China Sucks

[Horn80 6119]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

In this case more like a totalitarian gov't mafioso syndicate that keeps its citizens under their thumb, and doesn't allow economic prosperity, free speech, or dissention unless pre ordained by the powers that be.  

Kinda hard to assign blame anywhere else.....

Agree and that was the point of my comment but some others would rather point the finger elsewhere because it fits into their political agenda.

[berlinerbaer 678]

So this is the new thread of refuge for the Trumpkins? How ironic that China's newfound aggression is because they know the US is crippled by the incompetence of their orange idol.

Fine. Get mad. It won't make a shit until someone who knows what they're doing starts driving this bus.

[Enchubben 5510]

27 minutes ago, berlinerbaer said:

So this is the new thread of refuge for the Trumpkins? How ironic that China's newfound aggression is because they know the US is crippled by the incompetence of their orange idol.

Yes Donald trump caused the Chinese Coronavirus. Nailed it.

28 minutes ago, berlinerbaer said:

 It won't make a shit until someone who knows what they're doing starts driving this bus.

Based on what I’ve seen of all candidates for the next presidential election we are at a minimum almost 5 years away from that.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

Fuck China 

[workswithseed 2103]

 

[ChickenSandwich 9834]

“Those jobs are never coming back”

Fuck you for that. 
 

And China lied. People died. 

 

[BNB 100]

 

[berlinerbaer 678]

The in-laws report that after a month or so of state sponsored propaganda, it's widespread for Chinese to think that the virus originated in the US. The differences are whether or not one believes it was a US military job or not.

[Sejjr 3246]

And the Wet Markets have apparently reopened in China now. Great idea, you fucking shitheads. SARS and now COVID. Not to mention the fact that they eat dogs.... 

FUCK CHINA. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Two videos from a couple of guys who have spent at least ten years in China. They both speak the language, have businesses, and married chinese women.

This one is the best overall backgrounder on how China has changed. It's pretty sad and horrible.

 

 

[YChang 3443]

The Chinese government fucking sucks — but man... whenever I see this thread it makes me feel all sorts of uncomfortable.

Edited April 2, 2020 by YChang

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

When did the US have to rely on any other country to protect ourselves? Why is our response to this crisis predicated on China helping us in some way? The Surly cabal knew more about this virus than Trump did which shows willful ignorance in our leadership. China has a part to play, but they arent the one deciding to call this a hoax, or delaying calling for private sector to manufacture critical tools to combat this. 

 

Quit with the obfuscation

[workswithseed 2103]

2 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

When did the US have to rely on any other country to protect ourselves? Why is our response to this crisis predicated on China helping us in some way? The Surly cabal knew more about this virus than Trump did which shows willful ignorance in our leadership. China has a part to play, but they arent the one deciding to call this a hoax, or delaying calling for private sector to manufacture critical tools to combat this. 

 

Quit with the obfuscation

Both can be true. This is the fuck China thread, and it been pretty much that. People have discussed that Trump did a Terrible job. Some say only from the beginning some say still, but non the less his actions have been pretty condemned. We all know that China has been fucking shitty a lot longer than this virus, and until thier shitty government leaves for good, this'll continue to be the Fuck China thread.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Both can be true. This is the fuck China thread, and it been pretty much that. People have discussed that Trump did a Terrible job. Some say only from the beginning some say still, but non the less his actions have been pretty condemned. We all know that China has been fucking shitty a lot longer than this virus, and until thier shitty government leaves for good, this'll continue to be the Fuck China thread.

Fair in some aspects. But there is a concerted effort to deflect responsibility of our response to others. 

[TwiceHorn 31457]

Of course there is, it's Trump, he takes no responsibility.

But, as works notes, this thread long predates CV-19 and remains fundamentally true.

[UDontKnow 10444]

1 hour ago, YChang said:

The Chinese government fucking sucks — but man... whenever I see this thread it makes me feel all sorts of uncomfortable.

This thread shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable. It should make you feel ragey that our own national greed has made us strange bedfellows with the largest communist nation in the world. Just to make a buck, America threw away its standards. This started with Nixon and Kissinger and has only gotten worse in the last 25 years since manufacturing has shifted to China. Someone else on Surly must know this, but the amount of American debt to China is something to be worried about.

[workswithseed 2103]

14 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Fair in some aspects. But there is a concerted effort to deflect responsibility of our response to others. 

I think people agree that our response was very poor, I know I have very much said as much. 

