Markets still falling like whoa

[LTtxfan 50005]

15 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I worked fast food at age 15. My sister waited tables in college. My father did a stint delivering food...   Restaurant workers have a place in society. The *reality* is that that place is not for maintaining a comfortable long term living no matter what illogical delusions you harbor or fantasies you want to *project* about my attitude. 

 

[Snake Diggity 4714]

9 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I think you harbor the naivete of an 8 year old to believe that "deserve" has anything to do with it.

Entry-level restaurant work (what YOU called "burger flipping") does not make a robust career.  It is unskilled labor, and thus paid on the bottom of the wage scale. That's determined by the amount of people who are able to do it, and choose to do it, against them choosing to do something else. That's not determined by what *I* think of it. 

Instead of acknowledging that simple fact of life, you choose to aim your little squirt gun at me - as if im the wage setter or my opinion has anything to do with it - shows you're more into your ideological la la land than in reality.

I assume you are an adult who is eligible to vote.  So yes, you have an actual role in setting the minimum wage.  It’s people who hold your opinion who have put politicians in place who have kept the minimum wage below the threshold that would allow those workers the dignity of making enough to save enough to avoid poverty once they are too old to work.  
 

You call it “unskilled labor”.  I would argue that any job that hasn’t been replaced by a machine requires skills.  Of course some skills are in higher demand than others and not all jobs should pay equally, but no worker should be denied a living wage.

[B00M 6734]

[squib 1131]

23 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Do they eat burgers in Germany Sweden or Japan?

Do you even Burgermeister, bro?

 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

45 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I assume you are an adult who is eligible to vote.  So yes, you have an actual role in setting the minimum wage.  It’s people who hold your opinion who have put politicians in place who have kept the minimum wage below the threshold that would allow those workers the dignity of making enough to save enough to avoid poverty once they are too old to work.  

Or perhaps people will be motivated to say "I can't make it on this wage, I should try to better myself". 

[pearlandhorn 3343]

14 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Or perhaps people will be motivated to say "I can't make it on this wage, I should try to better myself". 

But that requires actual work.  Can't have any of that going on.

[fattyflattie 4640]

1 hour ago, pearlandhorn said:

But that requires actual work.  Can't have any of that going on.

Close. It’s the system, bro. The fucking system that keeps them down. In case y’all are wondering, I’m paying union flaggers over $25/hr right now.  Literally sitting on a fucking stool under an umbrella, not directing shit, for 12/hr day, OT after 8, double on Sundays.  Fuck outta here with can’t sock away $20/week on that.   

[pearlandhorn 3343]

9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Close. It’s the system, bro. The fucking system that keeps them down. In case y’all are wondering, I’m paying union flaggers over $25/hr right now.  Literally sitting on a fucking stool under an umbrella, not directing shit, for 12/hr day, OT after 8, double on Sundays.  Fuck outta here with can’t sock away $20/week on that.   

Ahh unions.  The heartbeat of America.

[Foosters 18280]

 

 

2 hours ago, pearlandhorn said:

But that requires actual work.  Can't have any of that going on.

Yes. Minimum wage jobs typically require no work and allow one to sit around posting on a message board all day.

[fattyflattie 4640]

42 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Ahh unions.  The heartbeat of America.

Yeah they are wonderful. Recently had to pay a bunch of teamsters we had already laid off a week ago, because a rental co sent a non-union driver to pick up some equipment.  5 fucking hours each for every teamster that had worked on the project at some point.  Bunch of fucking crooks.  

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

But what about their dignity?

[Incredulity 11876]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

But what about their dignity?

And not endure poverty during retirement with a defined benefit pension.

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah they are wonderful. Recently had to pay a bunch of teamsters we had already laid off a week ago, because a rental co sent a non-union driver to pick up some equipment.  5 fucking hours each for every teamster that had worked on the project at some point.  Bunch of fucking crooks.  

Show me a bad union and I'll show you bad management. In all cases, across all time. Negotiate better next time. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

On 7/27/2023 at 1:51 PM, 52-80 said:

I worked fast food the age I was legally able (15). My sister waited tables in college. My father did a stint delivering food in adulthood which I remember, because I was already born, and for him doing that im *extremely* grateful. 

Restaurant workers have a place in society. The *reality* is that that place is not for maintaining a comfortable long term living no matter what illogical delusions you harbor or fantasies you want to *project* about my attitude. 

 

23 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

Is that a joke? Are we really saying every job should pay enough to save for retirement?

