Formula 1 2021

[pops 6980]

Lewis is a wizard. 

[G650 14244]

Well with Aston Martin back in the game full time I actually decided to watch a race for the first time in awhile. Fairly entertaining throughout I have to say.

[Eugene11 379]

9 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Mazepin already crashes, three corners in.

Fuck that guy and fuck haas for keeping him after that shit this off season. I’d like to pull for haas but they are making it hard. That was fun to watch along with his practices and qualy 

[Eugene11 379]

9 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

They need to enforce the track dimensions.

It seems like it would be stupid simple to just say keep one wheel on the white line. Otherwise you’re out of bounds. 

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

3 minutes ago, Eugene11 said:

Fuck that guy and fuck haas for keeping him after that shit this off season. I’d like to pull for haas but they are making it hard. That was fun to watch along with his practices and qualy 

I reckon he's there a lot for the $$$$ he brought with him.

[pops 6980]

37 minutes ago, Eugene11 said:

Fuck that guy and fuck haas for keeping him after that shit this off season. I’d like to pull for haas but they are making it hard. That was fun to watch along with his practices and qualy 

 

[elfenix 34225]

So Vettel wasn't at fault?  Okay, so why does Seb apologize to Ocon and why does Seb get the penalty is he wasn't at fault?

No, dumbass. Vettel on the radio always bitches about every other driver and is god's gift to motorsports

[Stringer 1438]

Watched F1: DTS seasons 1 and 2 last March and season 3 last week.  Thought I would give an actual race a try and enjoyed it.  My 4 year old daughter sat and watched for 45 minutes, which is a record for sitting still if it's not Bluey or PJ Masks.   

I'll stick around for awhile and pepper you pros with dumb questions and terrible noob sports points, if that works for you.  

[Fastbreak 3984]

Looking back on it, Red Bull shouldn’t have given back the track position. There was clear air and Max could have made up 5 seconds. It would have also been ballsy for the stewards to even give the penalty. 

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

If you guys do have F1TV, the F2 races are worth watching. The cars are spec, though they can tune some things, and some teams are better than others.

Some drivers to watch this year:

Oscar Piastri - Prema - Part of Alpine driver academy, won F3 last year. Is an Aussie, and Mark Webber is his manager. He’s really good.

Guanyu Zhou - UNI Virtuosi - Chinese, part of the Alpine driver academy. 3rd year in F2.

Liam Lawson - Hitech - New Zealander. Part of Red Bull academy. First year in F2.

Jüri Vips - Hitech- Estonian. Part of Red Bull academy. First full year in F2.

Robert Shwartzman - Prema- Russian. 2019 F3 champ. Part of Ferrari driver academy. Second year in F2. Had a great first half of the F2 season last year before fading in the second half, allowing Mick Schumacher to claim the title.

Marcus Armstrong - DAMS - New Zealander. Part of Ferrari driver academy. Second year in F2.

Christian Lundgaard - ART - Danish. Second year in F2. Part of Alpine driver academy.

Théo Pourchaire - ART - French. Finished second in F3 last year to Piastri.

[wood 11225]

12 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

They need to enforce the track dimensions.

Heh. It's funny you should mention that ...

[wood 11225]

11 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

Race control told Mercedes to stop about midrace (probably RB and others too), and that they would get a black/white then a penalty if they continued to do it.

 

 

11 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Yup, I caught that too. It's just too random.

They need to be serious about enforcing this the entire race.

Not random. They warned Merc to stop doing it right after the RBR pit wall told Max to do it since Lewis was doing it to protect his cushion. I want to think of that as merely utter incompetence, but make of it what you will.

As I've been saying for years, F1 simply refuses to enforce track limits correctly and consistently, and now they've made yet another mess because of it. Almost every other series not named IMSA enforces the limits with almost zero issue, but F1 cannot even begin to get their heads around it. It's amazing.

And the track limit is the white fucking line, not the got damn kerbs. The kerbs aren't even part of the track. They are outside the track.

[wood 11225]

2 hours ago, Stringer said:

Watched F1: DTS seasons 1 and 2 last March and season 3 last week.  Thought I would give an actual race a try and enjoyed it.  My 4 year old daughter sat and watched for 45 minutes, which is a record for sitting still if it's not Bluey or PJ Masks.   

