COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[Pods 7637]

11 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Oh it's probably not rare. The question is how bad is it really for most of them (and while I think more data is needed we are finding out for a lot of folks ehh, not that bad). 

I think on a normal year (which the last 18 months have certainly not been) that between the occasional allergy flare up, a stomach bug, and "colds/flu' of various types I am "sick" 5-6 times a year.  In a normal year maybe one of those times am I "sick enough" to where it slows me down (call out from work, what have you for a day to get back on my feet) and once every 2-3 years am I really sick enough to where I am on my ass (runs for several days, lay around in bed not wanting to do much of anything).  That's normal, and if for most vaccinated people that is what this looks like (yea I get Covid here and there and every now and then it makes me feel pretty shitty) I would be perfectly fine with it. 

 

That's the problem, we don't really know, there isn't enough data. Experience with Gamma says re-infections of previously infected is going to be a huge fucking problem. I don't think that applies 1:1, they are likely more susceptible genetically than much of our population, it was a complete surprise that re-infections could happen, the Brazilian govt basically said "fuck it" and let it burn both times, and the healthcare standards aren't remotely comparable to ours for people with access to healthcare. 

Delta is not showing the same mortality spike for the vaccinated. No one really knows, but it doesn't seem to be spiking in the previously infected either. Fingers crossed it stays that way. 

The UK, Gibraltar and Malta are showing fewer breakthrough infections than Israel. Every country on earth is still showing the vaccines squashing mortality and severity, even past the 6 month mark where infections seem to be increasing.   

I THINK the vast majority of breakthrough infections and re-infections in the US are going to be mild, but I don't think it's possible for anyone to know. Combined with the unknown risk of long covid, I'd advise a cautious approach until we know more in a couple of weeks. Delta spreads really quickly, it's not going to take long until we know how it's going to behave in the west. 

[Gatorubet 30715]

Hope you are feeling better.
Your onc realizes that metastatic cancer also increases risk for clots, I hope?  Like, WAAAAAYYYY MORE than COVID…
I’d bet you didn’t have COVID…but what do I know?  

I could always have mets. Negative CTs and MRIs and biopsies - and PET scans darker than North Korea at night - and OK CEA levels might ALL be wrong. I’m aware of my chance of reoccurrence and why no amount of good checkup scans/labs are a defense.

But my odd fever 8-9 days before the clot finding scan, and subsequent ultrasounds showing nothing in my lungs or lower extremities now makes me side with the onc. But then, what the hell does MD Anderson know?

If me hitting Stage IV made the clots, I’ll buy you a cocktail for being right when we meet in the SEC Championship Game.

[Pods 7637]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:21 PM, Muy Frio said:

I don’t question the need for most people to get vaccinated. I question the need for those with prior infection to get vaccinated, especially teens and eventually younger children. 

 

14 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

I look at it this way. 
 

Let’s say for purposes of this discussion my chances of getting re-infected in the next 12 months are 1%. If I opt to get vaccinated then I expose myself to all of the common possible side effects we all know. Could be nothing. Could last a few days. Then there’s the extremely rare side effects. All for dropping that 1% to what 0.5%?
 

Then you consider that I’m young, healthy and a second covid infection would likely be weaker than the first which one was relatively mild. The math doesn’t add up.  

 

Definitely an entirely truthful person who is not trying to spread intentional disinformation and discourage people from taking the vaccine. 

This isn't fucking Texags.

We see through you. 

 

[htown85 159]

2 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Everybody I know with Covid right now, including myself, is a “breakthrough” infection. So really not sure how long anyone is going to be able to hold onto that circumstance being rare. It’s not.

Yeah, same. It seems like media/reports act like getting the vaccine will prevent infection altogether. Definitely not the case.    

[dcbc 14644]

1 hour ago, htown85 said:

Yeah, same. It seems like media/reports act like getting the vaccine will prevent infection altogether. Definitely not the case.    

Report from the eastern block of the state.  While my family and all of my friends are vaccinated, I know people on the other side of the equation. 

So far, for July, I know of three breakthrough cases with mild symptoms and two unvaxxed regards.  Of the unvaxxed, one is dead and the other is hospitalized.

Edited August 2, 2021 by dcbc

[JesusSweatDuck 18110]

3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I could always have mets. Negative CTs and MRIs and biopsies - and PET scans darker than North Korea at night - and OK CEA levels might ALL be wrong. I’m aware of my chance of reoccurrence and why no amount of good checkup scans/labs are a defense.

