Markets still falling like whoa

[Wally Fairway 5,550]

10 hours ago, Parliament said:

Maybe it's time to buy more puts.  Dunno.

Selling calls can be a bigger loss generator

So a friend tells me

[Incredulity 11,671]

16 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

I can finally start obsessively checking my 401k again!

[Storm the Field 5,294]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Storm the Field said:

Pictured: BofA, JPM, and Morgan Stanley CIO's out there every morning keeping up their imminent recession calls, trying to conjure up a market correction.

 

 

 

Lulz, 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

So basically their forecasting is:

 

[MrBig 5,398]

Does the market give a fuck that student loan payments are going to kick in soon? A lot of people are going to be in for a shock when their new payment amounts start at the new interest rates. 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

17 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Does the market give a fuck that student loan payments are going to kick in soon? A lot of people are going to be in for a shock when their new payment amounts start at the new interest rates. 

The market gives no fucks about anything.

[tbone_ 14,123]

It kinda gives a fuck if it thinks the fed is going to raise more. But that’s about it.

[gurt 748]

1 hour ago, MrBig said:

Does the market give a fuck that student loan payments are going to kick in soon? A lot of people are going to be in for a shock when their new payment amounts start at the new interest rates. 

aren't student interest loan rates fixed?  Why would they go up?

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

23 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

It kinda gives a fuck if it thinks the fed is going to raise more. But that’s about it.

Short sellers make money too. No fucks given.

[Blotto 23,511]

3 hours ago, gurt said:

aren't student interest loan rates fixed?  Why would they go up?

I think government loans are fixed rate, but private loans can be fixed or variable. I have no idea what percentage of private loans would be variable rates, but hopefully not too many taken out when rates were low. 

[Not a cat 5,657]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:53 PM, Firemans4Horn said:

best investment advice I ever give my client is not to look at their statements. 

This.

I tell my 18 year old son and his friends to put some summer job money in a roth in a low cost growth index fund and check it in 41 years. A couple of them listened.  Hopefully in 2064 they'll be pouring out a cold one in my honor on a yacht saying "that old bastard kind of knew what he was doing."

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

This.

I tell my 18 year old son and his friends to put some summer job money in a roth in a low cost growth index fund and check it in 41 years. A couple of them listened.  Hopefully in 2064 they'll be pouring out a cold one in my honor on a yacht saying "that old bastard kind of knew what he was doing."

I wish I would have done this. I've always loved stocks and the market, going back to high school. Always heard just buy and forget it, but of course I had to dabble, thought I knew better, could beat the market. Just a waste of time and money.

I didn't consistently just put money in an index fund and leave it until a few years ago. And even then, I was (and still am) pretty conservative about the amounts -- i.e. only putting 35-40% of worth into the market. 

If I had just poured everything into it and did that consistently, I'd be on a beach somewhere earning 20%. Even as I type this, however, I'm hesitant to dump more in at higher prices. So I just consistently buy here and there. If I had more invested, I think I'd have trouble sleeping at night in downturns.

[StassneyHorn 6,576]

Federal loans are fixed, and were put on hold.

Private student loans could be either, and were not delayed during COVID unless the company made that decision or offered some forebearance.

[jdhorn92 1,549]

Meme stock mania Monday is coming.  Look for AMC to go nuts , as shorts try to cover.  Going to be interesting.

[Trey3216 15,346]

On 7/22/2023 at 4:40 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

I wish I would have done this. I've always loved stocks and the market, going back to high school. Always heard just buy and forget it, but of course I had to dabble, thought I knew better, could beat the market. Just a waste of time and money.

I didn't consistently just put money in an index fund and leave it until a few years ago. And even then, I was (and still am) pretty conservative about the amounts -- i.e. only putting 35-40% of worth into the market. 

If I had just poured everything into it and did that consistently, I'd be on a beach somewhere earning 20%. Even as I type this, however, I'm hesitant to dump more in at higher prices. So I just consistently buy here and there. If I had more invested, I think I'd have trouble sleeping at night in downturns.

So plow some money into other things that produce a more predictable rate of return with less market risk.  That way you have more piles of money and don't have to pull from the market-based piles during a downturn in retirement.  Stay fully invested in the market then, and have you non-market reserves to pull from.  

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Having a spending plan is just as important as having a savings plan if you want to maximize returns.

[Trey3216 15,346]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Having a spending plan is just as important as having a savings plan if you want to maximize returns.