I'll stick around for awhile and pepper you pros with dumb questions and terrible noob sports points, if that works for you.  

Fire away, noob.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Looking back on it, Red Bull shouldn’t have given back the track position. There was clear air and Max could have made up 5 seconds. It would have also been ballsy for the stewards to even give the penalty. 

Not really. There is definitely a precedent.

Look at this from 2008.

Hamilton got a 25 second penalty (would have been a drive thru but the race was over, so that’s why the time is odd) for the incident at 1:50, because it was determined that he didn’t give the position back up for long enough. Kimi later crashed out, and Hamilton finished 3rd retroactively. This even led to the FIA stating that you had to wait one corner after giving a position back before making another overtake attempt.

This penalty was pretty dang harsh. It’s funny seeing these Niki Lauda comments, cause you could repeat them after any race and they’d still be true:

“Former world champion Niki Lauda said that he did "not understand this completely wrong decision", adding "It's unbelievable how the best driver in yesterday's race makes no mistakes and only gets six points". He called for the formation of permanent race stewards, instead of the temporary steward system currently in place. He called it "the worst judgement in the history of F1", saying, "It's absolutely unacceptable when three [stewards] influence the championship like this". Three-time world champion Jackie Stewart said that "F1 attracts the largest capital investment in sport, but it's being overseen by people who are not doing it full-time and we get inconsistent decisions".

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Not random. They warned Merc to stop doing it right after the RBR pit wall told Max to do it since Lewis was doing it to protect his cushion. I want to think of that as merely utter incompetence, but make of it what you will.
As I've been saying for years, F1 simply refuses to enforce track limits correctly and consistently, and now they've made yet another mess because of it. Almost every other series not named IMSA enforces the limits with almost zero issue, but F1 cannot even begin to get their heads around it. It's amazing.
And the track limit is the white fucking line, not the got damn kerbs. The kerbs aren't even part of the track. They are outside the track.

Hi.

[wood 11225]

8 hours ago, PGFrog said:

So Vettel wasn't at fault?  Okay, so why does Seb apologize to Ocon and why does Seb get the penalty is he wasn't at fault?

Yes. It was Vettel all the way. Then he complained about Ocon 'changing lines' under braking, when Ocon was actually straight as an arrow on the outside until turn in. I never believed Vettel was as good as his hype when he was winning at RBR, but Jebus, the guy has completely lost the plot

[wood 11225]

2 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Hi.

 

 

 

 

IndyCar for a joke of a race at COTA (one-off iirc, and only at that turn) and NASCAR are your defenses? Why not throw in the IMSA 'no track limits' weekend at COTA as well lol. Hell, even though I mentioned them above in the negative, they aren't that bad most of the time. Even IMSA typically enforces limits. WEC has no problem with it. Neither do their drivers, sometimes on the same tracks as F1. Same with MotoGP, who's gone to a sensor system that's very specific and consistent. And F1 drivers manage just fine as well when given a clear directive to stay within actual track limits. So why not make them adhere to the rules?

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

IndyCar for a joke of a race at COTA (one-off iirc, and only at that turn) and NASCAR are your defenses? Why not throw in the IMSA 'no track limits' weekend at COTA as well lol. Hell, even though I mentioned them above in the negative, they aren't that bad most of the time. Even IMSA typically enforces limits. WEC has no problem with it. Neither do their drivers, sometimes on the same tracks as F1. Same with MotoGP, who's gone to a sensor system that's very specific and consistent. And F1 drivers manage just fine as well when given a clear directive to stay within actual track limits. So why not make them adhere to the rules?

Just saying, it’s not as if F1 is the only one. It was only at one corner this weekend, too, which is what F1 typically does, track depending (maybe 2 or 3 in some cases).

It just doesn’t really bother me that much.

Edit: I think a lot of the consternation about this recently is because Michael Masi is a shit race director. Yes, this stuff happened sometimes when Charlie was the race director, but I think that Masi just doesn’t do a good job at conveying and clarifying what he actually means. They seem to miss a lot of little details in the race notes and in the drivers’ meetings, then *issue occurs*, and people are up in arms. Rinse and repeat.

