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Starship - Test Flight ( 4:45pm CST)

Neonmoon

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6683

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4 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Anybody know the technical side of how todays RUD actually happens? Assuming they decide somewhere there is an issue, blow it up... what then happens?  I just thinking there is a team dedicated to that system and obviously want it to work when needed but certainly not otherwise.

 

4 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So is there somebody in mission control just sitting whose sole job is to push a button to blow the whole thing up when things go wrong? I assume it's automated, but they have to have a human backup.

In the old days it was manual and you used a radio signal to trigger detonation. Today it's automated, it's tied in with the navigation. It has an expected course and if it deviates too far from that and/or other conditions are met, it blows.

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Brian Fantana

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Just now, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

the idiot dork nerd crowd thought the blowup was part of the show.  lulz. 

Also, it's not a good look when most of the mission control is wearing Metallica/Rush t shirts. 

That's not why they were cheering. The people in the building all 100% knew that was going to happen after it started tumbling.

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Upgrayedd

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3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

In the old days it was manual and you used a radio signal to trigger detonation. Today it's automated, it's tied in with the navigation. It has an expected course and if it deviates too far from that and/or other conditions are met, it blows.

Heh.  My great uncle worked on the Atlas program and this was one of his jobs.  Claimed to hold the world record for rockets destroyed.

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4975

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20 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

In the old days it was manual and you used a radio signal to trigger detonation. Today it's automated, it's tied in with the navigation. It has an expected course and if it deviates too far from that and/or other conditions are met, it blows.

Is there no human backup in case the automated system malfunctions?

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52487

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So was the detonation always going to be the final act of this test?  Or did they have a plan for recovery in the unlikely event that everything went well?  Could either vehicle have had a controlled touch down?

 

oh, and the shot from below of the engines looking like a LED cluster flashlight is the money shot here. 

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Texas Jeff

Texas Jeff 1945

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3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So was the detonation always going to be the final act of this test?  Or did they have a plan for recovery in the unlikely event that everything went well?  Could either vehicle have had a controlled touch down?

The plan was for the first stage to have a "hard landing" in the ocean, probably in the Gulf of Mexico, and for the second stage to go mostly around the Earth and come down near Hawaii, also in the ocean.

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1978horn

1978horn 892

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Just now, Texas Jeff said:

The plan was for the first stage to have a "hard landing" in the ocean, probably in the Gulf of Mexico, and for the second stage to go mostly around the Earth and come down near Hawaii.

While that was the official plan, in reality I don't think they thought it was going to make it that far.  They still have never had all raptor engines work at the same time. 

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MonkeyDoughnut

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29 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

In the old days it was manual and you used a radio signal to trigger detonation. Today it's automated, it's tied in with the navigation. It has an expected course and if it deviates too far from that and/or other conditions are met, it blows.

yeah, but I'm really curious how the explosion is actually done. We talking actual explosives, just opening door vent for gas. Really curious on the mechanics of blowing a rocket up that big without having a bigger risk of accidental triggering.

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Brian Fantana

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31 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

yeah, but I'm really curious how the explosion is actually done. We talking actual explosives, just opening door vent for gas. Really curious on the mechanics of blowing a rocket up that big without having a bigger risk of accidental triggering.

Explosive charges on the seams where the tanks meet. Fuel and oxidizer does the rest.

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Captainant

Captainant 27641

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Yeah we're gonna see a few more Starships RUD - at least! This is a new rocket design using a new engine that employs a new(ish) full flow staged combustion cycle. 

And they've already got like three more ships and boosters in the build/validation pipeline to get more flight data with. And each flight, they're tweaking their production lines to incorporate the insights from their flight data.

