COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[dcar00 13880]

2 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

Holy shit the people running the CDC are so fucking stupid.

You’re going to change mask policy for over 300 million people based on this shit?  THIS is the best you’ve got?!?!?

“Let’s take a self-selected, not-statistically-significant sample of ~200 nondiverse people during a party weekend that was an outlier in many respects, and use it to conclude that breakthrough infections are just as likely to transmit the virus?” 

FUCK YOU CDC ASSHOLES!!!!

Plus they only looked at symptomatic infections.  How many asymptomatic vaccinated people would have tested positive but will low titers of virus in their nose?  The denominator is screwed up.  

Symptomatic breakthrough infections having similar viral loads to symptomatic unvaccinated infections would be much less of a problem, both because symptomatic breakthroughs are rare and because people can learn to be more careful (and get tested) when they have symptoms.

Fauci and CDC are morons. But the risk of a pandemic was worth it to get mrna "vaccines".

 

Tldr CDC is asshole.

[Guest Lobo]

Do you literally think Dr. Fauci has an IQ of less than 100 or is that just political hyperbole?  

[Pods 7433]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Do you literally think Dr. Fauci has an IQ of less than 100 or is that just political hyperbole?  

You realize you are talking to pandemic's wrongest poster? Someone who completely lacks the introspection or shame to shut the fuck up after 18 months of spewing inane anti-science drivel that belongs on Texags? 

He's our board's Alex Berensen.  

[Armybrat 40513]

On 7/29/2021 at 2:18 PM, Harrison Bergeron said:

As we learned in elementary school, talk is cheap. It is interesting that in additional to rejecting the mandate only 60% of AFT members are vaccinated. There obviously is a gap in between what people say and what they do. Of course, I am assuming (reasonably) that the AFT speaks for the significant majority of teachers.

They certainly did not before I retired. The ATPE had a larger membership in Texas, and in Austin it seemed the majority of the AFT was made up of bus drivers, staff, and a handful of teachers. That probably changed in the past 25 years though.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

14 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I have zero sympathy or empathy for any unvaccinated person who gets it.  Too fucking bad; enjoy suffering, fuck faces. 

This is where I shake out. Every adult has had the option to get the vaccine. If you refuse that's on you, not me. Don't punish me for your refusal to make a common sense decision.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Okay, well, let's go back to your original claim and correct it with the right acronym.

Source on the percentage? 

Also, as a reminder, the UFT in NYC supports the mandate. So, regardless of whatever percentage of their membership is vaccinated, you're still fucking wrong, whether by design or stupidity.

 

I posted an article earlier in this thread that showed the % vaccinated among NYC teachers, public hospital workers, cops, fire, and bus-subway employees. Your really proves my point: there is a gap between what people report they did vs. what they actually did. The most shocking besides teachers was public hospital workers were ~60% vaccinated. Cops and fire were lower and transportation was the highest at ~65%. It just continues to affirm that vaccine hesitancy is not exactly in line with what the meedya or others portray.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Harrison Bergeron

[Brisketexan 103465]

This is where I shake out. Every adult has had the option to get the vaccine. If you refuse that's on you, not me. Don't punish me for your refusal to make a common sense decision.

Except when the thing at issue is a highly transmissible virus….their shitty decisions literally DO punish other people.

That’s kind of the whole fucking problem here. The decisions of morons have consequences for everyone else.

How the fuck do you not fucking get this yet?

[DDD Dad 14060]

Except when the thing at issue is a highly transmissible virus….their shitty decisions literally DO punish other people.

That’s kind of the whole fucking problem here. The decisions of morons have consequences for everyone else.

How the fuck do you not fucking get this yet?

Well it’s GR Horn so….

[DDD Dad 14060]

Fauci and CDC are morons. But the risk of a pandemic was worth it to get mrna "vaccines".
 
Tldr CDC is asshole.

[StruggleBus 3922]

I’d really like to see some more concrete data on moderna efficacy vs delta. Sure seems like the majority of breakthroughs I see are Pfizer and JJ, but I’m also assuming the majority of the US received Pfizer.

