Why Are We Not Better - Are We the #1 Underperformer?

[WBT 20421]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

This is the problem. Texas is not a better program than a shit ton of others that are currently more successful, the external factors are what is holding Texas back.

What are the external factors?  Someone please list them.  Just because Mack Brown is a passive/agressive whiner and has buddies in the media to amplify his message doesn't mean Texas has different external factors than Alabama, Ohio State, or any other big school reliant on BMD.

Edited December 9, 2020 by WBT

[LTtxfan 48972]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

Yeah I dont get why people need some big intertwined theory here. We sucked dick for the entirety of the 90s. We hired Mack and we were the 2nd winningest team of the 00's. Mack got complacent and the program suffered, and then we hired two shitty coaches.    OU struggled with several coaches before Stoops. Alabama struggled with several coaches before Saban. Clemson struggled with several coaches before Dabo. Florida has struggled since Spurrier left. Florida State has been all but irrelevant since Bowden entered senility. 

Get the right coach that is the right fit for the program and we will win. Not easy to do, but that's really it. Football is about getting the best players AND coaching them up when they get here. Gotta have both pieces. Everything else is trivial. 

Agree... get the right coach.  Great points on Mack, Saban, Stoops, Spurrier, Dabo.  Add Urban at Ohio State...

Folks keep it simple -- get the right coach that can handle the TEXAS program and we will have a great program again.  

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by LTtxfan

[ousux 5587]

JFC will you guys quit posting that embarrassing video?

Sorry Tom.

You need any reccomendations for movers who wont destroy/steal your shit? I'm happy to help

[ousux 5587]

I think this is bullshit.

Cheating gets players to show up.
We've had players show up.

Cheating doesn't get results on the field, especially if everyone is supposedly cheating.

We haven't won because we haven't won. There is no magic cheating dust that has caused us to not win the conference. We just don't win it consistently.

We are going to win.

Eric Dickerson and his Maroon Firebird would like word with you..

Yeah, cheating is a slippery slope. However if your biggest rivals are doing it and the organization overseeing such things have become toothless, complacent..and wealthy by mostly ignoring all but the more blatant and rep ruining cheating, should we continue riding our high horse straight to a shitty mid tier bowl nearly every year?

[mr.goodkat 464]

17 minutes ago, ousux said:

Eric Dickerson and his Maroon Firebird would like word with you..

Yeah, cheating is a slippery slope. However if your biggest rivals are doing it and the organization overseeing such things have become toothless, complacent..and wealthy by mostly ignoring all but the more blatant and rep ruining cheating, should we continue riding our high horse straight to a shitty mid tier bowl nearly every year?

it was gold 

[tbone_ 14022]

A fish rots from the head down.

[Blotto 23434]

1 hour ago, ousux said:

Eric Dickerson and his Maroon Firebird would like word with you..

Yeah, cheating is a slippery slope. However if your biggest rivals are doing it and the organization overseeing such things have become toothless, complacent..and wealthy by mostly ignoring all but the more blatant and rep ruining cheating, should we continue riding our high horse straight to a shitty mid tier bowl nearly every year?

There was plenty of cheating going on in college football from 2000-2010 and we did just fine.  Our inability to win more national titles in that decade had nothing to do with the extent that we did or did not cheat. The schools that complain the most about others teams cheating are the ones that are mired in mediocrity after hiring shitty coaches. Its a convenient excuse for why their alma mater isn't having the god given success it deserves. 

I always laugh at the cheating excuse when our recruiting doesn't match expectations, yet when we land top 5 classes, we just assume our recruiting was above board in all cases. Does it happen? Sure. Does it happen at Texas? Sure. Do other schools do it more than Texas? Sure. Did it make a difference from 2010-2020? Not really. 

[SHOOTER12 8789]

40 minutes ago, ousux said:

Sorry Tom.

You need any reccomendations for movers who wont destroy/steal your shit? I'm happy to help

Not Tom, but damn that's embarrassing for any Texas fan.  A coach trying to look hardcore and falling all over the place because he's such a wimp he can't swing an 8lb(appears to be) sledgehammer.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

3 hours ago, DaggerHorns said:

It’s extremely embarrassing but at least we  know who we are and we deserve it.