[wood 11225]

20 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Just saying, it’s not as if F1 is the only one. It was only at one corner this weekend, too, which is what F1 typically does, track depending (maybe 2 or 3 in some cases).

It just doesn’t really bother me that much.

I never said it was only F1. It's just that F1, as supposedly the 'pinnacle of motorsport' should be setting a proper standard rather than looking like idiots compared to supposedly 'lesser' series who have zero problem enforcing their track limits strictly and consistently, on every turn.

And being on one turn doesn't help. It was a dangerous joke when IndyCar allowed cars to run crazy wide at 19 at COTA, and it's just as much of a joke when F1 allows it at Turn x or y or z at different tracks. And the way they constantly change shit up between sessions, or even mid-session now, or say it's fine to leave the track when you aren't overtaking but it's forbidden when you are overtaking .... just exposes them as a complete fucking clown show.

Edited March 29, 2021 by wood

[52-80 19147]

1.  Its amazing that Max gave up that position at all.  Pretty much instantly after the radio instruction (which he regretted after the race).  You know a younger Max wouldve ignored it.  That said I still hate the smug fucker.

 

2.  Like water "seeking its own level", the cars find a way.  If everyone cuts the same corner the same way, all the time, to such an extent that it's a point of pre-race discussion, they should then modify the track to suit. 

[Kdub 498]

On the track limits. They need to be consistent. But it's pretty clear, you can not pass another vehicle while outside of track limits, they'll make you give the place back. That's always been enforced. Red Bull has no standing. And besides fuck Max, great driver, monster douche.

[Goofyboy 3269]

I’m all for ignoring track limits until they tell you to stop. I’d use every thing possible to my advantage. If the stewards don’t want people going over the white lines, it shouldn’t ever be a question. Set the rule - 3 times over or 5 times or something that allows for fuckups and move on.

[Goofyboy 3269]

I’m all for ignoring track limits until they tell you to stop. I’d use every thing possible to my advantage. If the stewards don’t want people going over the white lines, it shouldn’t ever be a question. Set the rule - 3 times over or 5 times or something that allows for fuckups and move on.

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

7 hours ago, wood said:

 

Not random. They warned Merc to stop doing it right after the RBR pit wall told Max to do it since Lewis was doing it to protect his cushion. I want to think of that as merely utter incompetence, but make of it what you will.

As I've been saying for years, F1 simply refuses to enforce track limits correctly and consistently, and now they've made yet another mess because of it. Almost every other series not named IMSA enforces the limits with almost zero issue, but F1 cannot even begin to get their heads around it. It's amazing.

And the track limit is the white fucking line, not the got damn kerbs. The kerbs aren't even part of the track. They are outside the track.

Perhaps random was the wrong word. If someone is warned after five laps doing it they have gained an advantage toward their speed/track position five times. And then, when someone uses that same line the other guy used, but did it in the execution of a pass, it's not allowed at all.

I have been clear, well into last season, about my views on track limits. Don't go off the track. That's it. I think a lot of us are agreeing but, just using different words to say much the same thing. I just want there to be no confusion, or open to interpretation, make it a rule and adhere to that rule.

Also, race stewards MUST be a permanent position. Formula 1's revenue was over $2,000,000,000 in 2019. They can afford to pay three guys to do the job.

[PGFrog 25]

11 hours ago, elfenix said:

16 hours ago, PGFrog said:

So Vettel wasn't at fault?  Okay, so why does Seb apologize to Ocon and why does Seb get the penalty is he wasn't at fault?

No, dumbass. Vettel on the radio always bitches about every other driver and is god's gift to motorsports

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

How about this?

Two tires off the track is a one-second penalty. Four tires off the track is a two-second penalty.

For every offense.

[wood 11225]

11 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Like water "seeking its own level", the cars find a way.  If everyone cuts the same corner the same way, all the time, to such an extent that it's a point of pre-race discussion, they should then modify the track to suit. 

Or just enforce the track limit. I'm all for modifying the tracks ... not to accommodate the driver's wishes, but to create an instant penalty for exceeding the limit. They're going out there because it's quicker. Period. Drive the track within it's limits, and then it's the same for everyone and everyone's within the rules.

