Formula 1 2021

[RiverwalkMiner 247]

I remember watching Monaco on Wide World of Sports as a kid, but then in the 90's-2000's, it felt very snobby, elitest and too technical.

For me it started when COTS was built, and seeing Riccardo's love of Texas. But I really flipped watching Drive to Survive on Netflix. That brought me 180 and taught me things you don't see on the telecast.

My dad was a huge Schumacher fan and had his home office fully decked out in Ferrari merch. He just passed away this Christmas, and I didn't get a chance to get him to COTA. I wish I had gotten back into earlier. Maybe Daniel will get a shoey for my dad this year. 

[pops 6980]

2 hours ago, RiverwalkMiner said:

But I really flipped watching Drive to Survive on Netflix. That brought me 180 and taught me things you don't see on the telecast.

This. If you just don't get F1 and want to give it a chance, watch drive to survive. If that doesn't get you sucked in then F1 will probably never be your thing. 

[wood 11225]

Yeah, there's lots of overtaking, and then there's quality overtaking. NASCAR has a massive amount of overtaking, but very few of those passes are compelling at all. F1 has less overtaking than NASCAR, but far more than it had pre-DRS. Just like most passes in NASCAR, even with the increased overtaking numbers, almost all F1 DRS passes are utterly uncompelling (example: a line of cars goes by a guy who gets caught out of the draft, producing numerous 'passes' in a matter of seconds). Increasing the overtaking numbers hasn't really helped the show in terms of creating more frequent quality passing moves, just as NASCAR isn't inherently better because there's more passing there. In fact, in F1, increasing passing numbers has probably deprived us of some great battles that have instead, sadly, ended in easy DRS passes of sitting duck leading cars.

tl;dr I'll take quality over quantity any day. Neither series has a significant advantage in terms of quality overtaking, from what I can see, and the type of racing in F1 is far more interesting and compelling for me ... and I was a lifelong NASCAR fan into my 30s.

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by wood

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

I agree with quality over quantity, and while I am MUCH more accepting of DRS than wood is, man, just imagine some of these tracks WITHOUT DRS. We might have like 4 overtakes at Monza, total.

Hell, Sainz was a shitload faster than Gasly was last year at Monza and still couldn’t get it done with DRS because of these cars. Don’t get me wrong, the Gasly win was awesome, but Carlos was in faster machinery and is a more talented pilot; he couldn’t pass because of physics, really.

[wood 11225]

Fix the cars and the tracks will be racy AF. DRS has just allowed them to not fix the cars and to then act like they've done something to solve the problem when they haven't at all. Hopefully the simpler, more ground-effect heavy rules & smaller floors will help. Actually enforcing track limits rules would help as well. It's esp crazy that a defending car can leave the track and still keep its position, while an overtaking car that leaves the track has to give the position back. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by wood

[utee94 15798]

6 hours ago, wood said:

Fix the cars and the tracks will be racy AF. DRS has just allowed them to not fix the cars and to then act like they've done something to solve the problem when they haven't at all. Hopefully the simpler, more ground-effect heavy rules & smaller floors will help. Actually enforcing track limits rules would help as well. It's esp crazy that a defending car can leave the track and still keep its position, while an overtaking car that leaves the track has to give the position back. 

Yeah this part really bothers me too.

[ChickenSandwich 9824]

8 hours ago, wood said:

Fix the cars and the tracks will be racy AF. DRS has just allowed them to not fix the cars and to then act like they've done something to solve the problem when they haven't at all. Hopefully the simpler, more ground-effect heavy rules & smaller floors will help. Actually enforcing track limits rules would help as well. It's esp crazy that a defending car can leave the track and still keep its position, while an overtaking car that leaves the track has to give the position back. 

I do like the Indy solution of push to pass. Put that in the drivers hand. Adds another element to the race. 
 

F1 bogs down on the one stop races IMO. Not enough strategy variety to make up for the lack of quality passing and it’s very much a parade unless there is mechanical failure. 

[wood 11225]

51 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I do like the Indy solution of push to pass. Put that in the drivers hand. Adds another element to the race. 
 

F1 bogs down on the one stop races IMO. Not enough strategy variety to make up for the lack of quality passing and it’s very much a parade unless there is mechanical failure. 

Yep. The tire rules are a mess in F1. And DRS would be fine imho if the drivers could all use it, maybe x number of times per lap, or whatever.

