COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[CooterBrown 17,756]

Last night the Austin FC game there were no masks. I saw two people wearing them who weren’t stadium staff. Thousands of kids under 12 who wouldn’t be vaccinated, all mask free. If that event doesn’t cause a spike, I doubt anything will.

[Pato del Muerto 52,106]

18 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Got any data that isn’t 4 months old?

[HookEm 2,432]

 This is from census.gov.  1st dose stats.

[HookEm 2,432]

[utee94 15,722]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Last night the Austin FC game there were no masks. I saw two people wearing them who weren’t stadium staff. Thousands of kids under 12 who wouldn’t be vaccinated, all mask free. If that event doesn’t cause a spike, I doubt anything will.

Same thing was true when the USWNT played there 2 weeks ago.  I haven't been following, have we seen any spike from that?

[midtown 3,339]

Why would there be a spike from an outdoor event where most people are not talking to each other?  

[GRHorn 105]

 

[HouTex 1,838]

Why would there be a spike from an outdoor event where most people are not talking to each other?  

This. And even if they were talking to each other it didn’t seem to matter. I watch the numbers daily in the SE Texas area and you’d think we would have seen a spike from Memorial Day gatherings. Nada. For proof, check out SETRAC.org.

[Skipper 5,969]

 I'm glad that Fauci and other govt officials aren't falling into the trap of telling vaccinated individuals they should wear masks again given the Delta Variant like the WHO and some official in Los Angeles.   There isn't a more sure fire way to spark public backlash and lose all credibility than telling people that did the right/smart thing and got vaccinated that they need to start wearing masks everywhere to protect the anti-vaxers.  Getting more people that are hesitant vaccinated is the answer - not more masks.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,316]

Houston Chronicle article in regards to coddling the unvaccinated: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/Tomlinson-Masks-off-and-let-the-unvaccinated-pay-16282552.php

Bold is my edit

Quote

Vaccine deniers talk a good game about their freedom, but sadly society does not do enough to hold them responsible for their decisions.

This failure has profound economic costs and creates a free-rider problem. It’s easy to reject a vaccine if you don’t have to pay the financial costs of your illness. This is the persistent problem with libertarian thinking, adherents tend to take all the liberties and accept none of the consequences.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Guest Lobo]

This is not the result of libertarian-thinking.  Anti-vaccination actions are the result of Empowered Stupidity, particularly when it comes to Whites, Hispanics, and Asians who have refused it because "Muh Freedom'.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Libertarian ethos pivots immediately at "unless my free actions inhibit the freedoms of others."  Unnecessarily spreading a very communicable disease violates that prima facia.  This pandemic didn't wake up the selfish part of millions of Libertarians and make us fuck over the rest of the population.  Probably anecdotal, but in dozens or hundreds of interactions with thousands of libertarian-minded people, I can't recall meeting one anti-vaxxer in the whole mix.  The "fire your weapon until it goes 'click' and let somebody else deal with the consequences"...that mentality is not the libertarian's.  Transmittable disease is the same principle.  I consider Chris to be a great writer and friend, but he's off the rails here. 

But I don't give a shit at this point.  I checked my libertarian ideology and party membership at the door last year when people attempted to torch this country to the ground from the inside-out.  I don't have the luxury of opining on libertarian ethos anymore, I'm strictly trying to help the janitors clean the piss and shit outta the cafeteria that the "cool kids table" left behind.  It's doubly frustrating that they think they're the cool kids table, but actually they're the special needs group eating government lunches.  

[Brisketexan 103,640]

16 minutes ago, Lobo said:

This is not the result of libertarian-thinking.  Anti-vaccination actions are the result of Empowered Stupidity, particularly when it comes to Whites, Hispanics, and Asians who have refused it because "Muh Freedom'.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Libertarian ethos pivots immediately at "unless my free actions inhibit the freedoms of others."  Unnecessarily spreading a very communicable disease violates that prima facia.  This pandemic didn't wake up the selfish part of millions of Libertarians and make us fuck over the rest of the population.  Probably anecdotal, but in dozens or hundreds of interactions with thousands of libertarian-minded people, I can't recall meeting one anti-vaxxer in the whole mix.  The "fire your weapon until it goes 'click' and let somebody else deal with the consequences"...that mentality is not the libertarian's.  Transmittable disease is the same principle.  I consider Chris to be a great writer and friend, but he's off the rails here. 

But I don't give a shit at this point.  I checked my libertarian ideology and party membership at the door last year when people attempted to torch this country to the ground from the inside-out.  I don't have the luxury of opining on libertarian ethos anymore, I'm strictly trying to help the janitors clean the piss and shit outta the cafeteria that the "cool kids table" left behind.  It's doubly frustrating that they think they're the cool kids table, but actually they're the special needs group eating government lunches.  

