never going to defeat Cobra.

Say what you want about Cobra, but at least they knew to mask up when in danger.

[Armybrat 40832]

35 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

moderna shot has made me sick every time, how have you reacted to it ?

No side effects except once for a slightly sore shoulder that lasted overnight.

[bolverk 29660]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

No side effects except once for a slightly sore shoulder that lasted overnight.

Same for me, except for the first one. That caused me to feel a bit sluggish, but no adverse reaction otherwise.

[Boss Hogg 808]

On 12/31/2023 at 5:18 PM, txduck87 said:

Test from this morning.2nd time for me. Happy new year!

The only reason I could think to test now would be to get out of doing something. 

[Samson's Wig 3191]

So you're the asshole who shows up to work and social gatherings when sick. 

[bolverk 29660]

1 minute ago, Samson&#x27;s Wig said:

So you're the asshole who shows up to work and social gatherings when sick. 

RSV? Common cold? Flu? Cedar fever? Covid? Same. Same.

(Remember you're addressing one of GRUhorn's accounts, a longtime Surly anti-vaxer.)

[Samson's Wig 3191]

Just now, bolverk said:

RSV? Common cold? Flu? Cedar fever? Covid? Same. Same.

(Remember you're addressing one of GRUhorn's accounts, a longtime Surly anti-vaxer.)

Thanks, I missed that somehow.  His comment makes perfect sense, then.  

[Brisketexan 105095]

4 minutes ago, Samson&#x27;s Wig said:

So you're the asshole who shows up to work and social gatherings when sick. 

This.  I mean, WTF?  I had a stomach bug earlier this week (thought it was food poisoning, took my temp, had a fever).  So I STAYED THE FUCK HOME FOR TWO DAYS SO I DIDN'T GET OTHER PEOPLE SICK.  Why is it so fucking hard not to be a giant flaming asshole?

[utee94 15811]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  I mean, WTF?  I had a stomach bug earlier this week (thought it was food poisoning, took my temp, had a fever).  So I STAYED THE FUCK HOME FOR TWO DAYS SO I DIDN'T GET OTHER PEOPLE SICK.  Why is it so fucking hard not to be a giant flaming asshole?

I don't think you need to test for COVID (or anything else) to know that you're sick and need to stay home. If you feel bad, you have a fever, just stay home.  No test necessary. 

That said, I don't believe that's the angle "Boss Hogg" was taking...

[Boss Hogg 808]

12 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

So you're the asshole who shows up to work and social gatherings when sick. 

Like even the sniffles?

I was meaning more like work commitments, but whatever.

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

RSV? Common cold? Flu? Cedar fever? Covid? Same. Same.

(Remember you're addressing one of GRUhorn's accounts, a longtime Surly anti-vaxer.)

That’s incorrect.

 

8 minutes ago, Samson&#x27;s Wig said:

Thanks, I missed that somehow.  His comment makes perfect sense, then.  

Nope. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

I don't think you need to test for COVID (or anything else) to know that you're sick and need to stay home. If you feel bad, you have a fever, just stay home.  No test necessary. 

That said, I don't believe that's the angle "Boss Hogg" was taking...

Well, with COVID, for quite a few folks, the symptoms of a highly transmissible illness are very similar to allergies.  So, yeah, if you don't have a fever or other obvious signs that yep, it's an infectious illness, and you test positive.....STAY THE FUCK HOME.  If you have reason to believe you have an infectious illness, and you can easily ascertain that you have it so as to avoid infecting other people....

....yeah, you know what, fuck it.  I forgot where I am.  Fuck everyone but me, I'm the only person who matters, me me me me me me.

[utee94 15811]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Well, with COVID, for quite a few folks, the symptoms of a highly transmissible illness are very similar to allergies.  So, yeah, if you don't have a fever or other obvious signs that yep, it's an infectious illness, and you test positive.....STAY THE FUCK HOME.  If you have reason to believe you have an infectious illness, and you can easily ascertain that you have it so as to avoid infecting other people....

....yeah, you know what, fuck it.  I forgot where I am.  Fuck everyone but me, I'm the only person who matters, me me me me me me.

I'm not quite sure which ledge you're on at the moment, or what the fuck you're talking about?

If you're suggesting that people should test for COVID when they have no symptons at all-- well, no.  That's just not going to happen. 