But my odd fever 8-9 days before the clot finding scan, and subsequent ultrasounds showing nothing in my lungs or lower extremities now makes me side with the onc. But then, what the hell does MD Anderson know?

If me hitting Stage IV made the clots, I’ll buy you a cocktail for being right when we meet in the SEC Championship Game.

Either way, hook 'em. Kick cancer's ass and I'll buy you whatever you want to drink/eat

[Anastasis 23718]

3 hours ago, Muy Frio said:

I look at it this way. 

Let’s say for purposes of this discussion my chances of getting re-infected in the next 12 months are 1%. If I opt to get vaccinated then I expose myself to all of the common possible side effects we all know. Could be nothing. Could last a few days. Then there’s the extremely rare side effects. All for dropping that 1% to what 0.5%?

Then you consider that I’m young, healthy and a second covid infection would likely be weaker than the first which one was relatively mild. The math doesn’t add up.  

I think that you are likely underestimating the reinfection risks, and overestimating the risk of side effects.  The latter are miniscule, the former somewhat vague in terms of hard data, but common sense should prevail. My risk benefit analysis clearly tilts towards getting the shot(s) post infection.  I can appreciate that the point estimates are not solid, and that you are weighing the uncertainties there. These things are not as clear cut as some posters would like to suggest. 

[Anastasis 23718]

3 hours ago, Pods said:

Definitely an entirely truthful person who is not trying to spread intentional disinformation and discourage people from taking the vaccine. 

This isn't fucking Texags.

We see through you. 

This isn't fair, and actually reflects texags thinking by projection. The data are not definitive on many of the specific topics being debated (natural immunity vs. vax immunity, necessity of vax in post convalescent cases, pediatric cases <12, etc.). It does a disservice to the discussion to bring this kind of rhetoric into it, both from GR and you.   

 

[Bateshorn 9991]

What is the discussion here?  

1. Is anybody arguing you shouldn’t get the vaccine if you are over 12 and want to lessen your chances of severe Covid? 
 

2. Even if natural immunity is better than the vaccine, why would you expose yourself to the risk of unvaccinated Covid, given the clear protection from serious illness and death the vaccination gives you RELATIVE to being unvaccinated?

Take Smallpox.  Theoretically, if you survive smallpox, you are immune. Except there was a vaccine, so it was a moot question.  We are having the same debate here.  Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Show your work. 

[Heme Doc 417]

4 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I could always have mets. Negative CTs and MRIs and biopsies - and PET scans darker than North Korea at night - and OK CEA levels might ALL be wrong. I’m aware of my chance of reoccurrence and why no amount of good checkup scans/labs are a defense.

But my odd fever 8-9 days before the clot finding scan, and subsequent ultrasounds showing nothing in my lungs or lower extremities now makes me side with the onc. But then, what the hell does MD Anderson know?

If me hitting Stage IV made the clots, I’ll buy you a cocktail for being right when we meet in the SEC Championship Game.

Sweet!  Happy to be wrong here.  I thought you were having scans because you already had Mets and were looking at response to therapy.  My mistake.  I’d be curious to know if you had antibodies to nucleocapsid indicating prior infection.  Glad it sounds like you’re doing well

Edited August 2, 2021 by Heme Doc

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

On 7/30/2021 at 8:54 PM, Brisketexan said:

Except when the thing at issue is a highly transmissible virus….their shitty decisions literally DO punish other people.

That’s kind of the whole fucking problem here. The decisions of morons have consequences for everyone else.

How the fuck do you not fucking get this yet?

How? Do you believe the vaccines do not work?

[Bookman 4760]

44 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

How? Do you believe the vaccines do not work?

The vaccines work but they're not 100%.

Were you bad at math or something?

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

50 minutes ago, Bookman said:

The vaccines work but they're not 100%.

Were you bad at math or something?

No, I'm pretty good at math. So what percentage are the vaccines? How effective are they?

[mdleast 8521]

We’re still actually arguing about vaccines??

[Surly Bevo 25738]

Jesus Fucking Christ

Though I guess if they really want to meet him this is the way to do it....

[Anastasis 23718]

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Jesus Fucking Christ

Though I guess if they really want to meet him this is the way to do it....

 

Y'all pussies get bent out of shape when we burn these heretics at the stake. 

[InkaUtexas 26881]

45 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

No, I'm pretty good at math. So what percentage are the vaccines? How effective are they?

Better than no vaccine is what I have been seeing. Effective enough to where when I had Covid (after vaccines) I was down for a day. My son, no vaccines is still recovering. I am 48. He is 23. 