100% this.  The things done in the name of "muh freedoms" are often diametrically opposed to the core concepts behind true libertarianism.  It's not a political belief at all.  It's just petulant selfishness for the sake of selfishness, fueled by empowered stupidity.

[Jersey Man10 3,499]

If they die, they die. I don't give a shit.

[Guest Lobo]

I think even stubborn old Rumsfeld accepted the efficacy of the vaccine and died anyway. 

[Brisketexan 103,640]

3 hours ago, Jersey Man10 said:

If they die, they die. I don't give a shit.

Sure.  But it's 1) how much they cost us all and 2) who else they take down with them.

I know of someone who is very sick with COVID, right now (we're hoping she doesn't have to go to the hospital), who was infected by a family that had NOT been vaccinated (and should have been....and we actually thought they were).  She is medically unable to be vaccinated, but the OTHER family being vaccinated would have protected her.  Their failure to do so has put her in danger.

It is a COMMUNICABLE disease.  The source word is "community" -- we are connected, and the choices of person 1 have an impact on person 2.  YOUR refusal to get a vaccine may end up killing someone else.  That's how viruses work.  It isn't hard for a functioning brain to understand.

[fattyflattie 4,633]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

Anti-vaccination actions are the result of Empowered Stupidity, particularly when it comes to Whites, Hispanics, and Asians who have refused it because "Muh Freedom'.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

Haven’t Asians been really good about getting vaccinated?   What are you contributing the lack of enthusiasm for the vaccine from the AA community? 

[Guest Lobo]

Yes, they've been the "best" group.  I was more pontificating on what was going on with those in their community that weren't being vaccinated.  It's like when I learn that a Hispanic relative of mine went vegan or quit drinking.  Who gives a shit about the other 85%, I wanna hear this guy's rationale!  

[Pimphand 5,525]

Are you freak shows going to still be jacking each other off once antibody dependent enhancement kicks in? We know you're going to blame the unvaccinated as culprits even though it was the experimental gene therapy you so gladly participated in the trials of.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5

[Guest Lobo]

the antibody dependent enhancement thing seems juxtaposed to haha simpsons .gif you got going on there.  I'm confused as the question? 

[Brisketexan 103,640]

26 minutes ago, Lobo said:

the antibody dependent enhancement thing seems juxtaposed to haha simpsons .gif you got going on there.  I'm confused as the question? 

Looks to be 1) a discussion of a hypothetical, potential risk, that 2) hasn't materialized.

Quote

vaccines that elicit neutralizing antibodies against the S protein reliably protect animals from SARS-CoV challenge without evidence of enhancement of infection or disease71,72,73. These data suggest that human immunization strategies for SARS-CoV-2 that elicit high neutralizing antibody titres have a high chance of success with minimal risk of ADE.

Bolded text: the vaccines work, and the "risk" discussed isn't actually a risk.

Next bit of quackery for the nutbars to latch onto?

[gmr548 16,313]

This is not the result of libertarian-thinking.  Anti-vaccination actions are the result of Empowered Stupidity.

[Storm the Field 5,256]

Social media was a mistake.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Wow, stupid people in groups are a threat to the rest of us?  Did not see that coming.  They're charming 1:1, laughable in small groups, but a severe threat to us all in large numbers.  Film at 11.  

Next thing you know they're gonna become self aware and rally around a central political figure.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Lobo

[Brisketexan 103,640]

10,000 Texans have died of COVID in 2021.

31 of them were vaccinated.

The vaccine became widely available in March.

.031% of dead Texans this year were vaccinated.  99.969% of dead Texans were NOT vaccinated.

For those of you who are utterly terrible at math......the vaccinated group has MUCH better outcomes than the unvaccinated group, and it's not even close.

[DDD Dad 14,074]

Fuck the WHO. 
Can we possibly fuck up the messaging more?

They were never the same after Keith Moon died.

[Guest Lobo]

46 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

10,000 Texans have died of COVID in 2021.

31 of them were vaccinated.

The vaccine became widely available in March.

.031% of dead Texans this year were vaccinated.  99.969% of dead Texans were NOT vaccinated.

For those of you who are utterly terrible at math......the vaccinated group has MUCH better outcomes than the unvaccinated group, and it's not even close.

Yeah but you’re not taking into account the cost of freedom.  And the price we are willing to pay as Texans to not be inoculated against our will!  Sure the delta is 99.7%, but I’d gladly pay twice that for my freedom.  What would you do?

