China Sucks

[wildcat09 29376]

9 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

This is all true and right. We can't get in a time machine and change it, so let's do what we can to fix it, right?

The only problem I have is with your last statement. The narrative should have been "it's China's fault" from the jump. It's the literal origin story of the virus. It's China's fault that covid-19 exists and spread. That is a fact.

Now, you can't put the complete and full impact and deaths directly on China because we as a country were also complicit in our idiocy (up to and including Trump), but that doesn't mean that aggression, in some form or another, to China should not be brought to bear. Maybe even just whatever the diplomatic equivalent of a hard slap to the back of the head. I mean, at least a rolled up newspaper and quick smack on the nose! 

Anyways, China sucks.

The problem with blaming China for covid right now is it excuses the President from doing anything to fucking address it. Nearly every other country on the planet has gotten it under at least some reasonable measure of control, but the GOP is looking for any reason whatsoever to literally do nothing any just let it kill two million Americans. Focusing the blame on China right now enables that, and that's much more destructive to us right now and long term than China could ever fucking hope to be.

[Rougarou 594]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

China and the USA are more tied to the hip that most can imagine. Our economy is predicated on consumer spending (facilitated by exploding debt which is for another conversation). Consumer spending is predicated on cheap shit. I'd argue that we couldn't have had the economic growth we had in the last few decades without China supplying us with low cost goods.

If you want to see what happens when people stop buying goods, look no further than what's happening with Covid. Pay no mind to the stock market as that's not based on any fucking reality. Layoffs and business closings because people are out of jobs and/or not spending worried about long term financial health. People with money are paying down their debt (CC debt) and sitting on cash. If this is the new normal, then expect GDP and earnings to shrink going forward. Austerity means slower growth (also another discussion).

Companies should and are moving manufacturing and assembly to India, Vietnam and other places. But make no mistake, those countries and companies too will steal IP. As a country and company, you'd be stupid not to.

I think you are right and most people would agree with you. I also think the rise in "Globalization, Bad" thinking is rooted in everything you've just said.

When the world is flat via globalization you end up with a parabola, where the axis of symmetry and vertex is at 0, so that on one side you have those that benefit (all the way up the first quadrant where the 1% benefit down to the upper-middle class to a no-benefit/no-cost at 0) and those that are hurt (all the way up to the second quadrant where the child/slave labor and human rights violations victims are down to the poor and uneducated to a no-benefit/no-cost at 0).

[Rougarou 594]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The problem with blaming China for covid right now is it excuses the President from doing anything to fucking address it. Nearly every other country on the planet has gotten it under at least some reasonable measure of control, but the GOP is looking for any reason whatsoever to literally do nothing any just let it kill two million Americans. Focusing the blame on China right now enables that, and that's much more destructive to us right now and long term than China could ever fucking hope to be.

I think you can land in a place where you can assign requisite and fair amount of blame to China while also not making an excuse for the President.

I could be wrong, and this is where everyone is pointing to how stupid we are as a country and how broken our system is and how people are polarized and unreasonable, but I don't believe that to true outside of the internet and twitter. Maybe I just surround myself with a better class of people and am not seeing the reality of it all, though.

Anyways, China sucks. Let's go!

Edited July 22, 2020 by Rougarou

[crash_davis 23114]

9 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

This is all true and right. We can't get in a time machine and change it, so let's do what we can to fix it, right?

The only problem I have is with your last statement. The narrative should have been "it's China's fault" from the jump. It's the literal origin story of the virus. It's China's fault that covid-19 exists and spread. That is a fact.

Now, you can't put the complete and full impact and deaths directly on China because we as a country were also complicit in our idiocy (up to and including Trump), but that doesn't mean that aggression, in some form or another, to China should not be brought to bear. Maybe even just whatever the diplomatic equivalent of a hard slap to the back of the head. I mean, at least a rolled up newspaper and quick smack on the nose! 

Anyways, China sucks.

Arguing over the cause is way beyond stupid at this point. We had months to prepare and formalize a coherent response and it's still as much of cluster fuck today as it was in February. The only difference is the ginormous death toll.

So yea, China is the cause, so what? What's the world's recourse? 

If Trump wants to blame China, fine. They deserve it. But the two are not mutually exclusive. You can blame China AND get your shit together for a response to really address the virus issue short term and long term. The problem is shithead doesn't care about the latter because he hopes to former will protect him of all blame. For his fanbase, it will work. For those of us capable of rational thought, it's a got damned national disgrace.