[wood 11225]

7 hours ago, Kdub said:

On the track limits. They need to be consistent. But it's pretty clear, you can not pass another vehicle while outside of track limits, they'll make you give the place back. That's always been enforced. 

Yep. But what's really weird is enforcing the limit under overtaking, but not enforcing it when someone is going off track to go quicker - to increase or protect a lead, or to cut into someone else's lead. It's 'gaining a lasting advantage' every bit as much as it is when overtaking or defending.

It's also an incredible double standard that you can't go off when overtaking, but you can when defending. A car that goes off track when forced into a mistake while defending a position should be required to give up that spot every bit as much as the overtaking car would be if they went off while overtaking.

Enforce the limit for everyone, at every turn, whether overtaking, defending, or in clear air, all the time. Then everything is consistent and everyone knows what's expected of them all weekend and at every track. 

[wood 11225]

6 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

I’m all for ignoring track limits until they tell you to stop. I’d use every thing possible to my advantage. If the stewards don’t want people going over the white lines, it shouldn’t ever be a question. Set the rule - 3 times over or 5 times or something that allows for fuckups and move on.

The rules tell everyone what they're supposed to do, and they are very clear. It's the race directors that have been ignoring rules and applying their own solutions. And they don't work. 

It's not hard. There should be no new track limits discussion at every race weekend and from session to session. The rules are already there. Establish before the season starts that they will  be enforced and infractions will be penalized. Then people will stay on the fucking track.

[wood 11225]

6 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Perhaps random was the wrong word. If someone is warned after five laps doing it they have gained an advantage toward their speed/track position five times. And then, when someone uses that same line the other guy used, but did it in the execution of a pass, it's not allowed at all.

I have been clear, well into last season, about my views on track limits. Don't go off the track. That's it. I think a lot of us are agreeing but, just using different words to say much the same thing. I just want there to be no confusion, or open to interpretation, make it a rule and adhere to that rule.

Also, race stewards MUST be a permanent position. Formula 1's revenue was over $2,000,000,000 in 2019. They can afford to pay three guys to do the job.

100% agree. They should have permanent, trained, traveling race stewards who understand consistent application of the rules, and whose performance will be reviewed. Having all these different stewards all the time is just asking for exactly what we're getting.

Also re: your 1st paragraph, see my posts above re: the insanely inconsistent application we've seen for years and years. It's unreal.

[wood 11225]

3 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

How about this?

Two tires off the track is a one-second penalty. Four tires off the track is a two-second penalty.

For every offense.

Sure. All kinds of good ways have been proposed to enforce the limit. The problem is that they just don't do it. Once they start doing it consistently (if ever), the form of the penalty won't matter too much, because you'll hardly ever see anyone actually exceed the limit. 

If the FIA hadn't mandated paved runoffs, we wouldn't even have this problem, because the tracks themselves would impose an instant penalty for going off. People never used to go off, because it was always slower and they risked crashing and ruining their weekend or killing themselves. Now they hardly even lift in myriad places they can go off throughout the calendar, because the runoff doesn't penalize them and nobody else does, either.

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

50 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep. But what's really weird is enforcing the limit under overtaking, but not enforcing it when someone is going off track to go quicker - to increase or protect a lead, or to cut into someone else's lead. It's 'gaining a lasting advantage' every bit as much as it is when overtaking or defending.

It's also an incredible double standard that you can't go off when overtaking, but you can when defending. A car that goes off track when forced into a mistake while defending a position should be required to give up that spot every bit as much as the overtaking car would be if they went off while overtaking.

Enforce the limit for everyone, at every turn, whether overtaking, defending, or in clear air, all the time. Then everything is consistent and everyone knows what's expected of them all weekend and at every track. 

And there is the rub.

[elfenix 34225]

6 hours ago, PGFrog said:

What the fuck is wrong with you?

$700 in diagnostics and best they can tell me:

 

but that's for the getting old thread

[wood 11225]

LOL. From Autosport ...