It's honestly a pretty incredible translation of software design practices into literal rocket science. They're iterating so fucking fast and rarely regressing, it's an impressive engineering feat in itself

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Newdoc

Newdoc 3439

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The starship really was just meant to launch. The kaboom happened later than I thought it would. Dorks are dorks but they are doing some pretty cool stuff. Makes my day to day look mundane. The responses on here and on the Elon Musk thread fall pretty much on whatever CR spectrum you fall and your new hatred of all things Musk. 

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Sgt Hulk

Sgt Hulk 13713

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Lots of good data today. 28 engines is impressive.  Rapid disassembly feature works as advertised.  By all accounts great success would have loved to see separation. But space is hard. The Vulcan from ULA is still figuring out it’s anomaly and is way behind development. 

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Rip76

Rip76 4925

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3 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

the idiot dork nerd crowd thought the blowup was part of the show.  lulz. 

Also, it's not a good look when most of the mission control is wearing Metallica/Rush t shirts. 

Rush shirts are fine.  Hell I mean….

 

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UnivTex34

UnivTex34 1763

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Tim Dodd commented on one of the streams I was watching that this was sand. He got rained upon about 5 miles away.

 

My guess is they may not get another test this year. Sounds like a complete rebuild/redesign of the pad is needed, and I'm seeing some reports that the tank farm is pretty heavily damaged.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5541

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19 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Tim Dodd commented on one of the streams I was watching that this was sand. He got rained upon about 5 miles away.

 

My guess is they may not get another test this year. Sounds like a complete rebuild/redesign of the pad is needed, and I'm seeing some reports that the tank farm is pretty heavily damaged.

Yeah, as I was watching the launch I wondered about them being so close; and even moreso once the exhaust cloud enclosed them - the NASCAR fan in me was hoping to see a big explosion from those tanks. Alas, I too had wait for the unscheduled rapid disasembly feature to be activated. 

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1646

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24 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Tim Dodd commented on one of the streams I was watching that this was sand. He got rained upon about 5 miles away.

 

My guess is they may not get another test this year. Sounds like a complete rebuild/redesign of the pad is needed, and I'm seeing some reports that the tank farm is pretty heavily damaged.

They knew they built a new type of launch platform with no flame trench and a different kind of water suppression system, so its very likely that they expected some (or even all) of the damage and already have multiple plans to evolve it depending on what worked and what didn't.   I'd bet we see another attempt this year. 

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UnivTex34

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3 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

They knew they built a new type of launch platform with no flame trench and a different kind of water suppression system, so its very likely that they expected some (or even all) of the damage and already have multiple plans to evolve it depending on what worked and what didn't.   I'd bet we see another attempt this year. 

I hope you are right. Hopefully the tank farm damage isn't too bad.

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UnivTex34

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5 minutes ago, royiv said:

What is Starship designed to carry? How are those things currently put into orbit?

Think space station segments, or very large satellites. (Not to mention, this is how we return to the moon and get to Mars). Falcon Heavy is the current active other Heavy lift capability, but this allows for much more tonnage in a single load, thereby reducing number of launches necessary. Falcon Heavy is ~double the lift capacity of the Shuttle if memory serves.

 

image.thumb.png.094766fe780a068de1244ad7ad9f62a8.png

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royiv

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4 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Think space station segments, or very large satellites. (Not to mention, this is how we return to the moon and get to Mars). Falcon Heavy is the current active other Heavy lift capability, but this allows for much more tonnage in a single load, thereby reducing number of launches necessary. Falcon Heavy is ~double the lift capacity of the Shuttle if memory serves.

 

image.thumb.png.094766fe780a068de1244ad7ad9f62a8.png

 

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It can be used for just about any current space application and is ultimately designed to be interplanetary. Moon bases, Mars missions, etc.

 

Thanks. I don't follow space stuff super closely, but I do think this thing is pretty damn amazing. One more dumb question, I've seen that Starship can be refueled in orbit. How does one go about refueling a spacecraft while in space?

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Hermanator

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1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'm sure it's nothing.
 