 

22 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Yes, they are.

 

15 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I think you harbor the naivete of an 8 year old to believe that "deserve" has anything to do with it.

Entry-level restaurant work (what YOU called "burger flipping") does not make a robust career.  It is unskilled labor, and thus paid on the bottom of the wage scale. That's determined by the amount of people who are able to do it, and choose to do it, against them choosing to do something else. That's not determined by what *I* think of it. 

Instead of acknowledging that simple fact of life, you choose to aim your little squirt gun at me - as if im the wage setter or my opinion has anything to do with it - shows you're more into your ideological la la land than in reality.

You people are incredibly naive if you think restaurant work in general is an entry level, unskilled, or minimum wage job.  It's a career. Entry level pay at In-and-out is like $17/hr. Bill Miller's also.  Managers routinely make $100k+. 
Good grief you people. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

15 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Show me a bad union and I'll show you bad management. In all cases, across all time. Negotiate better next time. 

You know as well as I do there are some areas you can’t negotiate with.   I do my part by holding them to the absolute letter to their agreement.  Show up pay says 4 hours, bitch, catch a seat and watch the rain for the next 240 minutes.  

[fattyflattie 4640]

29 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

And not endure poverty during retirement with a defined benefit pension.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, gives me a feeling like when I read a local pension ran dry.  Call Intl, see if they give a single fuck.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

16 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You know as well as I do there are some areas you can’t negotiate with.   I do my part by holding them to the absolute letter to their agreement.  Show up pay says 4 hours, bitch, catch a seat and watch the rain for the next 240 minutes.  

LOL, I rest my case. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

LOL, I rest my case. 

Live by the agreement, die by the agreement imo.   Fuck out of here with one operator to turn on the hydrant, and another to turn it off bullshit.  Layoff day for the locals almost makes it worth the hassle. Back to the hall boys. Don’t worry, I’m sure another big pipeline will come thru muledick Illinois again soon. 

[Hmbre97 6337]

4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

 

 

You people are incredibly naive if you think restaurant work in general is an entry level, unskilled, or minimum wage job.  It's a career. Entry level pay at In-and-out is like $17/hr. Bill Miller's also.  Managers routinely make $100k+. 
Good grief you people. 

Nah bro, restaurant work is for teenagers. That's why fast food joints shut down during the day while they're in school. Oh wait, they don't? They have to find other people to fill those jobs? Fuck them poors. And fuck the people with learning or mental/physical disabilities that are only capable of working low skill jobs. They don't deserve a living wage. They should try to just...ya know, stop having disabilities. Or the numerous other people who have had trauma in their lives/upbringing that prevent them from going to college because they have no financial support and have to work multiple jobs to support themselves. The answer to their problems is to just say

9 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

 "I can't make it on this wage, I should try to better myself". 

They have no excuses. It's not like college is expensive or that they can't lean on the vast social safety nets we provide for people in these situations to help lift them out of poverty. Oh wait, the same people bitching about people "being entitled" for wanting to make a living wage also try their hardest to cut or cancel funding for social programs that would assist people in breaking these cycles?

Conservatives give zero fucks about an issue unless it personally affects them. It's the "Fuck you, got mine" mentality, just like Jesus taught us.

[Captainant 28539]

8 hours ago, Hmbre97 said:

Conservatives give zero fucks about an issue unless it personally affects them. It's the "Fuck you, got mine" mentality, just like Jesus taught us.

Blessed are the poor, for theirs are the booststraps of heaven

[Parliament 14598]

This thread has become a list of posters I ignore.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

29 minutes ago, Parliament said:

This thread has become a list of posters I ignore.  

Perhaps you'd be more comfortable here

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[Snake Diggity 4714]

My posts about restaurant workers being skilled and deserving a living wage got negged consecutively by @PilotsError.  I go looking at his recent posting history, and one of his most recent posts is him whining and posting pics about what a shitty job someone did putting together his Whataburger and taquito that he was about to use his chubby fucking fingers to stuff into his fat fucking face.  Something about that made me lmfao.  Maybe if those jobs paid better he might get a decent hamburger.  Or maybe those skilled workers have a radar and know when to fuck up some piece of shits order.  I shudder to think about how much spit some of you guys have eaten with the way you view/treat restaurant workers.

 

[52-80 19377]

16 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You people are incredibly naive if you think restaurant work in general is an entry level, unskilled, or minimum wage job.  It's a career. Entry level pay at In-and-out is like $17/hr. Bill Miller's also.  Managers routinely make $100k+. 
Good grief you people. 