[Muy Frio 182]

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11728]

3 hours ago, Muy Frio said:

 

Not sure what the point of this post is, GR(U)horn, other than trolling.  

[Bevo 13420]

Looks like we are giving the land back to the natives.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18354]

 

Who cares? The vaccines are free. Get vaccinated so we can all live our lives. Also, fuck off GRHorn.

[Pasken 1309]

12 hours ago, dcar00 said:

Fauci and CDC are morons. But the risk of a pandemic was worth it to get mrna "vaccines".

 

Tldr CDC is asshole.

You’re an idiot.

[Pato del Muerto 51980]

8 hours ago, Muy Frio said:

 

And 44% of white people.  It’s not racially discriminatory, unless you argue that access is the reason for any discrepancy between races. 

[midtown 3334]

Facts

[Brisketexan 103465]

Facts

“Facts are lies” - anti-vaxxers.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11728]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

“Facts are lies” - anti-vaxxers.

 

15 hours ago, dcar00 said:

Fauci and CDC are morons. But the risk of a pandemic was worth it to get mrna "vaccines".

 

Tldr CDC is asshole.

Enough said.

[GreenspointTexas 9365]

ShOw Me ThE dAtA!!!!!

[Judge Roybeanbag 11728]

18 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

people can learn to be more careful (and get tested) when they have symptoms.

You might want to reconsider this part.  Just look at who else quoted you. 

[naija 2804]

A vaccinated colleague was symptomatic Monday, sent home, tested positive. Another feels out of sorts.... Now in a wait and see if I feel anything...

[Anastasis 23204]

11 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

I’d really like to see some more concrete data on moderna efficacy vs delta. Sure seems like the majority of breakthroughs I see are Pfizer and JJ, but I’m also assuming the majority of the US received Pfizer.

 

The only real appreciable difference between MRNA and PFE is the admin regimen.  3w second dose vs 4 week second dose.  Some data suggests that longer duration of time between 1st and 2nd dose may result in more robust immune response, but I doubt that 1 week makes that much of a difference.  To the extent that there actually is a different between MRNA and PFE breakthrough cases (and I am not convinced that there is), it may be due to higher risk individuals getting PFE earlier on (older with less robust immune response and high exposure risk HCWs).  At least that's my thinking. 

[htown85 159]

Got the Moderna vax in March and just tested positive. Mild symptoms. 

[GreenspointTexas 9365]

Its crazy how the govt or anyone in charge isnt telling people to take lots of Vitamin D and/or Zinc during these peaks. They make a huge difference imo

[Chewbacca 7617]

“Facts are lies” - anti-vaxxers.

Facts don't matter anymore, sadly.

[smoky 837]

Lies, damned lies and statistics?

[StruggleBus 3922]

45 minutes ago, htown85 said:

Got the Moderna vax in March and just tested positive. Mild symptoms. 

Did you have any side effects back when you got the vax?

[Pods 7433]

13 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

I’d really like to see some more concrete data on moderna efficacy vs delta. Sure seems like the majority of breakthroughs I see are Pfizer and JJ, but I’m also assuming the majority of the US received Pfizer.

Like @Anastasis said a few posts ago, I'm expecting to hear more breakthrough Moderna reports. Israel, Gibraltar and Malta used Pfizer and they are a fair bit ahead of us on the vaccination timeline. The working hypothesis is the effectiveness decays with time, so those places have had longer to show it. In addition to what ana mentioned, I think the Moderna second shot is approximately the same size as the first and the second Pfizer shot is reduced in volume considerably. That's one of the ideas for why the side effects of the second Moderna dose were worse on avg. That could also maybe explain a reduction in Pfizer slightly before Moderna, but I'm expecting we'll see the same results for Moderna in the not distant future. 

IMHO,  Boosters at 6 months is going to be the future, unless they can get a vaccine that knocks out all coronaviruses. Given how readily variants re-infect older strains, there isn't any such thing as herd immunity without them. 