[PGFrog 25]

Finally got around to watching the Letterman interview with Hamilton and daughter asked a good question.  

One of Lewis' strengths seems to be his ability to manage the car, specifically the tires better than other drivers.  How much of this is from his early years carting when he and his Father were operating on a shoe string budget opposed to his competitors?

We could be way off on this, but curious about thoughts.

 

[wood 11225]

31 minutes ago, PGFrog said:

Finally got around to watching the Letterman interview with Hamilton and daughter asked a good question.  

One of Lewis' strengths seems to be his ability to manage the car, specifically the tires better than other drivers.  How much of this is from his early years carting when he and his Father were operating on a shoe string budget opposed to his competitors?

We could be way off on this, but curious about thoughts.

From what I've read, Lewis's tire management is something he's worked on in the latter stages of his career and improved upon significantly in that time. Earlier in his F1 career, tire management wasn't always a strength for him, and was often cited as a weakness. Not so now.

Re: his car management and and race management, Lewis is very good. That's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most with Alonso's return. His ability to manage a race while racing is remarkable - from the tiniest details to the biggest  picture of race strategy, car performance, etc.

Edited January 16, 2021 by wood

[wood 11225]

Why hasn't Hamilton signed a new Mercedes deal yet? There's a few million reasons https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/18/why-hasnt-hamilton-signed-a-new-mercedes-deal-yet-theres-a-few-million-reasons/

Quote

Back in October a source with knowledge of the situation told RaceFans that the two were 300% apart – adding that Mercedes boss Ola Källenius refused to budge above $20 million (£14.7m) for driver services simply as the oft-stated objective is for the team to be a profit- and not a cost-centre; Hamilton was then said to be pushing for $60m plus perks. A spokesperson denied this to be the case, but the ‘gap’ is sufficient to seriously hit profits.

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by wood

[52-80 19142]

with 2x bottas on the team , they could stlil win WCC easily

[Dutch 4465]

On 1/15/2021 at 11:15 AM, RiverwalkMiner said:

But I really flipped watching Drive to Survive on Netflix. That brought me 180 and taught me things you don't see on the telecast.

 

On 1/15/2021 at 1:52 PM, pops said:

This. If you just don't get F1 and want to give it a chance, watch drive to survive. If that doesn't get you sucked in then F1 will probably never be your thing. 

This is me.  All I knew of F1 was Schumacher killed it with Ferrari in the early 00s and Top Gear would have drivers (usually the WDC) on for an interview and a lap.  Then I happened across DtS last spring.  It totally sucked me in, and I haven't missed a race weekend since. When I cancelled uVerse last summer and was still researching what streaming service to go with, I even subscribed to F1TV for a month last year so I wouldn't miss the British, German, and Hungarian GP.  Still have a lot to learn about the sport, but I'm hooked.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Dutch

[wood 11225]

Don't rely too much on "Drive to Survive' for anything factual, or much at all approaching reality in the paddock. Buxton is as full of shit as they come, and will apparently say just about anything for money or ratings. Think of him as sort of a tiny, skinny-jeans-wearing, F1 version of Ketch.

[Tyrone Krivacs 50]

On 1/15/2021 at 7:46 AM, Steamboat1874 said:

That is great and all but I like to watch a race and not a parade as F1 seems to be.

Pretty sure NASCAR has more passing (overtaking) and lead changes in one race than F1 has all year.

Not knocking it, just do not understand the allure.

 

 

On 1/15/2021 at 7:57 AM, utee94 said:

Then I guess this thread isn't for you?

NASCAR has what what I call "fake passing."  if you're on a massive oval going 200 mph with a line of cars behind you, and someone in that line moves out and breaks your draft, and the other line of cars immediately next to you also going 200 mph all of a sudden starts passing you in great numbers, there's nothing interesting to me about that "pass."  It's just a matter of physics.  That doesn't entertain me.

But, I'm not headed over to the NASCAR thread to tell fans of those races that there's no allure to the things they like.

Several of us have explained why we enjoy it.  You don't get it.  That's fine.  Not sure what else you really need to say about your opinion.  

