China Sucks

[UDontKnow 10451]

8 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

WTF is wrong with your brain? This is the China hating thread. There are dozens of threads for you to wack off to if Trump hating makes your horny. This thread is for the Chinese government cunts who knew this was going to happen at some point. It did. There are medical papers going back more than a decade saying China’s wet market are going to kill a bunch of people with a novel Coronavirus. People across the world are now dying. Fuck China.

Are you fucking illiterate? Read the second phrase of my post that you quoted and responded to. It writes, "swift action should be taken against China." I am no fan of China. In fact, my father's side of the family fought in a war against China in the 1960s. FOH with your medical papers going back more than a decade. I knew what evil China was towards the world before most Americans did.

One can hate China and hate Trump simultaneously. They're not mutually exclusive, you fuckwit. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by UDontKnow

[Thetexashammer 1062]

China appointed to the UN Human Rights Council. I just don't understand people who think the UN has even a trace of legitimacy. China is a single largest violator of human rights in the world. 

 

[LABEVO 928]

Well, a war help get us out the 1920's depression so what the hell?

 

[YChang 3463]

Well, a war help get us out the 1920's depression so what the hell?
 

No thanks

[GRHorn 105]

Interesting, if true. Kyle follows Chinese politics and markets very closely. Wouldn’t surprise me for him to have good connections. 

[gsoda3 3284]

44 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Interesting, if true. Kyle follows Chinese politics and markets very closely. Wouldn’t surprise me for him to have good connecti

 

no way.  xi has such a tight grip on the party any threat would be snuffed out immediately.  certainly wouldn't make it to kyle bass.

Edited April 11, 2020 by gsoda3

[Parliament 14353]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:55 PM, LABEVO said:

Well, a war help get us out the 1920's depression so what the hell?

 

Do we have 2 carrier groups at any time within striking distance of mainland China?  I don't know.  Regardless, sinking an American aircraft carrier would not "resolve" much of anything.  Much to the contrary.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19171]

Well, a war help get us out the 1920's depression so what the hell?
 

That is from January 2019.

[DigglerontheHoof 21261]

If China and Russia have designed a system that can sink our carriers, we're done as a Super Power, unless we just want to fry the world.  And we have trump as potus...what could possibly go wrong. 

[LABEVO 928]

On 4/12/2020 at 10:28 PM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

On 4/10/2020 at 10:55 AM, LABEVO said:

Well, a war help get us out the 1920's depression so what the hell?
 

That is from January 2019.

I am an idiot...

 

[TwiceHorn 31627]

On 4/5/2020 at 6:42 AM, Thetexashammer said:

China appointed to the UN Human Rights Council. I just don't understand people who think the UN has even a trace of legitimacy. China is a single largest violator of human rights in the world. 

 

A big part of the problem there is that the Trump administration is disengaging/ed from the UN, leaving a power vacuum that China and Russia are more than happy to fill.

To some extent, I am in favor of the US becoming less of the world's policeman and sugar daddy.  However, that has to be done very carefully.  A moron like Trump has never done anything carefully in his life.

Just another example of Trump taking an idea with merit, and, through aggressive stupidity, fucking it all up.

Edited April 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[F250 28830]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Just another example of Trump taking an idea with merit, and, through aggressive stupidity, fucking it all up.

Exactly. The idea has merit but changes need to be made with plans that are years out beyond the term of the person sitting in the White House. It is supposed to be a national strategy.

Think about Mack Brown's offensive indecision on switching to the power run without the right players and then pivoting away then burning through a couple of OC's and recruiting classes. That set the program back for years, Trump's fuckery is like that but on a global scale and it will take more than a few years to undo.

 

[Hefeweizen 5347]

The Freakonomics podcast this week was on China and was really good.  Mainly geopolitics but a good analysis of why they are such a bad actor now.

 

Definitely need to disengage and move essential health and defense production away from there.

[WhatTheBuck 28814]

5 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

The Freakonomics podcast this week was on China and was really good.  Mainly geopolitics but a good analysis of why they are such a bad actor now.

Now? Lulz. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

China is close to forcing detente on the US and her allies. Disengagement policy with Covid-19 means hot spots in the relationship. Disengagement is necessary. Rebuilding supply lines is a priority. South China Sea has been gamed out by the Pentagon for sure. I don't imagine building a supply chain while in a hot war with China provides us with a lot of options. Seed corn is gone. We have a massive workforce on the sidelines, so that does provide resources for building it quickly if the war doesn't boil over.  Wishing for peace. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Hefeweizen 5347]

17 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Now? Lulz. 

Specifically in  reference to COVID.  But they note a big change around 2008-2011 as well.