Mask up and keep your viral loads as low as you can while more data rolls in. Valved N95 masks are a huge improvement, even with a paper mask over it to filter your exhaust. Eye protection if you're indoors with recirculating air, or close proximity. Vitamin D and Zinc. 

The vaccines are at least greatly reducing severe infections and deaths, even past 6 months, though they allow infections to spread.

[Pods 7433]

If you aren't vaccinated, please consider who you are listening to that has gotten you to this point. Virtually every person on this board with graduate level scientific or medical training is telling you the same thing. You see a lot of frustration in our responses, but that's because we actually do care whether you live, or die and we care about the people around you too.

If you have good faith questions, ask them, get those concerns addressed and get vaccinated. If not, please shut the fuck up right now. A bunch of Americans are about to die because of disinformation, at least have the decency to keep your ignorance to yourself and don't try to get someone else on this board killed too. 

You have smart motherfuckers on this board who care about you that want you to live. Don't listen to Texags, please get vaccinated. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Pods

[Borachio 416]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

 

The only real appreciable difference between MRNA and PFE is the admin regimen.  3w second dose vs 4 week second dose.  Some data suggests that longer duration of time between 1st and 2nd dose may result in more robust immune response, but I doubt that 1 week makes that much of a difference.  To the extent that there actually is a different between MRNA and PFE breakthrough cases (and I am not convinced that there is), it may be due to higher risk individuals getting PFE earlier on (older with less robust immune response and high exposure risk HCWs).  At least that's my thinking. 

Moderna is also a 100-microgram dosage versus 30-micrograms for Pfizer.  Would that have any affect on protection?

[Borachio 416]

1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Its crazy how the govt or anyone in charge isnt telling people to take lots of Vitamin D and/or Zinc during these peaks. They make a huge difference imo

I grabbed some zinc and vitamin d last week.   What dosage of zinc per day is too much?

[TexasBeta 1257]

I grabbed some zinc and vitamin d last week.   What dosage of zinc per day is too much?

This is what the Mayo Clinic says BUT I’m sure some surely Doc knows better than I.

For the U.S

Adult and teenage males—15 milligrams (mg) per day.
Adult and teenage females—12 mg per day.
Pregnant females—15 mg per day.
Breast-feeding females—16 to 19 mg per day.
Children 4 to 10 years of age—10 mg per day.
Children birth to 3 years of age—5 to 10 mg per day.

[Pods 7433]

3 minutes ago, Borachio said:

Moderna is also a 100-microgram dosage versus 30-micrograms for Pfizer.  Would that have any affect on protection?

I think it's likely. It's also a likely reason Moderna produced stronger side effects than Pfizer did for dose 2. 

I am totally pulling this next part out of my ass as a hunch and have no data either way-> I think there might be a temporary benefit there, but I'd be surprised if it lasted much longer. Maybe very short, maybe a couple weeks to a month max. <- I could be wrong on that, but I think it's probably right. 

The problem isn't the vaccines, it's the variants. The vaccine protects great at 6 months still versus the original wild type strain. That's why we're going to continue to need regular boosters.  

[Borachio 416]

1 minute ago, TexasBeta said:

This is what the Mayo Clinic says BUT I’m sure some surely Doc knows better than I.

For the U.S

Adult and teenage males—15 milligrams (mg) per day.
Adult and teenage females—12 mg per day.
Pregnant females—15 mg per day.
Breast-feeding females—16 to 19 mg per day.
Children 4 to 10 years of age—10 mg per day.
Children birth to 3 years of age—5 to 10 mg per day.

Right now I am taking between 15 and 20 mg each day. Just wasn't sure if that was enough. 

[Surly Bevo 24350]

Listen to @Pods, he made his life studying dinosaurs...and they're all fucking dead.

[Anastasis 23204]

25 minutes ago, Borachio said:

Moderna is also a 100-microgram dosage versus 30-micrograms for Pfizer.  Would that have any affect on protection?

