Dave Chappelle

[troph 24905]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

How exactly has a man that has leaned into criticism for his entire career....bathed in it constantly, now trying to control the reaction?  

He gets pissy about says he doesn’t understand why people say that he’s transphobic. Look you like the guy think he’s awesome, he’s not cool with the criticism if he was he wouldn’t have a $20M special dedicated to trans jokes. Stop being obtuse.

[BabaYaga 15305]

Just now, DonkeyCigars said:

I think this is the heart of it: “Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again.”

Because I think the core fear or what makes DC so funny and good is his ability to see ahead and be prescient, I think what he's seeing is that EVEN Trans white people are even going to leapfrog black people in American society sooner than later.

You already kinda see it happening with Caitlyn Jenner who is ridiculed and mocked until she starts politically aligning like a typical rich white person, and then doors of acceptance somewhat open.

100% this, and DC's entire point

[troph 24905]

Just now, DonkeyCigars said:

I think this is the heart of it: “Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again.”

Because I think the core fear or what makes DC so funny and good is his ability to see ahead and be prescient, I think what he's seeing is that EVEN Trans white people are even going to leapfrog black people in American society sooner than later.

You already kinda see it happening with Caitlyn Jenner who is ridiculed and mocked until she starts politically aligning like a typical rich white person, and then doors of acceptance somewhat open.

ONLY those that can be stealth. Trans women who are visibly trans don’t have the white privilege the way Dave thinks they do. White and male are the powers that control here. And if stealth you are only one fuck up from being outted. If you’re outted in the wrong situation as having unilaterally rejected maleness you can flat out have your life taken away from you. I walk though life with that underlying anxiety. 

[BabaYaga 15305]

1 minute ago, troph said:

He gets pissy about says he doesn’t understand why people say that he’s transphobic. Look you like the guy think he’s awesome, he’s not cool with the criticism if he was he wouldn’t have a $20M special dedicated to trans jokes. Stop being obtuse.

Ah, the "he gets pissy" defense.  You think you might be a little biased here....maybe just a little.  He gives zero fucks about criticism.  That's MY point.  Always been that way his entire career.  You're just glossing over this.  

You do know he walked away from a previous $50M contract because people tried to make him conform because he was always so edgy from the start, right?  Again, you seem new here.  He's been doing this his entire career.  Pryor did it.  Kinneson did it.  JFC, go look up some of the transcripts or watch he videos of Kinneson's early shows and his bits on necrophilia. 

[troph 24905]

He also fails to recognize that anti-trans laws on every topic important to trans people are being passed at dizzying rates right now and there is no blanket Supreme Court or constitutional  recognition of trans equality and there won’t be one in at least 20 years. So all the progress for trans people is tenuous at best.

[troph 24905]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Ah, the "he gets pissy" defense.  You think you might be a little biased here....maybe just a little.  He gives zero fucks about criticism.  That's MY point.  Always been that way his entire career.  You're just glossing over this.  

You do know he walked away from a previous $50M contract because people tried to make him conform because he was always so edgy from the start, right?  Again, you seem new here.  He's been doing this his entire career.  Pryor did it.  Kinneson did it.  JFC, go look up some of the transcripts or watch he videos of Kinneson's early shows and his bits on necrophilia. 

I’ve NEVER a said he can’t or shouldn’t do it. JFC yourself man. I have zero desire to censor him or have him change. His whole routine was directed at critics. Yeah he’s sensitive to the issue. 

[ChickenSandwich 9849]

9 minutes ago, troph said:

He also fails to recognize that anti-trans laws on every topic important to trans people are being passed at dizzying rates right now and there is no blanket Supreme Court or constitutional  recognition of trans equality and there won’t be one in at least 20 years. So all the progress for trans people is tenuous at best.

Could you please provide some examples of these “anti-trans” bills?  Genuinely curious. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

23 minutes ago, troph said:

ONLY those that can be stealth. Trans women who are visibly trans don’t have the white privilege the way Dave thinks they do. White and male are the powers that control here. And if stealth you are only one fuck up from being outted. If you’re outted in the wrong situation as having unilaterally rejected maleness you can flat out have your life taken away from you. I walk though life with that underlying anxiety. 