 

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I agree with this take, except that Trump and his cronies don't actually know how to deal with China, so anything they do will most likely hurt us even more.  For god's sake, look at his 4 years of tariffs that China has just smiled at, while we pay the price.  They play a really long game.  Trump can't think past today.

China is playing the waiting game. Chances of Trump getting re-elected are slim. Once he's out, they don't have to do shit. Or worst case he's elected for 4 more years. They'll wait that out too because this country will tear itself apart from within which will make Putin happy because that means his deception campaign worked with Trumps help.

Here's a prime example of how China is dealing with Trump. Trump touted that huge China trade deal. The issue is there's no language to force China to comply with the terms. There are no penalties if they don't meet their obligation. I negotiate contracts all the time. That's what I would call a toothless contract that's all for show. They wait out Trump and simply not comply. If he gets re-elected, they'll throw him a bone for a year while making NO movement on the real meat of the trade war which was protection of US IP. It's been 4 fucking years and that's still not on the table for discussion.

Meanwhile my manufacturing company had to lay off 20% in November of last year directly due to the slowdown in manufacturing from the Trade War. Fucking beyond stupid.

[Rougarou 594]

Not sure how my response got embedded into yours.

You said: 

So yea, China is the cause, so what? What's the world's recourse? 

If Trump wants to blame China, fine. They deserve it. But the two are not mutually exclusive. You can blame China AND get your shit together for a response to really address the virus issue short term and long term.

 

 

100% agree with you here. 

So you asked the question, what's the recourse? Up until now it's been to pretend that calling out China for starting this pandemic due to it's barbaric (with respect to the West's) cultural practice of wet-markets, where the 1% eat pangolin brains and monkeys and tiger genitalia because of the thrill and pseudoscience sexuality is racist.

I'm not even sure if kicking out the consulate in Houston is a recourse to Covid-19, it sounds like it's probably in response to other geopolitical fights, but you know what? I'll take it for now. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Rougarou

[crash_davis 23114]

21 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Not sure how my response got embedded into yours.

You said: 

So yea, China is the cause, so what? What's the world's recourse? 

If Trump wants to blame China, fine. They deserve it. But the two are not mutually exclusive. You can blame China AND get your shit together for a response to really address the virus issue short term and long term.

 

 

100% agree with you here. 

So you asked the question, what's the recourse? Up until now it's been to pretend that calling out China for starting this pandemic due to it's barbaric (with respect to the West's) cultural practice of wet-markets, where the 1% eat pangolin brains and monkeys and tiger genitalia because of the thrill and pseudoscience sexuality is racist.

I'm not even sure if kicking out the consulate in Houston is a recourse to Covid-19, it sounds like it's probably in response to other geopolitical fights, but you know what? I'll take it for now. 

My guess is the Houston consulate is and will be part of the new program to try to divert blame to China and absolve Trump from blame for Covid. Just this week, he again referred to Covid as the China Flu. He's going back to his lowest common denominator tactic which is to blame foreigners, immigrants, and other countries. He's losing in the polls and fired his campaign manager. This is the new offensive to win back credibility. Suddenly, he's on board with wearing masks, all the while shitting on masks wearers from the other side of his mouth.

Should the consulate be close. Yea probably. But then again, if we are closing embassies and shit because of spying then let's also fucking start closing Russian and Israeli offices. They will do the same to us in their countries.

The timing of this smacks of desperation. Look for the China Bad campaign to ramp up.

Edited July 22, 2020 by crash_davis

[InkaUtexas 26058]

China can be contained. It can be punished without resulting in pushing them into a full warrior setting. 

1- Food is a problem for them. Stop letting them purchase US food producers. Pork industry is a great example. 

2- Keep up pressure on the government of Burma (yeah, I called it that) which is how they will remove the threat presented by the Malaca Straits. This checkpoint is where most of their oil comes through. Plus fuck their Generals and the years of genocide being committed. 

3- Slowly push for US companies to divest from China. This does not happen fast, but with incentives at the State level it can be done. Hell, encourage investment into new areas (Latin America, etc). this would result in higher prices for the US Consumer, but do we really need all that crap sold at 5 and Below? 