Except we're not talking about restaurant managers, or sous chef, or maitre d.  We're talking about -- using Snake's exact pejorative: "burger flippers".  Denoting the bottom-rung associate at your local McWhataburgers.

On 7/27/2023 at 7:38 PM, Snake Diggity said:

  It’s virtually impossible to save anything if you’re making $16/hr flipping burgers living on your own in Austin. 

It's not "undignified".  It's simply an unskilled position, meant as a ladder into something higher, or a stop-gap in employment.  It is never meant for a 40 year tenure with a nest egg at the end anymore than delivering the newspaper is.  That's just the reality that all of us implicitly accept, but dude wants to get mad at me because he's coming from a position of emotion than logic.

The other slightly funny thing is his example of a pitiable subject being a hypothetical Texas electrician making $40/hr...that's higher than the median wages of an architect, biologist, physical scientist, and civil engineer.  (Bureau of Labor Statitistics, May 2022, Texas wage data)

[Snake Diggity 4714]

17 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Except we're not talking about restaurant managers, or sous chef, or maitre d.  We're talking about -- using Snake's exact pejorative: "burger flippers".  Denoting the bottom-rung associate at your local McWhataburgers.

It's not "undignified".  It's simply an unskilled position, meant as a ladder into something higher, or a stop-gap in employment.  It is never meant for a 40 year tenure with a nest egg at the end anymore than delivering the newspaper is.  That's just the reality that all of us implicitly accept, but dude wants to get mad at me because he's coming from a position of emotion than logic.

The other slightly funny thing is his example of a pitiable subject being a hypothetical Texas electrician making $40/hr...that's higher than the median wages of an architect, biologist, physical scientist, and civil engineer.  (Bureau of Labor Statitistics, May 2022, Texas wage data)

I didn’t use a pejorative, fuck stick.  I described one of their primary tasks.  The fact that you turned it into a pejorative is on you.  I fully understand the reality that line-level fast food workers are not currently paid enough for that job to be sufficient for anything other than “a ladder into something higher” or a “stop-gap”.  My contention is that reality is not right nor sustainable.  It’s really sad this is so contentious; basically all I’m saying is that if we aren’t going to actually guarantee a true living wage that social security should be funded well enough such that lifetime minimum wage (or near-minimum wage) workers don’t retire into poverty.  Jesus.

You also took my $40/hr electrician anecdote out of context.  My point in that was just illustrating that there are 2 types of people who lack retirement savings: those that make enough money, but aren’t financial literate enough to save, and those that simply don’t make enough.  Fwiw, the only electrician I have ever spoken salary with makes $40/hr working in a small town (he’s in his mid 30s).

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

40 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Except we're not talking about restaurant managers, or sous chef, or maitre d.  We're talking about -- using Snake's exact pejorative: "burger flippers".  Denoting the bottom-rung associate at your local McWhataburgers.

Interesting- so while it’s a living wage or close job at some places (InO, P Terrys etc), it’s not at McDonalds etc, despite the same or similar skill set and price points involved. 
 

so here the question for you- which companies entry level employees need and receive more support from society and why do you want to subsidize that company’s COGS?

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[52-80 19377]

56 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Interesting- so while it’s a living wage or close job at some places (InO, P Terrys etc), it’s not at McDonalds etc, despite the same or similar skill set and price points involved. 
 

so here the question for you- which companies entry level employees need and receive more support from society and why do you want to subsidize that company’s COGS?

Right. Why would a person bother flipping burgers at McD if InO are available? If InO dont have positions available, why would they bother paying a premium over McD?

Whatever differences in requirements and incentives private businesses have to pay at the bottom (and the top!) level is not our job to police.

So i dont actually support picking and choosing “which companies” to subsidize; thats not the appropriate level of intervention. Govts job is to support individuals at the floor level through programs like food stamps, which can be subsidized through taxation from the ceiling. (Guess where i stand on those 2 issues) 

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

21 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Right. Why would a person bother flipping burgers at McD if InO are available?* If InO dont have positions available, why would they bother paying a premium over McD?**

Whatever differences in requirements and incentives private businesses have to pay at the bottom (and the top!) level is not our job to police.***

So i dont actually support picking and choosing “which companies” to subsidize; thats not the appropriate level of intervention. ****

Govts job is to support individuals at the floor level through programs like food stamps, which can be subsidized through taxation from the ceiling. (Guess where i stand on those 2 issues) *****

During the greatest and most sustained epochs of American capitalism we didn't think like this and it was the creeping myopia of this kind of nonsense that broke our labor market in the 80s and has been destroying the middle class ever since. 

