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Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 2:13 PM, ChickenSandwich said:
A decade running the race and logistics every bit as shitty as 2012. Looks like nothing has changed. 

I will say this, a supervisor or something must have shown up and told security to stop checking bags at this turn 4? entrance because right after the picture above they just had people walking in and the line was cleared in about 10-15 mins.

10 more mins until we can order a beer.
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Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 3:27 PM, RPM said:
forecast1024.thumb.JPG.24d32a39c97f495b7e68523e108385be.JPG
Nothing on radar except some stuff in the gulf.
radar1024.thumb.JPG.b29f2de7f7ef20368cdd748023379a9c.JPG

Concur.

Was drizzling and cool earlier and track was damp but fog/clouds are breaking now and temps getting into the high 70s, low 80s.
Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 2:13 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

A decade running the race and logistics every bit as shitty as 2012. Looks like nothing has changed. 

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Yep.  COTA's facebook page is absolutely getting blown up with irate complaints, tons of people saying they'll never be back, and many saying they won't be back today even though they have tickets.

Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 10:33 AM, RPM said:

Who paved COTA? That track looks like a washboard.

Expand  

Which time?

Believe it or not, this is the short version of this story...

A very specialized paving was done in 2012 under the supervision of a racing asphalt specialist, with very precise equipment that had to be imported for the job, and with specialized aggregates. After grinding again in 2018, they resurfaced T10 in late 2019, using a local company, local equipment, and local aggregates, with no specialist supervising the milling of the bumps beforehand or the paving. Same in 2020 when they resurfaced about 40% of the track. Since then they've had to re-pave some of those new areas 2 times because the bumps just keep coming back. So that made several different surfaces on the track, all of different ages and friction levels. The MotoGP riders said the constantly changing grip levels played havoc with the bikes, not to mention the bumps. Since then, they've ground bumps again. both on old and newer sections, and all without proper specialist supervision ... so it's anyone's guess how many different surfaces there are out there now.

All the bump grinding and resurfacing is pointless though without a proper repair of the cheaper, undersized drainage system Esptein chose and then didn't maintain because $$ (despite warnings from the engineers on both counts). That drainage system was critical to the engineering plan to mitigate the soil issues, and it and the track surface were holding up fairly well until the big rain events came in 2015. It failed because it was too small and wasn't maintained, and because the track was never covered to keep rain off of it and out of it, as the engineers had also recommended. . When it failed, the water had to go somewhere, and it went over, under, and through the substrate of the track, damaging it and causing subsidence. That creates the bumps and cracks that change literally constantly. Until that's repaired, they can do all the resurfacing in the world and it won't matter, because the bumps will just keep popping back up.

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Posted (edited)
  On 10/24/2021 at 12:53 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Getting dropped off at the track today by a friend. 
 

If they were trying to pick us up after the race, is there somewhere we can walk away from the track to meet?

Assuming Lyft and Uber lines are terrible?

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The closest drop off and pickup point I've heard about this year is the one out on McAngus Road, and people are pissed ... and Uber & Lyft drivers were complaining last night about the long times to get there and get back, usually with no return fares. Most were saying to just not take any fares that pop up going to or from COTA. It's a dumpster fire. Good luck. 

Edited by wood
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Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 4:17 PM, wood said:

Which time?

Believe it or not, this is the short version of this story...

A very specialized paving was done in 2012 under the supervision of a racing asphalt specialist, with very precise equipment that had to be imported for the job, and with specialized aggregates. After grinding again in 2018, they resurfaced T10 in late 2019, using a local company, local equipment, and local aggregates, with no specialist supervising the milling of the bumps beforehand or the paving. Same in 2020 when they resurfaced about 40% of the track. Since then they've had to re-pave some of those new areas 2 times because the bumps just keep coming back. So that made several different surfaces on the track, all of different ages and friction levels. The MotoGP riders said the constantly changing grip levels played havoc with the bikes, not to mention the bumps. Since then, they've ground bumps again. both on old and newer sections, and all without proper specialist supervision ... so it's anyone's guess how many different surfaces there are out there now.

All the bump grinding and resurfacing is pointless though without a proper repair of the cheaper, undersized drainage system Esptein chose and then didn't maintain because $$ (despite warnings from the engineers on both counts). That drainage system was critical to the engineering plan to mitigate the soil issues, and it and the track surface were holding up fairly well until the big rain events came in 2015. It failed because it was too small and wasn't maintained, and because the track was never covered to keep rain off of it and out of it, as the engineers had also recommended. . When it failed, the water had to go somewhere, and it went over, under, and through the substrate of the track, damaging it and causing subsidence. That creates the bumps and cracks that change literally constantly. Until that's repaired, they can do all the resurfacing in the world and it won't matter, because the bumps will just keep popping back up.

