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A Shaggster From Long Ago May Get a Federal Pardon


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On 1/24/2025 at 9:03 PM, ChiTownDoc said:

Dude deserved to rot

 

Also put 99% of posters here in his shoes - we do exactly what he did, if not worse.   

 

99% of us would knowingly facilitate mass drug trade and solicit murder?  "or worse"?  and people rec this?

 

i honestly see why he didn't get charged with soliciting murder. the 'online edgelord talk' defense is evidently a lot more common than i realized.

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1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 

99% of us would knowingly facilitate mass drug trade and solicit murder?  "or worse"?  and people rec this?

 

i honestly see why he didn't get charged with soliciting murder. the 'online edgelord talk' defense is evidently a lot more common than i realized.

It’s a slippery slope and people get lost online.  Lose touch with reality fast.  And the free will thing…

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9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

It’s a slippery slope and people get lost online.  Lose touch with reality fast.  And the free will thing…

As most know, I spend an inordinate amount of time considering sentencing and what's right and just.

I think a lot of internet crimes might not happen but for the internet.  It make some people crazy.

I also contemplate the seriousness of drug dealing.  Setting aside the rectitude of the drug war, on the one hand you have someone engaging in a profit-making venture premised on the suffering of others.  On the other hand, you have a crime often fueled by either addiction or economic desperation.  The former, theoretically, is abominable and deserving of serious punishment.  The latter strongly mitigates that.  It's quite a dilemma.

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2 hours ago, sidis said:

something very few people know about this story is that while he was in prison, a woman visited ross on the reg and they ended up getting married while he was in jail.

wonder how that's going to go.

fucking costanza, always a visionary.

george-is-on-another-level-ive-just-watc

"I just discovered something better than conjugal visit sex .... fugitive sex!"

Edited by HornOnTheBayou
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2 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

99% of us would knowingly facilitate mass drug trade and solicit murder?

I am convinced he didn't set out to become a druglord or to be ordering hits (pretend ones or real ones). Now that I've re-read some of the articles and transcripts relating to his case, I had forgotten that his motive was that he felt like he was being blackmailed and that everyone who'd ever used Silk Road could be exposed to harm. Reminiscent of some of the conundrums Walter White had found himself in on Breaking Bad. Probably understood that he was doing a bad thing for a seemingly noble purpose and preventing what he perceived were much greater harms to a community whose wellbeing he felt responsible for.

Is that a viable legal defense? Not to me, but I'd consider it important to a comprehensive discussion of how deserving or undeserving he was of clemency. Is he totally in the clear for non-federal charges or could some other prosecutor go after him?

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1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Is he totally in the clear for non-federal charges or could some other prosecutor go after him?

Federal conviction doesn't broadly preclude state prosecution under double jeopardy principles.  But some states preclude a second prosecution by statute.

The other issue would be statute of limitations.  The crimes are 10+ years old, which would run a lot of limitations.  However, some limitations are "tolled" for imprisonment (seems stupid to me, really easy to locate and serve) and for being outside the state.

 

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Federal conviction doesn't broadly preclude state prosecution under double jeopardy principles.  But some states preclude a second prosecution by statute.

The other issue would be statute of limitations.  The crimes are 10+ years old, which would run a lot of limitations.  However, some limitations are "tolled" for imprisonment (seems stupid to me, really easy to locate and serve) and for being outside the state.

 

He was living in California I believe

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I fully expect "my team" bias for insignificant stuff like a program you root for cheating in recruiting or spying on the opposing team. 

But to see it here with a guy who facilitated the deaths and harm to undocumented amounts of people? That ran a market that absolutely did harm to Americans?  And allegedly tried to have a couple of people murdered? Just because he used to post around these parts and is a longhorn fan?

This is a moral depravity I probably should have expected from some of you given where we are as a country right now, but it's still disturbing. I wouldn't want to associate with this psychopath for one second. 

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20 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I fully expect "my team" bias for insignificant stuff like a program you root for cheating in recruiting or spying on the opposing team. 

But to see it here with a guy who facilitated the deaths and harm to undocumented amounts of people? That ran a market that absolutely did harm to Americans?  And allegedly tried to have a couple of people murdered? Just because he used to post around these parts and is a longhorn fan?

This is a moral depravity I probably should have expected from some of you given where we are as a country right now, but it's still disturbing. I wouldn't want to associate with this psychopath for one second. 

First point, do you have a link to this?

Second, you’re a clown, and nobody wants to associate with you. Fucking Hermanator. 

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6 minutes ago, Bullneck 2.0 said:

7 Types of Mirrors to Use In The Bedroom - hollywood mirrors

Not true. I have a posse, you little negging bitch. 

I actually agree with Hermanator’s sentiment that RU is scum, and his celebration here is weird. And that’s my Westlake brethren. But nobody was killed. Nobody was harmed. And moral depravity of this ilk has nothing to do with where we are as a country. He’s being a sanctimonious cunt talking out of his ass, with the facts all wrong and making stupid emotional arguments. Which is very common with him. 