[YChang 3443]

1 hour ago, UDontKnow said:

This thread shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable. It should make you feel ragey that our own national greed has made us strange bedfellows with the largest communist nation in the world. Just to make a buck, America threw away its standards. This started with Nixon and Kissinger and has only gotten worse in the last 25 years since manufacturing has shifted to China. Someone else on Surly must know this, but the amount of American debt to China is something to be worried about.

I don’t disagree. And it’s hard to explain... but through the lens of a Chinese American... yeah, it’s weird. Partly because these believes tends to/could easily permeate into society... and there’s already an unconscious bias for some to see “us” as outsiders. Recent events sure as heck doesn’t help. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by YChang

[workswithseed 2103]

4 minutes ago, YChang said:

I don’t disagree. And it’s hard to explain... but through the lens of a Chinese American... yeah, it’s weird. Partly because these believes tends to/could easily permeate into society... and there’s already an unconscious bias for some to see “us” as outsiders. Recent events sure as heck doesn’t help. 

Actually it's kinda a wonder how the Japanese came out from the shit they had to ordeal in the 40s. 

I hope people will understand that it's the government that need to go and not the Chinese people themselves, or other Asians. 

[StruggleBus 3922]

NM

Edited April 2, 2020 by StruggleBus

[Sejjr 3246]

2 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Fair in some aspects. But there is a concerted effort to deflect responsibility of our response to others. 

The virus originated in the wet markets of Wuhan. The WHO was telling people in mid-January that the according to Chinese medical professionals, the virus could not be spread human-to-human. This was tweeted on their fucking twitter page to the world. Taiwan tried to tell them that this was bullshit, but they were dismissed. Early whistle blowers were silenced or vanished. Chinese people continued to travel around the world. The fucking models that we used to create our strategic response were largely based on Chinese statistics. These are just of few of the crucial facts about the culpability of China and why it matters. 

I get it that you don't like Trump and that his bravado and early comments were stupid, no doubt. And yes, the US should have been more prepared on our own, starting with the fact that our supply chain is linked with China for so much of our crucial needs. This is not an attempt to pass blame from our own shortcomings. This is the reality that China absolutely made this problem infinitely worse and now the Global Economy is irreparably crippled.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of small-minded people in this country who will harass and blame individual Asian-Americans, and that is a shitty aspect of the human condition. But I am able to separate a totalitarian regime with a terrible record of human rights abuses on their own people from the people themselves. Well, except for the ones that eat bats and house pets. 

[UDontKnow 10444]

53 minutes ago, YChang said:

I don’t disagree. And it’s hard to explain... but through the lens of a Chinese American... yeah, it’s weird. Partly because these believes tends to/could easily permeate into society... and there’s already an unconscious bias for some to see “us” as outsiders. Recent events sure as heck doesn’t help. 

This phenomenon has always been there, it just peaks and wanes. As a non-Muslim Indian-American, things have never been the same for me since 9/11. Hell, my father faced racism after he immigrated to the States because of the 1979 Iran hostage crisis (and he is Indian). My family isn't Sikh either, it's just brown skin. We've been told to go back to where we came from by white, black, Hispanic, and even eastern Asian folks. I've come to the conclusion, all of us are racist. As time goes on, everyone takes their turn being a victim of prejudice.  

For something more specific involving actual racial violence, see the story of the "Dotbusters" gang. It's one of the main reasons my parents did not relocate to New Jersey in the late 80s. Thank God, otherwise I wouldn't be a Texan and that would suck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dotbusters

[burntorangebongos 10710]

Dumb question amnesty but why doesn't China separate their meat markets to have domestic meat and exotic meat? Why are they butchering them in the same place? They ought to butcher the exotic meats at their farms and then sell them in a separate market. They really ought to stop farming and consuming exotics but at least separating them out seems like a good plan. This is the third serious virus that was started from this practice. They should have figured it out already, in my opinion.  That seems too simplistic so what am I missing to this? 

[YChang 3443]

1 minute ago, burntorangebongos said:

Dumb question amnesty but why doesn't China separate their meat markets to have domestic meat and exotic meat? Why are they butchering them in the same place? They ought to butcher the exotic meats at their farms and then sell them in a separate market. They really ought to stop farming and consuming exotics but at least separating them out seems like a good plan. This is the third serious virus that was started from this practice. They should have figured it out already, in my opinion.  That seems too simplistic so what am I missing to this? 

Corruption and greed I imagine. 

[burntorangebongos 10710]

But this is the 3rd time and it cost so many of their peoples lives and has hurt their economy and goodwill from other countries. The rich are eating the exotics, as I understand, not the whole populace. So have them in exclusive shops already. I really don't understand why they shot themselves in the foot like this. I'm confused as to what they gain by not remedying this situation.