4- Expand our push to slow down/halt the Silk Road program. Sri Lanka saw the impact and other countries took notice. Kenya gave China the Mombassa-Nairobi train project. Now they are being threatened since the loan was so crappy for Kenya they are going to default. China wants control of the port of Mombassa. Kenya said fuck off, and gave Parsons the accompanying high way project which surprised a lot of East Africa experts. Pakistan is rethinking their role in the program. 

5- Modify how we let Chinese Nationals study in the US. Encourage their inclusion in humanities, less in Tech. Fuck em, they can develop their own. At the same time closely monitor Chinese participation/funding to US Universities and the open recruitment of US trained academics. Stories about this broke in February of this year, but were overshadowed by other events. 

6- Reengage with the international bodies we have allowed China to take over (WHO is a great example). Yes, this takes a change in leadership, but I think this is coming. As previous posters said, containment takes all the Western Democracies to participate. 

7- Continue to expand military roles with Southeast Asian and Pacific Rim nations. Aussie navy was harassed today per a report I saw this morning. Every time some shit like this happens make sure it is on the news. Propaganda has a place. Use it. We have the tools. Yes, there are problems with how we are structured now, but this can be changed. 

I am sure the Surl brain trust can expand on these, but just some thoughts while reading this. 

[workswithseed 2110]

I think a good first step would be to get Hong Kong back on track of gaining it's independence again. It would be a small win, but very good one if that could happen.

[InkaUtexas 26058]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

I think a good first step would be to get Hong Kong back on track of gaining it's independence again. It would be a small win, but very good one if that could happen.

This will lead to war. Brits were dumbasses for getting rid of it. We lost Hong Kong. 

[Rougarou 594]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

China can be contained. It can be punished without resulting in pushing them into a full warrior setting. 

1- Food is a problem for them. Stop letting them purchase US food producers. Pork industry is a great example. 

2- Keep up pressure on the government of Burma (yeah, I called it that) which is how they will remove the threat presented by the Malaca Straits. This checkpoint is where most of their oil comes through. Plus fuck their Generals and the years of genocide being committed. 

3- Slowly push for US companies to divest from China. This does not happen fast, but with incentives at the State level it can be done. Hell, encourage investment into new areas (Latin America, etc). this would result in higher prices for the US Consumer, but do we really need all that crap sold at 5 and Below? 

4- Expand our push to slow down/halt the Silk Road program. Sri Lanka saw the impact and other countries took notice. Kenya gave China the Mombassa-Nairobi train project. Now they are being threatened since the loan was so crappy for Kenya they are going to default. China wants control of the port of Mombassa. Kenya said fuck off, and gave Parsons the accompanying high way project which surprised a lot of East Africa experts. Pakistan is rethinking their role in the program. 

5- Modify how we let Chinese Nationals study in the US. Encourage their inclusion in humanities, less in Tech. Fuck em, they can develop their own. At the same time closely monitor Chinese participation/funding to US Universities and the open recruitment of US trained academics. Stories about this broke in February of this year, but were overshadowed by other events. 

6- Reengage with the international bodies we have allowed China to take over (WHO is a great example). Yes, this takes a change in leadership, but I think this is coming. As previous posters said, containment takes all the Western Democracies to participate. 

7- Continue to expand military roles with Southeast Asian and Pacific Rim nations. Aussie navy was harassed today per a report I saw this morning. Every time some shit like this happens make sure it is on the news. Propaganda has a place. Use it. We have the tools. Yes, there are problems with how we are structured now, but this can be changed. 

I am sure the Surl brain trust can expand on these, but just some thoughts while reading this. 

Such a great post. I was going to say, to your 5th point, that is a very true issue and something we have to be careful about not being racist/insensitive about too. The fact is, UT as a school is miles ahead of where it was when I graduated having mostly to do with foreign students the last two or three decades, with Indian and Chinese being the majority of them. All the California system schools (especially UCLA and UC-Irvine) are the same way. And the etc. Administration and University's aren't going to want to limit their applicant pools, pipeline of strong students and revenue so this will be a fight.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Rougarou

[InkaUtexas 26058]

Just now, Rougarou said:

Such a great post. I was going to say, to your 5th point, that is a very true issue and something we have to be careful about not being racist/insensitive about too. The fact is, UT as a school is miles ahead of where it was when I graduated having mostly to do with foreign students, with Indian and Chinese being the majority of them. All the California system schools (especially UCLA and UC-Irvine) are the same way. And the etc.

Which is why I say modify, not limit/get rid of. And the "gifts" presented to universities and specific professors needs to stop. 

