COVID-19 vaccine discussion

[dcar00 13957]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I will say this -- I very much agree with the conclusion that we need some honest policy discussion about the outcome we are going to get, and what we should shoot for.  And in either case, this will be an endemic illness, and more people are going to die.  But that is the case with the measles, the flu, and other illnesses, and we've demonstrated that we can live with that kind of outcome.

Elimination of infections is not an achievable goal, no matter how well we do from here on out.  Neither is elimination of further variants, of hospitalizations, or of deaths.  COVID will be among us for decades to come, it will occasionally mutate to a more dangerous/vaccine-evasive form, and we'll need boosters, and not everyone will get the boosters, so the virus will still do what viruses do.

And that's the best we're going to do.

Human ingenuity gave us a way to all but defeat COVID.  But human stupidity is stronger and ultimately will win, so we just need to negotiate the best armistice that we can.

eh, we weren't ever going to all but defeat Covid even with the vaccines.  while seemingly very effective, we really don't truly know how effective they are yet. just not enough data/time.  plenty of vax'd are getting reinfected.  

its here but I do agree it will dissipate to a normal virus level that will unfortunately hit the most vulnerablethe worst.

[Homercles 10205]

2 minutes ago, Jersey Man10 said:

Why would you think you have it?

I don’t think I do, and doubt I’m one of the 1% of break through cases.  Guess I just haven’t been sick in a couple years and had to answer a ton of covid-related questions leading up to making the appt.  

[Homercles 10205]

6 minutes ago, Jersey Man10 said:

Why would you think you have it?

Dupe

Edited July 19, 2021 by Homercles

[Anastasis 23214]

15 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I don’t think I do, and doubt I’m one of the 1% of break through cases.  Guess I just haven’t been sick in a couple years and had to answer a ton of covid-related questions leading up to making the appt.  

Lots of OC43 (another coronavirus) and other things popping up now. Next bad influenza season is going to be a real shit show. 

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Human ingenuity gave us a way to all but defeat COVID.  But human stupidity is stronger and ultimately will win, so we just need to negotiate the best armistice that we can.

Agree with most of your post but have to disagree here. I realize people want someone to blame when things go bad, but it looks like the vaccines were never going to all but defeat covid.
 

We rolled them out as fast as we could. Spread them around a decent percentage of the world. The violent outbreak in India almost a year into the pandemic created the Delta variant which appears to be so contagious it gets around the vaccines to an extent. Look at country with better vaxx compliance than us. Israel, UK are getting hit now. Nature finds a way. We will all be exposed and if you’re vaccinated before you get it you will do better. The hard part will be getting there.

[Surly Bevo 24596]

A consistently reliable treatment ON TOP of a vaccine....that's how this really has to end.

[rpspeed 1346]

Hospital my wife works at had 20 admits two weeks ago, 26 one week ago and 44 today.They are working on setting up their negative pressure floor again but running into staffing issues. They relied on a lot of RAC?(think thats what she called them) nurses during the last peak. Also, a lot of the PRNs that made a killing during the winter have been taking the summer off.

[texhorn 351]

Is the FDA going to ever fully approve the two mRNA vaccines? What the fuck are we waiting on at this point?

[Heme Doc 417]

37 minutes ago, texhorn said:

Is the FDA going to ever fully approve the two mRNA vaccines? What the fuck are we waiting on at this point?

Great question.  What the fuck more do they want to see in terms of efficacy and safety?

[Pato del Muerto 52106]

1 minute ago, Heme Doc said:

Great question.  What the fuck more do they want to see in terms of efficacy and safety?

Apparently they are like 30% of the population who need to see 40 years worth of data before deciding on safety. Long term affects are unknown!

[Nivek 16688]

I have a high opinion of physicians but the opinion of one physician doesn’t mean much. They also may not have much other vaccine information than you have. Obviously they have more overall medical knowledge than a non-physician but I imagine there are many non-physicians that know more about the vaccine than every single physician.
Vaccinating kids for covid is a tough call for parents. There is no right answer, imo. You don’t know until later and then it’s too late.

Oh there is a right answer if you love your kid. And an answer if you think your step-child sucks.

Being a parent involves making difficult decisions and sometimes checking emotions over logic.

[dcar00 13957]

30 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Great question.  What the fuck more do they want to see in terms of efficacy and safety?

why does it matter?

[Guest Lobo]

The formal approval from emergency authorized use to standard use can take some time and does require more data across various subsets.  

But here's where we were and here's where we are:

2019:  "The FDA is another government bureaucracy that has too much red tape, and they hold up live-saving vaccines and therapeutics!"