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13 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Dude, I know the story. This doesn’t answer my question. There is no evidence anyone was harmed, much less killed. 

People overdosed shortly after purchasing drugs from Silk Road. I recall the feds linking a handful of deaths (naming the deceased and their purchases from Silk Road). Whether you think the creator of the marketplace that facilitated those purchases shares any responsibility depends on your own ethical framework. 

Edited by Blotto
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3 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Yeah that was what I was referring to. There were 100K+ of narcotics transactions facilitated by Silk Road, and as the transactions were largely anonymous, common sense would suggest that there were likely more than 6 overdose deaths as all kinds of questionable drugs were likely being distributed. But again, some people will only assign blame to the individuals that purchased the drugs while others would see the dealers and/or RU as complicit as well. 

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21 minutes ago, Blotto said:

People overdosed shortly after purchasing drugs from Silk Road. I recall the feds linking a handful of deaths (naming the deceased and their purchases from Silk Road). Whether you think the creator of the marketplace that facilitated those purchases shares any responsibility depends on your own ethical framework. 

John Self is now on Bluesky on X: "For anyone else wondering ...

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1 hour ago, Blotto said:

People overdosed shortly after purchasing drugs from Silk Road. I recall the feds linking a handful of deaths (naming the deceased and their purchases from Silk Road). Whether you think the creator of the marketplace that facilitated those purchases shares any responsibility depends on your own ethical framework. 

 

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

 

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

Yeah that was what I was referring to. There were 100K+ of narcotics transactions facilitated by Silk Road, and as the transactions were largely anonymous, common sense would suggest that there were likely more than 6 overdose deaths as all kinds of questionable drugs were likely being distributed. But again, some people will only assign blame to the individuals that purchased the drugs while others would see the dealers and/or RU as complicit as well. 

I ascribe blame primarily to addicts and secondarily to ultimate facilitators, which would include cartels and principals of networks  like the one RU set up. I wasn’t aware there were overdose deaths directly tied to SR but that’s completely understandable. Regardless, I’m the antithesis of a RU super fan, and Hermanator’s comments were stupid. 

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1 hour ago, Blotto said:

People overdosed shortly after purchasing drugs from Silk Road.

I think this is a weak argument.  silk road was a marketplace; nothing at all like ulbricht meeting someone in a parking lot and selling them drugs.  
 

and he may have personally sold lots of drugs.  I just think that ascribing an overdose death to ulbricht simply because the drugs were sold by a third-party on a marketplace he happened to build is pretty flimsy. 

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3 minutes ago, futureman said:

I think this is a weak argument.  silk road was a marketplace; nothing at all like ulbricht meeting someone in a parking lot and selling them drugs.  
 

and he may have personally sold lots of drugs.  I just think that ascribing an overdose death to ulbricht simply because the drugs were sold by a third-party on a marketplace he happened to build is pretty flimsy. 

He made money off of these sales, didn't he? Where would you draw the line if not there?

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1 minute ago, futureman said:

I think this is a weak argument.  silk road was a marketplace; nothing at all like ulbricht meeting someone in a parking lot and selling them drugs.  
 

and he may have personally sold lots of drugs.  I just think that ascribing an overdose death to ulbricht simply because the drugs were sold by a third-party on a marketplace he happened to build is pretty flimsy. 

Everyone has their own ethical framework. I acknowledged that in my post. Some people will only blame the user. Others will find fault with the person that established the marketplace. Regardless, RU would have to be a fucking moron to think no overdoses would occur after facilitating hundreds of thousands of illegal drug transactions. He was happy to collect those BTC though. 

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46 minutes ago, futureman said:

I think this is a weak argument.  silk road was a marketplace; nothing at all like ulbricht meeting someone in a parking lot and selling them drugs.  
 

and he may have personally sold lots of drugs.  I just think that ascribing an overdose death to ulbricht simply because the drugs were sold by a third-party on a marketplace he happened to build is pretty flimsy. 

He's more like the drug lord who doesn't make the product, smuggle it, distribute it or sells it himself. He just sets up a network for others to do it and then takes a cut of the profits. It's not like he's standing outside a school selling it to kids himself.

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50 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

He made money off of these sales, didn't he? Where would you draw the line if not there?

you're right that him getting a percentage of the sales is relevant.  I was kind of looking at it like craigslist.  craigslist is a marketplace and if someone hires a hitman on craiglist I don't think craigslist is liable in any way (are they?).  but craiglist also does not gain financially from any transactions so it's probably not a solid argument.

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14 minutes ago, futureman said:

you're right that him getting a percentage of the sales is relevant.  I was kind of looking at it like craigslist.  craigslist is a marketplace and if someone hires a hitman on craiglist I don't think craigslist is liable in any way (are they?).  but craiglist also does not gain financially from any transactions so it's probably not a solid argument.