Repost for you Shooter!

 

 

Negged

[Beantown Express 2.0 6554]

24 minutes ago, Blotto said:

There was plenty of cheating going on in college football from 2000-2010 and we did just fine.  Our inability to win more national titles in that decade had nothing to do with the extent that we did or did not cheat. The schools that complain the most about others teams cheating are the ones that are mired in mediocrity after hiring shitty coaches. Its a convenient excuse for why their alma mater isn't having the god given success it deserves. 

I always laugh at the cheating excuse when our recruiting doesn't match expectations, yet when we land top 5 classes, we just assume our recruiting was above board in all cases. Does it happen? Sure. Does it happen at Texas? Sure. Do other schools do it more than Texas? Sure. Did it make a difference from 2010-2020? Not really. 

This right here.  We cheat just like every other school does except maybe in a few cases where there are "handlers" for some of these kids.  Those of you that think we are not paying players are dead wrong.  We have been doing it since I was back in school in the 80s/90s (pretty sure we did it before that also) and we still do it today.  Many of you have said the obvious answer which is coaching.  Once Saban retires, Alabama may not remain a "machine".  Doesn't work that way.  When Bear Bryant retired Alabama drifted into nowhere until Stallings took over.  When he left they drifted until Saban.  Same thing will happen at Clemson and even OU.  Sometimes you follow up a good coach with another good coach and the ball keeps rolling.  The only "machine" I have ever seen is Miami.  They went from Schnellenberger to Jimmy, to Erickson to Butch Davis to Coker.  Those weren't all great coaches but they had a machine getting by far the best talent in the country for about a 20 year period.  Once Miami's administration decided to devalue football the whole deal went in the shitter and has been that way since.   Is Lincoln Riley really that great?  He plays in a shitty conference where the other "big dog", us, sucks right now.  I think Riley is a good coach but he ain't at the level of an all timer like Saban.  We just suck at hiring good coaches.  That is the answer.  Mack showed what this program can be with good recruiting and mediocre coaching.  Imagine what it could be with good recruiting and good coaching to match it.  It would be what we all want.

[dcar00 14035]

The hiring of Steve Patterson and eventually Charlie Strong set us back 10 years.  Herman is the guy that can win you 8-9 games fairly regularly that should be the bare minimum.  He's the guy we thought Charlie was.  We fired Mack Brown because we thought any average coach at Texas should be able to win 8-9 games, given the conference and built in recruiting advantages.  Sadly, we didn't learn from McWilliams and Mackovic that it absolutely can get worse and not anybody can coach Texas to 8-9 wins.

the transfer from Deloss to Patterson was a monumental mistake.  The guy was not a big time college AD.  I am hoping CDC is the guy that can rectify this situation.  If he's not we are in big trouble.

To be clear, rectifying the situation does not mean it only is a success if he hires Urban.  That is the shortest path but not the only one.

I think the Big 12 has some pretty damn good coaches and that hurts Herman because it is obvious he is an average coach.

[David Dennison 18656]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Agree... get the right coach.  Great points on Mack, Saban, Stoops, Spurrier, Dabo.  Add Urban at Ohio State...

Folks keep it simple -- get the right coach that can handle the TEXAS program and we will have a great program again.  

 

Getting the right coach is mainly luck. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Agree... get the right coach.  Great points on Mack, Saban, Stoops, Spurrier, Dabo.  Add Urban at Ohio State...

I'd add more than Urban to Ohio State.  Of all the big name programs Ohio State seems to have hit more home runs with head coaches and had less misses than many of the other big name programs.  Their last six full-time head coaches are all in or will be in the College Football Hall of Fame.  Of course, Day isn't in that category.

[dcar00 14035]

12 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I'd add more than Urban to Ohio State.  Of all the big name programs Ohio State seems to have hit more home runs with head coaches and had less misses than many of the other big name programs.  Their last six full-time head coaches are all in or will be in the College Football Hall of Fame.  Of course, Day isn't in that category.

this is true.  Texas was right there DKR to Akers was like Hayes to Bruce.  OSU hired Cooper and Texas hired McWilliams(complete bust) and then Mackovic(average).  Cooper was above average.  Mack was right there with Tressell IMO but Stoops showed up at OU after their decade in the wilderness after shithead.  OU hit a home run and we hit a triple.  Without Stoops a lot could have changed for Texas.  It also helped that he didn't burn the place down when he left and he didn't change his entire philosophy when he got drilled by USC and then lost to Florida.