Yes, now. Just like there was a time being gay or flaming gay or whatever (is that okay to say? Mean to say the gays who don't pass as straight or are obvious and not stealth) was a death sentence, pre-societal acceptance and normalization.

Again, DC's fear it seems is that he foresees a time sooner than later that Trans women who are not stealth will leapfrog black folks by virtue of being white (and potentially rich), because at the end of the day, having black skin in America is the worst disability you can have. Being black and poor is the worst thing a person can be in America; that seems to be his fear from what I can tell, at least.

Edited October 21, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[futureman 22529]

13 minutes ago, troph said:

He also fails to recognize that anti-trans laws on every topic important to trans people are being passed at dizzying rates right now and there is no blanket Supreme Court or constitutional  recognition of trans equality and there won’t be one in at least 20 years. So all the progress for trans people is tenuous at best.

Wood ‘drastically underestimates the impact of social distinctions predicated upon wealth, especially inherited wealth.’  You got that from Vickers, ‘Work in Essex County,’ page 98, right?  Yeah I read that, too. 

[troph 24905]

9 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Yes, now. Just like there was a time being gay or flaming gay or whatever (is that okay to say? Mean to say the gays who don't pass as straight or are obvious and not stealth) was a death sentence, pre-societal acceptance and normalization.

Again, DC's fear it seems is that he foresees a time sooner than later that Trans women who are not stealth will leapfrog black folks by virtue of being white (and potentially rich), because at the end of the day, having black skin in America is the worst disability you can have. Being black and poor is the worst thing a person can be in America; that seems to be his fear from what I can tell, at least.

We are a LONG way from that based on the activity in state legislatures in fact not only are doors being closed now the future will require more than a passive acceptance but a legislative will to reverse actual laws.  I’m not sure y’all get how aggressive and comprehensive the conservative legislative agenda against trans people has been since the marriage equality decision. It actually puts the anti-abortion campaign to shame. I do not foresee that legislative will rising up in my lifetime in the red states.  
 

he also fails to realize that we white trans women have our own brand of walking in fear and because of that we are probably the most inclusive of all white people when it comes to equality, diversity and inclusion and race. Now that may not always be true but in my circles white trans women are almost exclusively concerned with the treatment of trans women of color, because we know if we make our sisters lives better ours will improve too. 
 

the irony of his trans jokes is that of all the white people who might be able to understand based on a similar but different experience it’s us that would. 

[mchookem 16367]

59 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Could you please provide some examples of these “anti-trans” bills?  Genuinely curious. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/politics/anti-transgender-legislation-2021/index.html

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/2021-officially-becomes-worst-year-in-recent-history-for-lgbtq-state-legislative-attacks-as-unprecedented-number-of-states-enact-record-shattering-number-of-anti-lgbtq-measures-into-law

Edited October 21, 2021 by mchookem

[Wally Pryor 5262]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Immune to criticism?  Are you just now learning about Chappelle?  Did you ever watch the Chappelle show back when it aired?  Clayton Bigsby?  He's taken shit his whole career....which is the point.  It's comedy.  There are no subjects that are "off limits"

Now you've struck a nerve.

One of the funniest pieces ever aired on television. Simply fantastic. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

A few days ago. Had no issue with it, other than not being particularly funny. That line fell flat as fuck.

It’s 100 floors of frights. They’re not all going to be winners. 

[BabaYaga 15305]

10 minutes ago, mchookem said:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/politics/anti-transgender-legislation-2021/index.html

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/2021-officially-becomes-worst-year-in-recent-history-for-lgbtq-state-legislative-attacks-as-unprecedented-number-of-states-enact-record-shattering-number-of-anti-lgbtq-measures-into-law

Most of those are sports related,  but your point is taken.  That virtually every bill addressing this community is immediately framed as "anti" is in itself, telling.  

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It’s 100 floors of frights. They’re not all going to be winners. 