 

I'm 56 years old so y'all probably classify me as old and I will probably get bashed but IDGAF. I went to the Dallas F1 race in 84. I watched F1 from 84 until I lost interest. I was a Piquet fan and my buddy was a Senna fan and when Senna died, that was pretty much it for me. I was a casual NASCAR fan from 82-96 until TMS opened. Season ticket holder ever since.  Became interested again in F1 when COTA was being built. Went to the first two F1 races and have been to 4-5 F1 races total at COTA and watch every race on TV. I go to NHRA, IndyCar, IMSA, WOO, local dirt tracks. That being said, the way y'all reacted to this post was such stereotypical F1 fan response. Steamboat1874 posted "Not knocking it, just do not understand the allure." and immediately it was turned into "But, I'm not headed over to the NASCAR thread to tell fans of those races that there's no allure to the things they like."

Okay I feel better

 

 

 

[utee94 15798]

33 minutes ago, Jim Krivacs said:

 

I'm 56 years old so y'all probably classify me as old and I will probably get bashed but IDGAF. I went to the Dallas F1 race in 84. I watched F1 from 84 until I lost interest. I was a Piquet fan and my buddy was a Senna fan and when Senna died, that was pretty much it for me. I was a casual NASCAR fan from 82-96 until TMS opened. Season ticket holder ever since.  Became interested again in F1 when COTA was being built. Went to the first two F1 races and have been to 4-5 F1 races total at COTA and watch every race on TV. I go to NHRA, IndyCar, IMSA, WOO, local dirt tracks. That being said, the way y'all reacted to this post was such stereotypical F1 fan response. Steamboat1874 posted "Not knocking it, just do not understand the allure." and immediately it was turned into "But, I'm not headed over to the NASCAR thread to tell fans of those races that there's no allure to the things they like."

Okay I feel better

 

 

 

Huh?  This is a really strange take.

He said it once.

Some of us explained what we liked about the sport.

Then he said the same thing again, which was redundant and unnecessary.  And then and only then, did I respond and explain why I don't find NASCAR compelling.  I did this on the F1 thread, not the NASCAR thread.  And he's the one that brought up NASCAR as a comparison, not me or anyone else.  My response was reasoned and reasonable.

I wasn't attacking when I said this thread isn't for him-- I meant it sincerely.  If he doesn't understand the allure, and he's already stated it once, why stick around and try to belabor a point that the fans of F1 obviously don't agree with?

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by utee94

[wood 11225]

1 hour ago, Jim Krivacs said:

 

I'm 56 years old so y'all probably classify me as old and I will probably get bashed but IDGAF. I went to the Dallas F1 race in 84. I watched F1 from 84 until I lost interest. I was a Piquet fan and my buddy was a Senna fan and when Senna died, that was pretty much it for me. I was a casual NASCAR fan from 82-96 until TMS opened. Season ticket holder ever since.  Became interested again in F1 when COTA was being built. Went to the first two F1 races and have been to 4-5 F1 races total at COTA and watch every race on TV. I go to NHRA, IndyCar, IMSA, WOO, local dirt tracks. That being said, the way y'all reacted to this post was such stereotypical F1 fan response. Steamboat1874 posted "Not knocking it, just do not understand the allure." and immediately it was turned into "But, I'm not headed over to the NASCAR thread to tell fans of those races that there's no allure to the things they like."

Okay I feel better

I'm closer to 56 than 55, as well, and was a huge NASCAR fan most of my life. Got the TMS season tickets when it opened, too, which ironically led me to F1 indirectly. As part of the season ticket package, I got IRL tickets. When I saw how much faster than NASCAR even just the crappy IRL cars were at TMS, and how much wheel to wheel racing they produced at those insane speeds, it immediately opened my eyes to major series open wheel racing and in general caused me to start broadening my motorsport horizons, leading me to F1 and much, much more. I've been to several NASCAR races, and more short dirt and asphalt sprint/mod/stock races across 50 years than I can even begin to count. At my first ever race in 1970, at Riverside in West Memphis when I was 5, I watched Sammy Swindell race sprint cars as a teenager against the legend Hooker Hood. Rising star Alvin Gatlin was killed hitting the wall right in front of us. Been to probably 20+ ALMS/IMSA/WEC races, several IndyCar races, the 500, V8SC, PWC, 24H Series, 7 MotoGP races, 10 F1 GPs, Lucas Oil Drag Boats, AMA Supercross, and a lot more. There's a huge world of motorsport out there.

The local dirt tracks, WOO, ASCS, mods, etc are probably the best racing on the planet, in terms of pure racing action, and esp in terms of bang for the buck.