[Rougarou 594]

If wet markets re-open, we should wage war on them, multi-laterally. Jews China and their disgusting wet markets did this and they keep doing this crap. It would be one thing if their disgusting cultural practices were confined to themselves, but we have to pay for their barbarianism. 

I said it before it happened and now that it has happened, China needs to be punished. This is unforgivable that they continue to cause epidemic and pandemic so that the 1% can get a placebo-induced hard-on by eating monkey brains and tiger testicles. Wet markets are inexcusable and China absolutely should be called to the carpet for their role and origination of disease, death, and global recession.

If China is such a superpower that we can't really step up to them for fear of a world war or a collapse in our economy than that is pathetic and a very sad state of affairs and should be heart-breaking to us all. But if that is the case, we should be honest and acknowledge that and realize we have royally screwed up. Then we should work the back channels and margins to cripple China until we are strong enough and have mitigation in place to face them down. 

It's really angering. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Fair in some aspects. But there is a concerted effort to deflect responsibility of our response to others. 

By who, and to who?  The country responsible for this is China, and if you believe one of the latest You tube videos, it came from a medical research lab in gasp .... Wuhan.  

Trump could have acted sooner, of course. How many other western states acted quicker, what democrats advocated quarantines, stopping flights ?  When Trump suggested stopping flights from China, I believe he was called racist, and xenophobic. (Italy is in the position they are precisely because of an influx of Chinese nationals in Dec. (Oh yeah the PRC was saying that this wasn't communicable about that same time, and in Jan. The WHO parroted that exact line ). 

If you believe the reports, the mayor of New Orleans is blaming Trump for not stopping Mardi Gras.  I'd guess that should really should have been her administrations responsibility ??  

I doubt most admins would have done much that differently. To have had a chance to head this off, a shut down of International air travel would have needed to be implemented in Dec.  The cat was already out of the bag at that point.  

 

[burntorangebongos 10710]

If we had been on a multi-lateral path to handling and dealing with China then there most likely could be pressure placed on them that would be impossible and uncomfortable for them to ignore. But we are dealing with them unilaterally and are no longer the major voice to our allies. Maybe because China owns us but also because of stupid decisions we have made to diminish our standing. 

I hope we band with other nations to call out this practice and condemn them for it with normal diplomatic tools that are used to stop practices that affect their population and the world. I'm not sure that the present administration is organizing or trying to do that with their present rhetoric because it seems that it is being used as a way to distract from their present horrid handling and bungling of our Covid-19 response. If we do go with a diplomatic approach with all other countries of the world, then that would be an approach that I would be pleased to see. A punitive approach isn't something I'm sure about since I don't know all the ins and outs and what have yous to this dilemma. Everyone imposing sanctions would certainly get their attention. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, burntorangebongos said:

If we had been on a multi-lateral path to handling and dealing with China then there most likely could be pressure placed on them that would be impossible and uncomfortable for them to ignore. But we are dealing with them unilaterally and are no longer the major voice to our allies. Maybe because China owns us but also because of stupid decisions we have made to diminish our standing. 

I hope we band with other nations to call out this practice and condemn them for it with normal diplomatic tools that are used to stop practices that affect their population and the world. I'm not sure that the present administration is organizing or trying to do that with their present rhetoric because it seems that it is being used as a way to distract from their present horrid handling and bungling of our Covid-19 response. If we do go with a diplomatic approach with all other countries of the world, then that would be an approach that I would be pleased to see. A punitive approach isn't something I'm sure about since I don't know all the ins and outs and what have yous to this dilemma. Everyone imposing sanctions would certainly get their attention. 

China would have denied this regardless of who was sitting in the WH. 

[UDontKnow 10444]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

China would have denied this regardless of who was sitting in the WH. 

And regardless of who is sitting in the WH, swift action should be taken against China.

Our idiot-in-chief still botched absolutely everything regarding this pandemic regardless of what China did.

[burntorangebongos 10710]

Sure, but I am speaking more to the response needing to be multi-lateral and having an administration with diplomatic responses and tools to create that change now. It isn't something that I see us being capable of, unfortunately. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

And regardless of who is sitting in the WH, swift action should be taken against China.

Our idiot-in-chief still botched absolutely everything regarding this pandemic regardless of what China did.

What swift action do we take ?  I;m for it, but short of pulling every company pout of China, what do we do ?

So in Dec. or Jan. 1 he should have issued a halt of international travel, and stay in place sheltering ?  That is the only way this could have been stopped in it's tracks MAYBE.

[UDontKnow 10444]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

What swift action do we take ?  I;m for it, but short of pulling every company pout of China, what do we do ?

