Formula 1 2021

[ChickenSandwich 9,845]

A decade running the race and logistics every bit as shitty as 2012. Looks like nothing has changed. 

[McCroskey 1,505]

A decade running the race and logistics every bit as shitty as 2012. Looks like nothing has changed. 

I will say this, a supervisor or something must have shown up and told security to stop checking bags at this turn 4? entrance because right after the picture above they just had people walking in and the line was cleared in about 10-15 mins.

10 more mins until we can order a beer.

[ChickenSandwich 9,845]

Can anyone confirm if there is rain at the track currently?

 

Getting steady drizzle in NW Austin. 

[RPM 26,332]

15 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Can anyone confirm if there is rain at the track currently?

 

Getting steady drizzle in NW Austin. 

Nothing on radar except some stuff in the gulf.

[McCroskey 1,505]

Nothing on radar except some stuff in the gulf.

Concur.

Was drizzling and cool earlier and track was damp but fog/clouds are breaking now and temps getting into the high 70s, low 80s.

[wood 11,231]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

A decade running the race and logistics every bit as shitty as 2012. Looks like nothing has changed. 

Yep.  COTA's facebook page is absolutely getting blown up with irate complaints, tons of people saying they'll never be back, and many saying they won't be back today even though they have tickets.

[RPM 26,332]

You poors should obviously chopper in.

[wood 11,231]

5 hours ago, RPM said:

Who paved COTA? That track looks like a washboard.

Which time?

Believe it or not, this is the short version of this story...

A very specialized paving was done in 2012 under the supervision of a racing asphalt specialist, with very precise equipment that had to be imported for the job, and with specialized aggregates. After grinding again in 2018, they resurfaced T10 in late 2019, using a local company, local equipment, and local aggregates, with no specialist supervising the milling of the bumps beforehand or the paving. Same in 2020 when they resurfaced about 40% of the track. Since then they've had to re-pave some of those new areas 2 times because the bumps just keep coming back. So that made several different surfaces on the track, all of different ages and friction levels. The MotoGP riders said the constantly changing grip levels played havoc with the bikes, not to mention the bumps. Since then, they've ground bumps again. both on old and newer sections, and all without proper specialist supervision ... so it's anyone's guess how many different surfaces there are out there now.

All the bump grinding and resurfacing is pointless though without a proper repair of the cheaper, undersized drainage system Esptein chose and then didn't maintain because $$ (despite warnings from the engineers on both counts). That drainage system was critical to the engineering plan to mitigate the soil issues, and it and the track surface were holding up fairly well until the big rain events came in 2015. It failed because it was too small and wasn't maintained, and because the track was never covered to keep rain off of it and out of it, as the engineers had also recommended. . When it failed, the water had to go somewhere, and it went over, under, and through the substrate of the track, damaging it and causing subsidence. That creates the bumps and cracks that change literally constantly. Until that's repaired, they can do all the resurfacing in the world and it won't matter, because the bumps will just keep popping back up.

[wood 11,231]

3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Getting dropped off at the track today by a friend. 
 

If they were trying to pick us up after the race, is there somewhere we can walk away from the track to meet?

Assuming Lyft and Uber lines are terrible?

The closest drop off and pickup point I've heard about this year is the one out on McAngus Road, and people are pissed ... and Uber & Lyft drivers were complaining last night about the long times to get there and get back, usually with no return fares. Most were saying to just not take any fares that pop up going to or from COTA. It's a dumpster fire. Good luck. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by wood

[RPM 26,332]

Just now, wood said:

Which time?

Believe it or not, this is the short version of this story...

A very specialized paving was done in 2012 under the supervision of a racing asphalt specialist, with very precise equipment that had to be imported for the job, and with specialized aggregates. After grinding again in 2018, they resurfaced T10 in late 2019, using a local company, local equipment, and local aggregates, with no specialist supervising the milling of the bumps beforehand or the paving. Same in 2020 when they resurfaced about 40% of the track. Since then they've had to re-pave some of those new areas 2 times because the bumps just keep coming back. So that made several different surfaces on the track, all of different ages and friction levels. The MotoGP riders said the constantly changing grip levels played havoc with the bikes, not to mention the bumps. Since then, they've ground bumps again. both on old and newer sections, and all without proper specialist supervision ... so it's anyone's guess how many different surfaces there are out there now.