 

Texas legislature is going to allow Space X to junk up SPI which I had very fond memories of going to growing up. That is a populated area not suitable for rocket launches. There are less populated areas that should have been used instead. 

But since it's about 89 percent Latinos down there no care was given. This is terrible

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UnivTex34

UnivTex34 1763

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4 minutes ago, royiv said:

 

Thanks. I don't follow space stuff super closely, but I do think this thing is pretty damn amazing. One more dumb question, I've seen that Starship can be refueled in orbit. How does one go about refueling a spacecraft while in space?

You mean to tell me you have never watched Armageddon?

 

That tank farm next to the pad, you strap it to a starship and put it in orbit. Likely will require the building of a refueling station. Whether that is attached to ISS or standalone I have yet to see.

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UnivTex34

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4 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Texas legislature is going to allow Space X to junk up SPI which I had very fond memories of going to growing up. That is a populated area not suitable for rocket launches. There are less populated areas that should have been used instead. 

But since it's about 89 percent Latinos down there no care was given. This is terrible

I actually would not be surprised if when the Starship program goes live, they move launches to the Cape. Several years ago Starbase was described as a lab by SX for development. 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52487

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16 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Think space station segments, or very large satellites. (Not to mention, this is how we return to the moon and get to Mars). Falcon Heavy is the current active other Heavy lift capability, but this allows for much more tonnage in a single load, thereby reducing number of launches necessary. Falcon Heavy is ~double the lift capacity of the Shuttle if memory serves.

 

image.thumb.png.094766fe780a068de1244ad7ad9f62a8.png

On phone, small pic. Are the relative sizes of those rockets to scale?  Saturn V is unbelievably massive and this thing is even larger in the pic. 

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1978horn

1978horn 892

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Just now, UnivTex34 said:

I actually would not be surprised if when the Starship program goes live, they move launches to the Cape. Several years ago Starbase was described as a lab by SX for development. 

They have already started building the infrastructure in Florida.

 

 

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UnivTex34

UnivTex34 1763

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3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

On phone, small pic. Are the relative sizes of those rockets to scale?  Saturn V is unbelievably massive and this thing is even larger in the pic. 

This is the largest in size, as well as thrust, and lift capability. This motherfucker is BIG. And yes, Starship is larger than Saturn V. There is no exaggeration when someone says this is the biggest rocket ever made by man. In every category.

2 minutes ago, 1978horn said:

They have already started building the infrastructure in Florida.

 

 

boom, there you go. Thought I had seen that.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89630

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2 hours ago, UnivTex34 said:

Man I was really hoping things might line up for test number 2 sometime in June while we are there, but based on this, my guess is its gonna take some time to repair.

42 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

They knew they built a new type of launch platform with no flame trench and a different kind of water suppression system, so its very likely that they expected some (or even all) of the damage and already have multiple plans to evolve it depending on what worked and what didn't.   I'd bet we see another attempt this year. 

It was Musk's biggest fear from what he said last week:

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-starship-launch-elon-musk-explode-launch-pad-biggest-concern-2023-4

Quote

His biggest concern was that a "fireball" incident could melt the launchpad if one of the engines failed. Musk said such an incident would melt the steel and destroy the area where the rocket took off. He said this would be a "very bad day."

Musk said it would take SpaceX several months to rebuild the launchpad if Starship exploded and melted it.

Quote

Any other problem that doesn't damage the launchpad post-launch is considered a win, he added.

"I'd like to set expectations low," he said. "If we get far enough away from the launchpad before something goes wrong, I think I would consider that a success. Just don't blow up the launchpad."

 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

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RE: the debris videos, damage to the pad and whatnot.  I watched the launch live, and in the countdown, I couldn't help but notice everything around the pad; very laissez faire attitude to the launch, considering the size of the rocket and the potential damage it could do even if it lifted off successfully (as we have seen).

Compare that to a NASA launch, and there isn't anything close to the pad not tied down or removed completely.

 

 

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