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Posted

No idea how but hope the CBA deals with players sabotaging their current teams to force a trade with zero leverage when they have more than one year remaining on contract. 
 

maybe a compensation lotto pick?  Something like baseball does etc. 

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Posted

espn+ grade for the trade, for whatever it's worth:

Houston Rockets: A-

hou.png?w=80&h=80&transparent=true

In some alternate dimension of the multiverse, this season's Rockets play on with a committed Harden as their centerpiece and I'm fascinated to know how things work out. They've gotten better than expected play so far from newcomers DeMarcus Cousins and John Wall, while Christian Wood has brought a different dimension to the offense with his ability to be both a pick-and-roll partner for Harden and a shot creator in his own right.

Without buy-in from Harden, however, there was little chance of things working out in Houston. Back-to-back blowout home losses against the Los Angeles Lakers, followed by his incendiary postgame comments Tuesday, spelled the end of the Harden era for the Rockets. And while I'm sure that was embarrassing then and disappointing today, it's hard to say waiting worked out poorly for Houston, which was able to leverage the Nets into offering a motherload of picks.

The trade that sent Paul George from the Thunder to the LA Clippers (with free agent Kawhi Leonard) has become the standard for all other NBA pick-based trades. In that one, Oklahoma City got four unprotected first-round picks, one protected first-rounder and two unprotected swaps. This haul -- four unprotected picks and an incredible four unprotected swaps -- is similar value.

 
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Over the next few years, it's doubtful the picks or swaps the Rockets get from Brooklyn will make up for the ones they're out thanks to the Russell Westbrook trade. Still, they will give Houston a steady source of young talent with the potential for huge returns down the road. Given what they've seen the past month, the Rockets might feel good betting against how well Harden will age in his mid-30s.

For now, Houston can evaluate how well Oladipo fits in. Early returns from this season are mixed. Oladipo has been much more efficient than we saw during his comeback from a quadriceps tendon rupture in 2019-20, though his finishing still remains an issue. Oladipo has made 54% of his shots inside three feet, per Basketball-Reference.com, down from a career-high 69% when he was voted to the All-NBA Third Team in 2017-18 prior to the injury. The Rockets shouldn't count on Oladipo getting back to that level. I'd probably rather have just kept LeVert.

There's a downgrade from even the lesser version of Harden to Oladipo that Houston will have to hope to offset with better chemistry. If the Rockets don't look likely to make the playoffs by the deadline, they'll have decisions to make on both Oladipo -- an unrestricted free agent at season's end -- and veteran forward P.J. Tucker, who would be an attractive target for contenders.

In a remarkable turn of events, Houston could go from in the luxury tax to start this season to having cap space this summer if Oladipo walks. They turned Harden's $44.3 million salary into just one player under contract for 2021-22: Kurucs, whose $1.9 million salary is a team option. The Rockets aren't going to be serious players in free agency as long as Wall's contract (which runs through a player option in 2022-23) is on the books. But if Houston ends up heading down some sort of rebuild path, the team will have the ability to take on bad salaries to add still more draft picks.

This certainly wasn't Plan A for the Rockets, who hoped Harden could lead them back to the conference finals this season. As compared to how bleak the future looked after last year's playoff elimination, however, Houston now has a reasonable path forward.

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Posted
  On 1/13/2021 at 11:20 PM, Brothahorn said:

So in 2022, The Rockets get 3 1st round picks? Possible 3 in 2023?

https://tradenba.com/teams/Rockets/11/draft-picks

 

With a little luck and good scouting this is a good deal. No reason to hate unless you just don't like the Rockets.

 

 

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2022 draft is going to be deep as fuck too because of the disruptions caused by COVID. Lots of players will be draft eligible 

Posted

If not for the CP3-RW trade that Harden forced, the future for the Rockets would look bomb. Need to revisit what picks and swaps OKC gets to know if they are about to get Texan’d (handing over a high draft pick by sucking after a trade that was supposed to make you great).