[Brisketexan 103,640]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah but you’re not taking into account the cost of freedom.  And the price we are willing to pay as Texans to not be inoculated against our will!  Sure the delta is 99.7%, but I’d gladly pay twice that for my freedom.  What would you do?

Freedom is for pussies.  I'd rather have freedomer, or even freedomest.

No vaccines, seatbelts, life preservers, or an of that pussy libtard shit for me!  FREEDOM....EST!

[hornian 5,165]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

10,000 Texans have died of COVID in 2021.

31 of them were vaccinated.

The vaccine became widely available in March.

.031% of dead Texans this year were vaccinated.  99.969% of dead Texans were NOT vaccinated.

For those of you who are utterly terrible at math......the vaccinated group has MUCH better outcomes than the unvaccinated group, and it's not even close.

Stealing this and posting to FB, without attribution. You can like my post if you want, though. 

 

[utee94 15,722]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

10,000 Texans have died of COVID in 2021.

31 of them were vaccinated.

The vaccine became widely available in March.

.031% of dead Texans this year were vaccinated.  99.969% of dead Texans were NOT vaccinated.

For those of you who are utterly terrible at math......the vaccinated group has MUCH better outcomes than the unvaccinated group, and it's not even close.

Agree with the sentiment.

But the vaccine wasn't "widely available in March."  Healthy Texans under 50 couldn't even sign up for it, until 3/30.  And first-shot appointments within 20 miles of your house were very hard to come by until about 4/15 (J&J was off the market at the time).  Which means at the very earliest,  we can say "widespread ability to be fully vaccinated occurred by about 5/28.

Again, I agree with the sentiment, but exaggerating the availability doesn't help make the case.  The numbers by themselves, make the case.

 

 

[Brisketexan 103,640]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Agree with the sentiment.

But the vaccine wasn't "widely available in March."  Healthy Texans under 50 couldn't even sign up for it, until 3/30.  And first-shot appointments within 20 miles of your house were very hard to come by until about 4/15 (J&J was off the market at the time).  Which means at the very earliest,  we can say "widespread ability to be fully vaccinated occurred by about 5/28.

Again, I agree with the sentiment, but exaggerating the availability doesn't help make the case.  The numbers by themselves, make the case.

 

 

Fair.....but among the groups most likely to die from COVID, it was widely available by March (indeed, before March for that group).  So -- and I freely admit, we don't have detailed data on how many of those 10,000 dead actually COULD have been vaccinated, and we know some couldn't have because it's total deaths for the year, and even reasonable early availability to the vulnerable wasn't a thing till late February or so -- the point remains that the people most likely to die of COVID have been able to get the vaccine for 4 of the past 6 months.

Shit, even if half of our deaths were "post vaccine availability," then the numbers are .062% of deaths being vaccinated people, and 99.938% being unvaccinated.  The differential is staggering.

[rpspeed 1,346]

 

free beer saves the world..

[PenelopeWitherspoon 18,507]

Cross posted from Cloak Room COVID Thread. From a purse science perspective, thr WHO loses credibility given what we know about the effectiveness of these Chinese vaccines.

https://news.yahoo.com/un-approved-vaccine-allowed-travel-123932417.html

[hornian 5,165]

22 hours ago, hornian said:

Stealing this and posting to FB, without attribution. You can like my post if you want, though. 

 

Welp @Brisketexan, now you know the type of people I grew up with.

You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons.

[DigglerontheHoof 20,593]

I wish death on Zuckerberg almost as much as dotard.

[Surly Bevo 24,596]

3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I wish death on Zuckerberg almost as much as dotard.

Jobs put it in every pocket and he's dead so halfway home...

[3adays 454]

12 hours ago, rpspeed said:

 

free beer saves the world..

X, 1, X 

[GreenspointTexas 9,386]

Oakland zoo has a greater percentage of animals vaccinated than 32 states iirc

[Brisketexan 103,640]

Oakland zoo has a greater percentage of animals vaccinated than 32 states iirc

Well, that’s animals there have a collective IQ higher than those of 32 states, so…..

[UT_OB1 2,197]

Anyone here involved with the outbreak in clear lake?  Would be interesting to know if it was picked up due to random testing that then caused contact tracing.  Says some of the positives were vaccine break through

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-experts-suggest-you-do-after-hundreds-exposed-during-covid-outbreak-at-ministry-camp/ar-AALPQ2K?ocid=hplocalnews

[BonzoMontreaux 1,032]

This is NOT related to the Clear Lake outbreak but it is a post vaccine case... I personally know an elderly man that is in the hospital with Covid and he is on a ventilator\ICU.  He has been vaccinated but I haven't asked about a particular vaccine.  He is being treated for a possible pulmonary embolism.  