So in Dec. or Jan. 1 he should have issued a halt of international travel, and stay in place sheltering ?  That is the only way this could have been stopped in it's tracks MAYBE.

Edited April 2, 2020 by UDontKnow

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Well none of those things was or is going to happen regardless of who was or is in the WH.

[UDontKnow 10444]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well none of those things was or is going to happen regardless of who was or is in the WH.

Considering Obama expanded CDC resources with a pandemic team and had a field epidemiologist embedded in Beijing prior to Trump dismantling it under the guise of "draining the swamp", I think he might have been Onboard 2.0 with an international travel ban during the time frame you previously suggested. Recall his term started off with H1N1 outbreak, so this would be the second time he had to address a global pandemic.

Edited April 2, 2020 by UDontKnow

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

33 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Considering Obama expanded CDC resources with a pandemic team and had a field epidemiologist embedded in Beijing prior to Trump dismantling it under the guise of "draining the swamp", I think he might have been Onboard 2.0 with an international travel ban during the time frame you previously suggested. Recall his term started off with H1N1 outbreak, so this would be the second time he had to address a global pandemic.

True there could/should have been a quicker response (everywhere). I've never said otherwise. Mr. Obamas having been thru H1N1 probably would have prompted a quicker response.  Had he not, who knows what he would have done, and more importantly when. 

[Sejjr 3246]

1 hour ago, UDontKnow said:

Considering Obama expanded CDC resources with a pandemic team and had a field epidemiologist embedded in Beijing prior to Trump dismantling it under the guise of "draining the swamp", I think he might have been Onboard 2.0 with an international travel ban during the time frame you previously suggested. Recall his term started off with H1N1 outbreak, so this would be the second time he had to address a global pandemic.

This issue is far more complicated than simply saying that Trump dismantled Obama's infrastructure. And the Obama administration did not even announce the H1N1 pandemic as a National Emergency until 6 months after the first cases started in the US. And that pandemic infected 60 million people in the US and killed 12,000. Now maybe Obama would have leaned on his delayed response to that pandemic to act more aggressively, or, maybe he would have seen that the country survived without a complete economic shutdown. Who knows?

I have seen quite a few comments that US Intelligence knew the extent of the Chinese pandemic, and they warned the administration who then allegedly sat on their hands I guess? This is not verifiable. What we do know is that China in recent years brutally cracked down on our spy network, and they killed over 30 CIA assets embedded in their country. Spying on China is apparently not that simple.

 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-found-cia-spies-leak-2018-8

The real mistake that was made was ever assuming that the WHO was a reliable source about this threat, and trusting the information coming from China in the first place during the early stages. Many weeks were lost, while travel was allowed and the virus was at that point impossible to stop at its source. 

[UDontKnow 10444]

8 minutes ago, Sejjr said:

This issue is far more complicated than simply saying that Trump dismantled Obama's infrastructure. And the Obama administration did not even announce the H1N1 pandemic as a National Emergency until 6 months after the first cases started in the US. And that pandemic infected 60 million people in the US and killed 12,000. Now maybe Obama would have leaned on his delayed response to that pandemic to act more aggressively, or, maybe he would have seen that the country survived without a complete economic shutdown. Who knows?

I have seen quite a few comments that US Intelligence knew the extent of the Chinese pandemic, and they warned the administration who then allegedly sat on their hands I guess? This is not verifiable. What we do know is that China in recent years brutally cracked down on our spy network, and they killed over 30 CIA assets embedded in their country. Spying on China is apparently not that simple.

 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-found-cia-spies-leak-2018-8

The real mistake that was made was ever assuming that the WHO was a reliable source about this threat, and trusting the information coming from China in the first place during the early stages. Many weeks were lost, while travel was allowed and the virus was at that point impossible to stop at its source. 

All valid points, but you have to believe that having a CDC field epidemiologist embedded in China with their health ministry would have been most helpful. You know that position Trump eliminated funding for around August of last year.

[F250 28770]

3 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Dumb question amnesty but why doesn't China separate their meat markets to have domestic meat and exotic meat? Why are they butchering them in the same place? They ought to butcher the exotic meats at their farms and then sell them in a separate market. They really ought to stop farming and consuming exotics but at least separating them out seems like a good plan. This is the third serious virus that was started from this practice. They should have figured it out already, in my opinion.  That seems too simplistic so what am I missing to this? 

[Sejjr 3246]

26 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

All valid points, but you have to believe that having a CDC field epidemiologist embedded in China with their health ministry would have been most helpful. You know that position Trump eliminated funding for around August of last year.