2020:  "Remove all FDA barriers to vaccine development!"

2021:  "I feel like things were rushed...I mean, I don't feel comfortable with a drug that's still only emergency authorized and not regular authorized.  I mean, I think some more government study of the vaccines and their long-term effects is really what's needed here.  I've been reading a lot on facebook so I'm pretty much up to speed on all this.  More government oversight and steady timelines with proper regulation are what most Americans want right now."  

[texhorn 351]

The formal approval from emergency authorized use to standard use can take some time and does require more data across various subsets.  
But here's where we were and here's where we are:
2019:  "The FDA is another government bureaucracy that has too much red tape, and they hold up live-saving vaccines and therapeutics!"
2020:  "Remove all FDA barriers to vaccine development!"
2021:  "I feel like things were rushed...I mean, I don't feel comfortable with a drug that's still only emergency authorized and not regular authorized.  I mean, I think some more government study of the vaccines and their long-term effects is really what's needed here.  I've been reading a lot on facebook so I'm pretty much up to speed on all this.  More government oversight and steady timelines with proper regulation are what most Americans want right now."  

Late 2021: vaccine is fully approved. FDA is a political organization that can’t be trusted.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, I forgot about that one. 

2023:  "All is lost!  Take the damn shots at the Cheyenne Mountain underground depot if you can make it before the tide comes in.  The Delta Mutants have reclaimed Cincinnati and the Anti-Vaxx Army has burned all of Idaho.  Field Marshal J. McCarthy has ordered Gen. Taylor-Greene to sack the CDC by the next full moon.  The virus is due to become self-aware at the Solstice!.  We were wrong Lord, why have you forsaken us?.....Oh wait.  Hey look CVS just got some time slots.  Sweet." 

 

[dcar00 13957]

Looks like UK is saying no for healthy under 18 due to cautionary approach and that covid 19 symptoms are almost exclusively mild.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2648]

......and because they're out of Pfizer 'til September 

[Guest Lobo]

Miss, are you telling us absolutely everything?

not exactly, we’re also just if coffee.

ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

[rpspeed 1346]

Y'all still think we are going to get herd immunity

[utee94 15722]

3 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

Y'all still think we are going to get herd immunity

Robert Weaver sounds like he sucks.

He definitely has a stupid take, but yes, eventually we'll reach herd immunity.  Either by vaccination or infection.  Eschewing the former means tacitly choosing the latter.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by utee94

[Captainant 26926]

19 minutes ago, utee94 said:

eventually we'll reach herd immunity.  Either by vaccination or infection.  Eschewing the former means tacitly choosing the latter.

Presuming that a new mutation doesn't come out of the unvaxxed masses that are dead set on being human petri dishes for the virus.

[midtown 3339]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Presuming that a new mutation doesn't come out of the unvaxxed masses that are dead set on being human petri dishes for the virus.

Yup.  But when you look at the world and the possibility of variants continuing to come out of countries where vaccines are slow to be pushed out, if even available at all and its going to be an issue for years most likely.  Certainly the morons in the US where vaccines are available and free aren't helping.

[utee94 15722]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Presuming that a new mutation doesn't come out of the unvaxxed masses that are dead set on being human petri dishes for the virus.

That's a small concern compared to the billions of people worldwide that will never be able to get the vaccine because their location/regions lack the resources, capabilities, and access.  It will continue to spread and mutate within that population indefinitely, and it will inevitably be reintroduced back into the vaccinated population, because there's absolutely no way to keep those populations isolated from one another.

But even with all of that, eventually this specific coronavirus will no longer be novel, and humans will build up the same sort of tolerance that we have to any number of other coronaviruses that attack us on an annual basis and cause illnesses like the common cold.  It will still be here-- it will ALWAYS be here among us-- but it will no longer be as lethal to the vulnerable segments of our population, as it is right now.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by utee94

[Nice Guy Eddie 13316]

57 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

Y'all still think we are going to get herd immunity

The amount of disinformation is scary. Either through ignorance or from bad actors with a goal of chaos.

[Jersey Man10 3499]

My town is full of morons.

[StruggleBus 3922]

Jesus fuck those are painful to read

[InkaUtexas 24932]

seems like someone escaped TexAgs. 

[GTX Horn 1700]

Interestingly it says 25% of these breakthrough cases are asymptomatic and also attributes some of the cases to people with immune systems that respond slowly to the vaccines (I guess that would mean they received the vaccine fairly recently?) It would be interesting to see a breakdown of which vaccines the “breakthrough” cases had received and how many of them are actually resulting in hospitalizations too.