All the bump grinding and resurfacing is pointless though without a proper repair of the cheaper, undersized drainage system Esptein chose and then didn't maintain because $$ (despite warnings from the engineers on both counts). That drainage system was critical to the engineering plan to mitigate the soil issues, and it and the track surface were holding up fairly well until the big rain events came in 2015. It failed because it was too small and wasn't maintained, and because the track was never covered to keep rain off of it and out of it, as the engineers had also recommended. . When it failed, the water had to go somewhere, and it went over, under, and through the substrate of the track, damaging it and causing subsidence. That creates the bumps and cracks that change literally constantly. Until that's repaired, they can do all the resurfacing in the world and it won't matter, because the bumps will just keep popping back up.

The reason I ask is in a previous career I was in road construction. It just screams to me that the soil prep was not done right. If you don't get that stabilized, it's working with a floating surface. They are going to have to go down to dirt to fix this.

[RPM 26,332]

1 hour until race. If you aren't parked by now, you're fucked.

[wood 11,231]

25 minutes ago, RPM said:

The reason I ask is in a previous career I was in road construction. It just screams to me that the soil prep was not done right. If you don't get that stabilized, it's working with a floating surface. They are going to have to go down to dirt to fix this.

Yeah that's how it looks, but the original soil prep was done with painstaking precision and care - down to 3 mm variation in the surface over 4m. It was incredibly smooth. The real culprit is the less robust, smaller, cheaper drainage solution Epstein chose. When it failed, the substrate was damaged all over the circuit. Until it's properly repaired/upgraded, this is going to continue. Remember back in 2019/2020 when the did that limited resurfacing? Epstein said publicly that they were also going to repair the drainage. Of course, that was bullshit, and they never touched it. Now Epstein says there's no problem. He even had the trackside PA announcers telling everyone on Friday that nobody, not one rider or driver, has ever complained about the track surface, since COTA opened. They literally said that COTA has only ever received the most glowing compliments ... despite numerous complaints from F12 and WEC drivers, and an actual ultimatum being given to COTA by Dorna and the MotoGP over the bumps just a couple of weeks ago. 

For anyone who isn't clear about what the real underlying issues are at COTA and what the engineers did to mitigate those issues - and doesn't mind reading a long post - here's an explanation I've posted on reddit and elsewhere. Sorry so long, but there's really no quick way to explain it. So, spoilered. Apologies if you've already read it. It's been re-posted a few times by me nd others, so it's definitely made the rounds:

Spoiler

"Yes, it's bumpy af, even after they resurfaced 40% of the circuit in 2019-20. The soil is constantly shifting and heaving, laterally and vertically.

The roads all around the circuit go through the same problems. They're like rollercoasters. The county comes out and levels & resurfaces them every few years, but within a few months they're crazy rollercoasters again. Hell, the utility poles in the area won't even stay vertical and have to be re-installed every few years. They install them nice and plumb, but in a year or two they need to be re-set because they're leaning. They replace them over and over.

COTA Blvd is a great example, too. It was billiard table smooth in 2012 when it was built. It quickly became so bumpy that you can't drive even close to the speed limit on it without catching air in several places. These bumps are not because of F1 downforce. There are no F1 cars driving out there.

If you're interested in the backstory, I wrote this about the soil problems a while back.

Short version: It's very bumpy at racing speeds, esp along the east side, and is cracking/coming apart, and they aren't doing anything serious to fix the underlying problem.

Medium/long version: The ground is not very stable (putting it kindly). Really, it just never stops moving. Remember a couple of years ago when Jennie Gow reported that the teams take scans of the track on every visit, and it had moved as much as 1.5 meters in places since the previous GP there? Think about that for a second. Holy crap. That led to the all-night bump grinding ops on both Friday and Saturday nights of the GP weekend. Seriously, after FP2 and after Qualifying? Wtf COTA? There have been other bump grinding ops done prior to that as well. That helps only marginally, and it thins & weakens the track surface, accelerating the appearance of new bumps & cracks in the future.

Here's the deal, in a nutshell. Without PROPER repairs, unlike many other tracks COTA will never get to a point where it's 'finished settling' and then be relatively stable. This isn't normal settling that can be remedied by repaving every few years as at other circuits. There are massive problems with shifting soil/clay there, which was known even before they took the first core samples. The soil in that area basically never stops moving. COTA's track surface is not going to eventually settle and be stable going forward.