[crash_davis 23114]

9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

China can be contained. It can be punished without resulting in pushing them into a full warrior setting. 

1- Food is a problem for them. Stop letting them purchase US food producers. Pork industry is a great example. 

 

Symbiotic relationship. This punishes the US farmers for which China is a HUGE customer.

I agree with the rest. However, that means acknowledging that the US a part of a larger wheel. In Trump and Bannon's world, we are full on nationalistic mode. Fuck everyone else. 

The problem is everyone is/will do the same thing, Fuck everyone else. Nationalism is great right up to the point where we stop trading goods and start trading bombs.

Edited July 22, 2020 by crash_davis

[InkaUtexas 26058]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Symbiotic relationship. This punishes the US farmers for which China is a HUGE customer.

I agree with the rest. However, that means acknowledging that the US a part of a larger wheel. In Trump and Bannon's world, we are full on nationalistic mode. Fuck everyone else. 

The problem is everyone is/will do the same thing, Fuck everyone else. Nationalism is great right up to the point that we stop trading goods and start trading bombs.

We have a lot of hungry people in this country. I am sure we can work something out. 

On another note. Pompeo is meeting with the Danish Foreign Minister. The Minister just stated this. 

• We also discussed China and Hong Kong.  The EU has characterized China as a necessary negotiating partner on issues such as climate, but also an economic competitor and a systemic rival.  Following last week’s Foreign Affairs Council, an EU (inaudible) paper regarding Hong Kong is now being drafted, a decision Denmark fully supports.  Both EU-27 and I have publicly and repeatedly stated our deep concern.  It is clear that Europe needs a common, coordinated, and a strong position on China

Pompeo also stated the following. 

• I don’t have much to add other than the statement that the State Department put out with respect to the closure of the Chinese consulate in Houston.  Your point in your question was that there’s been this long challenge of the Chinese Communist Party stealing intellectual property.  We actually talked about this.  It’s not just American intellectual property been stolen, it’s been European intellectual property too, causing hundreds – costing hundreds of thousands of jobs, good jobs for hard-working people all across Europe and America stolen by the Chinese Communist Party. 

Viking lovers can read the press statements here. 

https://www.state.gov/secretary-michael-r-pompeo-at-a-press-availability-with-danish-foreign-minister-jeppe-kofod/

 

[Huckleberry 33069]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

We have a lot of hungry people in this country. I am sure we can work something out. 

Well we'd need to because it's perfectly reasonable to approach the China problem from a national security standpoint. If we take away a chunk of American food production customers we need to replace them with other customers or we will obviously be less capable of taking care of our own food supply in a crisis situation.

I'm sure most here understand that but just reinforcing the issue that this would have to be a comprehensive plan with a lot of buy-in from every corner of America. So I'm not too optimistic about it right now.

[InkaUtexas 26058]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Well we'd need to because it's perfectly reasonable to approach the China problem from a national security standpoint. If we take away a chunk of American food production customers we need to replace them with other customers or we will obviously be less capable of taking care of our own food supply in a crisis situation.

I'm sure most here understand that but just reinforcing the issue that this would have to be a comprehensive plan with a lot of buy-in from every corner of America. So I'm not too optimistic about it right now.

Agree. And I stated there is change on the horizon. Would like to see Biden come out with a containment plan. 

Shit, give the food to the UN as part of our commitment AND part of a containment strategy. A lot of countries donate goods/people/services (especially in Peacekeeping) to help pay their dues. Do the same. 

 

[crash_davis 23114]

There's no free giving of food. We (US taxpayers) will have to pay the farmers for the food which will be given away.

I'm not opposed to that but welfare is welfare no matter who the recipient is. It's just less of welfare if it's white people. I keed, sorta.

[SydneyCarton 48149]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

There's no free giving of food. We (US taxpayers) will have to pay the farmers for the food which will be given away.

I'm not opposed to that but welfare is welfare no matter who the recipient is. It's just less of welfare if it's white people. I keed, sorta.

Farmers have been subsidized for years by the US government in various ways. There’s been articles recently talking about how Trumped turned on the spigots already from trade wars and covid and there’s concerns what farmers do when it gets turned off (blame democrats). This is nothing different. It can be done but it won’t get done because of partisan dog whistles about welfare, socialism, etc. 

