COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[NorthLoop 14,215]

My 11yo would likely look the vaccinator dead in the eye and tell her that she's 11 and then smirk at me as we walked out the door. She's also a communist. 

[Viper 12,109]

You do you, but is the risk/reward calculation there for an 11 year old? The risk of an 11 year old to covid seems incredibly small, like 30 in a million for under 19, so I would guess even smaller for an 11 year old. While the vaccine is literally untested for that age. I'll allow that it's probably, most likely safe of course, so I'm not saying it's a big deal one way or another, but the fact that it's untested would give me pause.

of course age isn't some magic number right? If you're 11 year old is 5'2" and 130lbs then I would guess they would be closer to the 12 and up or whatever group it was tested on.  I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud here.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Viper

[Neonmoon 38,129]

3 minutes ago, Viper said:

You do you, but is the risk/reward calculation there for an 11 year old? The risk of an 11 year old to covid seems incredibly small, like 30 in a million for under 19, so I would guess even smaller for an 11 year old. While the vaccine is literally untested for that age. I'll allow that it's probably, most likely safe of course, so I'm not saying it's a big deal one way or another, but the fact that it's untested would give me pause.

Maybe some people are adding the risk of the child transmitting covid to them or someone else in the community in their risk calculation? Since the vaccine is safe, maybe they want their child protected from the possibility of unknown long term affects of Covid, however small. And it is not literally  untested for that age. Pfizer started phase 1/2/3 trials back in March. One would think if there were issues, the trials would have been halted. But the tests have not been concluded, so nothing is official. 

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results-pivotal

[Bevo 13,579]

Just now, Neonmoon said:

Maybe some people are adding the risk of the child transmitting covid to them or someone else in the community in their risk calculation? Since the vaccine is safe, maybe they want their child protected from the possibility of unknown long term affects of Covid, however small. And it is not literally  untested for that age. Pfizer started phase 1/2/3 trials back in March. One would think if there were issues, the trials would have been halted. But the tests have not been concluded, so nothing is official. 

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results-pivotal

Just anecdotal, but my niece who is an elite soccer player caught COVID in August as a 14-15yr old. She had an enlarged heart afterwards even though her symptoms otherwise were mild. As of the last time I asked, she still doesn't have the stamina that she had prior to COVID.

 

[Dahobbs 17,625]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Just anecdotal, but my niece who is an elite soccer player caught COVID in August as a 14-15yr old. She had an enlarged heart afterwards even though her symptoms otherwise were mild. As of the last time I asked, she still doesn't have the stamina that she had prior to COVID.

 

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. 

[Bevo 13,579]

28 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. 

Thanks. I'm just pointing it out as a reminder that the virus is not totally safe even for kids. Generally, I think the belief is that it isn't a big deal to get COVID as a child. That may be true, but there are outliers and it may be better for children to get the vaccine than to get the disease. I don't know the answer and I am not positive that the scientific community knows the answer either. It requires lots of data mining and time passage to determine all the risks for children.

[XYZ 2,154]

Nothing is totally safe.

[Bevo 13,579]

2 hours ago, XYZ said:

Nothing is totally safe.

True, but what we are talking about is the risk of the vaccine verses the risk of getting the disease and the risk of significant morbidity for an individual or age group if they contract the disease.

[The Dog 44,062]

Speaking of vaccines, it appears China's vaccine doesn't work very well.

[Armybrat 40,851]

5 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

My 11yo would likely look the vaccinator dead in the eye and tell her that she's 11 and then smirk at me as we walked out the door. She's also a communist. 

Don’t despair - I thought my oldest boy was a communist when he announced that he did not like chocolate at all, candy, cake, nor ice cream.

But today he is the senior VP of a major regional bank system.

[Baboontyme 2,813]

Yeah I mean it's kind of cliche at this point but in regards to kids, it's not zero sum game - death or nothing. I would like to see some data around some of these long term effects in kids vs. "the regular flu". There is a lot of weirdness with this virus that make it kind of a wild card still at this point. I certainly don't want my kids to get it before a lot of that is known.

Regardless, an acquaintance in FL took his 15 yo to get her first shot today, and they required a birth certificate for proof of age. If they're doing that in Florida, they'll probably require DNA sequencing up here. 