The black clay around and under COTA is extremely porous and expansive, expanding like a sponge in wet weather and shrinking in dry, hot weather. When it expands, it heaves and moves laterally. When it shrinks, it moves again and cracks. The engineers knew about it and put an engineering solution in place to limit the issues. They dug down as much as 20 feet in places and laid an impermeable polymer barrier, then refilled it all with prescribed, imported road base aggregates, then paved on top of that.

The track is built along the side of a hill. A drainage solution was designed to divert rain runoff down the hill - under the track and under the water barrier. This way, the engineers sought to create a 'tube' on which the track would rest and which would be made more stable than the surrounding soil by controlling the water content inside it .

During the original design process, the engineers actually designed a good solution to deal with the soil issues, but I’ve been told that Epstein chose a cheaper, less robust version of the drainage system that was critical to the success of the mitigation plan. I’m also told by multiple people involved that he cancelled periodic maintenance of the drainage system as well, to save money. Then when big rain events predictably occurred, the downsized, unmaintained drainage system was overwhelmed. Water is always going to find a way downhill, no matter what, so it ran across, under, and even through the now-damaged subsurface barrier ‘tube’.

The water moving inside the tube weakened the track base and caused subsidence. That created bumps and cracks in the surface. You can see evidence of this during any significant rain at COTA, as water weeps up from the track base (where it’s not even supposed to be) and out through cracks in the track surface (which also allow water into the substrate, and that’s very bad).Then when big rain events predictably occurred, the downsized drainage system was overwhelmed. Water is always going to find a way downhill, no matter what, so it ran across, under, and even through the now-damaged subsurface barrier 'tube'. The water moving inside the tube weakened the track base and caused subsidence. That created bumps and cracks in the surface. You can see evidence of this during any significant rain at COTA, as water weeps up from the track base (where it's not even supposed to be) and out through cracks in the track surface (which also allow water into the substrate, and that’s very bad).

I've taken photos the last few years of water weeping up from under the asphalt, through cracks in the track. Last night, I was texted another such photo by a buddy who was out there yesterday. The photo shows water weeping up & out through cracks in the asphalt at one of the problem areas, between turns 9 and 10. The last rain out there was over a week ago and water was still weeping out onto the track yesterday.

That area is one of the segments that was resurfaced in January 2020. Other areas where we've noticed such weeping are downhill of turn 1, all along the esses, at turn 10, around turn 11, along the back straight, and around turns 17-20.

In January 2020, they did some work on the deteriorating track surface. A lot of people think they resurfaced the whole thing, but they actually only resurfaced about 40% of the track, inexplicably ignoring some of the roughest areas (as noted by Tony Kanaan during IndyCar 'spring training). It's still very bumy along the east side of the circuit (T2-11).

They claimed at the time that they were going to address the underlying drainage system deficiencies that are a big part of the problem. True to form for COTA, they ignored the drainage system and, as we predicted, the newly-resurfaced areas soon had big new bumps and cracking problems (that are actually just continuations of the same problems they've always had and have never addressed in any serious way). They ended up resurfacing some of those newly-paved areas once and even twice more in the following months, because the bumps & cracks kept coming back so quickly."

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by wood

[RPM 26,332]

1 minute ago, wood said:

Remember back in 2019/2020 when the did that limited resurfacing? Epstein said publicly that they were also going to repair the drainage. Of course, that was bullshit, and they never touched it.

Honestly, I don't. I've never followed COTA closely until the last 2 years or so. But what you say makes sense. Poor drainage is a killer. 

[wood 11,231]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

Honestly, I don't. I've never followed COTA closely until the last 2 years or so. But what you say makes sense. Poor drainage is a killer. 

Yep. It's critical, esp when you build something on the side of a hill on expansive black clay. BTW, I just edited that last post to add a more detailed explanation (which is actually still kind of a short version.  Here's an engineering article written about it at the time that goes into lots of detail & is actually kinda interesting. They paved with a surface variation tolerance of just 3mm for every 4m.

https://www.forconstructionpros.com/home/article/10816416/smoothness-unique-mixes-key-to-new-formula-1-track-construction-near-austin

[wood 11,231]

Ocon's visor cam onboard from Friday. Unreal. It's like he's in a paint mixer.

 

[RPM 26,332]

8 minutes ago, wood said:

They paved with a surface variation tolerance of just 3mm for every 4m.