[crash_davis 23114]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Farmers have been subsidized for years by the US government in various ways. There’s been articles recently talking about how Trumped turned on the spigots already from trade wars and covid and there’s concerns what farmers do when it gets turned off (blame democrats). This is nothing different. It can be done but it won’t get done because of partisan dog whistles about welfare, socialism, etc. 

I am fully aware. We gave farmers roughly $15B due to the Trade War and another X billions as part of the Covid package (I forgot and am too lazy to look up how much).

Pubs didn't bitch about those packages but will bitch about traditional welfare and medicaid. Welfare is welfare.

Edited July 22, 2020 by crash_davis

[tx 3 putt 77325]

Trump’s China policy is one huge failure. 
 

closing their consulate is a horrible move and needless. Bad politics in 2020 

Hong Kong has only the brits to home for their current situation. The us doesn’t need to get involved 

taiwan is our concern though 

[Rougarou 594]

8 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Trump’s China policy is one huge failure. 
 

closing their consulate is a horrible move and needless. Bad politics in 2020 

Hong Kong has only the brits to home for their current situation. The us doesn’t need to get involved 

taiwan is our concern though 

This seems like a bad/wrong opinion to me.

[tx 3 putt 77325]

Someone needs to figure how to pump unfiltered internet into China 

[InkaUtexas 26058]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

Someone needs to figure how to pump unfiltered internet into China 

Back door Tik Toks back door? 

[SydneyCarton 48149]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Someone needs to figure how to pump unfiltered internet into China 

Maybe Elon Musk’s satellite network is the answer? I don’t know how that shit works. 

[Rougarou 594]

Just Google "Great Firewall" and you can spend days reading about how "just pump internet into China" is a glib and/or ignorant statement.

Heck, if anything, China is about to kick Facebook completely out of Hong Kong and China, and we all know how allegedly complicit GOOG has been with CCP...

[Biff Tannen 45710]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

China can be contained. It can be punished without resulting in pushing them into a full warrior setting. 

1- Food is a problem for them. Stop letting them purchase US food producers. Pork industry is a great example. 

2- Keep up pressure on the government of Burma (yeah, I called it that) which is how they will remove the threat presented by the Malaca Straits. This checkpoint is where most of their oil comes through. Plus fuck their Generals and the years of genocide being committed. 

3- Slowly push for US companies to divest from China. This does not happen fast, but with incentives at the State level it can be done. Hell, encourage investment into new areas (Latin America, etc). this would result in higher prices for the US Consumer, but do we really need all that crap sold at 5 and Below? 

4- Expand our push to slow down/halt the Silk Road program. Sri Lanka saw the impact and other countries took notice. Kenya gave China the Mombassa-Nairobi train project. Now they are being threatened since the loan was so crappy for Kenya they are going to default. China wants control of the port of Mombassa. Kenya said fuck off, and gave Parsons the accompanying high way project which surprised a lot of East Africa experts. Pakistan is rethinking their role in the program. 

5- Modify how we let Chinese Nationals study in the US. Encourage their inclusion in humanities, less in Tech. Fuck em, they can develop their own. At the same time closely monitor Chinese participation/funding to US Universities and the open recruitment of US trained academics. Stories about this broke in February of this year, but were overshadowed by other events. 

6- Reengage with the international bodies we have allowed China to take over (WHO is a great example). Yes, this takes a change in leadership, but I think this is coming. As previous posters said, containment takes all the Western Democracies to participate. 

7- Continue to expand military roles with Southeast Asian and Pacific Rim nations. Aussie navy was harassed today per a report I saw this morning. Every time some shit like this happens make sure it is on the news. Propaganda has a place. Use it. We have the tools. Yes, there are problems with how we are structured now, but this can be changed. 

I am sure the Surl brain trust can expand on these, but just some thoughts while reading this. 

This all sounds very logical, factual, and strategic.

You should probably go ahead and forward that to the current admin, because I guarantee none of these things have crossed their minds.

[InkaUtexas 26058]

LOL, just think about these things when bored. Also, read Kaplan's book Monsoon. He talks a lot about it.

Also, since Aung San Suu Kyi became the poster child of Burma's reopening USAID has been dumping development money into the country. Pisses off my friends who work with the Karen Rangers and other opposition groups, most of whom are in exile. We are watching the roads north being built and are doing nothing about it.

I used to shake my head when on one side of the mountain in Afghanistan were US forces and on the other a Chinese run mine. Fuck our policy. Fuck China. 

[Rougarou 594]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This all sounds very logical, factual, and strategic.