Get it or don't get it, that is your decision. I am gonna trust modern science. You be you fam. 

[Chewbacca 7830]

No, I'm pretty good at math. So what percentage are the vaccines? How effective are they?

Apparently you are not pretty good at math.

[justhookit 4206]

8 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

2 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

No, I'm pretty good at math. So what percentage are the vaccines? How effective are they?

Apparently you are not pretty good at math.

To be fair, that would require him to further break it down into vaccine efficacy as components of get virus, show symptoms,, get hospitalized, or die. That’s a shitton of math.

[Horn Dogg 4296]

2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Jesus Fucking Christ

Though I guess if they really want to meet him this is the way to do it....

God damn, this is crazy.  I felt like I was watching a WWE pre match interview.  I know Camacho is supposed to win the presidency in about 500 years, but this guy seems like a good fit for Camacho’s predecessor. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Horn Dogg

[Bookman 4760]

7 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

No, I'm pretty good at math.

If you're good at math that means you're asking stupid questions on purpose.

[Captainant 28538]

5 hours ago, Horn Dogg said:

God damn, this is crazy.  I felt like I was watching a WWE pre match interview.  I know Camacho is supposed to win the presidency in about 500 years, but this guy seems like a good fit for Camacho’s predecessor. 

Tfw we've already had a WWE hall of famer as president

[JesusSweatDuck 18110]

9 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Jesus Fucking Christ

Though I guess if they really want to meet him this is the way to do it....

My father told me Satan has a pineapple waiting for him

[Gatorubet 30715]

Either way, hook 'em. Kick cancer's ass and I'll buy you whatever you want to drink/eat

Fuck cancer - and Georgia - is always the right call. Look forward to that first Gator-Longhorn tailgate.

[wildcat09 29579]

We need to negrampage every GR Horn sock. 

[midtown 3354]

 

[BillyBadAss 197]

14 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

How? Do you believe the vaccines do not work?

Because a significant portion of our population is not eligible for vaccinations (children). 
Because that population has had a serious dent put in their education missing 2 years of normal classroom instruction and can't afford any more disruptions. 
Because the more the virus spreads, the more it mutates. 
Because eventually it's likely a mutation could be more deadly to kids. 
Because eventually a mutation will find it's way around the vaccines. 
Because being a kid and having a vaccine aren't 100% protection. 
Because it's much harder for this shit to spread and mutate when a high percentage of the population has a vaccine. 

Jesus fucking christ you fuck nuts. Be a fucking man, do your civic and moral duty and get your fucking arm pricked so our gotdamned kids can be fucking kids again. 

[Storm the Field 5366]

With today's report, we've finally hit the milestone of 70% of US adults (18+) having received a dose of vaccine.

[washparkhorn 9973]

18 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

With today's report, we've finally hit the milestone of 70% of US adults (18+) having received a dose of vaccine.

We need moar shots in arms. 

I am hoping those receiving a booster now are only a small portion of the 70% number. I am full Pfizer vaccinated, but obtaining a booster has entered my mind as an option with Delta and the variants. 

There should be a way to sort through and determine how many are booster doses there are in this batch of vax numbers (perhaps by looking at the numbers of missing second shots with this wave). 

[midtown 3354]

Are the people getting boosters taking their cards and getting a third stamp or just getting a second card?

 

[BillyBadAss 197]

6 minutes ago, midtown said:

Are the people getting boosters taking their cards and getting a third stamp or just getting a second card?

 

I only know of one person who attempted to get a booster (at a Walgreen's in California). They checked their insurance and determined they had already received a single-dose J&J and denied them getting a Pfizer shot.  Now, had they lied and said they didn't have insurance, would they have checked a state database or had another way of knowing?  Not sure. 

 

[horn4life 3838]

Bottom line now is if you an older immune compromised person that got vaccinated in January or early February,  you are going to need some sort of booster soon.  I know of multiple breakthrough cases in fully vaccinated people.  My buddies 91 year old Dad got it here and hopped on the plane to Idaho... Insisted it was anything but covid...  $20,000 private plane ride later the clan is back in Houston.  And he feels good enough to skip the doctors order to use the oxygen about an hour a day.  Doc said the vaccine likely saved his life.  The Dad and oldest son both Tested positive during the trip to Idaho, though the sun was basically asymptomatic (slightly scratchy throat I think.) Once Dad got to the Hospital and they started treating him he felt a lot better in just 12 hours.  He was mostly sleeping and not eating at that point, insisting on not getting a covid test. First thing hospital does is covid test...

