Formula 1 2021

[wood 11225]

COTA has washed their hands of the transportation matter. They say they are not responsible for the transportation of fans to the USGP - despite those fans paying COTA 100s of $$$ for a Park & Ride lot.

Shameful, but just more of the same from COTA.

[Guest]

Any news stations doing work on this story? Seems like a big one.

[kevwun 15774]

Nothing will come of it.  The problem with building sports venues in undeveloped areas where land is cheap is that there aren’t multiple routes for traffic to leave after the event.

[Guest Lobo]

Pretty incredible, with all those financial incentives for over a decade, they couldn't even add a shoulder to an existing road...or at least extend some cursory "mulch trails" alongside some of the egress routes.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by Lobo

[Mittens 8263]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Pretty incredible, with all those financial incentives for over a decade, they couldn't even add a shoulder to an existing road...or at least extend some cursory "mulch trails" alongside some of the egress routes.  

My understanding is the money from the Texas Major Events Reimbursement Program is what pays the Formula 1/Liberty race fee.  

[faps 806]

13 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Pretty incredible, with all those financial incentives for over a decade, they couldn't even add a shoulder to an existing road...or at least extend some cursory "mulch trails" alongside some of the egress routes.  

Or some trees or awnings or shade of any kind. It's like being on the surface of the sun out there.

[Guest Lobo]

Just now, Mittens said:

My understanding is the money from the Texas Major Events Reimbursement Program is what pays the Formula 1/Liberty race fee.  

No, I know that part.  I guess I should have said just the overall economic windfall for them between tax abatements and just insane revenue, plus all the other year-around shit they get to do out there...it would have been a prudent business move to add a fucking pedestrian trail of crushed gravel or someshit in case people had to hoof it.  Sorry to oversimplify but hearing stories from friends of hoofing it in the dark with little kids for several miles along dangerous roads is infuriating.  I know economic decisions shouldn't be based off of rare, emotionally-charged instances...hence why I could never be a politician.  

I haven't been out there in a few years but it sounds like it's gotten much worse. 

[Updawg 2266]

No, I know that part.  I guess I should have said just the overall economic windfall for them between tax abatements and just insane revenue, plus all the other year-around shit they get to do out there...it would have been a prudent business move to add a fucking pedestrian trail of crushed gravel or someshit in case people had to hoof it.  Sorry to oversimplify but hearing stories from friends of hoofing it in the dark with little kids for several miles along dangerous roads is infuriating.  I know economic decisions shouldn't be based off of rare, emotionally-charged instances...hence why I could never be a politician.  
I haven't been out there in a few years but it sounds like it's gotten much worse. 

It definitely was worse this year.

A big problem is they just didn’t have enough staff and most of the people they had weren’t even trying to work

My favorite part was the area between the two pedestrian bridges where you have to cross the road that support staff use

They had two people trying control everyone. Needed at least 10 people. There was one guy trying hard but I’m sure he eventually said fuck it or got trampled

[Mittens 8263]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I guess I should have said just the overall economic windfall for them between tax abatements and just insane revenue, plus all the other year-around shit they get to do out there

Don't know that they have any economic windfalls. Seems to me they've been barely hanging on, which is why there are always rumors that Epstein is looking/ready/willing to sell.  They don't do a ton of events out there and other than F1, what they do have doesn't seem to be well attended enough to move the needle.  I have always been under the impression that whatever money is made over F1 weekend floats the rest of the year.

100% agree that 10 years is plenty long enough for them to have worked on every issue that's been brought up this (and every other) race weekend.  

[Levi 2586]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVdoTOaLWBJ/?utm_medium=copy_link

(couldn't get the insta link to embed)

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

Pretty incredible, with all those financial incentives for over a decade, they couldn't even add a shoulder to an existing road...or at least extend some cursory "mulch trails" alongside some of the egress routes.  

Or fix the got damn track and drainage system that they fucked up. More than $250 Million so far, and $35 Million more in the pipeline for this race.

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, Mittens said:

My understanding is the money from the Texas Major Events Reimbursement Program is what pays the Formula 1/Liberty race fee.  

It does, but the fee is usually actually lower than the subsidy since a few years ago when Epstein renegotiated with Bernie.. And just because they use it to pay for the fee, that doesn't mean they don't still benefit by that amount. Without the subsidy, they'd have to pay the sanctioning fee themselves if they want a GP.

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, faps said:

Or some trees or awnings or shade of any kind. It's like being on the surface of the sun out there.

Yeah lack of shade & shelter is a big problem out there. One of the 'stipulations' they agreed to when getting Austin City Council approval was that they'd plant 3000+ trees around the circuit. Of course, that never happened.

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, Mittens said:

Don't know that they have any economic windfalls. Seems to me they've been barely hanging on, which is why there are always rumors that Epstein is looking/ready/willing to sell.  They don't do a ton of events out there and other than F1, what they do have doesn't seem to be well attended enough to move the needle.  I have always been under the impression that whatever money is made over F1 weekend floats the rest of the year.