[Chewbacca 7622]

1 hour ago, rpspeed said:

Y'all still think we are going to get herd immunity

He just may die for this.  So stupid.

[Pato del Muerto 52106]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

He just may die for this.  So stupid.

Seems like a great result to me. 

[Armybrat 40559]

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-lab-some-existing-drugs-could-stop-covid-at-almost-100-percent-674426

Quote

Scientists from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem say they have identified several drugs that could potentially help treat, if not “cure,” people who develop COVID-19.

 

Prof. Shy Arkin, a biochemist in the Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science, told The Jerusalem Post that in lab tests in which cells infected with SARS-CoV-2 were placed together with the drugs for two days, “almost 100% of the cells lived despite being infected with the virus.”

 

In contrast, without the preexisting drug compounds, around 50% of the cells died after coming in contact with the virus.

 

Arkin and his team culled through a library of more than 2,800 approved-for-use compounds, identifying 18 drugs they felt could be effective. In unpublished work, the researchers were able to show that several of these compounds “exhibited remarkable potency against the whole virus in in vitro experiments.”

 

Two of them are Darapladib, used for the treatment of atherosclerosis, and Flumatinib, used for the treatment of certain blood cancers. Arkin said he was hesitant to share the names of any of the drugs, adding that he could not recommend them until they underwent proper clinical trials.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Armybrat

[Homercles 10205]

Well, PCP and Minute Clinic wouldn’t see me for sinus symptoms unless I’d been tested recently.  None had open appointments for a rapid for at least a day.  Pharmacist said try the at-home set and if both are negative, should rule out covid as I’d had symptoms for five days.  They were, and my sinuses are slowly getting better on their own.  
 

A month ago you could get a rapid test at the drop of a hat at multiple places.  Both a PCP and doc-in-a-box now require tests to be seen for any covid-type symptoms, regardless of vaccination cards.  
 

Further evidence we are once again climbing up this shit hill.  Damnit.  

Edited July 21, 2021 by Homercles

[lmao 178]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:38 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

I have a high opinion of physicians but the opinion of one physician doesn’t mean much. They also may not have much other vaccine information than you have. Obviously they have more overall medical knowledge than a non-physician but I imagine there are many non-physicians that know more about the vaccine than every single physician.

Vaccinating kids for covid is a tough call for parents. There is no right answer, imo. You don’t know until later and then it’s too late.

You don't think its a problem if physicians are self-censoring? The practice of medicine is determined by physicians' judgment, training, & the dialectic between them, not by bureaucrats that do not practice medicine. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13316]

49 minutes ago, lmao said:

You don't think its a problem if physicians are self-censoring? The practice of medicine is determined by physicians' judgment, training, & the dialectic between them, not by bureaucrats that do not practice medicine. 

I don't know what you mean by that. But I do think that the general consensus of physicians, the healthcare industry and vaccine developers are more knowledgeable about vaccines than an individual physician. A primary care doc cannot know 100% about everything in healthcare. No one can. 

If you tell your doctor that you don't trust the vaccine and you're not going to get it, your doc is only going to lecture you so far if they see it's a lost cause. Instead they will at least try to convince you to protect yourself from exposure to COVID. That doesn't mean the doctor agrees with your anti-vaccine stance but they're taking their wins with you however they can find it.

[Heme Doc 417]

Got the email for Pfizer booster study today.  Hope to get the shot next week.  The study is looking at 10,000 patients previously vaccinated with Pfizer at least 6 months ago.  Double blinded.  Half get placebo, half get booster.  Kind of a small sample size but we shall see.  
 

So while you assholes are dying from breakthrough COVID, I’ll be sitting on a beach, earning 20 percent

Edited July 21, 2021 by Heme Doc

[Anastasis 23214]

4 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Got the email for Pfizer booster study today.  Hope to get the shot next week.  The study is looking at 10,000 patients previously vaccinated with Pfizer at least 6 months ago.  Double blinded.  Half get placebo, half get booster.  Kind of a small sample size but we shall see.  
 

So while you assholes are dying from breakthrough COVID, I’ll be sitting on a beach, earning 20 percent

Hope that the random number generator shakes out in your favor. 

[Pato del Muerto 52106]

6 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Got the email for Pfizer booster study today.  Hope to get the shot next week.  The study is looking at 10,000 patients previously vaccinated with Pfizer at least 6 months ago.  Double blinded.  Half get placebo, half get booster.  Kind of a small sample size but we shall see.  
 