A lot of the old guard coaches in traditional powers started to retire kin late 70's due to age but also the advent of scholarship limits in 1973 to 105.

the recruting really started getting dirty when scholarship limits happened.  you had limited so you had to hit on the ones you had.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

It’s just really hard to find a national championship caliber coach. 

how hard is it to find a conference championship caliber coach?

[dcar00 14035]

1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

how hard is it to find a conference championship caliber coach?

apparently...very.  

[alincoln 2364]

32 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

this is true.  Texas was right there DKR to Akers was like Hayes to Bruce.  OSU hired Cooper and Texas hired McWilliams(complete bust) and then Mackovic(average).  Cooper was above average.  Mack was right there with Tressell IMO but Stoops showed up at OU after their decade in the wilderness after shithead.  OU hit a home run and we hit a triple.  Without Stoops a lot could have changed for Texas.  It also helped that he didn't burn the place down when he left and he didn't change his entire philosophy when he got drilled by USC and then lost to Florida.

A lot of the old guard coaches in traditional powers started to retire kin late 70's due to age but also the advent of scholarship limits in 1973 to 105.

the recruting really started getting dirty when scholarship limits happened.  you had limited so you had to hit on the ones you had.

Tressel also emphasized the Michigan game like Mack should have emphasized the OU game.  

[Hermanator 6944]

11 hours ago, Kyle said:

I'm glad you were explicit. I wanted to delve more into ousux, but I figured I'd be banned in 10 minutes given the beta male snowflakes that dominate this breast-feeding wonderland. ousux is a shitty school in a shitty state with 1/2 our cash that's been treating us like a grievance studies major on a football field since a Michigan QB was in the White House. Maybe that's it - life reflects the interwebs - we really are just a bunch of soft pussies. We've been turning out beta males more suited for the garden club than the executive suite since anyone can remember.

You have a weird and hilariously stupid viewpoint

The only people who talk about "beta males" are insanely immature idiots who have no idea how to actually be a man and think it constitutes being a fake aggressive asshole trying to push everyone around

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Hermanator

[dcar00 14035]

5 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Tressel also emphasized the Michigan game like Mack should have emphasized the OU game.  

I think Mack emphasized it, I just think his staff at that time wasn't really up to compete with Stoops staff on the whole.  Sally's cookies come to mind.

[Hermanator 6944]

50 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

how hard is it to find a conference championship caliber coach?

It seems to be easier in places with competent and supportive administrations who don't now down to the whim of fans and chase "splash hires".

I'd imagine it's easier and more efficient to detoxify the room than to keep chasing unicorns that can properly function in toxicity. Remember that when Mack was at his best there were no smart phones and limited social media. Players, coaches, and recruits weren't being targeted with all sorts of information 24 hours a day like they are now. Texas hasn't figured out how to properly operate in the current smartphone and social media environment where it's massive expectations and history have become an anchor around its neck. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Hermanator

[El Hornarino 368]

10 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Tressel also emphasized the Michigan game like Mack should have emphasized the OU game.  

Mack was trying to emulate John Cooper.

[Funk Doctor Spock 11923]

Mack and Tom have shown unless you bleed for the program you won't see time. They don't care how good you are. The difference between Mack and Tom is Mack was a recruiting witch who had Akina for DB's and I believe Giles for D-line. Brewster recruited extremely well on offense for his 3-4 years he was here, which helped the 05 team. Then after that cracks started showing with the o-line, and then it all went downhill after 09. 

[David Dennison 18656]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

how hard is it to find a conference championship caliber coach?

Very. It takes a lot of luck.

[Continental Op 3934]

I think winning is simply not important for a huge portion of our fanbase as long as we have Silent Disco outside the games and Wooderson is our Minister of Culture, etc etc.  Being cool is more important than winning and we're certainly not immune to it here in message board world.  Think about how much dick tugging there was over Godzillatron.  