*Are you asking why a person would accept a lower paying job than a high paying equivalent position elsewhere? Usually because of information disparity. Once they are faced with open competition, lower paying businesses typically react by raising wages because they are forced to. Companies are only able to pay below market so long as people don't know they can do better elsewhere. Once they find out, they split.  

**Many fast food outfits and retailers pay a living wage to reduce turnover, maintain quality standards, and deliver long term value of the owners of the business through both superior returns and the good will that accrues through good citizenship. You seem to be operating under the assumption that it's a better cost model to pay as little as possible. That's usually not true outside of a deep recession and high unemployment. 

*** Whatever the difference is between what a person at the bottom makes and the unpaid cost to support them at a basic level, we the taxpayers pay that. So, it is absolutely in our interest to police it unless we want to write bottom feeders a blank check. 

**** But in fact you do. See below.

***** See what I mean? If the whataburger raises wages to keep up with Bill Miller, your support for foodstamps etc. declines by that much. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[52-80 19377]

56 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

*Are you asking why a person would accept a lower paying job than a high paying equivalent position elsewhere? Usually because of information disparity. Once they are faced with open competition, lower paying businesses typically react by raising wages because they are forced to. Companies are only able to pay below market so long as people don't know they can do better elsewhere. Once they find out, they split.  

**Many fast food outfits and retailers pay a living wage to reduce turnover, maintain quality standards, and deliver long term value of the owners of the business through both superior returns and the good will that accrues through good citizenship. You seem to be operating under the assumption that it's a better cost model to pay as little as possible.

*** Whatever the difference is between what a person at the bottom makes and the unpaid cost to support them at a basic level, we the taxpayers pay that. So, it is absolutely in our interest to police it unless we want to write bottom feeders a blank check. 

**** But in fact you do. See below.

***** See what I mean? If the whataburger raises wages to keep up with Bill Miller, your support for foodstamps etc. declines by that much. 

So the reason McD is able to maintain a lower wage than PTerrys is because…information opacity of wages — numbers that somehow even you, who i assume do not work in hospitality, seem to know…despite its secrecy? Dont be fatuous, Jeffrey. 

I dont assume its better to pay the least for anything. Or the most for anything. As a producer or as a consumer.  I believe each party should have the determination to bid/ask what it wants for the return it seeks. That means McD selling a burger for $1, InO for $3, and some bougie restaurant for $50. And we the right to that selection, giving goodwill to whom we choose. 

I dont want at every step in the production chain some 3rd party to impose control only on the basis of arbitrary minimum pricing; their only role is to ensure the burger is not toxic. 

We can play the societal support shuffle. If Johnny Rockets has +20% added to his earnings, and he goes to the Whataburger where the cashier, flipper, fryer, janitor, also received +20% pay…is he able to buy 20% more burgers than before?

We differ where we believe external intervention is require — at the point of employment? Indoor football league players and lower tier cyclists and literally hundreds of other “pro” sports with pay annualizing to same or less than burger makers. Should fed impose minimum there too? Which profession do you pick and choose?  
 

Fun quiz: whats the mandated minimum wage for a restaurant worker in Norway

[Captainant 28539]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

I dont want at every step in the production chain some 3rd party to impose control only on the basis of arbitrary minimum pricing; their only role is to ensure the burger is not toxic. 

I mean this is effectively what already happens in sufficiently regulatory captured markets. Fuck, try getting healthcare without a 3rd party imposing arbitrary minimum pricing. 

 

5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Fun quiz: whats the mandated minimum wage for a restaurant worker in Norway

Not a great reference considering Norway has no minimum wage but does have a functional social safety net, but don't let me get in the way of your boardroom bluster about how workers are too entitled and greedy

[Schulz2.0 29280]

7 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

During the greatest and most sustained epochs of American capitalism we didn't think like this and it was the creeping myopia of this kind of nonsense that broke our labor market in the 80s and has been destroying the middle class ever since. 

*Are you asking why a person would accept a lower paying job than a high paying equivalent position elsewhere? Usually because of information disparity. Once they are faced with open competition, lower paying businesses typically react by raising wages because they are forced to. Companies are only able to pay below market so long as people don't know they can do better elsewhere. Once they find out, they split.  