So while you assholes are dying from breakthrough COVID, I’ll be sitting on a beach, earning 20 percent

Though there’s only a 50% chance of that 

[dcbc 14282]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Though there’s only a 50% chance of that 

But 50% of the time, it works 95% of the time.

[Anastasis 23214]

9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Though there’s only a 50% chance of that 

LOL.  Heme Doc's probably gonna go get a quantitative spike assay 2 weeks after the booster and break the blinding. 

[Anastasis 23214]

Shit, given the expected reactivity, he probably won't even need to do that to know what arm he is in. 

[BillyBadAss 187]

New studies showing J&J less effective against variants.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/health/coronavirus-johnson-vaccine-delta.html

 

Has anyone tried, or anyone know - if someone who got J&J can just walk into HEB and get a single mRNA shot?  

 

Edit to add:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/20/dr-vin-gupta-encourages-jj-vaccine-recipients-to-get-a-pfizer-or-moderna-booster.html

Edited July 21, 2021 by BillyBadAss

[CHIEF 5045]

21 minutes ago, BillyBadAss said:

New studies showing J&J less effective against variants.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/health/coronavirus-johnson-vaccine-delta.html

 

Has anyone tried, or anyone know - if someone who got J&J can just walk into HEB and get a single mRNA shot?  

I'm sure you could at our rural HEB. My wife and I took the J&J, because it is a viral vector vaccine. Not sold on mRNAs at this time. I just don't know enough about them. If I had COVID, it was asymptomatic. Wife was down for about 4 days. If the symptoms are less severe, we are willing to take the chance on reinfection.

CHIEF

[BillyBadAss 187]

7 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I'm sure you could at our rural HEB.

I don't think availability is a problem. I see hundreds on the HEB appt site within a few miles of me. What I'm unware of is whether there are any checks in place to prevent people from getting "booster" shots in Texas, and/or if I was honest and told them I've got J&J if they would still give me an mRNA or tell me to take a hike. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13316]

There isn't any system that validates whether you've already had a shot or not. The place where you received the original shot(s) are maintaining those records just in case you need to prove you're vaccinated. The state or the feds don't have that record by name.

I think pretty much anyone can walk into a random vaccine center and get another vaccine even if you're already vaccinated. Make sure you somewhat know what you're doing before taking that path.

Since I believe that we will almost certainly have booster shots by the end of year with the same formula, I've thought about going for a 3rd Pfizer.

[drt 637]

25 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I'm sure you could at our rural HEB. My wife and I took the J&J, because it is a viral vector vaccine. Not sold on mRNAs at this time. I just don't know enough about them. If I had COVID, it was asymptomatic. Wife was down for about 4 days. If the symptoms are less severe, we are willing to take the chance on reinfection.

CHIEF

Dunno how old you are but considering J&J does poorly against Delta, and the mRNA ones do fairly well, you might reconsider this stance. 

[Heme Doc 417]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

LOL.  Heme Doc's probably gonna go get a quantitative spike assay 2 weeks after the booster and break the blinding. 

I’m actually going to go just before and get the assay.  Curious to know where I’m at almost one year since getting my first shot

[Heme Doc 417]

Just now, Heme Doc said:

I’m actually going to go just before and get the assay.  Curious to know where I’m at almost one year since getting my first shot

I haven’t had COVID, btw.  And I’ve been skiing, Disney world, Sedona, Schlitterbahn, and God knows what else just this year.  

[Heme Doc 417]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Shit, given the expected reactivity, he probably won't even need to do that to know what arm he is in. 

Truth

[Brisketexan 103640]

45 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I'm sure you could at our rural HEB. My wife and I took the J&J, because it is a viral vector vaccine. Not sold on mRNAs at this time. I just don't know enough about them. If I had COVID, it was asymptomatic. Wife was down for about 4 days. If the symptoms are less severe, we are willing to take the chance on reinfection.

CHIEF

 

17 minutes ago, drt said:

Dunno how old you are but considering J&J does poorly against Delta, and the mRNA ones do fairly well, you might reconsider this stance. 

This.  Chief, you're my friend.  mRNA vector treatment is not a novel mystery.  This has been in the works for decades.  And the data is showing that the mRNA vectors are much more effective against this new and dangerous variant.  Get an mRNA follow up.

[midtown 3339]

30 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

ince I believe that we will almost certainly have booster shots by the end of year with the same formula, I've thought about going for a 3rd Pfizer.

Not that I disagree with you but holy shit...self medicating.   Really think people should tap the brakes here and not experiment with these.