[ATXbronco 4060]

Nick Saban had a .589 average his first five years coaching.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/nick-saban-1.html

Tom Herman has had a .843 average his first five years coaching.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/tom-herman-2.html

This means nothing other than I hope Herman gets it going someday like Nick did after his first few years as a head coach.

[WBT 20421]

9 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

I think winning is simply not important for a huge portion of our fanbase as long as we have Silent Disco outside the games and Wooderson is our Minister of Culture, etc etc.  Being cool is more important than winning and we're certainly not immune to it here in message board world.  Think about how much dick tugging there was over Godzillatron.  

Maybe for a big part of our fanbase but I don't think this generalization applies to most of the posters here.  And shaggy was done with adzillatron by the 2nd quarter of its first game.

[hookem48 4631]

one offensive lineman drafted in 12 years and he sucks for Dallas and people wonder why we suck

Edited December 9, 2020 by hookem48

[Valmy77 13094]

39 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

I think winning is simply not important for a huge portion of our fanbase as long as we have Silent Disco outside the games and Wooderson is our Minister of Culture, etc etc.  Being cool is more important than winning and we're certainly not immune to it here in message board world.  Think about how much dick tugging there was over Godzillatron.  

Man we have one group telling us we are toxic for demanding wins and wanting failing coaches fired and another saying we are too complacent and don't really care about winning.

My take: None of this fluff matters at all. There is no substitute for a well run football program and we just need to find the right football people to run it. None of our other "advantages" or "toxic culture" or whatever matters unless we have that going on.

[David Dennison 18656]

2 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Man we have one group telling us we are toxic for demanding wins and wanting failing coaches fired and another saying we are too complacent and don't really care about winning.

My take: None of this fluff matters at all. There is no substitute for a well run football program and we just need to find the right football people to run it. None of our other "advantages" or "toxic culture" or whatever matters unless we have that going on.

Yep.

And that is not an easy feat.

[Hermanator 6944]

27 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Man we have one group telling us we are toxic for demanding wins and wanting failing coaches fired and another saying we are too complacent and don't really care about winning.

My take: None of this fluff matters at all. There is no substitute for a well run football program and we just need to find the right football people to run it. None of our other "advantages" or "toxic culture" or whatever matters unless we have that going on.

It's not the fans. It's the administration that is too dysfunctional and toxic to make the necessary changes to formulate a winning environment for coaches to flourish in. When it was just Mack losing it it was on Mack. Then Charlie couldn't do it and now Herman can't do it and neither Charlie nor Herman were hired using any kind of functional coaching evaluation. 

[HtownHorn 14487]

39 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

one offensive lineman drafted in 12 years and he sucks for Dallas and people wonder why we suck

Well when you decide to move a All Big 12 RT to center, because you make no plans to address that position externally for 3 years. You expect this coaching to develop many OL? Granted this problem spans many coaching staffs.

[HtownHorn 14487]

4 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

It's not the fans. It's the administration that is too dysfunctional and toxic to make the necessary changes to formulate a winning environment for coaches to flourish in. When it was just Mack losing it it was on Mack. Then Charlie couldn't do it and now Herman can't do it and neither Charlie nor Herman were hired using any kind of functional coaching evaluation. 

The next coach that gets hired should be told, you can bring 1 assistant with you, the rest will be hired externally and you need to have a plan in place.

[LTtxfan 48972]

1 hour ago, Hermanator said:

It's not the fans. It's the administration that is too dysfunctional and toxic to make the necessary changes to formulate a winning environment for coaches to flourish in. When it was just Mack losing it it was on Mack. Then Charlie couldn't do it and now Herman can't do it and neither Charlie nor Herman were hired using any kind of functional coaching evaluation. 

• Yeah Charlie and Mensa weren't the right hires
• Mack just screwed up TEXAS after Colt got hurt against Bama
• Then Mack sabotaged hiring of Saban

 

[Ultimate Failure 61]

17 hours ago, Kyle said:

Honest question and not trying to melt any snowflakes ... it feels like for the past 40 years football on the 40 Acres has underperformed given its tradition, financial resources, and natural advantages. Legendary program, great city, richest athletic department, finest facilities, and the flagship university in the nation's most football crazy state. Does't it feel like we should be in contention for a national championship every year? Take ousux ... yeah it does ... but every one of us would swap the past 40-year on-the field performance with those assclowns.