You should probably go ahead and forward that to the current admin, because I guarantee none of these things have crossed their minds.

Right? Not sure he's getting enough credit for the post. I read a lot of blogs and articles and have yet to see something so effectively distilled and reasonable. InkaUtexas for local public office (lol).

[InkaUtexas 26058]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Right? Not sure he's getting enough credit for the post. I read a lot of blogs and articles and have yet to see something so effectively distilled and reasonable. InkaUtexas for local public office (lol).

Hahaha, nah, way to much partying during my UT days. But go ahead and forward it. Just buy me a beer at the Posse East when all this crap is over. 

[Biff Tannen 45710]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Hahaha, nah, way to much partying during my UT days. But go ahead and forward it. Just buy me a beer at the Posse East when all this crap is over. 

Let's call it The Crown and Anchor and I'm down.

[InkaUtexas 26058]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Let's call it The Crown and Anchor and I'm down.

One and One. A compromise. 

[Smax 3800]

China can be contained. It can be punished without resulting in pushing them into a full warrior setting. 
1- Food is a problem for them. Stop letting them purchase US food producers. Pork industry is a great example. 
2- Keep up pressure on the government of Burma (yeah, I called it that) which is how they will remove the threat presented by the Malaca Straits. This checkpoint is where most of their oil comes through. Plus fuck their Generals and the years of genocide being committed. 
3- Slowly push for US companies to divest from China. This does not happen fast, but with incentives at the State level it can be done. Hell, encourage investment into new areas (Latin America, etc). this would result in higher prices for the US Consumer, but do we really need all that crap sold at 5 and Below? 
4- Expand our push to slow down/halt the Silk Road program. Sri Lanka saw the impact and other countries took notice. Kenya gave China the Mombassa-Nairobi train project. Now they are being threatened since the loan was so crappy for Kenya they are going to default. China wants control of the port of Mombassa. Kenya said fuck off, and gave Parsons the accompanying high way project which surprised a lot of East Africa experts. Pakistan is rethinking their role in the program. 
5- Modify how we let Chinese Nationals study in the US. Encourage their inclusion in humanities, less in Tech. Fuck em, they can develop their own. At the same time closely monitor Chinese participation/funding to US Universities and the open recruitment of US trained academics. Stories about this broke in February of this year, but were overshadowed by other events. 
6- Reengage with the international bodies we have allowed China to take over (WHO is a great example). Yes, this takes a change in leadership, but I think this is coming. As previous posters said, containment takes all the Western Democracies to participate. 
7- Continue to expand military roles with Southeast Asian and Pacific Rim nations. Aussie navy was harassed today per a report I saw this morning. Every time some shit like this happens make sure it is on the news. Propaganda has a place. Use it. We have the tools. Yes, there are problems with how we are structured now, but this can be changed. 
I am sure the Surl brain trust can expand on these, but just some thoughts while reading this. 

To #3

An added bonus would be an emerging industry aka jobs that might slow down illigal immigration problem we have

Our addiction to cheap china products though.., going to be tougher then a crackhead going clean

[InkaUtexas 26058]

1 minute ago, Smax said:

To #3

An added bonus would be an emerging industry aka jobs that might slow down illigal immigration problem we have

Our addiction to cheap china products though.., going to be tougher then a crackhead going clean

Absolutely. We worked on a plan for this with a think tank based on the premise that immigration is a fluctuation of want and needs in both locations. Address it in a reasonable nature and it can work. Learn from the mistakes of the past concerning US investment in Latin America, but following ILO standards, etc, and it is worth trying. 

The textile industry in Central America and the Caribbean is pretty good. They could be making our PPE right now and instead we all have to order crappy masks made in Wuhan. Which of course will be flooded in the next 2-3 weeks. 

One thing over looked about Chinese assistance to countries is it really amounts to very little for the person at the end of the line who needs it and is more of a propaganda tool for CCP and the current local ruling party. I have worked across the developing world and seen first hand the devastation left behind by China. The oil fields of Sudan are a good example. 

[Rougarou 594]

I think the cultural question we need to ask ourselves as a people, was succinctly worded in "Do we really need all that crap sold at 5 and Below?"

 

[F250 28813]

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Someone needs to figure how to pump unfiltered internet into China 

I've done that before, I may have talked about it in this thread or a different one but I got caught several times and received multiple letters from the Chinese government informing me that I was in violation of their laws. They even provided a list of things that were not approved for Chinese citizens and it was pretty much everything on the internet. I also caught flack for the use of encryption, they really do not like encryption.

