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The Surly Official 2020 Corching Search Thread of DOOM and DESPAIR

closetohumping

By closetohumping
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If it ain't Urban, who do you want?  

283 members have voted

  1. 1. Speaking of polls, I had sex with South_Austin's mom

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closetojumping
closetojumping

I am looking at things like this: Tier 1 - The Job Is Yours If You Change Your Mind & We Haven't Filled It Urban Meyer - dude is a flake. Crazier shit has happened, but folks I trust thi

closetojumping
closetojumping

I'm of the opinion that anyone mentioning rehiring Mack Brown in this thread should be neg-bombed into the abyss or outright IP banned from this site. 

closetojumping
closetojumping

In a text string with my buddies, including @SydneyCarton and @HenryJames , during & after the TCU game, we started talking seriously about getting Urban Meyer. Maybe more like fantasizing about i

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6,455

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Can't recruit worth shit.  But I know it's ISU

Give him the talent Texas has currently and he'll win enough that recruiting will work itself out, with a little help from a good recruiting staff. It's hard to recruit people to Aimes, IA, where the main attraction is watching a flock of geese fly into a wind turbine. 

Edited by UncleBuck
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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4,970

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

Somebody talk me out of Matt Campbell.  I realize he is not the fancy, splash hire that most of us want, but he is what we need.  I have not seen many coaches do more with less than he has done at ISU.  He was also good at Toledo before.  I will take substance over flash any day of the week.  Can any of you say you don't fear having to play ISU with him as the coach?  I think that is a pretty good litmus test for a candidate.  Hell, I know Lincoln fears him.  Here is his record:

 

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches# AP°
Toledo Rockets (Mid-American Conference) (2011–2015)
2011 Toledo 1–0 0–0   W Military    
2012 Toledo 9–4 6–2 T–2nd (West) L Famous Idaho Potato    
2013 Toledo 7–5 5–3 T–3rd (West)      
2014 Toledo 9–4 7–1 T–1st (West) W GoDaddy    
2015 Toledo 9–2 6–2 T–1st (West) Boca Raton*    
Toledo: 35–15 24–8 * Departed Toledo for Iowa State before bowl game
Iowa State Cyclones (Big 12 Conference) (2016–present)
2016 Iowa State 3–9 2–7 9th      
2017 Iowa State 8–5 5–4 T–4th W Liberty    
2018 Iowa State 8–5 6–3 T–3rd L Alamo    
2019 Iowa State 7–6 5–4 T–3rd L Camping World    
2020 Iowa State 8–2 8–1 1st      
Iowa State: 34–27 26–19  
Total: 69–42  
      National championship         Conference title         Conference division title or championship game berth

 

I get the bowl record is not the greatest, but again, these are with 3 star kids with a few 4 stars sprinkled in.  Now imagine what he could do with 4 star kids and some 5 stars.  Am I totally off base here?

I will have to say it over and over again. "Imagine what he can do with Texas talent" is an excuse line and does not mean shit. The same was said about Herman and he lost to SMU with superior talent at Houston. Campbell lost to the Raging Cajuns and Oklahoma State that is a paper giant! So stop with imagine what they can do with Texas talent. If they lose with superior talent to lesser talent with their current roster during their best year they will lose to inferior talent at Texas.

Final year before moving on to NC job:

Saban - Only lost to ranked talent in his last year. Purdue which was ranked lower than his team had Drew Brees

Urban - Did not lose

Mack Brown - Only lost to higher ranked Florida State

 

 

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6,455

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Posted
5 minutes ago, USMCHorn said:

Why the FUCK is Art Briles being brought up?

Because he's one of only two Sure Deal candidates. Him and Urban. And neither of them are coming here. So we gotta stop pigeon holing ourselves on what an acceptable option is for the next Texas coach. No one will check all of the boxes. 

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Tex-19

Tex-19 2,885

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20 minutes ago, Big_kat said:

Somebody talk me out of Matt Campbell.  I realize he is not the fancy, splash hire that most of us want, but he is what we need.  I have not seen many coaches do more with less than he has done at ISU.  He was also good at Toledo before.  I will take substance over flash any day of the week.  Can any of you say you don't fear having to play ISU with him as the coach?  I think that is a pretty good litmus test for a candidate.  Hell, I know Lincoln fears him.  Here is his record:

 