[WhatTheBuck 28814]

52 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Specifically in  reference to COVID.  But they note a big change around 2008-2011 as well.

You do know why North Korea exists, right? China's been a bad actor for 70 years. To suggest that they aren't who they've been all our lives is to misunderstand history and, consequently, the present. 

[TwiceHorn 31627]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You do know why North Korea exists, right? China's been a bad actor for 70 years. To suggest that they aren't who they've been all our lives is to misunderstand history and, consequently, the present. 

All true, but their "pivot" toward capitalism and increased engagement with the west has increased the ways in which they act badly.

Some mistook it as part of a fall of the bamboo curtain, but it was really part of a scheme to extend the power and vitality of the regime.

[WhatTheBuck 28814]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

All true, but their "pivot" toward capitalism and increased engagement with the west has increased the ways in which they act badly.

Some mistook it as part of a fall of the bamboo curtain, but it was really part of a scheme to extend the power and vitality of the regime.

Maybe we shouldn't have been enabling them all these years. But no, there's too much money to be made by supporting their communist regime in return for cheap labor. They're still communists despite their "capitalist" reforms. They're still a single party authoritarian society where every capitalist enterprise serves at the pleasure of The Party (personally, I think the Republicans are aiming for the same goal). They're evolving in order to stay competitive in the modern world, but their basic authoritarian philosophy hasn't changed. They're still who we've always known they were. 

[BNB 100]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/coronavirus/bombshell-dossier-lays-out-case-against-chinese-bat-virus-program/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60

Quote

KEY DATES IN COVID COVER-UP

November 9, 2015:

Wuhan Institute of Virology publish a study revealing they created a new virus in the lab from SARS-CoV.

December 6, 2019

Five days after a man linked to Wuhan’s seafood market presented pneumonia-like symptoms, his wife contracts it, suggesting human to human transmission.

December 27

China’s health authorities told a novel disease, then affecting some 180 patients, was caused by a new coronavirus.

December 26-30

Evidence of new virus emerges from Wuhan patient data.

December 31

Chinese internet authorities begin censoring terms from social media such as Wuhan Unknown Pneumonia.

January 1, 2020

Eight Wuhan doctors who warned about new virus are detained and condemned.

January 3

China’s top health authority issues a gag order.

January 5

Wuhan Municipal Health Commission stops releasing daily updates on new cases. Continues until January 18.

January 10

PRC official Wang Guangfa says outbreak “under control” and mostly a “mild condition”.

January 12

Professor Zhang Yongzhen’s lab in Shanghai is closed by authorities for “rectification”, one day after it shares genomic sequence data with the world for the first time.

January 14

PRC National Health Commission chief Ma Xiaowei privately warns colleagues the virus is likely to develop into a major public health event.

January 24

Officials in Beijing prevent the Wuhan Institute of Virology from sharing sample isolates with the University of Texas.

February 6

China’s internet watchdog tightens controls on social media platforms.

February 9

Citizen-journalist and local businessman Fang Bin disappears.

April 17

Wuhan belatedly raises its official fatalities by 1290.

 

[TwiceHorn 31627]

On 4/26/2020 at 10:18 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Maybe we shouldn't have been enabling them all these years. But no, there's too much money to be made by supporting their communist regime in return for cheap labor. They're still communists despite their "capitalist" reforms. They're still a single party authoritarian society where every capitalist enterprise serves at the pleasure of The Party (personally, I think the Republicans are aiming for the same goal). They're evolving in order to stay competitive in the modern world, but their basic authoritarian philosophy hasn't changed. They're still who we've always known they were. 

One of the more brilliant things they did to lull the west into believing there might be a relaxation of authoritarianism is create a functioning IP system.

It was a brilliant move to take the world's eye off of their rampant IP theft, which we now know is not only encouraged by their government, but actually sponsored.

In fact, I think this whole illusory flirtation with capitalism is designed not only to bring money in, but IP to increase their competitiveness, both from a commercial and from a militaristic standpoint.

[WhatTheBuck 28814]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One of the more brilliant things they did to lull the west into believing there might be a relaxation of authoritarianism is create a functioning IP system.

It was a brilliant move to take the world's eye off of their rampant IP theft, which we now know is not only encouraged by their government, but actually sponsored.

In fact, I think this whole illusory flirtation with capitalism is designed not only to bring money in, but IP to increase their competitiveness, both from a commercial and from a militaristic standpoint.

Their plan is working brilliantly. If we really cared about IP theft, we'd stop doing business with them. But $$$$. 

[BigHorn'13 3387]

As I said in the covid thread, it'll take an international effort. Something HAS to be done and hopefully this is the breaking point for a lot of countries. 