The folks that insist (for whatever reason) not to get vaccines... are really playing Russian Roulette. AND risking clogging up the hospital system with their illness.

I am curious to see how my wife's company (sub- of CVS) handles booster vaccines.  Seeing that CVS own's Aetna, and Aetna covers all CVS employees, they probably have a very good idea of the cost/ benefit of boosters.  What we need is a new vax Designed for this variant.  Then in another 6 month another booster for whatever the new variant produced by the replication among the unvaccinated has brought us.  This will repeat again and again all mainly because of misinformation.

I see some sort of stick and carrot approach before too long to incentivize the current voluntary covid hosts into making wiser decisions. Either that or we never, ever, ever, hit herd immunity.  Some folks are gonna insist to their deaths or hospitalization that "they are right" (even though scientifically wrong).  It will be interesting to see how it shakes out since we squandered the opportunity this year to snuff this thing out. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by horn4life

[BillyBadAss 197]

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/13/1015591406/french-people-rush-for-vaccines-after-macron-ties-a-new-health-pass-to-cafe-life

[CooterBrown 18288]

17 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

What is the discussion here?  

1. Is anybody arguing you shouldn’t get the vaccine if you are over 12 and want to lessen your chances of severe Covid? 
 

2. Even if natural immunity is better than the vaccine, why would you expose yourself to the risk of unvaccinated Covid, given the clear protection from serious illness and death the vaccination gives you RELATIVE to being unvaccinated?

Take Smallpox.  Theoretically, if you survive smallpox, you are immune. Except there was a vaccine, so it was a moot question.  We are having the same debate here.  Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Show your work. 

The difference is all the stupidity genes that would've died out over the last 7 decades have been allowed to survive due to vaccines.

 

[utee94 16086]

6 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

The difference is all the stupidity genes that would've died out over the last 7 decades have been allowed to survive due to vaccines.

 

But wait, aren't the stupid people the ones NOT getting the vaccines and therefore more likely to die out?

 

[TXSooner518 2455]

9 minutes ago, BillyBadAss said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/13/1015591406/french-people-rush-for-vaccines-after-macron-ties-a-new-health-pass-to-cafe-life

When I went and testified at the Lege, you couldn't get in without either proof of vax or passing a rapid test. This needs to be more widely implemented. Then the lunatic anti-vax people can't screech about vaccine passports or forced vax and the rest of us can move on. 

[CooterBrown 18288]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

But wait, aren't the stupid people the ones NOT getting the vaccines and therefore more likely to die out?

 

We've come full circle.

[Foosters 18280]

14 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

When I went and testified at the Lege, you couldn't get in without either proof of vax or passing a rapid test. This needs to be more widely implemented. Then the lunatic anti-vax people can't screech about vaccine passports or forced vax and the rest of us can move on. 

More and more private businesses in LA are moving to this. I've seen several restaurants implement this policy and have a security guard at the door.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

15 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Better than no vaccine is what I have been seeing. Effective enough to where when I had Covid (after vaccines) I was down for a day. My son, no vaccines is still recovering. I am 48. He is 23. 

Get it or don't get it, that is your decision. I am gonna trust modern science. You be you fam. 

I think you're missing my point, which is because the vaccines are effective and every adult has had the chance to get it then covid risk is on each individual and not on others. If one believes the vaccines work then one should reasonably feel comfortable returning to normal at whatever one's particular level of risk. Said another way, acting like an adult. That was my initial point: I should not have to change my life because someone refuses a basic, common sense step of getting a vaccine. 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

1 hour ago, midtown said:

Are the people getting boosters taking their cards and getting a third stamp or just getting a second card?

 

I think in order to get the free Sub Sandwich, they need to be on the same card.

[Guest Lobo]

Every single one of us forsakes liberties and changes our lives numerous times throughout the day because of the stupidity of other citizens.  Every single day.  Several times a day.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13730]

1 hour ago, midtown said:

Are the people getting boosters taking their cards and getting a third stamp or just getting a second card?

 

I don't think anyone will officially give you a 3rd vaccine right now so they won't put a 3rd stamp on your vaccine card. When I got my 3rd shot, I just said it was my first and they gave a new card. Obviously.

You might be able to convince a doc or pharmacist to give you a 3rd but I imagine they would run into problems documenting it for reimbursement. In other words, for a 3rd shot to occur today, someone has to lie and its doubtful a medical professional would do that for you. 