So wait, one's gonna be David S. Pumpkins.  Why does he get to change his name to that?  Why, that's much harder than Caitlyn.  Wait...nevermind.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

14 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Most of those are sports related,  but your point is taken.  That virtually every bill addressing this community is immediately framed as "anti" is in itself, telling.  

Exactly. Not that anyone is interested in honest, complex conversations, but it starts with realizing there is a distinction between being "anti" a person group and being "anti" a particular special interest group's agenda. Just like making a joke about someone does not make a comedian "anti" any person or group.

Chapelle's humor is not for everyone. The fact that this is a "controversy" says  more about our culture than it does him. Personally, I want to live in a world where we have comedians speak truth to power and not face backlash if they do not adhere to a narrowly open Overton Window.

[BHMCruiser 1814]

The shrillness of the detractors is rooted firmly in their understanding that they cannot win this cultural battle with persuasive arguments, so they resort to emotional outbursts. 

If they want to win, they have to play the long game. That's just how it is. 

[Nivek 16979]

Same half that thinks I’m going into a woman’s bathroom to rape and pillage. 

[mchookem 16367]

2 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I’d be shocked if this occurs with my 13 yo daughter, 11 yo son or 9 yo daughter, or any of their friends. I have a lot of friends with older kids. Nobody has ever mentioned anything of that sort and that’s the kind of thing that would most certainly get out. 

I believe this is very unique to your corner of Austin. 

setting aside the fact that kids often (if not always) have an alternative life their parents are oblivious about lol... i was thinking about your last line and i think you have a point...

not necessarily "my corner' (bc the friends i'm thinking of are diverse/dispersed families with knowing me the only common element)...but moreso that most of my friends are open-minded, moderately-to-very progressive with pretty liberal views, and they've raised their children to be the same. so you're right, it's not surprising that their kids are more open to exploring and experimenting during their adolescent years... and now that i'm thinking about it, i can add a couple of boys that had crushes on trans girls at some point in high school.

but i really don't think it's that rare...after all we're in "The People's Republic of Austin" 😄

but to be clear, in none of these instances were any medical or permanent changes made, and most have already grown out of it. thus my original thought about how gender fluidity seems to have become kind of a 'cool' thing to try in some youth circles. 

[troph 24905]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Most of those are sports related,  but your point is taken.  That virtually every bill addressing this community is immediately framed as "anti" is in itself, telling.  

There are codified bathroom laws on the books, there are birth certificate laws on the books, there are hormone and therapy laws on the books, there are ID laws on the books, there are right to deny medical care laws on the books, the list goes on. And they show up every fucking year in state houses until they are passed. The onslaught against trans folk though state laws has been the premier issue with abortion for the conservative right. Equal rights laws and ordinances have been defeated in the past few years and it’s still legal to take all kinds of discriminatory action against trans people that’s been illegal for race for going on 80 years.  I was denied disability insurance and they blamed it “not only because you are transgendered  [sic] but because you have ADHD.” They couldn’t even write it correctly. Ain’t no one blacked or whited but I’m transgendered. I shit you not. I rose hell and won and have my coverage but still this white girl had to fight for a basic privilege of insuring my mind for my children’s financial well being. So pardon me but I think that’s a very disingenuous statement on your end. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by troph

[troph 24905]

56 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

The shrillness of the detractors is rooted firmly in their understanding that they cannot win this cultural battle with persuasive arguments, so they resort to emotional outbursts. 

If they want to win, they have to play the long game. That's just how it is. 

Oh we are playing the long game and it requires all of the above. Don’t kid yourself. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

11 minutes ago, troph said:

Oh we are playing the long game and it requires all of the above. Don’t kid yourself. 

I respect and appreciate your honesty, in all matters and at all times, it seems. I might not be an ally to your community on the macro level, but I am on a micro level a troph fan-- rock on out there in the free world.

[52-80 19226]

2 hours ago, troph said:

He also fails to recognize that anti-trans laws on every topic important to trans people are being passed at dizzying rates right now and there is no blanket Supreme Court or constitutional  recognition of trans equality and there won’t be one in at least 20 years. So all the progress for trans people is tenuous at best.