Anyways, I am pretty sure I made a list so I don't plan to ever step foot in China.

[tx 3 putt 77325]

36 minutes ago, F250 said:

I've done that before, I may have talked about it in this thread or a different one but I got caught several times and received multiple letters from the Chinese government informing me that I was in violation of their laws. They even provided a list of things that were not approved for Chinese citizens and it was pretty much everything on the internet. I also caught flack for the use of encryption, they really do not like encryption.

Anyways, I am pretty sure I made a list so I don't plan to ever step foot in China.

 

if you're lucky, the Houston Chinese Consulate burned your file ?

[staboner 4984]

6 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

LOL, just think about these things when bored. Also, read Kaplan's book Monsoon. He talks a lot about it.

Also, since Aung San Suu Kyi became the poster child of Burma's reopening USAID has been dumping development money into the country. Pisses off my friends who work with the Karen Rangers and other opposition groups, most of whom are in exile. We are watching the roads north being built and are doing nothing about it.

I used to shake my head when on one side of the mountain in Afghanistan were US forces and on the other a Chinese run mine. Fuck our policy. Fuck China. 

All of those things have somewhat been in motion for some time. There most certainly should be more to show for it, but alas money loves money and its hard to leave cheap, good labor and a machine that pumps it out as a national policy.

Like anything in life all of what you wrote makes perfect fucking sense but with a child running the show, a decaying economy in both places, and tensions all over the geopolitical scene - nothing but fuckery lies in the wait. Our fucking navies were tweeting at each other the other week for fuck sake.

What happened in Australia with the cyber attack last month is what you and everyone else needs to get their heads around - because that is what is coming. Government sponsored fuckery across finance, health and infra is already up a notch. They are using places like Aussie as a big "F U" message and will continue to push buttons there to see what is possible. Some local Chinese diplomats have already told Australia to go F itself. All because Aussie wanted to push for an international investigation, that China eventually agreed to anyway.

China is a logical, bloodthirsty monster that is currently short circuiting. The leaders there are aware of how to best deal with the US - let it punch itself in the dick over and over - and they want that to happen. But like the US - and in more particular the Repulibcan party - the commies use a vision of Chinese dominance over the US as a means of motivation and control. As their machine falls apart it will be very difficult to keep the lid on these raging fuckers they have created. 

I would take a loss of HK and Taiwan in a heartbeat. Give me that and a decade-long depression - what a dream that would be. 

[InkaUtexas 26058]

You speak truth. I watch the PACOM area pretty closely. Not my focus, but you are correct. With their attitude and our lack of leadership and hyper focus on the war on terror we let them slip in. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

Pompeo speech on China (at Nixon Library) starting now: 

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

He is making the case that Nixon's China policies failed - describing China as a pariah state. War drums. 

[Captainant 27726]

9 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

He is making the case that Nixon's China policies failed - describing China as a pariah state. War drums. 

Pariah state, huh? Every accusation a confession

[BigHorn'13 3386]

On 7/22/2020 at 11:03 AM, Rougarou said:

The narrative should have been "it's China's fault" from the jump. It's the literal origin story of the virus. It's China's fault that covid-19 exists and spread. That is a fact.

You can check the covid thread, I was banging this drum as my first venture in the cloak room back in April. Every reply was pretty much what's already been stated to you. 

I say that to say I still very much believe this to be true. However, now in July and about a 100k more in deaths later, the whole "what's our responsibility in all this" question is starting to weigh more heavily on me. At some point we have to say, "yeah, China's government kicked us again. This time squarely in the nuts. But why are we still squeezing (no aggy) and picking at them? It hurts and we should probably stop doing that..."

The  CCP can go play hide and go fuck themselves all they want. We shouldn't be joining them in their fuckery while also winning their own fucking game. 

[BigHorn'13 3386]

Dubs

Edited July 23, 2020 by BigHorn'13
Remix

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

It was mostly Japans fault that we got our shit pushed in at Pearl Harbor and the subsequent slaughter across the pacific.  Did we whine and cry and let it roll over?  Because they started it?  Blame China all you want for originating this, but don’t be a little bitch about doing the hard things you need to do to get past the battle, in order to fight the war.