If Harden has peaked and/or the Nets break up in a year or two and start to suck, this trade will look like theft. 

Posted
  On 1/14/2021 at 12:08 AM, Murfdogg21 said:

If not for the CP3-RW trade that Harden forced, the future for the Rockets would look bomb. Need to revisit what picks and swaps OKC gets to know if they are about to get Texan’d (handing over a high draft pick by sucking after a trade that was supposed to make you great).

If Harden has peaked and/or the Nets break up in a year or two and start to suck, this trade will look like theft. 

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Yep. But that won’t bear any fruit in contention until about 2028 at the earliest (first time you could hope for a high pick is likely 24 or 25. 

Posted
  On 1/14/2021 at 1:32 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

What’s wood worth in a hypothetical trade?

hes your only good asset and no way he matched any time table for serious chance at competing for a title...

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He's 25, you build around him. The Rockets aren't rebuilding for 5 to 6 years.

Posted
  On 1/14/2021 at 1:50 AM, HtownHorn said:

He's 25, you build around him. The Rockets aren't rebuilding for 5 to 6 years.

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No?  Having 65 million ties up in Wall and Gordon makes you believe. There’s a chance at title contention? 
big ticket FA gonna want to play for Ferntits? 
you are dreaming I think. 
how many assets did Jeff Lunow not trade? 

Posted
  On 1/13/2021 at 9:48 PM, David Dennison said:

Watching those three try to co-exist is going to be very entertaining.

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I know you guys love KD - and I honestly have no real issues with him.  But Harden and Kyrie are petty little bitches and if karma exists at all they are up shit creek.  I thought Kyrie was far and away the biggest bitch superstar in the league but Harden's fat ass has rallied hard for the crown.  This shit is gonna be hilarious.  And Houston will end up with some high draft picks once these dbags burn down the nets.  I'd say a definite win for the Rockets. 

Posted
  On 1/13/2021 at 11:19 PM, BigOrange1 said:

espn+ grade for the trade, for whatever it's worth:

Houston Rockets: A-

hou.png?w=80&h=80&transparent=true

In some alternate dimension of the multiverse, this season's Rockets play on with a committed Harden as their centerpiece and I'm fascinated to know how things work out. They've gotten better than expected play so far from newcomers DeMarcus Cousins and John Wall, while Christian Wood has brought a different dimension to the offense with his ability to be both a pick-and-roll partner for Harden and a shot creator in his own right.

Without buy-in from Harden, however, there was little chance of things working out in Houston. Back-to-back blowout home losses against the Los Angeles Lakers, followed by his incendiary postgame comments Tuesday, spelled the end of the Harden era for the Rockets. And while I'm sure that was embarrassing then and disappointing today, it's hard to say waiting worked out poorly for Houston, which was able to leverage the Nets into offering a motherload of picks.

The trade that sent Paul George from the Thunder to the LA Clippers (with free agent Kawhi Leonard) has become the standard for all other NBA pick-based trades. In that one, Oklahoma City got four unprotected first-round picks, one protected first-rounder and two unprotected swaps. This haul -- four unprotected picks and an incredible four unprotected swaps -- is similar value.

 
Get the best of ESPN sent to your inboxThe ESPN Daily delivers the biggest sports news and moments every weekday.
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Over the next few years, it's doubtful the picks or swaps the Rockets get from Brooklyn will make up for the ones they're out thanks to the Russell Westbrook trade. Still, they will give Houston a steady source of young talent with the potential for huge returns down the road. Given what they've seen the past month, the Rockets might feel good betting against how well Harden will age in his mid-30s.

For now, Houston can evaluate how well Oladipo fits in. Early returns from this season are mixed. Oladipo has been much more efficient than we saw during his comeback from a quadriceps tendon rupture in 2019-20, though his finishing still remains an issue. Oladipo has made 54% of his shots inside three feet, per Basketball-Reference.com, down from a career-high 69% when he was voted to the All-NBA Third Team in 2017-18 prior to the injury. The Rockets shouldn't count on Oladipo getting back to that level. I'd probably rather have just kept LeVert.