...

he also fails to realize that we white trans women have our own brand of walking in fear and because of that we are probably the most inclusive of all white people when it comes to equality, diversity and inclusion and race. Now that may not always be true but in my circles white trans women are almost exclusively concerned with the treatment of trans women of color, because we know if we make our sisters lives better ours will improve too. 

....So what?

Really.  What moral or ethical obligation has he to promote or suppress these points or elucidate on any other complexities of the LGBTQ+ dynamics in America?

He's not the POTUS.  He doesn't work for a think tank.  He's not a lobbyist.  He's hasn't authored an opinion column to forward a social agenda. 

As part of his entertainment act he wove a story together around a theme (not a one-liner comic like Hedberg).  Many found it funny.  Some found it flat.  Others found it bitter.  But what part of this act would anyone say is dangerous or inciteful or inflammatory or dog-whistling?  Actually how would a viewer have changed their personal opinion on LGBTQ+ as a consequence of watching this film?

What are we chewing all this cud for?

['stache 21838]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/politics/anti-transgender-legislation-2021/index.html

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/2021-officially-becomes-worst-year-in-recent-history-for-lgbtq-state-legislative-attacks-as-unprecedented-number-of-states-enact-record-shattering-number-of-anti-lgbtq-measures-into-law

Goddamnit, don't fall for his bait. You know goddamned well that any bill that is anti-trans they'll say "it's not anti, it's just science." Like the proven science that all trans women want to rape your kid in the bathroom. Hence, the need for a bathroom pecker checker.

[troph 24905]

11 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

....So what?

Really.  What moral or ethical obligation has he to promote or suppress these points or elucidate on any other complexities of the LGBTQ+ dynamics in America?

He's not the POTUS.  He doesn't work for a think tank.  He's not a lobbyist.  He's hasn't authored an opinion column to forward a social agenda. 

As part of his entertainment act he wove a story together around a theme (not a one-liner comic like Hedberg).  Many found it funny.  Some found it flat.  Others found it bitter.  But what part of this act would anyone say is dangerous or inciteful or inflammatory or dog-whistling?  Actually how would a viewer have changed their personal opinion on LGBTQ+ as a consequence of watching this film?

What are we chewing all this cud for?

So what is right. He tries to say he’s a good/not transphobic, he got paid 20m to do a trans joke special. He deserves some heat if he really wants to poke fun at us and do so completely divorced from reality while claiming he’s not transphobic.  The irony is so many white people say not racist doing the same bullshit he’s doing, he doesn’t even get the irony of his humor to us.  It’s not cud it’s high stakes shit for a lot of us. So fuck DC and excuse the vast majority of “us” if we don’t believe him after this special.  He gets his say, we get ours. Equal rights ya know.

Edited October 21, 2021 by troph

[BHMCruiser 1814]

19 minutes ago, troph said:

So what is right. He tries to say he’s a good/not transphobic, he got paid 20m to do a trans joke special. He deserves some heat if he really wants to poke fun at us and do so completely divorced from reality while claiming he’s not transphobic.  The irony is so many white people say not racist doing the same bullshit he’s doing, he doesn’t even get the irony of his humor to us.  It’s not cud it’s high stakes shit for a lot of us. So fuck DC and excuse the vast majority of “us” if we don’t believe him after this special.  He gets his say, we get ours. Equal rights ya know.

Understood, but this is also similar to Wifeversation's post that I should be listening to the transgender community and not Dave Chappelle. My response was "when does their special air?"

[BHMCruiser 1814]

I don't think any serious person would deny that you are a member of a minority that is being actively discriminated against in a myriad of ways, many of which are truly unjust (or even dangerous at the interpersonal level). That must be exhausting and I think you are remarkably even-keeled given that you are in a position of "taking all comers" (no pun intended) on every aspect of this issue. So, on a personal level, I respect that about you. 

I think it will be very hard, if not impossible, to bridge the gap between the people like you and your allies and the people who think you are suffering from a mental illness that has manifested itself in depraved and/or pitiful ways. That was probably the weakest part of Chappelle's special: his observation that the trans movement was so successful in such a short period of time. I don't think that's an accurate observation. 