**Many fast food outfits and retailers pay a living wage to reduce turnover, maintain quality standards, and deliver long term value of the owners of the business through both superior returns and the good will that accrues through good citizenship. You seem to be operating under the assumption that it's a better cost model to pay as little as possible. That's usually not true outside of a deep recession and high unemployment. 

*** Whatever the difference is between what a person at the bottom makes and the unpaid cost to support them at a basic level, we the taxpayers pay that. So, it is absolutely in our interest to police it unless we want to write bottom feeders a blank check. 

**** But in fact you do. See below.

***** See what I mean? If the whataburger raises wages to keep up with Bill Miller, your support for foodstamps etc. declines by that much. 

I worked at a semiconductor manufacturer in the northeast. Where the site was situated it wasn't great for skilled labor. They were having to pay new hires several bucks an hour more than some guys that had been there 2-3 years longer. Of course when those guys found out they were pissed and went to management wanting raises. Management has a meeting with our group and tells us it's against company policy for us to discuss our compensation with coworkers. That's against the law, but it didn't stop them from telling us we'd be fired if we got caught.

[Hmbre97 6337]

10 hours ago, 52-80 said:

It's not "undignified".  It's simply an unskilled position, meant as a ladder into something higher, or a stop-gap in employment.  It is never meant for a 40 year tenure with a nest egg at the end anymore than delivering the newspaper is.  That's just the reality that all of us implicitly accept, but dude wants to get mad at me because he's coming from a position of emotion than logic.

 

Bruh, why do you think we're discussing this? Not everyone 'implicitly accepts' this. It's only the norm because that's how the oligarchs who are the puppeteers of our politicians want it. They want those stagnant wages and brainwash everyone into "this is how it's supposed to be" while they continue to pilfer the middle and lower class of their assets. We have 40+ years of data showing trickle down economics is bullshit and has created an inequality issue that it probably too far gone as this point to solve with policy. 

It hasn't always been this way and doesn't need to be this way. We're the richest nation on earth and we let people suffer needlessly because most people in this country can't see the forest for the trees.  

[LTtxfan 50005]

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

There is merit to the idea that our society should have some jobs that don't pay a ton for high school kids that want some extra cash and such. Jobs that aren't meant to be a career. I mean, it sounds like a good idea, and if that was the way it worked it would maybe be a good idea. But the problem is that a significant portion of people are idiots. And those high school kids who want some extra cash are probably going to be more valuable workers than the idiots. So the bottom of the pay scale ends up being dominated by idiots instead of high school kids or transitory workers. And idiots need a place to live. And they can't be expected to live forever. We should probably come up with a way to allow them to retire at a reasonable age, even if it isn't very close to the age most skilled workers retire. 

[babysdaddy 2731]

Back on topic, pre election year and election years are always good for markets. And 100% of the time the market is up during first 6 months of year, rally continues for 2nd half.

On the other hand, rates/earnings/math. Wtf

[ChickenSandwich 9959]

Random YouTube anecdotal but interesting because I had no idea on pay. 
 

21 yr old working at Whataburger in San Marcos making $60k post tax. 
 

 

[PilotsError 2337]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:36 PM, Hmbre97 said:

Nah bro, restaurant work is for teenagers. That's why fast food joints shut down during the day while they're in school. Oh wait, they don't? They have to find other people to fill those jobs? Fuck them poors. And fuck the people with learning or mental/physical disabilities that are only capable of working low skill jobs. They don't deserve a living wage. They should try to just...ya know, stop having disabilities. Or the numerous other people who have had trauma in their lives/upbringing that prevent them from going to college because they have no financial support and have to work multiple jobs to support themselves. The answer to their problems is to just say

They have no excuses. It's not like college is expensive or that they can't lean on the vast social safety nets we provide for people in these situations to help lift them out of poverty. Oh wait, the same people bitching about people "being entitled" for wanting to make a living wage also try their hardest to cut or cancel funding for social programs that would assist people in breaking these cycles?

Conservatives give zero fucks about an issue unless it personally affects them. It's the "Fuck you, got mine" mentality, just like Jesus taught us.

nah, we just don’t have the same pathetic view of minorities that liberals have. 
 

 

 

[Newdoc 3511]

17 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

nah, we just don’t have the same pathetic view of minorities that liberals have. 

Hopefully, Erica Marsh as quoted above isn't as vapid as her tweet comes across. She maybe example one of our failing education system.