Its a horrible analogy. Craigslist probably has a user clickthrough agreement that prohibits illegal activity, and makes some attempt at removing those types of listings. Silk Road was set up explicitly as a marketplace to encourage illegal activity because thats where the profit comes from. He would have to know that people would die as a result of the sale from heroin, etc... and he didnt give one fuck. Technically the Sacklers had no criminal liability for all the oxy deaths they profited from, but they are complete shitbags themselves. 

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6 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Its a horrible analogy. Craigslist probably has a user clickthrough agreement that prohibits illegal activity, and makes some attempt at removing those types of listings. Silk Road was set up explicitly as a marketplace to encourage illegal activity because thats where the profit comes from. He would have to know that people would die as a result of the sale from heroin, etc... and he didnt give one fuck. Technically the Sacklers had no criminal liability for all the oxy deaths they profited from, but they are complete shitbags themselves. 

Actually his defense of his charges was that he cared more about his customers than the government did. He said the users were going to get their drugs off the street from untrusting sellers will no recourse without his service. He was providing a marketplace where buyers could leave review of products, sellers ... much like Amazon etc would need to uphold their end of the bargain in order to more up the buyer recommendation/review rating setup in order to be able to sell more.  Poor product or a "bad batch" could put the seller out of business (have to start over under new alias etc).  He belived he was providing a safer place for people to buy drugs which IMO he was.

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1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Actually his defense of his charges was that he cared more about his customers than the government did. He said the users were going to get their drugs off the street from untrusting sellers will no recourse without his service. He was providing a marketplace where buyers could leave review of products, sellers ... much like Amazon etc would need to uphold their end of the bargain in order to more up the buyer recommendation/review rating setup in order to be able to sell more.  Poor product or a "bad batch" could put the seller out of business (have to start over under new alias etc).  He belived he was providing a safer place for people to buy drugs which IMO he was.

OK, so now explain the part where you could anonymously buy firearms or arrange for hitmen on the website. Plenty of criminals will invent excuses to justify their behavior, you dont have to believe them. he did it for the money. 

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3 minutes ago, Blotto said:

OK, so now explain the part where you could anonymously buy firearms or arrange for hitmen on the website. Plenty of criminals will invent excuses to justify their behavior, you dont have to believe them. he did it for the money. 

Firearm sales were only available for short period of time before being banned on site. Hitmen or such was never allowed.  Ohh and yeah of course he did it for the money...

Edited by MonkeyDoughnut
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27 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Firearm sales were only available for short period of time before being banned on site. Hitmen or such was never allowed.

I've certainly read that those services were available, but since I never accessed the site and verified it, I could be mistaken. Still, I have seen screenshots were people were advertising credit card numbers, SSN's,  forged documents, malware etc... He knew people were getting fucked over from the sale of shit on his website, and he had zero issue with it. He's a criminal. And there was certainly a services section, so who knows what was available even if sporadically. I'm sure as fuck not taking his word for it. 

Edited by Blotto
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2 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

I ascribe blame primarily to addicts and secondarily to ultimate facilitators, which would include cartels and principals of networks  like the one RU set up. I wasn’t aware there were overdose deaths directly tied to SR but that’s completely understandable. Regardless, I’m the antithesis of a RU super fan, and Hermanator’s comments were stupid. 

Wait wait wait, so a website that's the last leg of delivery for cartels and drug lab networks ISN'T part of that network in your mind?

That's about as inspired as arguing that pipelines and refineries aren't part of the oil and gas industry, a new high score for you

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This thread was perfect. Of course it's Rex Kramer and Futureman, 2 beacons of morality, who took issue with my denouncement of glorifying this criminal and attempted murderer. 

They couldn't have illustrated my point to perfection any better if they tried.

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2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

This thread was perfect. Of course it's Rex Kramer and Futureman, 2 beacons of morality, who took issue with my denouncement of glorifying this criminal and attempted murderer. 

They couldn't have illustrated my point to perfection any better if they tried.

Emotionally making shit up again. I didn’t take issue with your denouncement. I agreed with it. I took issue with your insistence on people who disagreed with you being a symptom of the political times. I also took issue with you saying Sark would regret letting Casey Thompson walk in favor of Quinn. I take issue with YOU. 

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Wait wait wait, so a website that's the last leg of delivery for cartels and drug lab networks ISN'T part of that network in your mind?

That's about as inspired as arguing that pipelines and refineries aren't part of the oil and gas industry, a new high score for you

First paragraph, are you seriously fucking retarded?  Reread what I wrote again, you serious retard. 

Second paragraph, again, I never said that. You disingenuous smarmy cunt. 

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22 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

This thread was perfect. Of course it's Rex Kramer and Futureman, 2 beacons of morality, who took issue with my denouncement of glorifying this criminal and attempted murderer. 

They couldn't have illustrated my point to perfection any better if they tried.

it’s not what you said it’s how you said it.  you’re a ridiculous moron.  plenty of people have voiced opposition to pardoning him.

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