There's a downgrade from even the lesser version of Harden to Oladipo that Houston will have to hope to offset with better chemistry. If the Rockets don't look likely to make the playoffs by the deadline, they'll have decisions to make on both Oladipo -- an unrestricted free agent at season's end -- and veteran forward P.J. Tucker, who would be an attractive target for contenders.

In a remarkable turn of events, Houston could go from in the luxury tax to start this season to having cap space this summer if Oladipo walks. They turned Harden's $44.3 million salary into just one player under contract for 2021-22: Kurucs, whose $1.9 million salary is a team option. The Rockets aren't going to be serious players in free agency as long as Wall's contract (which runs through a player option in 2022-23) is on the books. But if Houston ends up heading down some sort of rebuild path, the team will have the ability to take on bad salaries to add still more draft picks.

This certainly wasn't Plan A for the Rockets, who hoped Harden could lead them back to the conference finals this season. As compared to how bleak the future looked after last year's playoff elimination, however, Houston now has a reasonable path forward.

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Mind pasting what Zach Lowe wrote on it?

Posted
  On 1/14/2021 at 3:53 PM, LCHorn said:

Mind pasting what Zach Lowe wrote on it?

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Posted

Play all the 1st year guys and see if any of them can become NBA rotational players. Tell Oladipo they will try to move him to a contender by the trade deadline. Exum and Kurucs are likely done with the Rockets after this season.

Meaning the only real salaries they have for next year are Wall, Gordon, and Wood.

Hopefully House sees this opportunity and becomes more mature.

I think McLemore and Tucker will also be traded at the deadline because they have roles on title contending teams.

Posted
  On 1/15/2021 at 3:06 AM, BigOrange1 said:

ok definitely wasn't expecting a win with tonight's depleted roster.

no sense in tanking this year as okc controls the pick.  might as well see if the new roster can win some games.

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Unless the pick is in the top 4, correct? Tank baby tank!

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Posted (edited)

Hopefully the Rockets have a deal in place for Oladipo, because they will lose him in FA after the season to his preferred destination of Miami.

Edited by HtownHorn
Posted
  On 1/16/2021 at 10:42 PM, HtownHorn said:
Hopefully the Rockets have a deal in place for Oladipo, because they will lose him in FA after the season to his preferred destination of Miami.
I assume they would only trade him for picks. I dont think they want more salary in exchange, so it's not likely they'll get a good trade for Oladipo. He might get packaged up as part of a multi-team.
Posted

I think Christian Wood and occasional big nights from Wall will keep the Rockets from completely tanking. 

I like Cousins' new and improved attitude, but the guy looks washed. Really, really awkward when he drives to the basket. At best, he's three and post up guy now. 

Posted
  On 1/17/2021 at 5:02 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

I think Christian Wood and occasional big nights from Wall will keep the Rockets from completely tanking. 

I like Cousins' new and improved attitude, but the guy looks washed. Really, really awkward when he drives to the basket. At best, he's three and post up guy now. 

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Yeah. Cousins looks really bad. Still has skill, but he had limited athleticism even with 2 good legs.

Posted

If the intent is to tank, the Net's offer makes the most sense. That said, I feel bad for Wood. He's going to be in his prime on some very bad teams. 

Stone explaining to Fertitta that the Rockets will have to pay Wall $45-47 million for 20 wins seasons must have been a fun conversation. 

Posted
  On 1/17/2021 at 9:33 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

If the intent is to tank, the Net's offer makes the most sense. That said, I feel bad for Wood. He's going to be in his prime on some very bad teams. 

Stone explaining to Fertitta that the Rockets will have to pay Wall $45-47 million for 20 wins seasons must have been a fun conversation. 

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There’s a salary floor in basketball so it shouldn’t really matter. But I’m sure Ferntits is likely broken up about it. 