[utee94 15,722]

A friend of my sister's, early 30s, who is a server at a restaurant in Austin, got COVID back in October.  It was a symptomatic case but not enough to put her in the hospital. 

She then got vaccinated in April/May.

She now has it again, again not enough to put her in the hospital but she has a hacking cough and severe headaches.

That would suck.

I think we're going to find that some people are just more likely to be affected by it.  I haven't heard much discussion on blood type since the beginning of all of this back in 2020, but I'd be interested to see a comprehensive study targeted at determining what constitutes higher personal risk factors for contracting it, and for having symptoms, and then for having severe symptoms.  It just can't be random.

 

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

So now there's a Lambda variant that may be even stronger than Alpha/Beta.  Something to do with a limp-wristed infection style.

[Guest Lobo]

I wouldn't worry about it, a lot of top scientists at Lamar University are working on a bio-physics solution.  And Lewis and Gilbert will be joining in.  

[StruggleBus 3,922]

23 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

So now there's a Lambda variant that may be even stronger than Alpha/Beta.  Something to do with a limp-wristed infection style.

Meh. They've said the exact same things about every variant of concern so far. None of them seem to be that concerning. 

[Guest Lobo]

5 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Meh. They've said the exact same things about every variant of concern so far. None of them seem to be that concerning. 

That's what the anti-science folks at the Alpha/Beta house of denial say.  Dr. Dean Ulich and his team have been very clear in the support of the Lambda research team.  There's even a threat of a Tri-Lambda strain.  I'm more of a booger than a poindexter, but I'd be very worried if I were us.  

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

That's what the anti-science folks at the Alpha/Beta house of denial say.  Dr. Dean Ulich and his team have been very clear in the support of the Lambda research team.  There's even a threat of a Tri-Lambda strain.  I'm more of a booger than a poindexter, but I'd be very worried if I were us.  

I read that it causes mopery.

[dcbc 14,282]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:16 PM, Liquor and Poker said:

I read that it causes mopery.

[C-Man 26,727]

This might get some unvaccinated people to get vaxxed! (SIAP)

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-06/can-covid-19-cause-lasting-erectile-dysfunction

Strong sales pitch (from quoted text): 

But the plausible relationship between COVID-19 and erectile dysfunction is one more reason for the unvaccinated to get their shots, Jannini said.

“Having vaccinations leads to having more sex,” he quipped. “I would suggest for young people to get their vaccinations: If they want to have sex, better to get the vaccine.”

Quote

Can COVID-19 cause lasting erectile dysfunction?

This is now the topic of some discussion among doctors and health experts as they try to better understand the effects of the coronavirus. The problem has been observed in some patients, but experts agree more study is needed to form any conclusions.

Some men are coming into doctors’ offices saying erectile dysfunction has occurred following a COVID-19 infection, said Dr. Ryan Berglund, a urologist at the Cleveland Clinic. At the moment, there’s primarily anecdotal evidence, and “we don’t know the scale of the problem at this point.”

Berglund stressed that it had not been proved that COVID-19 causes erectile dysfunction.

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Observational studies need to be done, he said, adding that a helpful one would be to study men in the same age group with similar health status to see if rates of erectile dysfunction differ depending on whether they have the coronavirus.

“That, we haven’t gotten to yet,” Berglund said.

It would not be surprising if COVID-19 harmed male sexual health, said Dr. Emmanuele Jannini, professor of endocrinology and medical sexology at the University of Rome Tor Vergata, who has written extensively on the subject.

Erectile dysfunction could be a symptom of “long COVID,” he said, an array of symptoms that can last months after the initial coronavirus infection. Common symptoms of long COVID include difficulty breathing, chest pain, heart palpitations and loss of smell or taste.

ADVERTISEMENT

Jannini said he suspected the risk was higher in patients who suffered from pneumonia accompanying COVID-19, which triggers inflammation of the blood vessels — specifically, endothelial cells that line the body’s blood vessels.

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When those blood vessels and the rest of the cardiovascular system are harmed, it can trigger erectile dysfunction, Jannini said. He suspects that when a coronavirus infection leads to erectile dysfunction, it can last long after the initial bout with COVID-19 has passed.

Unlike some other mammals that have a bone in their penis that contributes to an erection, erections in humans are solely generated through blood flow, Berglund said — specifically, a dilation of arteries that brings more blood flow to the penis than can exit it. “So anything that could affect the ability of the artery to effectively deliver sufficient blood supply to create an erection could lead to erectile dysfunction,” he said.