[WhatTheBuck 28814]

21 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

As I said in the covid thread, it'll take an international effort. Something HAS to be done and hopefully this is the breaking point for a lot of countries. 

Victory begins at home.

Vote Biden 2020. 

Are you with me?

[Guest Lobo]

I don't want to be overly-simplistic nor an ignorant rube indicative of the typical Trump voter base.  But it doesn't hurt to periodically bring up that were it for the United States defeat of Imperial Japan...China would be in a completely different place right now.  It would make what we did for Europe/Russia/North Africa look absolutely impotent by comparison.  

"The Men Behind the Sun", Unit 731, the Great Leap Forward.  These would be ways of life, or lack of life as it were, for China right now instead of where they are.  Nobody likes to hear the Ugly Americans tell the French "You'd be speaking German if it weren't for us", but seriously China would be a giant graveyard, stripped of all natural resources, with mutated zombies working its fields were it not for our 80 years of aid.  People forget that when they whine about what China owes us.  

Having said that the only government capable of more deception, misdirection, and intrepid incompetence is ours.  

[BigHorn'13 3387]

28 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Victory begins at home.

Vote Biden 2020. 

Are you with me?

Unfortunately, I won't vote crip or blood. Now please belittle me for electing trump by not voting for Biden... just kidding, please don't. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

26 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I don't want to be overly-simplistic nor an ignorant rube indicative of the typical Trump voter base.  But it doesn't hurt to periodically bring up that were it for the United States defeat of Imperial Japan...China would be in a completely different place right now.  It would make what we did for Europe/Russia/North Africa look absolutely impotent by comparison.  

"The Men Behind the Sun", Unit 731, the Great Leap Forward.  These would be ways of life, or lack of life as it were, for China right now instead of where they are.  Nobody likes to hear the Ugly Americans tell the French "You'd be speaking German if it weren't for us", but seriously China would be a giant graveyard, stripped of all natural resources, with mutated zombies working its fields were it not for our 80 years of aid.  People forget that when they whine about what China owes us.  

Having said that the only government capable of more deception, misdirection, and intrepid incompetence is ours.  

A sophisticated point, Lobo. Thanks.

Good article on the subject of China as an ally in WWII.

https://psmag.com/news/china-lost-14-million-people-world-war-ii-forgotten-66482

 

[woohorn 1131]

All the talk about sanctions, reparations, debt cancellation got me thinking about USSR and Chernobyl. Those radiation clouds really fucked northern Europe and I am sure were responsible for deaths (lt cancers) outside of the soviet Union.

Anyone remember international penalties there?

Outside of DuPont/Bhopal or reparations against Germany on WW1, are there any better examples of international punishments for external consequences of a nations deliberately misleading info?

[tx 3 putt 77619]

28 minutes ago, woohorn said:

DuPont/Bhopal

Union Carbide 

[WhatTheBuck 28814]

4 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Unfortunately, I won't vote crip or blood. Now please belittle me for electing trump by not voting for Biden... just kidding, please don't. 

Another Gary Johnson voter coincidentally pushing Trump campaign talking points. I thought I smelled a rat. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

3 hours ago, woohorn said:

All the talk about sanctions, reparations, debt cancellation got me thinking about USSR and Chernobyl. Those radiation clouds really fucked northern Europe and I am sure were responsible for deaths (lt cancers) outside of the soviet Union.

Anyone remember international penalties there?
 

Nothing significant in terms of sanctions. The USSR was collapsing and the West wanted to continue that trajectory. The Soviet's man in Chernobyl - Legasov - spoke to the International Atomic Energy Agency for hours, which may have also staved off significant sanctions against the USSR. They certainly tried to delay letting the world know they had an explosion that exposed the core, but there was confusion as that was considered impossible with the design of the reactor. But we in the west had radioactivity monitors all around the USSR, which made it difficult to cover-up. All in all, the design was gravely in error - a product of the bizarre Soviet system and how it dovetailed with science.

I am not sure how comfortable I am with China experimenting with biological warfare components and those in the West exporting their experiments to poorly staffed Chinese labs.

Our obsession with outsourcing to get around labor and environment costs and regulations will be the death of the West. 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by washparkhorn

[BigHorn'13 3387]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Another Gary Johnson voter coincidentally pushing Trump campaign talking points. I thought I smelled a rat. 

While I think I voted for him in the last election (or was it the green party? can't remember), I'm definitely not a "libertarian." I just strongly believe against the 2 party political system.