The systemic and largely socioeconomic barriers to advancement in this country will never be fixed on policies that matriculate and promote at the adult level (college and the workplace). Until we put our effort into creating equity from early childhood and equality from childhood into and throughout adulthood, then we will never fix the problem. The issue with creating a birth to adult fair educational and employment system is that it would take a couple of generations to see the outcome and elected government officials need votes in the next election cycle and corporations need profits next week. And it would require the general American populace to be less greedy and more communal. We are going the wrong way.

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

2 hours ago, PilotsError said:

nah, we just don’t have the same pathetic view of minorities that liberals have. 

You aren't a conservative as far as I can tell, but either way this thread is about the market and economic inputs, not kayfabe political grievance bullshit. 

[StassneyHorn 6774]

The most difficult work I've ever done was for 7.25/hr working at a car wash. Everything else has been methodical bullshit in the A/C that becomes muscle memory.  

If you work 40 hours you should be able to afford a liveable space in your community and have access to a 401k or pension. Some of you read that last sentence and see "own a nice house" and "have a better 401k than me."

[Hmbre97 6337]

nah, we just don’t have the same pathetic view of minorities that liberals have. 
 

 
 

I said nothing of race or minorities. Sounds like you do have the same views if that's your train of thought.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

16 hours ago, Newdoc said:

She maybe example one of our failing education system.

Lulz.

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

13 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

The most difficult work I've ever done was for 7.25/hr working at a car wash.

You might not ever get rich, but let me tell you it's better than digging a ditch

[52-80 19377]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:51 AM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There is merit to the idea that our society should have some jobs that don't pay a ton for high school kids that want some extra cash and such. Jobs that aren't meant to be a career. I mean, it sounds like a good idea, and if that was the way it worked it would maybe be a good idea. But the problem is that a significant portion of people are idiots. And those high school kids who want some extra cash are probably going to be more valuable workers than the idiots. So the bottom of the pay scale ends up being dominated by idiots instead of high school kids or transitory workers. And idiots need a place to live. And they can't be expected to live forever. We should probably come up with a way to allow them to retire at a reasonable age, even if it isn't very close to the age most skilled workers retire. 

Correct.  Natural distribution says there will always be idiots - they even seem to be over-represented here! - who will always need help.

The only question how and where society distributes that help.  For full-time workers and retirees the govt could supplement them enough to provide basic housing and food through means-testing (btw this exist today).  Or govt could impose a blanket wage raise so even a middle-class college kid holding a sign outside of Texadelphia for a summer job gets $15/hr.... even though it does absolutely nothing in terms of ensuring a retirement. 

If it's "impossible" for Snake's $40 electrician to have savings, what help will the minimum wage do?

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You might not ever get rich, but let me tell you it's better than digging a ditch

And there's no telling you you might meet. A movie star, or maybe even an Indian Chief!

[Guest]

23 hours ago, PilotsError said:

nah, we just don’t have the same pathetic view of minorities that liberals have. 
 

 

 

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/viral-us-left-wing-twitter-account-erica-marsh-suspended-was-allegedly-fake-12836052.html

Twitter has suspended a popular left-wing account following concerns about its authenticity, according to a report by The Washington Post. The account in question belongs to Erica Marsh, who identifies as a “Proud Democrat,” claims to have worked as a field organizer for President Biden, and volunteered for the Obama Foundation

Over the span of eight months, Erica Marsh had garnered a significant following on Twitter, with over 130,000 followers. She gained popularity by sharing hyper-liberal and often exaggerated opinions on major topics in American news.

Despite presenting herself as a proud Democrat, Erica Marsh’s identity could not be verified through local phone or voting records. Furthermore, there is no record of her involvement with the Biden presidential campaign or the Obama Foundation, where she claimed to have worked and volunteered, respectively.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

Wait. You are telling me that social media is fake? 

[Sam Lin 3598]

22 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

If you work 40 hours you should be able to afford a liveable space in your community and have access to a 401k or pension. Some of you read that last sentence and see "own a nice house" and "have a better 401k than me."

You have not misread my response, I simply disagree that every 40hr job should pay enough for livable space and some sort of retirement. A bare-bones job should pay enough to feed you and keep a roof over your head that same day. That's all.

[Hornius Emeritus 12804]

3 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Wait. You are telling me that social media is fake? 

Some is. Traces of Texas is not.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11860]

On 7/31/2023 at 4:43 PM, Sam Lin said:

I simply disagree that every 40hr job should pay enough for livable space and some sort of retirement. A bare-bones job should pay enough to feed you and keep a roof over your head that same day.

I simply disagree with this mindset.  Working for shelter and sustenance is slavery, basically.