[tx 3 putt 77325]

I’m seeing blurbs the Houston Consulate is not closing 

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/07/23/china-refuses-commit-close-houston-consulate-380220

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by tx 3 putt

[InkaUtexas 26058]

Retaliation move. China tells us to close our consulate in Chengdu. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53522640

China's foreign ministry said the closure was a "legitimate and necessary response to the unreasonable actions taken by the United States". 

"The current situation between China and the United States is something China does not want to see, and the US bears all responsibility for that."

China gave the US till Monday to close the consulate in Chengdu, according to the editor of China's Global Times.

The mission, established in 1985 and currently having more than 200 staff - 150 hired locally - is seen as strategically important because it allows the US to gather information on the autonomous region of Tibet, where there has been long-running pressure for independence. 

With its industry and growing services sector, Chengdu also is seen by the US as providing opportunities for exports of agricultural products, cars and machinery.

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

35 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Retaliation move. China tells us to close our consulate in Chengdu. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53522640

China's foreign ministry said the closure was a "legitimate and necessary response to the unreasonable actions taken by the United States". 

"The current situation between China and the United States is something China does not want to see, and the US bears all responsibility for that."

China gave the US till Monday to close the consulate in Chengdu, according to the editor of China's Global Times.

The mission, established in 1985 and currently having more than 200 staff - 150 hired locally - is seen as strategically important because it allows the US to gather information on the autonomous region of Tibet, where there has been long-running pressure for independence. 

With its industry and growing services sector, Chengdu also is seen by the US as providing opportunities for exports of agricultural products, cars and machinery.

 

If they really want to put the hurt on us, they’d revoke some of Ivanka’s trademarks, and cease production of MAGA hats.

[InkaUtexas 26058]

9 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

If they really want to put the hurt on us, they’d revoke some of Ivanka’s trademarks, and cease production of MAGA hats.

Well except the CCP is probably getting a cut off of those. 

Interesting is they chose this one and its proximity to Tibet. Plus the ongoing tensions with India would make this a good listening post for us. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11820]

15 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Well except the CCP is probably getting a cut off of those. 

Interesting is they chose this one and its proximity to Tibet. Plus the ongoing tensions with India would make this a good listening post for us. 

Yeah, I’m not sure what nefarious stuff they were pulling off in Houston aside from their SOP of IP theft and information gathering, but seems like from a strategic sense they got the better of the deal.  Not like Houston is going to take over Beaumont, like Tibet.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 7/22/2020 at 12:12 PM, Rougarou said:

I mean, you aren't wrong. This is why history is written by those who can solve big problems, I guess. But I guarantee you that the brightest minds in technology, and specifically USA/Silicon Valley, are paying attention and seeing China as a threat-- maybe those brilliant (and morally flexible, cut-throat) people can figure something out for the heartland.

They have, to an extent. Most of them now have an extensive remote workforce, and will hire people that live anywhere.  The issue is that most people in the heartland who code or are ready to do other remote jobs offered by tech firms don't want to live in the heartland so they move.

When it comes to fixed labor markets in small towns, its a tough sell.  Even if manufacturers move more tech manufacturing back to the US, almost none of it will go to the old factory towns that need it.  They want locations where people will compete for the jobs.

[Rougarou 594]

20 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

They have, to an extent. Most of them now have an extensive remote workforce, and will hire people that live anywhere.  The issue is that most people in the heartland who code or are ready to do other remote jobs offered by tech firms don't want to live in the heartland so they move.

When it comes to fixed labor markets in small towns, its a tough sell.  Even if manufacturers move more tech manufacturing back to the US, almost none of it will go to the old factory towns that need it.  They want locations where people will compete for the jobs.

Sure. But my point to the blurb you responded to was more, the minds in bleeding edge of tech (Stanford, MIT, etc.) who live and breathe the Silicon Valley ecosystem, can figure out the China problem (by and large winning the cyber war) for those of us rubes and Luddites outside of the coasts.

To your point, I agree with you and I am also encouraged that remote jobs seem to be trending and normalizing. I've worked from home/remote for most of my career and have done my job in a variety of states and countries, and just as long as I'm on my calls nobody cares. Scaling that out, hopefully you see a dissemination or diaspora of Bay Area tech geniuses (genuii?). Savvy ones will for sure leave just to make their money stretch further via lower taxes and cost of living/real estate/rent, but I've already heard some companies are mulling fighting back with paying the same people/roles different pay grades depending on their location and the fair market value/rate, which would be a bummer.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Rougarou