That might make sense.  I don't know how they calculate those dosages. 

ETA: Looks like they calculate based on the actual among of modified mRNA, which makes total sense.  That never occurred to me as a potential differentiator but seems reasonable, although I don't think that the immunological data suggest a meaningful difference between the two, so who knows. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Anastasis

[TexasBeta 1257]

Right now I am taking between 15 and 20 mg each day. Just wasn't sure if that was enough. 

You got me. I saw your post and wondered the same thing. Looking for a multivitamin for the kids to give when school starts.

[htown85 159]

59 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Did you have any side effects back when you got the vax?

Just sore arm

[justhookit 4165]

Nueces County is finally starting to put out some worthwhile data. It’s not much but it’s a start.

Vaccine Breakthrough Cases in Nueces County
(217 cases)
• # hospitalized – 25
• #deaths–4
Vaccine Status: Moderna 78
Pfizer 57 J&J 30 Unknown 01
Time Infected: 25 to 54 days after last vaccine

[Pods 7433]

14 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Listen to @Pods, he made his life studying dinosaurs...and they're all fucking dead.

That plus all the human anatomy and evolutionary biology training plus 7 years teaching medical school. 

The dinosaur stuff actually is pretty helpful too. Most scientists have the luxury of lots of data, we don't. Everything we do is based on interpreting trends from extremely fragmentary data and extrapolating that to something we can never observe directly.

It's been very frustrating to watch public health and epidemiology officials that lack that skill set and experience entirely, move like dinosaurs themselves. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Pods

[Muy Frio 182]

Here’s the UK data survey that the column quotes. The UK has collected more data than us and show a re-infection rate over the last 15 months of 1%. High viral load counts suggestive of more severe disease occur in only 0.2% of people previously infected. 
 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveycharacteristicsofpeopletestingpositiveforcovid19uk/28july2021

So with previously infected people and those vaccinated we must be getting close to herd immunity here. I think delta has put us over the edge. 

[Pods 7433]

Israel data not looking so good today, now seeing a rise in hospitalizations after 11 days of being pretty flat. From 167 yesterday to 201 today. From 4 intubated to 22 in 24 hours. 

We don't know how many are vaccinated versus unvaccinated, they haven't released that info that I've seen since the 21st. If anyone does see that data, please post it. 

 

Quote

There were 2,435 new coronavirus cases in Israel over the last 24 hours, the Health Ministry announced on Saturday evening. 

They announced that 98,759 tests were conducted, with 2.49% of cases returning a positive result. 

As of Saturday evening, 201 patients are in serious condition with 26 intubated, a rise of 22 in 24 hours.

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/coronavirus-in-israel-over-2000-test-positive-for-fifth-day-in-a-row-675485

[MissingInAction 24322]

18 hours ago, Pods said:

You realize you are talking to pandemic's wrongest poster? Someone who completely lacks the introspection or shame to shut the fuck up after 18 months of spewing inane anti-science drivel that belongs on Texags? 

He's our board's Alex Berensen.  

Quoted for awesomeness.

I'm taking 10 mG of thc every day. Hope it helps.

Edited July 31, 2021 by MissingInAction

[Pods 7433]

6 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Here’s the UK data survey that the column quotes. The UK has collected more data than us and show a re-infection rate over the last 15 months of 1%. High viral load counts suggestive of more severe disease occur in only 0.2% of people previously infected. 
 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveycharacteristicsofpeopletestingpositiveforcovid19uk/28july2021

So with previously infected people and those vaccinated we must be getting close to herd immunity here. I think delta has put us over the edge. 

 

This is disinformation at this point GRHorn. We've known that variants reinfect previously infected patients conclusively for more than 7 months now. In October of 2020, 76% of residents in Amazonas province had covid antibodies. So did much of the surrounding area.

They got fucking wrecked by Gamma.

 

Quote

in Manaus, Brazil, a study of blood donors indicated that 76% (95% CI 67–98) of the population had been infected with SARS-CoV-2 by October, 2020.