I genuinely have no idea about removing China embedded CDC personnel, but the claims that the CDC was underfunded are apparently unfounded. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

 

[UDontKnow 10444]

4 minutes ago, Sejjr said:

I genuinely have no idea about removing China embedded CDC personnel, but the claims that the CDC was underfunded are apparently unfounded. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

 

The Trump administration cut a CDC position in China meant to detect disease outbreaks months before the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cdc-cut-health-expert-job-china-months-before-coronavirus-2020-3

[Sejjr 3246]

54 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

The Trump administration cut a CDC position in China meant to detect disease outbreaks months before the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cdc-cut-health-expert-job-china-months-before-coronavirus-2020-3

This is accurate, and perhaps it did have an impact. That said, the CDC did still have a presence there and the bigger issue, according to them, was the Chinese art of controlling the narrative and silencing whistle-blowers.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-slashed-cdc-staff-inside-china-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5

[staboner 4969]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

China would have denied this regardless of who was sitting in the WH. 

stop being contrarian for the shit of it. we are entering a new world and China needs to take responsibility for this at some level. and getting to that level without a goddamn war breaking out will take a concerted effort, org and leadership. WH is everything that is opposite of that. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

12 minutes ago, staboner said:

stop being contrarian for the shit of it. we are entering a new world and China needs to take responsibility for this at some level. and getting to that level without a goddamn war breaking out will take a concerted effort, org and leadership. WH is everything that is opposite of that. 

How am I being contrarian ?  China has lied about this from the onset of illness. It would not matter if George Washington were sitting in the WH.  If war breaks out (and I find that a long shot at best)  it's gonna be the world vs China, and it'll probably be an economic war.

[WhatTheBuck 28778]

3 hours ago, Sejjr said:

I genuinely have no idea about removing China embedded CDC personnel, but the claims that the CDC was underfunded are apparently unfounded. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

Trump tried to cut their funding but Congress overruled him. 

[staboner 4969]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How am I being contrarian ?  China has lied about this from the onset of illness. It would not matter if George Washington were sitting in the WH.  If war breaks out (and I find that a long shot at best)  it's gonna be the world vs China, and it'll probably be an economic war.

hey look man, all good, I can see your post being whatever. Its a message board with tangents being tossed out in all directions. Many things can come off as whimsically contrarian here and there.

Sure, I get that. I was just not wanting to wash over the aspect of how we are dealing with China and this mess they created. That takes an adult in the WH, and in other places, and we don't have that obviously. 

This is going to be a very dangerous time. A very delicate one that will require strong, forward thinking leadership to avoid conflict. A yes, lets hope its economic and not a shooting war, but I don't know. I definitely fear the later but hey thats my schtick 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, staboner said:

hey look man, all good, I can see your post being whatever. Its a message board with tangents being tossed out in all directions. Many things can come off as whimsically contrarian here and there.

Sure, I get that. I was just not wanting to wash over the aspect of how we are dealing with China and this mess they created. That takes an adult in the WH, and in other places, and we don't have that obviously. 

This is going to be a very dangerous time. A very delicate one that will require strong, forward thinking leadership to avoid conflict. A yes, lets hope its economic and not a shooting war, but I don't know. I definitely fear the later but hey thats my schtick 

All this ^^  and you didn't address what I did that was contrarian.   So what should the US be doing to China right now ?  What good would pointing fingers at them do to stop the viral spread ?  

The time for action on that front will be after this thing has been contained.  Or would you rather we add an additional issue to the already full plate we have at hand ? 

[staboner 4969]

17 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

All this ^^  and you didn't address what I did that was contrarian.   So what should the US be doing to China right now ?  What good would pointing fingers at them do to stop the viral spread ?  

The time for action on that front will be after this thing has been contained.  Or would you rather we add an additional issue to the already full plate we have at hand ? 

sorry to see you wiping your ass with an olive branch. hopefully the store near you has some TP soon

you can keep digging around if you want, take it easy

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

14 minutes ago, staboner said:

sorry to see you wiping your ass with an olive branch. hopefully the store near you has some TP soon

you can keep digging around if you want, take it easy

Go away, women talk in passive aggressive riddles like what you're doing.

[Hanrahan 1306]

And regardless of who is sitting in the WH, swift action should be taken against China.
Our idiot-in-chief still botched absolutely everything regarding this pandemic regardless of what China did.

WTF is wrong with your brain? This is the China hating thread. There are dozens of threads for you to wack off to if Trump hating makes your horny. This thread is for the Chinese government cunts who knew this was going to happen at some point. It did. There are medical papers going back more than a decade saying China’s wet market are going to kill a bunch of people with a novel Coronavirus. People across the world are now dying. Fuck China.