If you're suggesting that people should test for COVID when they have symptoms, why, specifically?  If they're sick they should stay home regardless of what illness they might have.  Flu kills a lot of people every year.  RSV can be super-dangerous for people in high-risk groups including babies and the elderly.  Are you suggesting people should test for COVID and if it's NOT, then they're fine to go out in public?  Seems counter to your argument.

It's easily simplified to "if you're sick stay home."  You already said that once.  Why would you argue against it now?

 

 

[Guadaloopy 10960]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, with COVID, for quite a few folks, the symptoms of a highly transmissible illness are very similar to allergies.  So, yeah, if you don't have a fever or other obvious signs that yep, it's an infectious illness, and you test positive.....STAY THE FUCK HOME.  If you have reason to believe you have an infectious illness, and you can easily ascertain that you have it so as to avoid infecting other people....

....yeah, you know what, fuck it.  I forgot where I am.  Fuck everyone but me, I'm the only person who matters, me me me me me me.

Blows my mind that the folks with the "We the People" tattoos and truck stickers are the first to say "fuck you" to public health measures.

[Brisketexan 105095]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I'm not quite sure which ledge you're on at the moment, or what the fuck you're talking about?

If you're suggesting that people should test for COVID when they have no symptons at all-- well, no.  That's just not going to happen. 

If you're suggesting that people should test for COVID when they have symptoms, why, specifically?  If they're sick they should stay home regardless of what illness they might have.  Flu kills a lot of people every year.  RSV can be super-dangerous for people in high-risk groups including babies and the elderly.  Are you suggesting people should test for COVID and if it's NOT, then they're fine to go out in public?  Seems counter to your argument.

It's easily simplified to "if you're sick stay home."  You already said that once.  Why would you argue against it now?

 

 

If you have symptoms consistent with COVID (in many cases, those symptoms are similar to those of a strong episode of allergies), and you think there's any reasonable basis that it might be COVID, yeah, you should test yourself so - it it turns out to be COVID, you can avoid infecting people.

Example 1: last year around this time, I was having a bad allergy outbreak.  I went over and watched the SB with friends.  The next day, my symptoms were worse.  I had COVID.  And I got two friends sick as well.  I felt really stupid after that.  I could and should have tested myself when I realized my symptoms were significant.  Would have cost me 30 seconds of my day with one of the free tests I have in my cabinet.

Example 2: my daughter was having bad allergy symptoms.  Our son is home, and has to fly internationally later next week.  She wanted to make sure she wouldn't get him sick so he couldn't fly -- she tested herself (negative).  Again, took 30 seconds out of her day to make sure she didn't get her brother sick.

If you have any material reason to suspect that your symptoms are those of a contagious illness, especially one you can quickly and easily test for, why wouldn't you?  Because you're a selfish dick.  Which is our national motto.  So fucking have at it.

[utee94 15811]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If you have symptoms consistent with COVID (in many cases, those symptoms are similar to those of a strong episode of allergies), and you think there's any reasonable basis that it might be COVID, yeah, you should test yourself so - it it turns out to be COVID, you can avoid infecting people.

Example 1: last year around this time, I was having a bad allergy outbreak.  I went over and watched the SB with friends.  The next day, my symptoms were worse.  I had COVID.  And I got two friends sick as well.  I felt really stupid after that.  I could and should have tested myself when I realized my symptoms were significant.  Would have cost me 30 seconds of my day with one of the free tests I have in my cabinet.

Example 2: my daughter was having bad allergy symptoms.  Our son is home, and has to fly internationally later next week.  She wanted to make sure she wouldn't get him sick so he couldn't fly -- she tested herself (negative).  Again, took 30 seconds out of her day to make sure she didn't get her brother sick.

If you have any material reason to suspect that your symptoms are those of a contagious illness, especially one you can quickly and easily test for, why wouldn't you?  Because you're a selfish dick.  Which is our national motto.  So fucking have at it.

I'm a selfish dick for staying home and avoiding infecting people when I feel sick, without testing for COVID?  How?  Why?  

You're really way out there on this one.  I think COVID melted a lot of people's brains.

You were right on, when you said "If you're sick, stay home."  It's simple and easy.  You shoulda stuck with that part.

 

Edited January 5 by utee94