I don't know the specs, but when I worked for Duininck Brothers we did some experimental surfacing with a new laser guided paver. Took forever (like a week) to get the damn thing dialed in, but after that it was perfect. High tech stuff for early 90's. Also did some experimental surfacing with recycled tires ground up in the mix to resist cracking from temp variations. Seems like that kind of surface would be perfect for racing.

[wood 11,231]

Remember when all the mechanics were looking at the diffuser area in the Merc garage? Seems they had to modify the car to avoid "breaking the car".

Quote

“So what we did is that the car was bottoming out quite heavy, and that breaks the car,” said Wolff. “So we took some mitigating steps to not break it, or massacre it that hard, in order to survive the race. 

"Definitely a compromise for going faster on the track, but maybe a necessity to actually finish.”

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-modifies-cars-avoid-massacre-austin-bumps/6706618/

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

Lewis gonna finish the race like

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

[RPM 26,332]

It's hard not to like Daniel. 

[Dutch 4,474]

Yep. Danny was the latest guest on the “Beyond The Grid” podcast, and he made sure to throw out a “Hook Em!” 🤘

[RamjetFDO 10,577]

Great intro sequence with Willie Ribbs.

[RPM 26,332]

Crowd looks great.

[RPM 26,332]

Pretty sure they would have to medevac me from half way up that tower.

[Burt Macklin 19,038]

1 hour ago, wood said:

tons of people saying they'll never be back, and many saying they won't be back today even though they have tickets.

Fine with me.  The less, the merrier.
 

There’s definitely some logistical issues, but it hasn’t been too bad for me this weekend. 

[RPM 26,332]

Nice shot of the band.

[RamjetFDO 10,577]

Danny having fun in the NASCAR #3!

[RPM 26,332]

[Dutch 4,474]

15 minutes ago, RamjetFDO said:

Danny having fun in the NASCAR #3!

That was awesome; wish they had shot off the background music that distracted from that glorious NASCAR V8 noise. 

[RPM 26,332]

Emerson!!

[RPM 26,332]

The fact everyone in Europe has to be up at an ungodly hour to watch the race live warms my heart.

[wood 11,231]

So this happened yesterday at T15. 

There's no kerb or anything on the outside that would have caused that - except bumps. She ended up with a T4 fracture from it...

[elfenix 34,331]

The fact everyone in Europe has to be up at an ungodly hour to watch the race live warms my heart.

9 pm?

[RPM 26,332]

Just now, elfenix said:

7 minutes ago, RPM said:

The fact everyone in Europe has to be up at an ungodly hour to watch the race live warms my heart.

9 pm?

Damn. I was hoping it was like 1 am or some such. Don't rain on my parade.

[RamjetFDO 10,577]

9 pm?

UNGODLY!

[kevwun 15,818]

What channel is the race on?

[ChickenSandwich 9,845]

Race starts at 2, why so many cars on track?

[RamjetFDO 10,577]

What channel is the race on?

ABC. Main channel

[elfenix 34,331]

Race starts at 2, why so many cars on track?

They put all the cars on the grid for final prep

[wood 11,231]

7 minutes ago, elfenix said:

14 minutes ago, RPM said:

The fact everyone in Europe has to be up at an ungodly hour to watch the race live warms my heart.

9 pm?

My grandma always said "Ain't nothing good happening after 8PM".

[RamjetFDO 10,577]

Martin Brundle gets so excited and frantic on his Grid Walk segment... really quite fun.

[RPM 26,332]

Megan Thee Stallion's bodyguard ain't a Sky Sports fan.

[RamjetFDO 10,577]

Megan Thee Stallion's bodyguard ain't a Sky Sports fan.

Second bodyguard - "you can't do that"

Martin Brundle - "I can do that because I did"

[RPM 26,332]

Surprised there's no McConaughey sighting.

[pops 7,006]

Rory is a good dude. 

[MAROON 445]

2 minutes ago, RPM said:

Megan Thee Stallion's bodyguard ain't a Sky Sports fan.

Should rebrand as Megan The Heifer. 

[RPM 26,332]

1st interview Stiller has done all weekend.

[MAROON 445]

Serena and the rap chick so important they can’t give an impromptu interview.  Ben Stiller and Euros to the rescue. 

[RPM 26,332]

Most US celebs seem to be assholes.

[pops 7,006]

Is that the chick that goes to the longhorn games in the caddy with the longhorns on the hood?