2 High attack rates of SARS-CoV-2 were also estimated in population-based samples from other locations in the Amazon Basin—eg, Iquitos, Peru 70% (67–73).3 The estimated SARS-CoV-2 attack rate in Manaus would be above the theoretical herd immunity threshold (67%), given a basic case reproduction number (R0) of 3.4In this context, the abrupt increase in the number of COVID-19 hospital admissions in Manaus during January, 2021 (3431 in Jan 1–19, 2021, vs 552 in Dec 1–19, 2020) is unexpected and of concern (figure).5,  6,  7,  8,  9,  

10 After a large epidemic that peaked in late April, 2020, COVID-19 hospitalisations in Manaus remained stable and fairly low for 7 months from May to November, despite the relaxation of COVID-19 control measures during that period (figure).

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext

As a pretend doctor, I assume you are familiar with the fact that The Lancet is a pretty good journal. 

Additionally, the alpha variant originated in the UK early on and there were very few previously infected patients to re-infect, so no shit the breakthrough infections in the UK were low.

Delta is causing breakthrough infections all over the world. It's all over the news and this thread. You cannot have missed it. It is completely dishonest to parrot those talking points at this point.  

There is no such thing as herd immunity without vaccinations and boosters.

Life finds a way. 

[Muy Frio 182]

12 minutes ago, Pods said:

 

This is disinformation at this point GRHorn. We've known that variants reinfect previously infected patients conclusively for more than 7 months now. In October of 2020, 76% of residents in Amazonas province had covid antibodies. So did much of the surrounding area.

They got fucking wrecked by Gamma.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext

As a pretend doctor, I assume you are familiar with the fact that The Lancet is a pretty good journal. 

Additionally, the alpha variant originated in the UK early on and there were very few previously infected patients to re-infect, so no shit the breakthrough infections in the UK were low.

Delta is causing breakthrough infections all over the world. It's all over the news and this thread. You cannot have missed it. It is completely dishonest to parrot those talking points at this point.  

There is no such thing as herd immunity without vaccinations and boosters.

Life finds a way. 

Is the Uk government distributing disinformation? It’s official government data released 3 days ago. 

[Pods 7433]

3 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Is the Uk government distributing disinformation? It’s official government data released 3 days ago. 

 

18 minutes ago, Pods said:

the alpha variant originated in the UK early on and there were very few previously infected patients to re-infect, so no shit the breakthrough infections in the UK were low.

Delta is causing breakthrough infections all over the world. It's all over the news and this thread. You cannot have missed it. It is completely dishonest to parrot those talking points at this point.  

There is no such thing as herd immunity without vaccinations and boosters.

Life finds a way. 

 

The UK released data. Your intentionally false interpretation of the UK data and then coming to spread it here is the disinformation.

There is no such thing as herd immunity without vaccines and boosters. You fuckers spreading disinformation are getting people killed. 

[Muy Frio 182]

8 minutes ago, Pods said:

 

 

The UK released data. Your intentionally false interpretation of the UK data and then coming to spread it here is the disinformation.

There is no such thing as herd immunity without vaccines and boosters. You fuckers spreading disinformation are getting people killed. 

What is false about my interpretation of the data? It’s basically the same interpretation of the data in the column retweeted by Scott Gottlieb. 

[Mole 4272]

The mole household is now a vaccine breakthrough household. We’re both experiencing mild symptoms. Mrs. Mole tested positive; I tested negative but was told to test again in a few days.

We got our 2nd Pfizer shot in April. We’ve done minimal socializing with unvaccinated people. Assuming it’s delta, it passes around really easily.

I currently have a mild headache, some post nasal drip, and generally feel run down. It’s essentially the way we both felt after each shot.

I’ll check in a few weeks from now if I’m dead!

[Judge Roybeanbag 11728]

14 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

What is false about my interpretation of the data? It’s basically the same interpretation of the data in the column retweeted by Scott Gottlieb. 

What is your deal?  Do you get paid for divisiveness?  Stop being a cunt.