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches# AP°
Toledo Rockets (Mid-American Conference) (2011–2015)
2011 Toledo 1–0 0–0   W Military    
2012 Toledo 9–4 6–2 T–2nd (West) L Famous Idaho Potato    
2013 Toledo 7–5 5–3 T–3rd (West)      
2014 Toledo 9–4 7–1 T–1st (West) W GoDaddy    
2015 Toledo 9–2 6–2 T–1st (West) Boca Raton*    
Toledo: 35–15 24–8 * Departed Toledo for Iowa State before bowl game
Iowa State Cyclones (Big 12 Conference) (2016–present)
2016 Iowa State 3–9 2–7 9th      
2017 Iowa State 8–5 5–4 T–4th W Liberty    
2018 Iowa State 8–5 6–3 T–3rd L Alamo    
2019 Iowa State 7–6 5–4 T–3rd L Camping World    
2020 Iowa State 8–2 8–1 1st      
Iowa State: 34–27 26–19  
Total: 69–42  
      National championship         Conference title         Conference division title or championship game berth

 

I get the bowl record is not the greatest, but again, these are with 3 star kids with a few 4 stars sprinkled in.  Now imagine what he could do with 4 star kids and some 5 stars.  Am I totally off base here?

I agree with all this. He's taking the equivalent of Kansas or pre-Briles Baylor and turned them into a CCG team. They're a balanced, disciplined team and it's in our conference against the same teams he'd play here. Imagine him with better talent and a bigger assistant budget.

Recruiting is an unknown because he's at ISU but just make sure he's got a few rainmakers on staff and he should be fine there.

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Tex-19

Tex-19 2,885

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Posted
41 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

 

Think about if Art Briles gets the Tech job because they suck it up and 86 the JAG they have there right now and realize that trading their soul for wins is the right Tech move and on brand. Briles has offered to take the Tech job for a few things:

1) $1 - literally, that's it.

2) Total control over football.

3) A big stack of money for his assistants and admins. 

He's told them they can negotiate a contract for him after 2 years when everyone sees where everything is at with the program. 

 

Seriously??? Jeez, we need this to hit the mainstream media so protests start erupting before the deal gets done.

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Nuthn2CHere

Nuthn2CHere 34

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Posted

This is a real question, I'm not a troll, and I understand many will shit on me for even asking. 

 

I'll start by saying that it's clear to me that Herman is not a *bad* coach.  He obviously does not perform up to our standards and seems like a pompous ass who rubs many fans, admin. and BMDs the wrong way, but he is an above average college coach.  My personal view of college football over the past 15 years, and even more so over the past decade, is that there are 1-5 truly elite college coaches who can predictably and systematically win at the highest levels.  Then there are a bunch of coaches who, whether because they don't have truly elite talent, or get outcoached sometimes but not most of the time, lose 2-5 games every year.  This is totally variable from year to year, but generally these are coaches that win more than they lose to varying degrees.  Herman is obviously one of those coaches.  

 

Can someone who knows more about recruiting tell me why we should buy out Herman, pay another probably very comparable coach as much or more to come here, only to continue to lose a similar number of games year to year?  Having missed on Urban, why is it out of the question to simply ride with Herman, who is at least winning (more than we could say about Strong)?  I gather it's to save and re-invigorate recruiting, but I don't see evidence that there is someone out there who will keep Bama and Clemson and especially tOSU from taking the best recruits out of Texas for the foreseeable future.  It really seems like missing out on Urban means we are back at Herman being our best option, which at least means winning twice as many games as we lose until someone else emerges as a truly elite option.  Getting rid of him because we hate his personality and because he isn't one of the best 5 coaches in the country, when none of those dudes is available, seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face, but I honestly don't know enough about the damage to recruiting that this approach would do in the medium and long term.  Someone please enlighten me.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9,208

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

I will have to say it over and over again. "Imagine what he can do with Texas talent" is an excuse line and does not mean shit. The same was said about Herman and he lost to SMU with superior talent at Houston. Campbell lost to the Raging Cajuns and Oklahoma State that is a paper giant! So stop with imagine what they can do with Texas talent. If they lose with superior talent to lesser talent with their current roster during their best year they will lose to inferior talent at Texas.

Final year before moving on to NC job:

Saban - Only lost to ranked talent in his last year. Purdue which was ranked lower than his team had Drew Brees

Urban - Did not lose

Mack Brown - Only lost to higher ranked Florida State

 

 

UNC, MSU, and Utah are all much, much more prestigious programs with a whole different level of talent than Iowa State. That's not really a fair comparison. Apples to Chainsaws.

It's also a really cherry-picked argument. In his six years, Campbell has lost to less talented teams twice, and one of those was his first game of his first season. I'm not going to go back and look, but I bet even Saban, Urban, and Mack had the same of bad losses, or more, prior to their NC jobs.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9,208

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Just now, Nuthn2CHere said:

This is a real question, I'm not a troll, and I understand many will shit on me for even asking. 

 

I'll start by saying that it's clear to me that Herman is not a *bad* coach.  He obviously does not perform up to our standards and seems like a pompous ass who rubs many fans, admin. and BMDs the wrong way, but he is an above average college coach. 

By the very definition of "average" and "average" or "above average" coach wouldn't consistently lose to garbage can teams with Texas' talent. 