Quote

Don't know why people say the rule is unclear. Sometimes you can go off the track, and sometimes you can't, and sometimes when you can't you won't know but they'll tell you either you have and shouldn't or that you have and that's OK but you mustn't again, or that if you have and by coincidence there was another car there, then you can't even if you could have. What's silly about that?

 

[Huckleberry 32849]

wood is obviously completely correct about this. Why do they paint the white lines if they don't mean anything? I don't blame Hamilton for doing whatever he can get away with but it's ridiculous. And it's absolutely a scandal that as soon as Red Bull told Verstappen to also do it that they immediately began enforcing it and gave a warning to Mercedes halfway through the race.

If Hamilton gained just a tenth of a second each time he did that then he gained 2.9 seconds. That means Verstappen is attacking for the overtake around 5 laps earlier with better tires and more time to set it up. Again, I'm not upset with anyone except race control because track limits have become a joke.

[faps 806]

It definitely should be done via sensor like in GT racing. You get three warnings. Then penalized. You don't even need stewards for that.

[ChickenSandwich 9829]

All said it better than I could. 

[utee94 15808]

Finally finished just now.

Track limits-- yeah, that was a joke.  It's been discussed enough

Vettel-- Holy crap, he's really lost it.  I'd say he's reduced to the level of rookie mistakes, but the rookies weren't screwing up like that.  Well Mazepin self-owning on turn 3, but that's a little different.

Fred-- Sheesh.  I think he's snakebit at this point.  That looked so similar to his last couple seasons at McLaren, where the car just keeps crapping out on him.  Unfortunate.

Racing through the middle was fun.

Racing at the top, well, it was a Merc-RBR-Merc podium.  That doesn't excite me especially knowing this track wasn't particularly Merc-friendly.  It looks to me like more of the same but I'll be delighted if I'm wrong.

Ferrari... I'm going to wait a bit before deciding anything here.  It was kind of okay but less than I'd hoped.  It's entirely likely I have unrealistic expectations.  I am a Texas Longhorn fan, after all, that's kind of what we do.

 

 

[VABuckeye 2472]

The thing about the track limit at turn four is that it’s the one sector on the track where Hamilton had a time advantage over Verstappen.  Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

The thing about the track limit at turn four is that it’s the one sector on the track where Hamilton had a time advantage over Verstappen.  Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

Hamilton was also faster in S3.

[wood 11225]

3 hours ago, utee94 said:

Finally finished just now.

Track limits-- yeah, that was a joke.  It's been discussed enough

Vettel-- Holy crap, he's really lost it.  I'd say he's reduced to the level of rookie mistakes, but the rookies weren't screwing up like that.  Well Mazepin self-owning on turn 3, but that's a little different.

Fred-- Sheesh.  I think he's snakebit at this point.  That looked so similar to his last couple seasons at McLaren, where the car just keeps crapping out on him.  Unfortunate.

Racing through the middle was fun.

Racing at the top, well, it was a Merc-RBR-Merc podium.  That doesn't excite me especially knowing this track wasn't particularly Merc-friendly.  It looks to me like more of the same but I'll be delighted if I'm wrong.

Ferrari... I'm going to wait a bit before deciding anything here.  It was kind of okay but less than I'd hoped.  It's entirely likely I have unrealistic expectations.  I am a Texas Longhorn fan, after all, that's kind of what we do.

Re: Fred, it was a sandwich bag stuck in a brake duct that caused the brakes to overheat. Not a fault with the car. I noticed his brakes glowing a couple of laps before and told my kid. Next thing you know, he's out of the race with brake failure.

I do want them to be competitive this year, but I'm not too worried about it if they aren't. They're really gearing everything toward next year.

Edited March 30, 2021 by wood

[utee94 15808]

7 minutes ago, wood said:

Re: Fred, it was a sandwich bag stuck in a brake duct that caused the brakes to overheat. Not a fault with the car. I noticed his brakes glowing a couple of laps before and told my kid. Next thing you know, he's out of the race with brake failure.

Still snakebit bad luck.  So incredibly disappointing.  Not that he was excelling with that car, but he was at least hanging in there.

 

 

[wood 11225]

Just now, utee94 said:

Still snakebit bad luck.  So incredibly disappointing.  Not that he was excelling with that car, but he was at least hanging in there.