I bang my head against the wall constantly trying to glean why we are not better year in and year out. Is it no cheating? Academic expectations? It is not like we have Jerry Jones running the show.

The answer is right there in your question:  That little word "should".  All of those factors that you mentioned are nice, but they don't entitle you to a top-tier program.  Maybe if we didn't sell the program to prospective coaches and recruits as "hey look at all our advantages -- come here, and you're on easy street", maybe we would be getting a different kind of coaches/recruits.

[Ultimate Failure 61]

17 hours ago, Orange&White said:

There’s no way that Texas underperforms vs their built in advantages more than the aggies.

im not saying Texas is good. I’m just saying that we’re not #1 in that regard.

By what metric?  Let's be real.  Looking at end-of-year rankings vs. pre-season rankings, Texas is the #1 underperformer, bar none.  Similarly for recruiting rankings vs. NFL draft rankings.

And WTF, faggy is your measuring stick?  GTFO.

[horn4life 3755]

Honest question... when you fart and feel wetness... do you just turn your Aggie ring?

[Orange&White 5516]

28 minutes ago, Ultimate Failure said:

By what metric?  Let's be real.  Looking at end-of-year rankings vs. pre-season rankings, Texas is the #1 underperformer, bar none.  Similarly for recruiting rankings vs. NFL draft rankings.

And WTF, faggy is your measuring stick?  GTFO.

Were you kicked in the fucking head as a child?

[Llewelyn Moss 203]

From Andy Staples’s article on Texas this week at The Athletic:

To understand what great alignment does for a program, look north across the Red River to Oklahoma. From December 1998 to June 2017, that school had one president (David Boren), one athletic director (Joe Castiglione) and one head football coach (Bob Stoops). Boren and Stoops have since retired, but Boren was still in place when Castiglione tapped then-Oklahoma offensive coordinator Lincoln Riley to succeed Stoops. The alignment all the way up the chain has continued unabated. Since Stoops took over, the Sooners have won or shared the Big 12 title 13 times.

Meanwhile, Texas hasn’t been aligned since Brown began to falter in 2010. Athletic director DeLoss Dodds and president Bill Powers were busy pulling strings in conference realignment, and Dodds’ retirement in 2013 brought what might be the single most disastrous hire in Texas athletics history: Steve Patterson, who served a hellish 22-month tenure as athletic director beginning in November 2013. Patterson was supposed to streamline a bloated athletic department but only made it more dysfunctional.

Attorney Mike Perrin stepped in to steady the ship — he wound up firing Strong and hiring Herman — and Del Conte’s charge when he was hired in 2017 was to bring the Texas athletic department into the present. Since 2010, Texas has had three presidents (Powers, Greg Fenves, Jay Hartzell), four ADs (Dodds, Patterson, Perrin, Del Conte) and three head football coaches (Brown, Strong, Herman). That isn’t an environment conducive to alignment, and it should be cause to redirect some of the criticism leveled at Brown, Strong and Herman.

That’s 10 leaders in a decade vs 5 at ousux (2 coaches, 2 presidents, 1 AD)

Edited December 9, 2020 by Llewelyn Moss

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

9 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

This is correct and every other post is not even close.

 

We underperform for sure, but holy shit aggy is wayyyyyyyyyy worse

You can't underperform expectations when nobody has any expectations of you.  There's no "is aggy back?" press because aggy never was.  

[ousux 5587]

it was gold 

Still Maroon under that gold paint

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Man we have one group telling us we are toxic for demanding wins and wanting failing coaches fired and another saying we are too complacent and don't really care about winning.