[52-80 19226]

16 minutes ago, troph said:

So what is right. He tries to say he’s a good/not transphobic, he got paid 20m to do a trans joke special. He deserves some heat if he really wants to poke fun at us and do so completely divorced from reality while claiming he’s not transphobic.  The irony is so many white people say not racist doing the same bullshit he’s doing, he doesn’t even get the irony of his humor to us.  It’s not cud it’s high stakes shit for a lot of us. So fuck DC and excuse the vast majority of “us” if we don’t believe him after this special.  He gets his say, we get ours. Equal rights ya know.

I get that this is a high stakes subject for you/others, and appreciate that you are far more attuned to all of its nuances than the rest of us. 

And you are absolutely within your rights to express that the show sucked and harbor the opinion that he's IRL an asshole/bigot/insert-pejorative-here.  That's 100% fine.

 

But where is the connect between what DC said, and its consequence to the high stakes?  On what defensible grounds do some people have to, for example, literally cancel his show (=their demanding of its removal from Netflix)?  Because... "we don't like his opinions about this protected group of people"?

[troph 24905]

8 minutes ago, BHMCruiser said:

Understood, but this is also similar to Wifeversation's post that I should be listening to the transgender community and not Dave Chappelle. My response was "when does their special air?"

if it isn't funny on the merits to enough people it should never air.

[troph 24905]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I get that this is a high stakes subject for you/others, and appreciate that you are far more attuned to all of its nuances than the rest of us. 

And you are absolutely within your rights to express that the show sucked and harbor the opinion that he's IRL an asshole/bigot/insert-pejorative-here.  That's 100% fine.

 

But where is the connect between what DC said, and its consequence to the high stakes?  On what defensible grounds do some people have to, for example, literally cancel his show (=their demanding of its removal from Netflix)?  Because... "we don't like his opinions about this protected group of people"?

dunno, I've said probably 20 times that's not my position.  I'm not going to defend censorship of DC, never have, never will.  I am going to call him out as a snowflake though, because I truly think he is one.

Edited October 21, 2021 by troph

[BHMCruiser 1814]

Just now, troph said:

if it isn't funny on the merits to enough people it should never air.

I completely agree (even though Hannah Gadsby is on the air for some reason). My point is that you can't compare like to like because Dave has enormous cultural mass appeal and nobody can go toe to toe with that and win. It's a tough spot. 

[troph 24905]

btw, this round has been good, you guys aren't always assholes.  kudos to @DonkeyCigars @BHMCruiser and you too @52-80 for some props. There are others for sure.  In the end I only show up on these threads that have a focus about folks like me to provide one perspective that might not be shared if I don't show up.  that's really all.  you can do as you please, think as you please, I mean that.  In the end, if "we" are going to get what "we" really want it's going to be because good folks get together and don't piss on each other.

Quote

insert trans joke here

 

[BHMCruiser 1814]

I'm the best.

[52-80 19226]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

dunno, I've said probably 20 times that's not my position.  I'm not going to defend censorship of DC, never have, never will.  I am going to call him out as a snowflake though, because I truly think he is one.

cant argue with that. 

so not lobbing this one at you, but in general, goddamn it is repetitive that almost everyday theres another issue that is deemed petitionable or protestable.

[52-80 19226]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

 don't piss on each other.

well this weekend i pissed in a womens bathroom in brussels and while i feared some evil eyes walking out i guess there's privilege in not fearing violence either. 

whats with the gendered bathroom in public anyway when there isnt one in peoples houses.  toilets should be in full-height stalls and  everyone shares a common sink.  why the fuck not?