One more thing about getting the 3rd vaccine. I didn't run into a state database that flagged me as being vaccinated. Now if you go to the same location/system in which you had the 1st 2 shots, I see a potential that they would catch on. 

 

[Brisketexan 106891]

I think you're missing my point, which is because the vaccines are effective and every adult has had the chance to get it then covid risk is on each individual and not on others. If one believes the vaccines work then one should reasonably feel comfortable returning to normal at whatever one's particular level of risk. Said another way, acting like an adult. That was my initial point: I should not have to change my life because someone refuses a basic, common sense step of getting a vaccine. 

You dishonest fuckstick.

1 - the vaccine is not 100% effective, so you choosing to let the disease run wild still puts me at risk.

2 - unvaccinated morons are occupying ALL available hospital beds. Thus, when your moronic ass runs a red light and hurts my family, we are going to have a difficult time being admitted and treated for our NON-COVID conditions.

3 - unvaccinated shitstains are a reservoir for new variants, which may make MY vac less useful soon.

These are just three obvious reasons why YOUR idiocy has negative consequences for ME. When your “freedom” harms others, it’s not freedom, it’s sociopathy.

[Captainant 28538]

36 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I think you're missing my point, which is because the vaccines are effective and every adult has had the chance to get it then covid risk is on each individual and not on others. If one believes the vaccines work then one should reasonably feel comfortable returning to normal at whatever one's particular level of risk. Said another way, acting like an adult. That was my initial point: I should not have to change my life because someone refuses a basic, common sense step of getting a vaccine. 

it really is amazing how after being crowdsourced multiple times for repeating antivaxxer talking points, you continue to double and triple down on refusing to do the most minimal of preventative measure to slow the spread of an extremely contagious respiratory virus. It takes more than "I'll be fine, fuck all yall" to get on top of this virus - we ALL have to do the small things now to avoid making bigger changes later out of desperation.

We've literally had this argument before. A year ago. Back when it was supposed to end by Easter. And then the summer would stop it. And then it was supposed to be gone after the election. And so on.

Just because we have vaccines now doesn't mean that we should drop facemask usage and social distancing - we're finding that out (again) right now. Austin is going back to stage 5. Houston is at case counts and hospitalizations that we saw last winter.

It's quantitively and qualitatively blindingly obvious that now is NOT the time to take it easy on EVERYONE doing their part to fight COVID. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Captainant

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

24 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Every single one of us forsakes liberties and changes our lives numerous times throughout the day because of the stupidity of other citizens.  Every single day.  Several times a day.  

Yep. And will continue to do likely until the end of civilization.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You dishonest fuckstick.

1 - the vaccine is not 100% effective, so you choosing to let the disease run wild still puts me at risk.

2 - unvaccinated morons are occupying ALL available hospital beds. Thus, when your moronic ass runs a red light and hurts my family, we are going to have a difficult time being admitted and treated for our NON-COVID conditions.

3 - unvaccinated shitstains are a reservoir for new variants, which may make MY vac less useful soon.

These are just three obvious reasons why YOUR idiocy has negative consequences for ME. When your “freedom” harms others, it’s not freedom, it’s sociopathy.

What are you talking about? I am not anti-vaccine. I think you might just be reflexively going to talking points. I think we probably agree, so I'm not really sure from where the vitriol is coming. 

[Guest Lobo]

Right, so I'm just asking to the broader audience, what is it about the covid vaccination that is a bridge too far for some people in a free nation of compromises?  

[Horn Dogg 4296]

2 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

We need moar shots in arms. 

I am hoping those receiving a booster now are only a small portion of the 70% number. I am full Pfizer vaccinated, but obtaining a booster has entered my mind as an option with Delta and the variants. 

There should be a way to sort through and determine how many are booster doses there are in this batch of vax numbers (perhaps by looking at the numbers of missing second shots with this wave). 

Maybe offer a choice between a shot in the arm or a shot in the head?

[Guest Lobo]

35 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I think in order to get the free Sub Sandwich, they need to be on the same card.

is there a captain's hat involved in this?  

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

I'm continually amazed at how just plain profoud the expression "one bad apple spoils the bunch" is.  Everyone agrees on something to the point of near supermajority and yet these few people who slept through class in high school can fuck everything up for the rest of us.

I mean, the stuff the antivaxxers say just doesn't pass muster at a junior high debate.  It's so obviously logically infirm.  Yet I meet people who buy it. 

I actually respect the outright liars more because the things they say, if they were true, would at least make sense.