Re: the reaction to Steamboat's post being negative ... well, get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. He came in pretty much saying F1 sucked and the sheer numbers of (99.9% dime a dozen, frankly) passes in NASCAR made it better based on that alone. Then he qualified it by saying "not knocking it", which is pretty much exactly what he was doing. Our reaction was pretty got damn even handed if not outright gracious, esp for the Surl, and I absolutely believe that you could go back through several years of NASCAR threads, if not the entirety of their existence on the Surl and TOS, and not find one instance of F1 guys going into them to tell them they 'don't get the allure'. Obviously the reverse is not true, but it doesn't happen too often, either.

Edited January 19, 2021 by wood

[Tyrone Krivacs 50]

Exactly what I expected, carry on F1 snobs, I will go back to lurking.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Tried to find an appropriate gif to relay my snobbish disagreement.

[wood 11225]

3 minutes ago, Jim Krivacs said:

Exactly what I expected, carry on F1 snobs, I will go back to lurking.

OK bitchass troll. I'll bite. How, exactly, did we respond inappropriately? What would you suggest we do? How do you think the NASCAR guys woulda responded had one of us gone over into their thread talking the same kinda noise? I doubt they would have been so gracious. 

[UnivTex34 1763]

Lol, here is your surly response...

 

fuck off, this is the least surly thread. 
 

 

 

[utee94 15798]

 

7 minutes ago, Jim Krivacs said:

...I will go back to lurking.

[wood 11225]

OBTW, bit o' good news.

Former IndyCar Champion Alex Zanardi Is Reportedly Speaking Again http://a.msn.com/08/en-us/BB1cOoig?ocid=st

[Steamboat1874 4048]

10 hours ago, wood said:

I'm closer to 56 than 55, as well, and was a huge NASCAR fan most of my life. Got the TMS season tickets when it opened, too, which ironically led me to F1 indirectly. As part of the season ticket package, I got IRL tickets. When I saw how much faster than NASCAR even just the crappy IRL cars were at TMS, and how much wheel to wheel racing they produced at those insane speeds, it immediately opened my eyes to major series open wheel racing and in general caused me to start broadening my motorsport horizons, leading me to F1 and much, much more. I've been to several NASCAR races, and more short dirt and asphalt sprint/mod/stock races across 50 years than I can even begin to count. At my first ever race in 1970, at Riverside in West Memphis when I was 5, I watched Sammy Swindell race sprint cars as a teenager against the legend Hooker Hood. Rising star Alvin Gatlin was killed hitting the wall right in front of us. Been to probably 20+ ALMS/IMSA/WEC races, several IndyCar races, the 500, V8SC, PWC, 24H Series, 7 MotoGP races, 10 F1 GPs, Lucas Oil Drag Boats, AMA Supercross, and a lot more. There's a huge world of motorsport out there.

The local dirt tracks, WOO, ASCS, mods, etc are probably the best racing on the planet, in terms of pure racing action, and esp in terms of bang for the buck.

Re: the reaction to Steamboat's post being negative ... well, get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. He came in pretty much saying F1 sucked and the sheer numbers of (99.9% dime a dozen, frankly) passes in NASCAR made it better based on that alone. Then he qualified it by saying "not knocking it", which is pretty much exactly what he was doing. Our reaction was pretty got damn even handed if not outright gracious, esp for the Surl, and I absolutely believe that you could go back through several years of NASCAR threads, if not the entirety of their existence on the Surl and TOS, and not find one instance of F1 guys going into them to tell them they 'don't get the allure'. Obviously the reverse is not true, but it doesn't happen too often, either.

By the way fuck you.

You are putting way too much into what I was asking and saying. Pretty sure nowhere in my posts did I say F1 sucks.

[Lidig8r 1870]

Any idea when we start to see the new livery releases?

Interested to see how Aston Martin incorporates  British Racing Green into their design.

[wood 11225]

3 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

By the way fuck you.

You are putting way too much into what I was asking and saying. Pretty sure nowhere in my posts did I say F1 sucks.

Meh. Go fuck yourself.

[Dutch 4465]

1 hour ago, Lidig8r said:

Any idea when we start to see the new livery releases?

Interested to see how Aston Martin incorporates  British Racing Green into their design.

Aston will release in "March" and Alpine in "February." All the other teams are still TBD.