An average coach would lose about 2.5 games per year at Texas.

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CastHorn

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12 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

Give him the talent Texas has currently and he'll win enough that recruiting will work itself out, with a little help from a good recruiting staff. It's hard to recruit people to Aimes, IA, where the main attraction is watching a flock of geese fly into a wind turbine. 

Iowa State has just as much NFL Talent on their roster as ours. They aren’t a team of scrubs.

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GTX Horn

GTX Horn 1,710

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11 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

Give him the talent Texas has currently and he'll win enough that recruiting will work itself out, with a little help from a good recruiting staff. It's hard to recruit people to Aimes, IA, where the main attraction is watching a flock of geese fly into a wind turbine. 

Well how good of a recruiter was Saban at Michigan State? I genuinely don’t know the answer to that, but it would stand to reason that if Campbell came here and had immediate success and competed for conference championships, his job as a recruiter would be a lot easier.

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6th Street

6th Street 6,509

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Nuthn2CHere said:

This is a real question, I'm not a troll, and I understand many will shit on me for even asking. 

 

I'll start by saying that it's clear to me that Herman is not a *bad* coach.  He obviously does not perform up to our standards and seems like a pompous ass who rubs many fans, admin. and BMDs the wrong way, but he is an above average college coach.  My personal view of college football over the past 15 years, and even more so over the past decade, is that there are 1-5 truly elite college coaches who can predictably and systematically win at the highest levels.  Then there are a bunch of coaches who, whether because they don't have truly elite talent, or get outcoached sometimes but not most of the time, lose 2-5 games every year.  This is totally variable from year to year, but generally these are coaches that win more than they lose to varying degrees.  Herman is obviously one of those coaches.  

 

Can someone who knows more about recruiting tell me why we should buy out Herman, pay another probably very comparable coach as much or more to come here, only to continue to lose a similar number of games year to year?  Having missed on Urban, why is it out of the question to simply ride with Herman, who is at least winning (more than we could say about Strong)?  I gather it's to save and re-invigorate recruiting, but I don't see evidence that there is someone out there who will keep Bama and Clemson and especially tOSU from taking the best recruits out of Texas for the foreseeable future.  It really seems like missing out on Urban means we are back at Herman being our best option, which at least means winning twice as many games as we lose until someone else emerges as a truly elite option.  Getting rid of him because we hate his personality and because he isn't one of the best 5 coaches in the country, when none of those dudes is available, seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face, but I honestly don't know enough about the damage to recruiting that this approach would do in the medium and long term.  Someone please enlighten me.

Those Herman wins are empty calories against bottom feeders. Look we are 0-6 in our last 6 meetings with OU, ISU, and TCU. And next year we are breaking in a new QB, LT, and pass rusher

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Viper

Viper 12,112

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Nuthn2CHere said:

This is a real question, I'm not a troll, and I understand many will shit on me for even asking. 

 

I'll start by saying that it's clear to me that Herman is not a *bad* coach.  He obviously does not perform up to our standards and seems like a pompous ass who rubs many fans, admin. and BMDs the wrong way, but he is an above average college coach.  My personal view of college football over the past 15 years, and even more so over the past decade, is that there are 1-5 truly elite college coaches who can predictably and systematically win at the highest levels.  Then there are a bunch of coaches who, whether because they don't have truly elite talent, or get outcoached sometimes but not most of the time, lose 2-5 games every year.  This is totally variable from year to year, but generally these are coaches that win more than they lose to varying degrees.  Herman is obviously one of those coaches.  

 

Can someone who knows more about recruiting tell me why we should buy out Herman, pay another probably very comparable coach as much or more to come here, only to continue to lose a similar number of games year to year?  Having missed on Urban, why is it out of the question to simply ride with Herman, who is at least winning (more than we could say about Strong)?  I gather it's to save and re-invigorate recruiting, but I don't see evidence that there is someone out there who will keep Bama and Clemson and especially tOSU from taking the best recruits out of Texas for the foreseeable future.  It really seems like missing out on Urban means we are back at Herman being our best option, which at least means winning twice as many games as we lose until someone else emerges as a truly elite option.  Getting rid of him because we hate his personality and because he isn't one of the best 5 coaches in the country, when none of those dudes is available, seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face, but I honestly don't know enough about the damage to recruiting that this approach would do in the medium and long term.  Someone please enlighten me.

 

well partly because it's going to be harder for Herman to attract elite position coaches since most don't like him. Look at the fiasco with finding (and failing) a WR coach. Numerous stellar coaches were talked about only for Herman to strike out on attracting any of them and to have to default with Andre Coleman who was already on staff. The second part is recruiting. We may pull in LJ Johnson this year but I think we're done getting much top 25 talent in 22 and beyond.