My take: None of this fluff matters at all. There is no substitute for a well run football program and we just need to find the right football people to run it. None of our other "advantages" or "toxic culture" or whatever matters unless we have that going on.

the problem has always been in bellmont and with access and the money people. i'm not a big cigar, or know anyone who is, and no one has let me into their humidor or porta-potty, but i'm a business analyst who can just see what is in front of my eyes. 

it all flows back to bellmont and the massive vacuum in effective leadership there. dating back as long as i've paid attention, and i started paying attention in 96 when i was a freshman and really started following texas football religiously, it became quickly apparent that our athletic department is largely mercenary and unprofessional. that plonsky is still there after all that's transpired in her tenure is all you really need to know. everything in bellmont is not focused on winning, they are 100% focused on selling. revenue, revenue, revenue is all that drives any decision making, it seems, and that includes that steady longhorn foundation money, which means humoring the whims of the people in the luxury boxes.

our coaching searches are fucking jokes, because our donor alumni have to play their fucking favorites, and this goes back to when royal left. look at the list of tenures since then: akers, mcwilliams, mackovic, mack brown, charlie strong, tom herman. 6 coaches, 4 of whom had tenures of fewer than 5 years. that's a trend, and an annoying one, and it's because our alumni don't let professional football people run this shit. they are successful in their own right, which gives them a terrible sense of jerry jones sized entitlement. just because you made a bunch of money in the oil patch doesn't mean you know how to run a football program. hell, mack only managed to stick around through the early aughts because people came early, got loud, and finally wore orange. staying late was still a problem, but you don't pay on the way out, you pay on the way in. but he made record revenues for the athletic department, and was forgiven that four year stretch of complete embarrassment in the cotton bowl in october. also, and this is key, he kissed rich alumni ass, gave them the access they crave, and he did finally win a championship and played for another. but the amount of talent he squandered during his tenure is long and distinguished. 

our athletic department is coalesced around this idea or revenue and access, purposefully so, because the money wants it that way. even when patterson hired korn ferry to consult, it was a fucking circus of a coaching search, involving mack brown fucking us, rumors of saban coming, but the leaks, oh god, the leaks, and the utter black hole in bellmont. then houston money crowned tom herman the next coming to follow strong, and there wasn't really a formal search process at all. same thig has happened again. i know it's an unpopular opinion, but herbstreit wasn't far off with his cesspool commentary. i think it was oddly personally motivated, and poorly timed commentary, but it's right there in front of our faces, and it happens every time we get rid of a coach, the tug of war in our money base begins, the $9.95ers start the rumor mills, because they do have their sources who have their own twisted motivations. and so once again, we look like a fucking joke to the rest of college football fandom.

 

[Valmy77 13094]

2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

It's not the fans. It's the administration that is too dysfunctional and toxic to make the necessary changes to formulate a winning environment for coaches to flourish in. When it was just Mack losing it it was on Mack. Then Charlie couldn't do it and now Herman can't do it and neither Charlie nor Herman were hired using any kind of functional coaching evaluation. 

Well I cannot argue with that. We need good leadership in the AD to find the coaches we need to win.

[ousux 5587]

This right here.  We cheat just like every other school does except maybe in a few cases where there are "handlers" for some of these kids.  Those of you that think we are not paying players are dead wrong.  We have been doing it since I was back in school in the 80s/90s (pretty sure we did it before that also) and we still do it today.  Many of you have said the obvious answer which is coaching.  Once Saban retires, Alabama may not remain a "machine".  Doesn't work that way.  When Bear Bryant retired Alabama drifted into nowhere until Stallings took over.  When he left they drifted until Saban.  Same thing will happen at Clemson and even OU.  Sometimes you follow up a good coach with another good coach and the ball keeps rolling.  The only "machine" I have ever seen is Miami.  They went from Schnellenberger to Jimmy, to Erickson to Butch Davis to Coker.  Those weren't all great coaches but they had a machine getting by far the best talent in the country for about a 20 year period.  Once Miami's administration decided to devalue football the whole deal went in the shitter and has been that way since.   Is Lincoln Riley really that great?  He plays in a shitty conference where the other "big dog", us, sucks right now.  I think Riley is a good coach but he ain't at the level of an all timer like Saban.  We just suck at hiring good coaches.  That is the answer.  Mack showed what this program can be with good recruiting and mediocre coaching.  Imagine what it could be with good recruiting and good coaching to match it.  It would be what we all want.

So Gene Chizik and the Ogre are fantastic corches eh? I mean they are in the ring club..
Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating going full aggy, but they do mysteriously pull in some recruits they shouldn't, and it seems to be paying off for them in some ways. Do they (or anyone else in the country other than their SEC bros) really care what they're doing to get those recruits? Yes, Bama doesnt have to play that way as much these days, but Saban doesnt get that program where they are today with a bunch of 3 stars and the odd high 4 star here and there. Thats where we are right now...except the 4 stars are giving us the sideeye at the moment.