But I know all that means to you is I'm not a vote for blue and am directly responsible for putting the orange man in office. It's faulty logic that inevitably wears on most Americans to the point in believing in it when they're older. 

Who knows? One day I might pick up a blue bandana and bang with you but it ain't happening anytime soon. 

[BNB 100]

 

[BigHorn'13 3387]

Yeah saw this one a couple weeks back

 

[TwiceHorn 31627]

On a more sanguine note, anytime I dislike a situation or find it troubling, I have to ask "why is it this way"?

With China, the fairly obvious answer is the Communist Party and its authoritarian behavior.

But, the problem has roots somewhere earlier than the Chinese Communist Revolution.  Most countries that succumbed to authoritarian-style communism had a recent, and long, history of authoritarian governments and/or government instability, which is true in the case of China.

But, they have a significant, if long-past, history of being a great society and civilization, with innovation, exploration and all the earmarks of great ancient and modern societies.

Yet, the modern Chinese culture seems to be statist, collectivist, and anti-individual to a large and harmful degree, which is a state that seems to imply being a long time in the making rather than a recent development.

Here or on TOS, I had a thread about "Chinese copying" because I have always wondered why that stereotype exists and appears to be largely accurate.  But that's kind of a subset of the problem.

Anyone have any insight on this or is it something for a lifetime of academic study?

Edited May 4, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[BNB 100]

https://www.livescience.com/long-march-chinese-rocket-uncontrolled-crash.html
A 19.6-ton (17,800 kilograms) Chinese rocket slammed into our planet today (May 11).

The bulky Long March 5B became the heaviest orbiting thing to fall uncontrolled to Earth in nearly three decades, according to Jonathan McDowell, a Harvard astrophysicist and orbital object tracker.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:46 AM, TwiceHorn said:

On a more sanguine note, anytime I dislike a situation or find it troubling, I have to ask "why is it this way"?

With China, the fairly obvious answer is the Communist Party and its authoritarian behavior.

But, the problem has roots somewhere earlier than the Chinese Communist Revolution.  Most countries that succumbed to authoritarian-style communism had a recent, and long, history of authoritarian governments and/or government instability, which is true in the case of China.

But, they have a significant, if long-past, history of being a great society and civilization, with innovation, exploration and all the earmarks of great ancient and modern societies.

Yet, the modern Chinese culture seems to be statist, collectivist, and anti-individual to a large and harmful degree, which is a state that seems to imply being a long time in the making rather than a recent development.

Here or on TOS, I had a thread about "Chinese copying" because I have always wondered why that stereotype exists and appears to be largely accurate.  But that's kind of a subset of the problem.

Anyone have any insight on this or is it something for a lifetime of academic study?

China has never not been authoritarian.  Chinese imperial rule ended in 1912 after 4000 years. Technically, the republic existed from 1912-1949. Realistically though, it was never fully unified or functioning.  Civil war was ongoing, then the Japanese invaded, then civil war again.  The Republic of China gov't that we now see in Taiwan was pretty authoritarian itself and Taiwan was under martial law and single party rule until 1987 as well. 

[workswithseed 2121]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/stanley-black-decker-craftsman-production

 

Stanley bought Craftsman from struggling retailer Sears in 2017, which continues to sell some of the brand’s products. In an effort to cut costs, Sears had outsourced production to places like China and Mexico.

During its most recent earnings call, Stanley said its growth in North America continued to be fueled by its Craftsman brand rollout, where it said it saw expansion across all categories.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19171]

China devalues the Yuan

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-26/china-s-weaker-yuan-fix-is-the-real-cold-war-salvo?srnd=premium&sref=knoriXqz

The Hong Kong continues to be under attack by mainland.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-26/hong-kong-s-leader-defends-security-law-with-protests-looming?srnd=premium&sref=knoriXqz

[BigHorn'13 3387]

Distraction! 

/Democrats

[workswithseed 2121]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/hong-kong-one-party-two-systems-rule-over

 

“After careful study of developments over the reporting period, I certified to Congress today that Hong Kong does not continue to warrant treatment under United States laws in the same manner as U.S. laws were applied to Hong Kong before July 1997,” Pompeo said in a statement. “No reasonable person can assert today that Hong Kong maintains a high degree of autonomy from China, given facts on the ground."

[F250 28830]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:47 AM, TwiceHorn said:

All true, but their "pivot" toward capitalism and increased engagement with the west has increased the ways in which they act badly.

Some mistook it as part of a fall of the bamboo curtain, but it was really part of a scheme to extend the power and vitality of the regime.