It was fun watching him destroy Ocon in Q though lol. 

[52-80 19147]

10 hours ago, faps said:

It definitely should be done via sensor like in GT racing. You get three warnings. Then penalized. You don't even need stewards for that.

geofencing via sensors which cuts their engine power like in video games

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

geofencing via sensors which cuts their engine power like in video games

Yep, people have suggested this for years. Instant penalty. Self-policing. Should be simple to implement and leaves race control & the stewards free to deal with more contentious incidents without distraction. Doesn't require anyone to monitor the corners. Doesn't drag gravel, etc onto the track. Provides FOM with another bit of info to display, might even encourage more people to watch follow the bad boys or the good boys.

Great deterrent. If they did this, it would instantly put an end to almost all track limits abuse. If it's slower to go off track, the drivers simply won't do it intentionally.

[wood 11225]

Using the geofencing idea, here's another good one from Autosport:

Quote

New idea (taken a bit from iRacing's penalty point system):
 
- Every off track results in a 1x. It doesn't matter when or where you do this. Outside the white lines = 1x. Only doing it for safety reasons (avoiding another car) gives you a free pass.
 - If you have 3x, you get a 5s penalty.
 - For every new 1x, you get another 5s penalty.
 
This makes track limits important again, and not only in places where advantages are gained. Hamilton left the track at T10 to avoid a flat spot. This means he gained a massive advantage compared too if Bahrain was an old school track surrounded by grass and gravel, where he would have had to pit for new tyres or would have ended up in a barrier. Drivers get 2 free passes. 3rd, 4th, 5th time etc. is gonna cost you time.
 
Overtakes outside white lines are always illegal. Drivers and teams will know this.
For tracks that have wide kerbstones with a gravel edge (like the Lesmo's at Monza), the white line is placed behind the kerbstones. This makes them a part of the track.
 
These rules are applicable on every track we go to. From Monaco to Abu Dhabi. We can immediately get rid of the stupid 'exit roads around the bollard' at turn 2 in Sochi as well. No baby sitting either. Gasly left the track because he lost his front wing? Boom. 1x.

 

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

I thought this was a nice change of pace from all the track limit talk.

[ChickenSandwich 9829]

One of the biggest talking points to come out of the Bahrain Grand Prix was the enforcement of track limits at Turn 4 – with Mercedes Team Principal Toto Wolff saying he’d like see clearer instructions handed out to teams on what they could and couldn’t do going forward.

Wolff’s driver Lewis Hamilton was the eventual winner of the Bahrain Grand Prix, triumphing after Red Bull’s Max Verstappen attempted a move around the outside of Turn 4 three laps from the end but ran off track, before being instructed to give the place back and allowing Hamilton to claim his 96th F1 victory.

Prior to that, Hamilton had been clocked 29 times using the advantageous off-track line at the exit of Turn 4 – with the stewards eventually threatening a black and white flag if he continued to do so.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.wolff-calls-for-clearer-track-limit-guidance-as-he-compares-bahrain-turn-4.14DUu9Oja5UkXUTFnDsDvG.html

 

[Hawndoh 2386]

Quote

see clearer instructions handed out to teams on what they could and couldn’t do

If only there was something like a line painted on the ground that everyone could see....

[PittsburghTiger 6175]

12 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

One of the biggest talking points to come out of the Bahrain Grand Prix was the enforcement of track limits at Turn 4 – with Mercedes Team Principal Toto Wolff saying he’d like see clearer instructions handed out to teams on what they could and couldn’t do going forward.

Wolff’s driver Lewis Hamilton was the eventual winner of the Bahrain Grand Prix, triumphing after Red Bull’s Max Verstappen attempted a move around the outside of Turn 4 three laps from the end but ran off track, before being instructed to give the place back and allowing Hamilton to claim his 96th F1 victory.

Prior to that, Hamilton had been clocked 29 times using the advantageous off-track line at the exit of Turn 4 – with the stewards eventually threatening a black and white flag if he continued to do so.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.wolff-calls-for-clearer-track-limit-guidance-as-he-compares-bahrain-turn-4.14DUu9Oja5UkXUTFnDsDvG.html

 

Fucking hell!