[Aqua Buddha 14512]

18 hours ago, dcar00 said:

Its us or Michigan IMO.   

Nebraska will probably pass everyone.

Tennessee maybe has a case

Neither Michigan nor Tennessee has much instate talent to speak of.  Georgia is a major underachieving program.  They're never terrible but they're 9-3/10-2 every year but with their advantages, they should be on par with any of the top five programs right now.

[Slacks 6791]

7 hours ago, ousux said:

Eric Dickerson and his Maroon Firebird would like word with you..

Yeah, cheating is a slippery slope. However if your biggest rivals are doing it and the organization overseeing such things have become toothless, complacent..and wealthy by mostly ignoring all but the more blatant and rep ruining cheating, should we continue riding our high horse straight to a shitty mid tier bowl nearly every year?

So... A&M was cheating... how'd that work out?

Our recruiting classes have been good enough to win more than 3 Big XII championships. We have one more conference championship than Baylor and Kansas State (2 each). That has nothing to do with "cheating".

[Funk Doctor Spock 11923]

7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Neither Michigan nor Tennessee has much instate talent to speak of.  Georgia is a major underachieving program.  They're never terrible but they're 9-3/10-2 every year but with their advantages, they should be on par with any of the top five programs right now.

Yep. Georgia is slightly below us only because they actually get 9-11 wins a season on the regular. 

[Bullneck 18987]

16 hours ago, Kyle said:

I'm glad you were explicit. I wanted to delve more into ousux, but I figured I'd be banned in 10 minutes given the beta male snowflakes that dominate this breast-feeding wonderland. ousux is a shitty school in a shitty state with 1/2 our cash that's been treating us like a grievance studies major on a football field since a Michigan QB was in the White House. Maybe that's it - life reflects the interwebs - we really are just a bunch of soft pussies. We've been turning out beta males more suited for the garden club than the executive suite since anyone can remember.

Obviously we're hired too many beta coaches.

[Slacks 6791]

8 minutes ago, ousux said:

6 hours ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

This right here.  We cheat just like every other school does except maybe in a few cases where there are "handlers" for some of these kids.  Those of you that think we are not paying players are dead wrong.  We have been doing it since I was back in school in the 80s/90s (pretty sure we did it before that also) and we still do it today.  Many of you have said the obvious answer which is coaching.  Once Saban retires, Alabama may not remain a "machine".  Doesn't work that way.  When Bear Bryant retired Alabama drifted into nowhere until Stallings took over.  When he left they drifted until Saban.  Same thing will happen at Clemson and even OU.  Sometimes you follow up a good coach with another good coach and the ball keeps rolling.  The only "machine" I have ever seen is Miami.  They went from Schnellenberger to Jimmy, to Erickson to Butch Davis to Coker.  Those weren't all great coaches but they had a machine getting by far the best talent in the country for about a 20 year period.  Once Miami's administration decided to devalue football the whole deal went in the shitter and has been that way since.   Is Lincoln Riley really that great?  He plays in a shitty conference where the other "big dog", us, sucks right now.  I think Riley is a good coach but he ain't at the level of an all timer like Saban.  We just suck at hiring good coaches.  That is the answer.  Mack showed what this program can be with good recruiting and mediocre coaching.  Imagine what it could be with good recruiting and good coaching to match it.  It would be what we all want.

So Gene Chizik and the Ogre are fantastic corches eh? I mean they are in the ring club..

Don't be silly.  Those are one season exceptions... Chizik and Orgeron are NOT good coaches. They both had one good season with #1 draft pick QBs and good OCs.  Their other years sucked.

[ousux 5587]

So... A&M was cheating... how'd that work out?
Our recruiting classes have been good enough to win more than 3 Big XII championships. We have one more conference championship than Baylor and Kansas State (2 each). That has nothing to do with "cheating".

That was back when the NCAA still thought they were the bastions of keeping amateur sports pure. aggy is doing far more now than they did back then, *crickets* from the NCAA.

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