[Txzen 498]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:13 PM, The Dog said:

Speaking of vaccines, it appears China's vaccine doesn't work very well.

That sucks (as we’re all in this together) but perhaps not surprising that 1930s technology of an inactivated virus vaccine wasn’t going to work with this coronavirus. 

[Texas Jeff 1,945]

You go Travis County...

... 4.5% of 12-15 year olds got their first shot by the end of Saturday
... population 12 and older is over 59% first shots
... 65 and older is over 78% first shots.

join the herd everyone, it's the easy way out of this thing!

Both Texas and Travis Co are showing vaccination bumps now that 12-15 year olds are in the game...

[lmao 178]

On 5/14/2021 at 7:31 AM, Bevo said:

Thanks. I'm just pointing it out as a reminder that the virus is not totally safe even for kids. Generally, I think the belief is that it isn't a big deal to get COVID as a child. That may be true, but there are outliers and it may be better for children to get the vaccine than to get the disease. I don't know the answer and I am not positive that the scientific community knows the answer either. It requires lots of data mining and time passage to determine all the risks for children.

I don't have kids. Do children routinely get the flu vaccine? Don't remember it all during grade & hs. 

[MirrOlure 14,790]

Speaking of vaccines, it appears China's vaccine doesn't work very well.

In a response to an article from The Wall Street Journal on Seychelles, a spokeswoman for China’s foreign ministry blamed Western media for trying to discredit Chinese vaccines and “harboring the mentality that ‘everything involving China has to be smeared.’”

Fuck China

[hornian 5,219]

34 minutes ago, lmao said:

I don't have kids. Do children routinely get the flu vaccine? Don't remember it all during grade & hs. 

Mine do. 

[HouTex 1,878]

I don't have kids. Do children routinely get the flu vaccine? Don't remember it all during grade & hs. 

When our kids were young we gave them all of the vaccines that were available except the flu. Now that they are in their late 20’s they get the flu shot every year as do I. My wife hates shots so she rarely gets the seasonal flu shot. We all have been vaccinated for Covid.

[Parliament 14,260]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:13 PM, The Dog said:

Speaking of vaccines, it appears China's vaccine doesn't work very well.

I am totally surprised by this revelation!

[midtown 3,346]

I am totally surprised by this revelation!

Shocked.. I fully expect them to hack our IP and have a Mrna soon.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:28 PM, Armybrat said:

Don’t despair - I thought my oldest boy was a communist when he announced that he did not like chocolate at all, candy, cake, nor ice cream.

But today he is the senior VP of a major regional bank system.

Wait, you’re Lobo’s dad too?

[Guest Lobo]

Armybrat's my dad?  I know I didn't vote for Trump, but that doesn't make me a communist.  I love ice cream.  And I'm much more handsome than Armybrat, though he'll likely outlive me.  

[utee94 15,832]

14 hours ago, midtown said:

14 hours ago, Parliament said:

I am totally surprised by this revelation!

Shocked.. I fully expect them to hack our IP and have a Mrna soon.

I'm certain they're already trying.  But it won't be as easy as it is when they steal our technology IP, which American companies basically just hand over to the Chinese government when they agree to have their products manufactured in China, by Chinese ODMs.

 

[Rockwell Torrey 1,289]

50 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I'm certain they're already trying.  But it won't be as easy as it is when they steal our technology IP, which American companies basically just hand over to the Chinese government when they agree to have their products manufactured in China, by Chinese ODMs.

 

They are fucked.  Read this story.  I would not be surprised they unwittingly create something like this again. 
 

http://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/14128453

[Parliament 14,260]

So they're literally buying a purposely mutated virus made in a lab somewhere?  Resident Evil, Man.

[Bevo 13,579]

8 minutes ago, Parliament said:

So they're literally buying a purposely mutated virus made in a lab somewhere?  Resident Evil, Man.

“You can sequence these things, these double deletions, and if it’s exactly the same as described in the lab, it’s too much of a coincidence, because you would never get that exact deletion,” said Lucilla Steinaa, principal scientist at the International Livestock Research Institute (ILRI) in Nairobi.

There is no approved vaccine for African swine fever, which is not harmful to humans. But many Chinese farmers struggling to protect their pigs have resorted to unapproved products, industry insiders and experts said. They fear illicit vaccines have created accidental infections, which are now spreading.