The Chinese under Deng Xiaoping undertook economic reforms heavily influenced by Bukharin's New Economic Policy that was briefly applied in the Soviet Union until Stalin tossed it out. While Bukharinism does promote free market capitalism it is done with the idea that the market exists to support the State. In theory it's a transitional phase towards Socialism in the Marxist sense. Ultimately it boils down to State Capitalism and really is no different than the mixed market capitalism practiced by the Fascists. It was always intended to be authoritarian and benefit the expansion of the Party's power.

Something to think about is the Trump Right appears to hold a similar notion that the market exists for the sake of the State. Not really surprising considering they are Nationalists but a bit ironic that they criticize China while espousing similar views.

 

 

[berlinerbaer 678]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:26 AM, BigHorn'13 said:

Distraction! 

/Democrats

This administration is unwilling and unable to adequately deal with China aside from making obscene noises meant to sound like words. Ivanka doesn't want her trademarks taken away.

Without a change in leadership, a distraction is all China can be.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 5/27/2020 at 10:22 PM, F250 said:

The Chinese under Deng Xiaoping undertook economic reforms heavily influenced by Bukharin's New Economic Policy that was briefly applied in the Soviet Union until Stalin tossed it out. While Bukharinism does promote free market capitalism it is done with the idea that the market exists to support the State. In theory it's a transitional phase towards Socialism in the Marxist sense. Ultimately it boils down to State Capitalism and really is no different than the mixed market capitalism practiced by the Fascists. It was always intended to be authoritarian and benefit the expansion of the Party's power.

Something to think about is the Trump Right appears to hold a similar notion that the market exists for the sake of the State. Not really surprising considering they are Nationalists but a bit ironic that they criticize China while espousing similar views.

 

 

Yeah really ? when was the last time you heard a republican call for the nationalization of the energy industry, medical industry,  Health care industry, auto industry, etc. etc... oh yeah that's what democrats have ACTUALLY DONE done...

[Brisketexan 105465]

Yeah really ? when was the last time you heard a republican call for the nationalization of the energy industry, medical industry,  Health care industry, auto industry, etc. etc... oh yeah that's what democrats have ACTUALLY DONE done...

When you realize that “serve the state” and “serve the regime” are functionally the same....yeah.

[F250 28830]

31 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah really ? when was the last time you heard a republican call for the nationalization of the energy industry, medical industry,  Health care industry, auto industry, etc. etc... oh yeah that's what democrats have ACTUALLY DONE done...

I suggest you read a little before opining. You are so clueless.

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 hours ago, F250 said:

I suggest you read a little before opining. You are so clueless.

 

 

I don't like fairy tales, you have at it brah....  chase those bread crumbs.

[Alex Karev 1031]

On 5/27/2020 at 10:33 PM, berlinerbaer said:

This administration is unwilling and unable to adequately deal with China aside from making obscene noises meant to sound like words. Ivanka doesn't want her trademarks taken away.

Without a change in leadership, a distraction is all China can be.

Are you not familiar with what has been happening to the American farmers. 

[F250 28830]

30 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I don't like fairy tales, you have at it brah....  chase those bread crumbs.

Ok dumb ass.

I was discussing State Capitalism which is essentially the same practice that the Fascists practiced. Look up Mussolini if they didn't cover this at the JUCO you attended. This isn't about dur SOCIALISM but State Capitalism. I was discussing the transitional phase towards SOCIALISM.

Something that the Trump Republican party has advocated since day one. To answer your question, Bill Fucking Bart floated the idea of the United States purchasing Ericsson or Nokia just a few months ago as a state purchase. He also said that private companies could assist in conjunction to combat Hauwei. Either way this is a State purchase or a "championing" of private industry for State purposes. Literary the definition of State Capitalism.

You could also visit the Trump Trade Wars thread and see the Trump Republicans advocate for State interference on free trade. This isn't an advocacy of Western Liberal Economics argued by Adam Smith and David Ricardo its straight up Nationalism. The Free Hand be Damned, Trump knows what's best for Global Supply Chains. Who cares what's best for a particular industry this is about America, eh that is State Capitalism.

LOL When Trump does Fuck up shit then he has to Bail Out industries and create massive Deficits during the tail end of an economic boom. This all done for the benefit of the Regime.

Never mind all of the Rent-Seeking behavior created by the Republicans with the exceptions to all of the tarrifs.

Dude you are not a supporter of Capitalism.

[Rougarou 594]

I appreciated the thumbing of the nose at China today via WHO. I’ve been on record that we should do something or say something, and take a stand, against China and their wet market disease that has killed 100k Americans.

That said, I read a fantastic write up on the Taiwan chip plant being built in AZ and am glad to see some diversification away from making such sensitive and supply chain intensive products so close and easy to strike with middles from China.