[troph 24905]

Just now, 52-80 said:

cant argue with that. 

so not lobbing this one at you, but in general, goddamn it is repetitive that almost everyday theres another issue that is deemed petitionable or protestable.

my personal success, however great or modest it may be, is not because I protest, but because I collaborate.  This is the most vocal place for me these days.  I did spend 5 years as a political advocate, that's true but I stayed in the political lane where it is appropriate and required to get shit done.  IRL, that shit don't work for me -- and that's probably my whiteness and my stealthness to be perfectly honest.  But I don't like cancel culture, I'd rather man up (see what I did there?) and take folk on with the merits.    I think in the end, the ethical, moral high ground will always win. So protesters gonna protest, I'm just going to be kind and have a good time, the rest truly is background noise.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

btw, this round has been good, you guys aren't always assholes.  kudos to @DonkeyCigars @BHMCruiser and you too @52-80 for some props. There are others for sure.  In the end I only show up on these threads that have a focus about folks like me to provide one perspective that might not be shared if I don't show up.  that's really all.  you can do as you please, think as you please, I mean that.  In the end, if "we" are going to get what "we" really want it's going to be because good folks get together and don't piss on each other.

I appreciate your perspective. I would love to have a deeper conversation about some of these issues, but we know how that will turn out. My lived experience is there is not always perfect aligning between individuals and an "agenda" for lack of a better word, and that people are not as monolithic as cable news would have us believe.

[troph 24905]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

well this weekend i pissed in a womens bathroom in brussels and while i feared some evil eyes walking out i guess there's privilege in not fearing violence either. 

whats with the gendered bathroom in public anyway when there isnt one in peoples houses.  toilets should be in full-height stalls and  everyone shares a common sink.  why the fuck not?

I hate the smell of other people's shit - in fact the best part about the pandemic is wearing a mask in airport bathrooms, those nasty rooms have the most intermingled smell of people's assholes of any other kind of bathroom, I hate them.  I use the gender neutral ones just to avoid that nasty.  I beg for public restrooms with unisex stalls (only) that are fully enclosed small private rooms with a shared sink outside for everyone.  the bathroom bullshit has such an easy fix for gender, for boys going potty with moms, girls going potty with dads and zhes and zhims too. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by troph

[troph 24905]

Just now, Harrison Bergeron said:

I appreciate your perspective. I would love to have a deeper conversation about some of these issues, but we know how that will turn out. My lived experience is there is not always perfect aligning between individuals and an "agenda" for lack of a better word, and that people are not as monolithic as cable news would have us believe.

I don't think I have it in me for another AMA thread.  I did one.  I really am not interested in being accused of wanting all the attention but I'm happy to converse privately with anyone about anything trans related. with respect no question is dumb or offensive.

[Guest Lobo]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

I hate the smell of other people's shit - in fact the best part about the pandemic is wearing a mask in airport bathrooms, those nasty rooms have the most intermingled smell of people's assholes of any other kind of bathroom, I hate them.  

You seem very brave for making the life choices you have, and putting up the requisite fallout from certain corners of society in order to be yourself...and be a better parent.  

But make no mistake, your position on public bathrooms is neither original nor bold.  Your gender change doesn't entitle you to not have to wallow in the same "I ate too much Chowder and drank too much Guinness" shit stew at Logan Airport on a Friday morning.  I don't want you getting harassed or insulted while you're making your bathroom choices at the airport.  But you'll fucking suck it up and piss and/or shit where the rest of us have to down here on the ground, like in O'Hare terminal 5 where I once saw an intestinal worm still squirming around the toilet bowl while looking for a clean stall to use before a long flight.  Because at 35,000 feet over the Atlantic, nobody cares about what we're going through politically or transformationally.....everybody's just tacitly glad that we all chose to shit down in those disgusting stalls instead of stinking up the plane for the next 7 hours at altitude.    #isupportyourstruggle

[immamac 42916]

Did Chappelle tell a not funny joke or something? what the fuck are the last 3 pages of this thread and why is it hot?

[BabaYaga 15305]

49 minutes ago, troph said:

and don't piss on each other.

Had to be done....;)

[Telegraph_it 3359]

34 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Because at 35,000 feet over the Atlantic, nobody cares about what we're going through politically or transformationally.....everybody's just tacitly glad that we all chose to shit down in those disgusting stalls instead of stinking up the plane for the next 7 hours at altitude.    #isupportyourstruggle

I take it you have never flown on Air India. 