In much the same way inflammation of the heart muscle, or myocarditis, can occur as a consequence of COVID-19, it is plausible that erectile dysfunction could occur from the disease.

“It’s also the blood vessels themselves that can become inflamed,” Berglund said, “which could cause an obstructive phenomenon and negatively impact the ability to get erections.”

Lasting erectile dysfunction associated with COVID-19 has consequences beyond sexual activity. It can be an indicator of related disease of the heart and blood vessels, he said, and those suffering from it should tell a doctor and get a regular heart checkup.

“The most concerning thing here would be that erectile dysfunction related to the disease may be an indicator of other underlying vascular disease related to COVID,” Berglund said. Vascular disease refers to coronary artery disease, which can lead to a myocardial infarction, commonly referred to as a heart attack, he added.

Here, in short, are several of the reasons COVID-19 could contribute to persisting erectile dysfunction or otherwise impair male sexual health:

Pneumonia from COVID-19 causes blood vessels to become inflamed

Pneumonia from COVID-19 can cause blood vessels to become inflamed, leading to restricted blood flow, which can contribute to erectile dysfunction, Jannini said.

“Very often,” said Berglund, “the development of erectile dysfunction is related to the development of vascular disease.”

And it’s now becoming clear that some patients with COVID-19 are suffering from inflamed blood vessels, he added.

“This is not an uncommon problem with other viral infections,” Berglund said. “It’s just that the scale of this viral infection and the severity of it have probably led to a higher incidence of vascular-related disease and vascular inflammatory disease than other viral infections.”

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Pneumonia caused by COVID-19 harms blood oxygen levels

Pneumonia can lead to lung damage that can reduce a person’s ability to get enough oxygen in the blood, Jannini said. That can reduce the ability to maintain an erection.

It’s well established that a lack of sufficient oxygen in the blood can lead to erectile dysfunction, he said.

COVID-19 may damage the cells that produce testosterone

It’s possible the coronavirus infects cells in the testicles, including Leydig cells that produce testosterone, the male sex hormone, which affects libido and desire.

A review of scientific literature on possible ways erectile dysfunction can develop in COVID-19 survivors, which Jannini coauthored, says Leydig cells also have a protein called ACE2 — the same protein the coronavirus uses to begin infecting human cells. Autopsies of people who have died from COVID-19 show “significantly reduced Leydig cells,” the review said.

Berglund called this hypothesis reasonable, but it hasn’t been proved.

Lacking a sense of smell may affect arousal

An inability to pick up scents can reduce the ability to become aroused, Jannini said.

Depression and anxiety from the pandemic may contribute

The effects of the pandemic, including losing jobs and the impact of stay-at-home orders, can also affect people’s moods and contribute to erectile dysfunction, Jannini said.

“There is a strong, emotional, psychological component,” Berglund said, “to being able to get an erection — quote-unquote ‘being in the mood.’”

Berglund said he had patients he knew could get an erection because they would wake up with one. “But when the time comes to be intimate, they can’t actually get an erection.

“And we know that the disease has caused a tremendous amount of stress on people,” he said, “and that can affect your ability to get erections.”

More study is needed

When people get an illness, they tend to blame the illness for things that happen, Berglund said, even if the illness isn’t the cause of the problem.

But the plausible relationship between COVID-19 and erectile dysfunction is one more reason for the unvaccinated to get their shots, Jannini said.

“Having vaccinations leads to having more sex,” he quipped. “I would suggest for young people to get their vaccinations: If they want to have sex, better to get the vaccine.”

 

[Pato del Muerto 52,106]

20 minutes ago, C-Man said:

This might get some unvaccinated people to get vaxxed! (SIAP)

Doubt it. People believe what they want to believe and discount what they don’t. 
 

If covid vaccination isn’t proof of that, here’s some science that should be very important to pregnant women.  But it’s not. 
 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10706945/

 

The present study shows that oral sex and swallowing sperm is correlated with a diminished occurrence of preeclampsia which fits in the existing idea that a paternal factor is involved in the occurrence of preeclampsia

Edited July 8, 2021 by Pato del Muerto

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2,624]

On 7/6/2021 at 10:07 AM, UT_OB1 said:

Anyone here involved with the outbreak in clear lake?  Would be interesting to know if it was picked up due to random testing that then caused contact tracing.  Says some of the positives were vaccine break through

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-experts-suggest-you-do-after-hundreds-exposed-during-covid-outbreak-at-ministry-camp/ar-AALPQ2K?ocid=hplocalnews

One of my employee’s kid and wife got it from that. All unvaccinated. Fucker came to work and said he was late due to having to take care of sick family members. WTF.   Told him to GTF out.