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/modern/2021/1/f1-car-launches-2021/

[utee94 15798]

March seems pretty late, traditionally don't they all usually release between Feb 15th and Feb 25th or so?

 

[wood 11225]

35 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Aston will release in "March" and Alpine in "February." All the other teams are still TBD.

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/modern/2021/1/f1-car-launches-2021/

I saw a leak of the Alpine in-season livery and colors a few minutes ago:

[wood 11225]

Some of the teams will apparently push back their launches due to the season start being delayed, thus delaying winter testing.

Edited January 19, 2021 by wood

[utee94 15798]

11 minutes ago, wood said:

Some of the teams will apparently push back their launches due to the season start being delayed, thus delaying winter testing.

Makes sense, but...

 

 

 

 

[wood 11225]

Posted that A-Team pic on Autosport. Didn't take em long...

[utee94 15798]

I guess I'm gonna have to buy a Renault ballcap to go with my Kimoa shades and support Fred in style.

 

[wood 11225]

Alfa: 2/22 ... https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alfa-romeo-launch-date-c41-2021/5135252/

[texas08 1599]

[wood 11225]

Hamilton 'isn't telling me whether he will re-sign for Mercedes' - Domenicali https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/21/hamilton-isnt-telling-me-whether-he-will-re-sign-for-mercedes-domenicali/ 

Domenicali: F1 to adopt ‘flexible’ approach to 2021 calendar  https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/president-2021-f1-calendar-domenicali/5139672/

Domenicali: F1 may shorten future calendars and rotate races https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/20/domenicali-f1-may-shorten-future-calendars-and-rotate-races/ 

Edited January 21, 2021 by wood

[wood 11225]

Red Bull's Honda engine plan rests on rules freeze vote next week https://www.racefans.net/2021/01/21/red-bulls-honda-engine-plan-rests-on-rules-freeze-vote-next-week/

[wood 11225]

Wolff says "curveballs" delaying Hamilton's new contract https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-contract-mercedes-curveballs-wolff/5189353/

[utee94 15798]

1 hour ago, wood said:

Wolff says "curveballs" delaying Hamilton's new contract https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-contract-mercedes-curveballs-wolff/5189353/

How would he know?  Do they even have curveballs in cricket???? 

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

The current curveballs include:

Lewis training in the mountains everyday in the USA.

Toto getting COVID and quarantining.

[wood 11225]

OPINION: F1 might be on the brink of the reset it needs https://racer.com/2021/01/25/opinion-f1-might-be-on-the-brink-of-the-reset-it-needs/

De Niro and Boyega to star in Netflix F1 film https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154743/de-niro-and-boyega-to-star-in-netflix-f1-film

 

[PittsburghTiger 6174]

I think Russell was one of those curveballs.

[Dutch 4465]

Was wondering that, too.  If Toto decides Lewis' asking price is too high, would Merc go back to him and say "you know that kid who missed pole by 0.027 and would have won the Sakhir GP if the team hadn't shit down its leg... on his second day in the car... we're good with him. Peace."

Edited January 27, 2021 by Dutch

[Dutch 4465]

James describing the 2021 rule changes. 

 

[Prepuce of Doom 21052]

The Internet seems to be having a great deal of fun at Seb's expense today. 

Prince William is also apparently trending due to the resemblance. 

 

[wood 11225]

1 hour ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

The Internet seems to be having a great deal of fun at Seb's expense today. 

Prince William is also apparently trending due to the resemblance. 

Yep.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by wood

[wood 11225]

So, assclown Buxton has his own youtube channel now and has removed "Digital Presenter @F1" from his Twitter bio. His LinkedIn profile shows him “open to work” and currently looking for a job.

 

 

[utee94 15798]

Man you really hate Will don't you?

 

[Dutch 4465]

Another reveal is set; McLaren on February 15.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mclaren-set-date-to-unveil-2021-f1-car-the-mcl35m.6j7RapmJ9aluCQPXkH1iEo.html

[wood 11225]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

Man you really hate Will don't you?

 

Just don't like him or his work at all, esp his "reporting", or whatever it should be called, on the Netflix show. He's the used car salesman of the paddock ... a paddock that boasts Eddie Jordan. I also know a bit about how he treated his ex Emma & his newborn daughter when he joined the SPEED broadcast. He also actually took credit for an idea I gave him once, through friends. Almost forgot about that one. I don't hate him, but he's definitely a POS.