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Markets still falling like whoa

Llano Estacado

By Llano Estacado
in Business and Markets

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Eastwood
Eastwood

That's why I'm out. There is no end game, IMO. This has to be fixed outside of the market and I got too nervous about what that entails for retail investors. They will always be last on the list, if o

Rusty Shackelford
Rusty Shackelford
Eastwood
Eastwood

I'm not a financial advisor. This is not financial advise. I don't work in finance. I do not have a degree in finance. Actually, I have a BA and I'm bad at math past Cal I. I won't apologize for the l

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Parliament

Parliament 14262

Posted
Posted

Our best example of this is 9-11, when they closed it for 4 days.

Anticipating market chaos, panic selling and a disastrous loss of value in the wake of the attacks, the NYSE and the Nasdaq remained closed until September 17, the longest shutdown since 1933. Moreover, many trading, brokerage, and other financial firms had offices in the World Trade Center and were unable to function in the wake of the tragic loss of life and collapse of both towers.

On the first day of NYSE trading after 9/11, the market fell 684 points, a 7.1% decline, setting a record for the biggest loss in exchange history for one trading day. At the close of trading that Friday, ending a week that saw the biggest losses in NYSE history, the Dow Jones was down almost 1,370 points, representing a loss of over 14%. The Standard and Poor's (S&P) index lost 11.6%. An estimated $1.4 trillion in value was lost in those five days of trading.

Not sure how the trading limits worked back then.

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0911/how-september-11-affected-the-u.s.-stock-market.aspx

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54274

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

didn't read previous pages but question, what happens if you close the stock markets for awhile? seriously, what's the impact? companies can't raise money? what else?

The NYSE, NASDAQ, etc, have zero to do with companies raising money.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 12002

Posted
Posted (edited)

Oil under $30.

Houston, we have a problem.

Better get that refi in now... I can’t see housing prices staying up (at least on the west side of town) .... and with all the economies shuttering / the supply chain clusterfuck, downstream might be heavily impacted as well.

 

(I’m assuming that whoever is refi’ing is not quite at the 80% LTV yet)

Edited by Dnaguy
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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Parliament said:

I've read that companies are maxing out their revolving credit lines; drawing whatever they can borrow into their checking accounts or whatever.  They don't need the cash right now, but wanna have it on hand in case their credit lines are pulled.  Seems that would create a liquidity problem for banks?  If I understand that correct.

In 2008 money market accounts were roiled quite a bit.  Some almost went broke and many of the rest stopped allowing new accounts. (Existing customers could still deposit whatever they wanted.)  I haven't heard anything like that this time.  Should we not be concerned?

We just did this.  Our PE partner asked all their portfolio companies to do the same.  Seems they’re preparing for the worst and hoping for the best...better prepared than 2008.  Banks positioned much better

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31507

Posted
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Just now, TonyTexas said:

So IPOs and secondary offerings have nothing to do with the exchanges?  While not significant, they are certainly not zero. 

I think they are sufficiently negligible that the pure capital raise functions of the market continue virtually uninterrupted with closed markets.  To the extent anyone would try a capital raise in this environment.

The real alleged function of the exchanges is to provide liquidity in the capital markets.  While I believe a lot of that contribution is severely overstated, closing the markets entirely would be problematic.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Thetexashammer said:

Even if it drops 50%, who would look around and say "shit everything's cheap!"? That's the danger of having such amazingly high multiples, once we try and find a bottom, it's a long way down. Never mind that entire industries will come close to liquidating and that banks are probably fucked again.

Get out your Down 10,000 hats.

Yes.  They need to shutter the markets.

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52-80

52-80 19185

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Parliament said:

$VOO is Vanguard's S&P 500 index fund?  What makes them so special?

in and of itself?  nothing....just very low management fees for those wanting to index

functionally?  its a vehicle for gamblers to do options trading

Edited by 52-80
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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 12002

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

in and of itself?  nothing.  functionally?  its a vehicle for gamblers to do options trading

How does option trading work?

i mean I kind of understand what an option is by definition, but am way too out of my league in understanding what it is in actuality / how it actually works.

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We’reTexas

We’reTexas 1473

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

So IPOs and secondary offerings have nothing to do with the exchanges?  While not significant, they are certainly not zero. 

They actually don’t. Underwriters distribute their allocations and then trading begins through exchanges. There are direct listing IPOs I guess but those aren’t really about capital raising. 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

While I understand that line of thinking, I'm afraid that if they close them up, then they may never open again

Image result for it's a wonderful life "if you close the bank"

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

No way.  Underlying fundamentals, after this calms, are fine. 
This is all panic. Is only gonna get worse. 

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52-80

52-80 19185

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

How does option trading work?

i mean I kind of understand what an option is by definition, but am way too out of my league in understanding what it is in actuality / how it actually works.

its a derived product.  youre not trading actual shares.  youre trading contracts that gives you the right to buy or sell shares.  except 1 contract represent 100 shares.  so basically the potential losses and gains from movement of the underlying stock (if you exercise the contracted option) is magnified bigly. 

 

and the prices of the actual contract change, so you could trade that in itself.  and each contract has an expiration date.  so if it expires and you havent exercised anythign then you lost that money too.

 

so thats just another layer of contrivance and i aint fuckin with that shit

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Parliament

Parliament 14262

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Posted

I exited my TSLA short, and made some money doing it.  Despite my best efforts to mess it all up.  I took that profit now to free up my self-imposed budget for:

Took that money and bought a $SPY put.  Feels good, man.  I'm using very little savings to do it, and make no mistake I'm way longer than I am short.  I'm using just mad money to do this.  It's a fun diversion from all the bad stuff happening.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5568

Posted
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24 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I exited my TSLA short, and made some money doing it.  Despite my best efforts to mess it all up.  I took that profit now to free up my self-imposed budget for:

Took that money and bought a $SPY put.  Feels good, man.  I'm using very little savings to do it, and make no mistake I'm way longer than I am short.  I'm using just mad money to do this.  It's a fun diversion from all the bad stuff happening.

yeah - that's how it all starts. make a small play on a short, roll it over into puts and the next thing you know you are a full on idiot.

wait was this post about you or me???

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54274

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

So IPOs and secondary offerings have nothing to do with the exchanges?  

No, they don't.  Those are primary market transactions.  NYSE, Nasdaq are secondary markets.  While you could rightfully argue that a bad secondary market discourages primary market transactions, that would be a strawman to the post I was responding to.  

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

yeah - that's how it all starts. make a small play on a short, roll it over into puts and the next thing you know you are a full on idiot.

wait was this post about you or me???

One nice thing about being totally out: I'm less tempted to try to figure out what "shorts" and "puts" are, and talk my amateur ass into trying to recoup my losses.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 12002

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I don't know what "up to a full Trump" means, but I kinda wanna it to mean that it rose to as tall as he is.

A Trump is a unit of measure that is = a 2,000 drop in the Dow.

So if it’s ‘up to a full Trump’, then the market is actually down 2000 pts.

Donald Trump is the only president to experience a Trump... and actually has 2 under his very large belt.... and possibly 3 if his end of market pep rally goes sideways.

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