Yep.  Maximizing income via multiple piles of $$ (some market, some non market) is much more important than building the biggest pile you can…especially when that biggest pile is in an acct controlled by governmental rules and market whims.   

[52-80 19,158]

49 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Yep.  Maximizing income via multiple piles of $$ (some market, some non market) is much more important than building the biggest pile you can…especially when that biggest pile is in an acct controlled by governmental rules and market whims.   

Yes. Diversification is key. Thats why some of my NFTs are of cartoon monkeys, some of basketball players, some of tweet screenshots, etc

[Captainant 27,669]

17 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Yes. Diversification is key. Thats why some of my NFTs are of cartoon monkeys, some of basketball players, some of tweet screenshots, etc

Bro you don't have any classic internet .gifs?? You gotta diversify your shit!

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

21 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Having a spending plan is just as important as having a savings plan if you want to maximize returns.

well i'm halfway there then!

[CooterBrown 18,012]

6 hours ago, Captainant said:

Bro you don't have any classic internet .gifs?? You gotta diversify your shit!

my retirement plan:

[B00M 6,416]

Seems relevant, especially if you want to feel good about yourself

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by B00M
TLDW most American’s retirement plans might as well be the dancing baby gif

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

Seems relevant, especially if you want to feel good about yourself

 

I quit watching after it started off with two people in their EARLY THIRTIES talking about how fucked they are.  If you’re younger than 35, you will be fine to retire in your 60s if you immediately start consistently saving 10% of your income and keep working steadily.

Even people into their early 40s should have plenty of time to save enough to retire by 70 with even a modicum of discipline.  But yes, there’s a shitload of people who are over 50 and have diddly and don’t know how in trouble they are.  Luckily it is extremely likely that there will be jobs available, that even olds can do, that will help those people stay out of poverty.  Not ideal but imho the retirement “crisis” pales in comparison to the education crisis and the healthcare crisis and probably also the climate crisis

Edited July 26, 2023 by Snake Diggity

[Captainant 27,669]

3 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Not ideal but imho the retirement “crisis” pales in comparison to the education crisis and the healthcare crisis and probably also the climate crisis

But hey at least there's all time high profits and shareholder value amirite

[WBT 20,572]

5 hours ago, B00M said:

Seems relevant, especially if you want to feel good about yourself

 

2013?  I'm sure Americans have become much more responsible and disciplined since then.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

But hey at least there's all time high profits and shareholder value amirite

Well, it’s what is driving the ones that actually have retirement savings. 

[52-80 19,158]

10 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Well, it’s what is driving the ones that actually have retirement savings. 

[Captainant 27,669]

10 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Well, it’s what is driving the ones that actually have retirement savings. 

And fewer than half of working Americans have retirement savings - largely due to the historically stagnant wages. 

But don't let me get in the way of your "fuck everyone else, I got mine"

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

I'd say it's more due to financial illiteracy. The vast majority of companies have 401K w/match so saving saving $20 bucks per week (40 with company match) is over a quarter million dollars in 35 years. With Social Security, that's a decent start for anyone.

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

3 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I'd say it's more due to financial illiteracy. The vast majority of companies have 401K w/match so saving saving $20 bucks per week (40 with company match) is over a quarter million dollars in 35 years. With Social Security, that's a decent start for anyone.

For middle/upper-middle class workers, it’s financial literacy.  For lower/lower-middle class workers, it’s stagnant wages.  It’s virtually impossible to save anything if you’re making $16/hr flipping burgers living on your own in Austin.  And it’s impossible to save anything making $40/hr as an electrician in south Texas if you don’t know how to save or that you should be saving at all.

[52-80 19,158]

>if you don’t know how to save or that you should be saving at all.…

This counters cheese’s point about illiteracy how?  And whose responsibility it is if you dont know how to save…on a 80k gross salary (2000*40)?

Then, why are we pretending that burger flipping is meant to be a lifelong career sustaining a person through retirement. How does a burger flipper in Germany or Sweden or Japan retire?

[Captainant 27,669]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

How does a burger flipper in Germany or Sweden or Japan retire?

[tbone_ 14,123]

Do they eat burgers in Germany Sweden or Japan?

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

24 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

>if you don’t know how to save or that you should be saving at all.…

This counters cheese’s point about illiteracy how?  And whose responsibility it is if you dont know how to save…on a 80k gross salary (2000*40)?

Then, why are we pretending that burger flipping is meant to be a lifelong career sustaining a person through retirement. How does a burger flipper in Germany or Sweden or Japan retire?