 

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I'm certain they're already trying.  But it won't be as easy as it is when they steal our technology IP, which American companies basically just hand over to the Chinese government when they agree to have their products manufactured in China, by Chinese ODMs.

 

It is pretty easy. There are plenty of Chinese researchers in the US who have access. And there are plenty of scientists around the world who can be bribed. Plus, most of the stuff is freely available anyway through patents and literature.

[utee94 15,832]

20 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

 

It is pretty easy. There are plenty of Chinese researchers in the US who have access. And there are plenty of scientists around the world who can be bribed. Plus, most of the stuff is freely available anyway through patents and literature.

Still not as easy as when we hand them the complete detailed design documents, ask them to build it for us, and then tell them-- oh, and no copying, okay?

I'm an electrical engineer who has worked in semiconductors and computer manufacturing for 25 years.  We literally just hand them our IP in these fields.

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by utee94

[Bevo 13,579]

19 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Still not as easy as when we hand them the complete detailed design documents, ask them to build it for us, and then tell them-- oh, and no copying, okay?

I'm an electrical engineer who has worked in semiconductors and computer manufacturing for 25 years.  We literally just hand them our IP in these fields.

 

Oh, I understand. I have dealt with the same stuff in the past.

[dcbc 14,487]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:32 PM, Baboontyme said:

Regardless, an acquaintance in FL took his 15 yo to get her first shot today, and they required a birth certificate for proof of age. If they're doing that in Florida, they'll probably require DNA sequencing up here.

Took my 12 and 15 year old to get their shots yesterday.  It was at Walgreens and they already were in the system.  I was asked for a birth date, which they then used to look them up by name.  So if someone is going to try to slip an 11 year old under the "you must be this tall to ride" barrier, best to go somewhere where you haven't already purchased antibiotics at some point in the past for said 11 year old.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

On 5/14/2021 at 7:52 AM, Bevo said:

Just anecdotal, but my niece who is an elite soccer player caught COVID in August as a 14-15yr old. She had an enlarged heart afterwards even though her symptoms otherwise were mild. As of the last time I asked, she still doesn't have the stamina that she had prior to COVID.

 

And this is why my 14 year old got his first shot last Friday.  COVID is very unlikely to kill him.  But I don't want him to have any of these long haul issues, either.

[Txzen 498]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

And this is why my 14 year old got his first shot last Friday.  COVID is very unlikely to kill him.  But I don't want him to have any of these long haul issues, either.

Got my 14 year old vaccinated for this exact reason. He has a history of mild exercise-induced asthma as well, so I wasn't planning on taking any chances. 

[Orale 1,087]

Still not as easy as when we hand them the complete detailed design documents, ask them to build it for us, and then tell them-- oh, and no copying, okay?
I'm an electrical engineer who has worked in semiconductors and computer manufacturing for 25 years.  We literally just hand them our IP in these fields.
 

I figure we're all better off if China gets it and can more effectively vaccinate its huge population and share it with other countries as well.

[Teamdirtyleg 1,060]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:41 AM, Viper said:

You do you, but is the risk/reward calculation there for an 11 year old? The risk of an 11 year old to covid seems incredibly small, like 30 in a million for under 19, so I would guess even smaller for an 11 year old. While the vaccine is literally untested for that age. I'll allow that it's probably, most likely safe of course, so I'm not saying it's a big deal one way or another, but the fact that it's untested would give me pause.

of course age isn't some magic number right? If you're 11 year old is 5'2" and 130lbs then I would guess they would be closer to the 12 and up or whatever group it was tested on.  I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud here.

This is exactly what I try to explain to my wife and she just says’ “ well I trust my doctor and they say it’s safe”.  My response to that is  “you aren’t listening to what I’m saying.  I’m not saying it isn’t, but do our kids really need it? (especially since we all had covid in December)”  Ironically, she would be the first person to warn you of the fallacy of appeals to authority with medical doctors since she almost died around the age of 10 from multiple misdiagnoses. (As did I around 30)   She preaches second and third opinions.  
All Im saying to her is do we really need to vaccinate our kids, who already had covid, with a relatively unvetted, new style of vaccine considering that they’re in the mostly unlikely demographic to suffer the worst from it.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Teamdirtyleg

[XYZ 2,154]

I don’t understand the logic behind vaccinating people who already had covid.