Expand  

The reason I ask is in a previous career I was in road construction. It just screams to me that the soil prep was not done right. If you don't get that stabilized, it's working with a floating surface. They are going to have to go down to dirt to fix this.

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Posted (edited)
  On 10/24/2021 at 4:23 PM, RPM said:

The reason I ask is in a previous career I was in road construction. It just screams to me that the soil prep was not done right. If you don't get that stabilized, it's working with a floating surface. They are going to have to go down to dirt to fix this.

Expand  

Yeah that's how it looks, but the original soil prep was done with painstaking precision and care - down to 3 mm variation in the surface over 4m. It was incredibly smooth. The real culprit is the less robust, smaller, cheaper drainage solution Epstein chose. When it failed, the substrate was damaged all over the circuit. Until it's properly repaired/upgraded, this is going to continue. Remember back in 2019/2020 when the did that limited resurfacing? Epstein said publicly that they were also going to repair the drainage. Of course, that was bullshit, and they never touched it. Now Epstein says there's no problem. He even had the trackside PA announcers telling everyone on Friday that nobody, not one rider or driver, has ever complained about the track surface, since COTA opened. They literally said that COTA has only ever received the most glowing compliments ... despite numerous complaints from F12 and WEC drivers, and an actual ultimatum being given to COTA by Dorna and the MotoGP over the bumps just a couple of weeks ago. 

bagdad-bob.gif

For anyone who isn't clear about what the real underlying issues are at COTA and what the engineers did to mitigate those issues - and doesn't mind reading a long post - here's an explanation I've posted on reddit and elsewhere. Sorry so long, but there's really no quick way to explain it. So, spoilered. Apologies if you've already read it. It's been re-posted a few times by me nd others, so it's definitely made the rounds:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited by wood
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Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 4:36 PM, wood said:

Remember back in 2019/2020 when the did that limited resurfacing? Epstein said publicly that they were also going to repair the drainage. Of course, that was bullshit, and they never touched it.

Expand  

Honestly, I don't. I've never followed COTA closely until the last 2 years or so. But what you say makes sense. Poor drainage is a killer. 

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Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 4:42 PM, RPM said:

Honestly, I don't. I've never followed COTA closely until the last 2 years or so. But what you say makes sense. Poor drainage is a killer. 

Expand  

Yep. It's critical, esp when you build something on the side of a hill on expansive black clay. BTW, I just edited that last post to add a more detailed explanation (which is actually still kind of a short version.  Here's an engineering article written about it at the time that goes into lots of detail & is actually kinda interesting. They paved with a surface variation tolerance of just 3mm for every 4m.

https://www.forconstructionpros.com/home/article/10816416/smoothness-unique-mixes-key-to-new-formula-1-track-construction-near-austin

Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 4:47 PM, wood said:

They paved with a surface variation tolerance of just 3mm for every 4m.

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I don't know the specs, but when I worked for Duininck Brothers we did some experimental surfacing with a new laser guided paver. Took forever (like a week) to get the damn thing dialed in, but after that it was perfect. High tech stuff for early 90's. Also did some experimental surfacing with recycled tires ground up in the mix to resist cracking from temp variations. Seems like that kind of surface would be perfect for racing.

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Posted

Remember when all the mechanics were looking at the diffuser area in the Merc garage? Seems they had to modify the car to avoid "breaking the car".

  Quote

“So what we did is that the car was bottoming out quite heavy, and that breaks the car,” said Wolff. “So we took some mitigating steps to not break it, or massacre it that hard, in order to survive the race. 

"Definitely a compromise for going faster on the track, but maybe a necessity to actually finish.”

Expand  

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-modifies-cars-avoid-massacre-austin-bumps/6706618/

Posted
  On 10/24/2021 at 4:02 PM, wood said:

tons of people saying they'll never be back, and many saying they won't be back today even though they have tickets.

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Fine with me.  The less, the merrier.
 

There’s definitely some logistical issues, but it hasn’t been too bad for me this weekend. 

Posted

So this happened yesterday at T15. 

sh5ydj0liav71.jpg

There's no kerb or anything on the outside that would have caused that - except bumps. She ended up with a T4 fracture from it...

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