[troph 24905]

31 minutes ago, immamac said:

Did Chappelle tell a not funny joke or something? what the fuck are the last 3 pages of this thread and why is it hot?

it's hot because I'm here, duh.

[troph 24905]

59 minutes ago, Lobo said:

You seem very brave for making the life choices you have, and putting up the requisite fallout from certain corners of society in order to be yourself...and be a better parent.  

But make no mistake, your position on public bathrooms is neither original nor bold.  Your gender change doesn't entitle you to not have to wallow in the same "I ate too much Chowder and drank too much Guinness" shit stew at Logan Airport on a Friday morning.  I don't want you getting harassed or insulted while you're making your bathroom choices at the airport.  But you'll fucking suck it up and piss and/or shit where the rest of us have to down here on the ground, like in O'Hare terminal 5 where I once saw an intestinal worm still squirming around the toilet bowl while looking for a clean stall to use before a long flight.  Because at 35,000 feet over the Atlantic, nobody cares about what we're going through politically or transformationally.....everybody's just tacitly glad that we all chose to shit down in those disgusting stalls instead of stinking up the plane for the next 7 hours at altitude.    #isupportyourstruggle

that's THE most disgusting thing I have ever read.

['stache 21838]

1 hour ago, BHMCruiser said:

I don't think any serious person would deny that you are a member of a minority that is being actively discriminated against in a myriad of ways, many of which are truly unjust (or even dangerous at the interpersonal level). That must be exhausting and I think you are remarkably even-keeled given that you are in a position of "taking all comers" (no pun intended) on every aspect of this issue. So, on a personal level, I respect that about you. 

I think it will be very hard, if not impossible, to bridge the gap between the people like you and your allies and the people who think you are suffering from a mental illness that has manifested itself in depraved and/or pitiful ways. That was probably the weakest part of Chappelle's special: his observation that the trans movement was so successful in such a short period of time. I don't think that's an accurate observation. 

I agree it's probably inaccurate (I'm not part of either community so I cannot speak with any certainty), but a few observations are that (1) the civil rights movement for black people began and had some quick success at a time where nobody spoke about trans people and being gay was still illegal in many states, so there was a huge time advantage there, and (2) it seems to me that trans and even some gay people are still being discriminated against not only on social media but by people in power. As a society we were far more progressive as a whole when trans and gay issues really came to a head, so it makes a lot of sense that it had quicker success.

But, even if the statement is true (and again I don't speak for either community so maybe it is) what does it matter? We can't address LGBTQ discrimination until racial discrimination is eliminated? 

I think Dave's anger, if I understood it correctly, is misdirected. He seems frustrated with the trans and LGTBQ community for these issues. He should be mad at the majority in this country which, if he's correct, made LGBTQ acceptance easier than racial acceptance. It's not the trans communities fault that many white people have regressed on race relations in full cloak room fashion. The direction of his frustrations seems off to me.

[Guest Lobo]

14 minutes ago, troph said:

that's THE most disgusting thing I have ever read.

So I can casually summon prose more vile to you than anything the brilliant satirist, Chappelle, can do?  Should we rethink this thread then?  

[BabaYaga 15305]

15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I think Dave's anger, if I understood it correctly, is misdirected. He seems frustrated with the trans and LGTBQ community for these issues. He should be mad at the majority in this country which, if he's correct, made LGBTQ acceptance easier than racial acceptance. It's not the trans communities fault that many white people have regressed on race relations in full cloak room fashion. The direction of his frustrations seems off to me.

He addresses this: “I have never had a problem with transgender people. If you listen to what I’m saying clearly, my problem has always been with white people,”........... “Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again.”

 

[troph 24905]

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

So I can casually summon prose more vile to you than anything the brilliant satirist, Chappelle, can do?  Should we rethink this thread then?  

disgusting doesn't have to be offensive or hypocritical or disingenious, but in that case maybe YOU need a $20m special!

[troph 24905]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

He addresses this: “I have never had a problem with transgender people. If you listen to what I’m saying clearly, my problem has always been with white people,”........... “Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again.”

 

already went way down the rabbit hole on this one. not going to do it again.  I stand by my comments.