[Parliament 14,260]

4 hours ago, Orale said:

19 hours ago, utee94 said:

 

I figure we're all better off if China gets it and can more effectively vaccinate its huge population and share it with other countries as well.

Still gotta manufacture it safely.  Not good if they botch it and create a buncha walkers.

2 hours ago, XYZ said:

I don’t understand the logic behind vaccinating people who already had covid.

How long does natural immunity last?  Does it last as long as vaccinated immunity?

[DaysOff 7,951]

I don’t understand the logic behind vaccinating people who already had covid.

The vaccines do a slightly better job protecting against the variants than natural immunity.

[Guest Lobo]

We don't know how long natural immunity lasts, antibodies do seem to ween down a bit after ~9 months.  Just hasn't been enough time yet to know for sure.  We don't know how long natural OR vaccinated immunity will do against variants. 

There are a bunch of obvious scenarios to get vaccinated.  But everyone should be vaccinated for the scenarios we can't think of yet.  

[The Dog 44,062]

6 hours ago, XYZ said:

I don’t understand the logic behind vaccinating people who already had covid.

Because this:

3 hours ago, DaysOff said:

The vaccines do a slightly better job protecting against the variants than natural immunity.

Proof (especially for the mRNA vaccines):

Convalescent is immunity due to being infected naturally. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are to the right and above (BNT and mRNA-1273).

CoronaVac is the Chinese vaccine. 

Covaxin is the Indian homebrewed vaccine. 

Ad26.etc is J&J; rAD26 is glorious soviet version

Chado is AZ.

[XYZ 2,154]

4 hours ago, DaysOff said:

The vaccines do a slightly better job protecting against the variants than natural immunity.

You are making my point for me. If the vaccine is only marginally better, then what’s the point?

[The Dog 44,062]

8 minutes ago, XYZ said:

You are making my point for me. If the vaccine is only marginally better, then what’s the point?

 because the variants are becoming the bigger public health concern.

[XYZ 2,154]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

 because the variants are becoming the bigger public health concern.

I don’t follow. Are the mRNA vaccines supposed to be much better than your own immunity from having had covid in the case of variants?

[The Dog 44,062]

Just now, XYZ said:

I don’t follow. Are the mRNA vaccines supposed to be much better than your own immunity from having had covid in the case of variants?

yes

[TXSooner518 2,438]

13 minutes ago, XYZ said:

You are making my point for me. If the vaccine is only marginally better, then what’s the point?

If wearing a seatbelt increased your chances of surviving an auto accident from 93-95%, would you wear it?

The vaccine is free and easily accessible. It is marginally better for each individual person than post-infection immunity. If you add up tens of millions of "marginally betters", it is HUGELY beneficial for society at large for everyone to be vaxxed.

[XYZ 2,154]

3 minutes ago, The Dog said:

yes

And do you have any proof of this?

[VelvetFreeze 114]

Why do y'all trust the the people, big pharma, who brought us oxycontin? 

 

[The Dog 44,062]

15 minutes ago, XYZ said:

And do you have any proof of this?

it's literally posted above you. 

but since you clearly need more:

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by The Dog

[XYZ 2,154]

14 minutes ago, The Dog said:

it's literally posted above you. 

but since you clearly need more:

 

What’s posted above seems to show that the “good” vaccines are slightly better than natural immunity.

[Bevo 13,579]

29 minutes ago, VelvetFreeze said:

Why do y'all trust the the people, big pharma, who brought us oxycontin? 

 

Purdue Pharma is to big pharma as Delorean and Lada are to big auto.

[Chewbacca 7,780]

38 minutes ago, XYZ said:

And do you have any proof of this?

You're just asking questions, right, Tucker?

[gmr548 16,580]

I don’t follow. Are the mRNA vaccines supposed to be much better than your own immunity from having had covid in the case of variants?

Yes. I’m not even sure that chart above factors in performance against variants such as P1 or B1351.

And do you have any proof of this?

Ask Brazil how well prior infection works against the P1 variant.

[Deej 76,830]

9 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Ask Brazil how well prior infection works against the P1 variant.