I wasn’t countering his point you dipshit.  I was saying it was partially valid.  
 

Your attitude about restaurant workers is an indictment of your character and is an example of why we are losing the dignity of work in this country.

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

7 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I was saying it was partially valid.

Sir. You have dishonored me. I challenge you to a dual. 

[52-80 19,158]

23 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Your attitude about restaurant workers is an indictment of your character and is an example of why we are losing the dignity of work in this country.

I worked fast food the age I was legally able (15). My sister waited tables in college. My father did a stint delivering food in adulthood which I remember, because I was already born, and for him doing that im *extremely* grateful. 

Restaurant workers have a place in society. The *reality* is that that place is not for maintaining a comfortable long term living no matter what illogical delusions you harbor or fantasies you want to *project* about my attitude. 

[52-80 19,158]

42 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Do they eat burgers in Germany Sweden or Japan?

The culture of Japan is such that no matter where something originated or is popularized, some guy in an alleyway in Osaka is doing it better.  

So the best burger in the world is probably served out of a shack by a 70 year old dude named Kawasaki. 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

Just now, 52-80 said:

So the best burger in the world is probably served out of a shack by a 70 year old dude named Kawasaki. 

[Captainant 27,669]

37 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The *reality* is that that place is not for maintaining a comfortable long term living no matter what illogical delusions you harbor or fantasies you want to *project* about my attitude. 

So because they're working in food service, they don't deserve dignity? Do I have that right?

Man, I bet waiters LOVE you

[Sam Lin 3,559]

Wtf, now we're tipping because of <dignity>??

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I worked fast food the age I was legally able (15). My sister waited tables in college. My father did a stint delivering food in adulthood which I remember, because I was already born, and for him doing that im *extremely* grateful. 

Restaurant workers have a place in society. The *reality* is that that place is not for maintaining a comfortable long term living no matter what illogical delusions you harbor or fantasies you want to *project* about my attitude. 

I think it’s pretty fucked up that you think restaurant workers don’t deserve to be able to make a wage high enough to be able to save enough to avoid poverty in old age, and your opinion shows a disgusting lack of respect for workers in general.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Snake Diggity

[Sam Lin 3,559]

Is that a joke? Are we really saying every job should pay enough to save for retirement?

[Okie State 3,821]

Restaurants are already becoming unaffordable and that's running on razor thin margins.

[Incredulity 11,671]

34 minutes ago, Sam Lin said:

Is that a joke? Are we really saying every job should pay enough to save for retirement?

Yes, they are.

[Incredulity 11,671]

6 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Do they eat burgers in Germany Sweden or Japan?

[Incredulity 11,671]

7 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

And it’s impossible to save anything making $40/hr as an electrician in south Texas if you don’t know how to save or that you should be saving at all.

Or if you donkey it all away on lifted F350, other toys, vacations and booger sugar.  The last one, which really fucks up your promising career and any chance of not pulling wire every day in your fifties.

 

 Tale as old as time.

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

2 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

Is that a joke? Are we really saying every job should pay enough to save for retirement?

Put another way, yes, people who work full time for their entire able-bodied adult lives shouldn’t be automatically condemned to spending their old age in poverty no matter what job they do.  It’s basic dignity and should be part of the definition of a living wage.

[Captainant 27,669]

4 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

Is that a joke? Are we really saying every job should pay enough to save for retirement?

Yeah, I'm talking about a living wage - you know, the idea of working 40 hours a week in an honest job being enough to put a roof over your head and food on your table?

 

Last time we had historically high wealth concentration, it's what it took to work the country out of the great depression. Turns out, you need lots of people with money to spend for capitalism to actually work out for more than the top earners.

[52-80 19,158]

8 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

I think it’s pretty fucked up that you think restaurant workers don’t deserve to be able to make a wage high enough to be able to save enough to avoid poverty in old age, and your opinion shows a disgusting lack of respect for workers in general.

I think you harbor the naivete of an 8 year old to believe that "deserve" has anything to do with it.

Entry-level restaurant work (what YOU called "burger flipping") does not make a robust career.  It is unskilled labor, and thus paid on the bottom of the wage scale. That's determined by the amount of people who are able to do it, and choose to do it, against them choosing to do something else. That's not determined by what *I* think of it. 

Instead of acknowledging that simple fact of life, you choose to aim your little squirt gun at me - as if im the wage setter or my opinion has anything to do with it - shows you're more into your ideological la la land than in reality.

[LTtxfan 49,187]

15 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Sir. You have dishonored me. I challenge you to a dual.