Posted

Would you do this:

tucker and dipo to Miami for Olynick, Myers Leonard and 24 and 26 draft picks. 
Miami gets rid of 2 negative value contracts at the expense of 2 picks well into the future- while adding the best glue guy on the market and a guy that looks healthy after being an all star recently. Pat Riley is almost 80. He isn’t likely buying green bananas let alone worrying about draft picks 3-5 years down the road. 

Posted

there is a slight problem with trading with miami this year.  the rockets get the worst of their own, okc or miami's 1st round pick this year.  right now, miami is dogshit and all three picks are lottery picks at the moment).  i'm sure that miami won't remain in the lottery by the end of the year, but there is no incentive to help them right now while they are struggling. 

Posted
  On 1/17/2021 at 11:29 PM, BigOrange1 said:

there is a slight problem with trading with miami this year.  the rockets get the worst of their own, okc or miami's 1st round pick this year.  right now, miami is dogshit and all three picks are lottery picks at the moment).  i'm sure that miami won't remain in the lottery by the end of the year, but there is no incentive to help them right now while they are struggling. 

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Well, unless we are so dogshit bad that we make the Top 4 of the lottery.

Posted
  On 1/17/2021 at 11:29 PM, BigOrange1 said:

there is a slight problem with trading with miami this year.  the rockets get the worst of their own, okc or miami's 1st round pick this year.  right now, miami is dogshit and all three picks are lottery picks at the moment).  i'm sure that miami won't remain in the lottery by the end of the year, but there is no incentive to help them right now while they are struggling. 

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I hadn’t even considered that. 
personally I think we will tank and try to be really bad and hopefully win a top 4 pick and keep it, and if not live with Miami’s pick wherever that falls. 
But yeah- hadn’t even considered that. I guess I just think- 20-23 when I see all the swaps. 

Posted

true.  but that feels like a huge risk given the changes to the lottery.  could be the 4th worst team but that doesn't mean you're getting a top 4 pick.

i feel like they'd need to have the worst record in the league to really have any confidence that they'd actually get a top 4 pick.

Posted
  On 1/17/2021 at 11:43 PM, BigOrange1 said:

true.  but that feels like a huge risk given the changes to the lottery.  could be the 4th worst team but that doesn't mean you're getting a top 4 pick.

i feel like they'd need to have the worst record in the league to really have any confidence that they'd actually get a top 4 pick.

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Even worst record I’m the league is only like 50/60 percent at top 4. Their alternative to a race to the bottom is scrapping to be in the play in tourney. I’d just as soon collect Ping Pong balls even if it only gives me a 1/4 or 1/5 shot at keeping the pick. 
reasonable minds can certainly differ. 

Posted

oh i'd definitely be up for tanking if not for the franchise crushing westbrook trade that put us in this mess to begin with.  hell, i'm not even against it now.  just wish we controlled this year's pick as i think there are some real difference makers at the top of the draft and we have basically 0 shot at them.  

#1 priority of the franchise right now is finding the next #1 guy.  ideally sooner rather than later.  however it happens is fine with me.

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Posted

ok, if the chart on wikipedia is to be believed (and I added correctly), here are the odds of landing a top 4 pick by record:

8th worst record - 26.3%

7th worst - 31.96%

6th worst - 37.23%

5th worst - 42.13%

4th worst - 48.08%

1-3 - 52.14%

 

if you're gonna tank, think you need to shoot for at least the 6th worst record in the league.  that actually feels attainable....

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Posted
  On 1/18/2021 at 12:59 AM, BigOrange1 said:

ok, if the chart on wikipedia is to be believed (and I added correctly), here are the odds of landing a top 4 pick by record:

8th worst record - 26.3%

7th worst - 31.96%

6th worst - 37.23%

5th worst - 42.13%

4th worst - 48.08%

1-3 - 52.14%

 

if you're gonna tank, think you need to shoot for at least the 6th worst record in the league.  that actually feels attainable....

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Yep. I’d rather a 37% chance at keeping the pick than 10th seed and play in game. 

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