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HOF Class of 2021 Semifinalists

naija

By naija
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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4852

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

Calvin Johnson was a bit like Sandy Koufax IMO, as much as you can draw parallels between the 2 sports.  Relatively short careers, but total domination when they played.  Calvin Johnson should be in.

I get what you're saying, and agree he might've been "better" at his peak than Wayne, Holt and Ward, but he's behind all of them in most of them in the major career statistics and rings.  

Like you said, tough to compare the sports, but he wasn't on the level of Koufax.  3 x Cy Young at a time when there was one for AL/NL combined, NL MVP, 4 time World Champ.

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4852

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

If Calvin Johnson shouldn’t be in then neither should Terrell Davis. I could see arguments either way, but they should be in the same boat....

No one ITT has argued Calvin Johnson shouldn't be in the HOF.  TD got in on his eleventh year on the ballot.  Johnson will get in much sooner than that.

Edited by Don Johnson
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AUinHsv

AUinHsv 584

Posted
Posted (edited)

Going with Manning as a lock a Woodson as close. DB's have a bad track record of having to wait. Usually there is at least one lineman and one WR so Faneca and either Holt or Wayne. Either is worthy but they usually don't take two from the same team (Wayne) or two of the same position in back to back years (Holt). I could see them fixing this issue by taking both. My others would be Willis and Bocelli and then maybe Mathews..  He deserves it - anyone on an all decade team should be in

Edited by AUinHsv
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ztejas

ztejas 44286

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Posted
1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

IMO, Wayne, Holt, and Ward need to be in before Calvin Johnson.

Agree on the first two. Definitely disagree on putting in Ward over Calvin. The gulf in ability is too steep and Ward barely even edges him in career yards. Unless you want to hold not getting drafted to the right team over CJ's head.

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4852

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Agree on the first two. Definitely disagree on putting in Ward over Calvin. The gulf in ability is too steep and Ward barely even edges him in career yards. Unless you want to hold not getting drafted to the right team over CJ's head.

Playing for the right team certainly plays into it, whether we like it or not.  Ward's two Super Bowl rings (MVP of one) are part of his resume.

I'm not going to make the argument, because I'm not qualified to, but many claim Ward to be the best blocking WR of all time.

Edited by Don Johnson
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ztejas

ztejas 44286

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hookem48 said:

Calvin Johnson not making it first year. How many receivers have ever made it first year?

Raymond Berry - 1973

Paul Warfield - 1983

Steve Largent - 1995

Jerry Rice - 2010 (duh)

Randy Moss - 2018 (double duh)

 

Just 5. TO probably should have been, but, you know...

Calvin is not on any of those 3's level.

 

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ztejas

ztejas 44286

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

many claim Ward to be the best blocking WR of all time.

It's a short list if he isn't. I wonder how much that would play into it. 

Ironically, and off the top of my head, I beleive Calvin was a very good blocking receiver. 

I just think it's difficult to put a guy with slightly more career yards in over a guy that has 3 seasons better than his best and another just as good.  

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naija

naija 3065

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17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Raymond Berry - 1973

Paul Warfield - 1983

Steve Largent - 1995

Jerry Rice - 2010 (duh)

Randy Moss - 2018 (double duh)

 

Just 5. TO probably should have been, but, you know...

Calvin is not on any of those 3's level.

 

as a pure talent, he is. only Randy Moss would I say was the better talent, but can't vote based on talent alone.

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ztejas

ztejas 44286

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35 minutes ago, naija said:

as a pure talent, he is. only Randy Moss would I say was the better talent, but can't vote based on talent alone.

I never buy the "Moss was a better player, Rice had a better career" narrative but to each their own.

They are welcome to contend for 2nd 😉

Calvin still had a helllll of a career. 11600 yards, 83 TDs, 3x first team all pro. Also about as stand up of a guy as you will ever find in the NFL which may help him with the voters.

I still think he's more of a 4th or 5th ballot type of guy.

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El Diablo

El Diablo 4232

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Playing for the right team certainly plays into it, whether we like it or not.  Ward's two Super Bowl rings (MVP of one) are part of his resume.

I'm not going to make the argument, because I'm not qualified to, but many claim Ward to be the best blocking WR of all time.

Ward was just a filthy, nasty, brutish, dirty motherfucker. The kind you want playing on your team. 

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hookem48

hookem48 4857

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Raymond Berry - 1973

Paul Warfield - 1983

Steve Largent - 1995

Jerry Rice - 2010 (duh)

Randy Moss - 2018 (double duh)

 

Just 5. TO probably should have been, but, you know...

Calvin is not on any of those 3's level.

 

Steve Largent and Jerry Rice were the all time leading receivers when they retired, that was pretty much the requirement to go first year as a receiver but then Moss. I'm still surprised they voted Moss in his first year.

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Posted
Posted
On 11/24/2020 at 4:17 PM, Don Johnson said:

Playing for the right team certainly plays into it, whether we like it or not.  Ward's two Super Bowl rings (MVP of one) are part of his resume.

I'm not going to make the argument, because I'm not qualified to, but many claim Ward to be the best blocking WR of all time.

It was college, but I've never seen a gutsier performance than Ward's in the Peach Bowl for Georgia.  They were heavy underdogs, only 6-5, and the QBs were all injured.  So they had him play QB.  He was limping nearly every play the 2nd half and nearly lead them to the upset of Virginia.

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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 25778

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Darren Woodson has gotten screwed and looks like it will be up to the old timers group or whatever the hell they do there to amend that down the line.  I think Drew Pearson is finally in line for that this year (believe saw he is only Sr Finalist). An abortion that it took that long on Drew (a member of an All Decade Team)

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dcar00

dcar00 14997

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On 11/24/2020 at 3:10 PM, ztejas said:

Agree on the first two. Definitely disagree on putting in Ward over Calvin. The gulf in ability is too steep and Ward barely even edges him in career yards. Unless you want to hold not getting drafted to the right team over CJ's head.

the recency bias on receivers is crazy.  I know they aren't modern era but Cliff Harris and Mark Clayton should be in before Holt and Ward.

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dcar00

dcar00 14997

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Darren Woodson has gotten screwed and looks like it will be up to the old timers group or whatever the hell they do there to amend that down the line.  I think Drew Pearson is finally in line for that this year (believe saw he is only Sr Finalist). An abortion that it took that long on Drew (a member of an All Decade Team)

more cowboy BS.   5x pro bowl 4x all pro and 3x super bowl champion.

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