 

The big question that changes all this is if he can learn and grow as a coach. Most signs point to no. Will he take the team's offensive performance against KSU as a lesson to take the limiter off Yurcich or will he go back to his ways.

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CastHorn

CastHorn 820

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Posted
1 minute ago, UncleBuck said:

Did I say NFL talent? 

Texas is ranked #5 in this years College Football Team NFL "Talent" Composite. Iowa Steak is #57. Yah, there's a big difference.

Im just saying the talent differential isn’t as broad as you guys make it seem. We have bigger athletes on the defensive line & a couple of our WRs have dynamic straight line speed. I think that’s about it. 

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Big_kat

Big_kat 334

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Posted
9 minutes ago, CastHorn said:

Iowa State has just as much NFL Talent on their roster as ours. They aren’t a team of scrubs.

But where they NFL projections to start outor has the ISU staff made them NFL caliber?  One of, If not the, most glaring issue with this staff is players that do not develop.  Yes, you will have high 4 and 5 stars that are busts but nowhere at the rate it happens here.  he develops kids.  Can that be said here?

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Tex-19

Tex-19 2,885

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Posted
20 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

I will have to say it over and over again. "Imagine what he can do with Texas talent" is an excuse line and does not mean shit. The same was said about Herman and he lost to SMU with superior talent at Houston. Campbell lost to the Raging Cajuns and Oklahoma State that is a paper giant! So stop with imagine what they can do with Texas talent. If they lose with superior talent to lesser talent with their current roster during their best year they will lose to inferior talent at Texas.

Final year before moving on to NC job:

Saban - Only lost to ranked talent in his last year. Purdue which was ranked lower than his team had Drew Brees

Urban - Did not lose

Mack Brown - Only lost to higher ranked Florida State

 

 

So you want a coach that's never lost to a team with inferior talent? Then your list is no one. Games all have a win/loss probability. Crazy things happen that lead to upsets. The point is that those odds get much better with UT talent, so a 7-2 ISU team becomes an 8-1 or 9-0 UT team. In other words, a playoff team.

Saban was 34-24 at Michigan St. and they are a stronger program than ISU. Urban was 8-5 his last year at Florida.

Is Louisiana a bad loss? Of course. But they're actually ranked this year. Ok St definitely has more talent in terms of recruiting rankings.

The difference is that Herman played cupcakes every single week at UH, not the weekly competition of a P5 conference, so it was a much bigger transition. Campbell is already doing it in our conference against the exact same opponents.

Now, I would like to see Campbell maintain his success without Purdy but that's not an option for us.

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Texasrocks

Texasrocks 2,149

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Nuthn2CHere said:

This is a real question, I'm not a troll, and I understand many will shit on me for even asking. 

 

I'll start by saying that it's clear to me that Herman is not a *bad* coach.  He obviously does not perform up to our standards and seems like a pompous ass who rubs many fans, admin. and BMDs the wrong way, but he is an above average college coach.  My personal view of college football over the past 15 years, and even more so over the past decade, is that there are 1-5 truly elite college coaches who can predictably and systematically win at the highest levels.  Then there are a bunch of coaches who, whether because they don't have truly elite talent, or get outcoached sometimes but not most of the time, lose 2-5 games every year.  This is totally variable from year to year, but generally these are coaches that win more than they lose to varying degrees.  Herman is obviously one of those coaches.  

 

Can someone who knows more about recruiting tell me why we should buy out Herman, pay another probably very comparable coach as much or more to come here, only to continue to lose a similar number of games year to year?  Having missed on Urban, why is it out of the question to simply ride with Herman, who is at least winning (more than we could say about Strong)?  I gather it's to save and re-invigorate recruiting, but I don't see evidence that there is someone out there who will keep Bama and Clemson and especially tOSU from taking the best recruits out of Texas for the foreseeable future.  It really seems like missing out on Urban means we are back at Herman being our best option, which at least means winning twice as many games as we lose until someone else emerges as a truly elite option.  Getting rid of him because we hate his personality and because he isn't one of the best 5 coaches in the country, when none of those dudes is available, seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face, but I honestly don't know enough about the damage to recruiting that this approach would do in the medium and long term.  Someone please enlighten me.

I'd add a tier of coaches between Saban/Meyer/Dabo and Herman. There's the Mack Brown tier that consistently loses to the first tier coaches, but generally beats everyone else. Herman isn't in that group so why waste more time with him. If we're going to fail with a coach, it's best to do it quickly and move on as soon as possible to try and find one of the guys that is in that first or second tier.  

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brojangles2

brojangles2 786

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I'm stepping back for a couple of years if we do not get Urban. The others on the list are eye rollers, ready to give us the same shit we have seen from the last two misses. Its honestly been nice in my backyard on Saturdays, not paying LHF, not having to get hotels all season, etc... Im getting to be fairly apathetic to this whole shit show. 

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