100% agree that 10 years is plenty long enough for them to have worked on every issue that's been brought up this (and every other) race weekend.  

They've received lots of other windfalls. Just off the top of my head...

- The city built them a $14M water system that COTA somehow owns.

- They claim the track & property are worth $450M. It was valued at only $275M in 2015, but they still said that was too high and sued and got that lowered by 2/3, to $91 M. That deal was also retroactive to 2013. That's a pretty got damn nice windfall that's still paying off today.

- They found a way to get some kind of ag exemption for a huge chunk of the land for some kind of turkey that nobody's ever seen around there.

- Kellam Road - directly across Elroy Road from COTA Blvd, used to just dead end. The County expanded it for them and extended it all the way to 71, with 2 or 3 bridges along the way. They are also making Elroy Road 4 lanes with a large bride passing over the flooded creek area. The expansion stops right at the COTA entrance.

- AFD built a brand new $10 M Fire/EMS station on Elroy Road near McAngus that does little more than respond to incidents on COTA property.

 

Re: their financial woes, they were in bad shape for a long time. Epstein has managed, with more than $250 M and all the other help they get, to manage the debt and make the place somewhat profitable. But even if it were still in bad shape, that certainly would not add legitimacy to a huge subsidy.

Re: Selling, he's been looking to sell for several years. The plan was always for him to keep it for a couple of years and then get out, but the place isn't worth nearly as much as they need for it, and the track needs massive repairs ... so they're kinda fucked unless someone moron billionaire comes along, and I don't think there are too many people who check both of those boxes.

Edited October 25, 2021 by wood

[Updawg 2266]

So do you think F1 comes back?

The crowd numbers have to look good.

The customer service not so good

[wood 11225]

8 minutes ago, Updawg said:

So do you think F1 comes back?

The crowd numbers have to look good.

The customer service not so good

I think F1 needs them for another year or maybe 2, but  Miami comes onto the calendar next year and Vegas will be added in 2023 (yep, that's happening). Indy is also interested. So in a year or 2, it looks a lot like COTA will be expendable. F1 needs the US. It doesn't need COTA when they will have other viable, possibly more sexy or better-run options. It'll be interesting to see how the negotiations go (which Epstein has said have been going on for years). He came out recently saying that the US can support 4 races, which tells me he's very concerned about being replaced by Miami, Vegas, and Indy.

Edited October 25, 2021 by wood

[wood 11225]

I just heard from a buddy that KXAN is gonna cover the shuttle fiasco on the 600 news. Watching, but dunno if it's already aired. 

[wood 11225]

I didn't get to see it, but it sounds like KXAN put it all on the bus contractor & said they were only 5 buses short, which is bullshit. This is pretty much what I expected when I heard KXAN was running the story. KXAN Investigates is a joke, and the guy who runs KXAN is buddies with that puto Bobby.

Edited October 25, 2021 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

So celebs showing up to F1 without any clue as to what is going on... pretty cringe right? The Megan the Stallion thing was just awful all around. Serena seemingly having no idea who Martin Brundle is. Half dozen check-ins with Ben Stiller during the race. Shaq sharing a podium behind the drivers was just weird. 
At least we didn't have MM doing his thing. 
I think having the celebs being shown occasionally in a "look who is here" way adds to some of the spectacle of F1. But trying to interview them or make them a part of the programming is just yuck.

Eh, Martin’s grid walks are the stuff of legend for the good, the bad, and the ugly. Usually anything involving Serena Williams is going to be ugly as she has the personality of a tree stump.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, wood said:

They've received lots of other windfalls. Just off the top of my head...

- The city built them a $14M water system that COTA somehow owns.

- They claim the track & property are worth $450M. It was valued at only $275M in 2015, but they still said that was too high and sued and got that lowered by 2/3, to $91 M. That deal was also retroactive to 2013. That's a pretty got damn nice windfall that's still paying off today.

- They found a way to get some kind of ag exemption for a huge chunk of the land for some kind of turkey that nobody's ever seen around there.

- Kellam Road - directly across Elroy Road from COTA Blvd, used to just dead end. The County expanded it for them and extended it all the way to 71, with 2 or 3 bridges along the way. They are also making Elroy Road 4 lanes with a large bride passing over the flooded creek area. The expansion stops right at the COTA entrance.

- AFD built a brand new $10 M Fire/EMS station on Elroy Road near McAngus that does little more than respond to incidents on COTA property.

 

Re: their financial woes, they were in bad shape for a long time. Epstein has managed, with more than $250 M and all the other help they get, to manage the debt and make the place somewhat profitable. But even if it were still in bad shape, that certainly would not add legitimacy to a huge subsidy.

Re: Selling, he's been looking to sell for several years. The plan was always for him to keep it for a couple of years and then get out, but the place isn't worth nearly as much as they need for it, and the track needs massive repairs ... so they're kinda fucked unless someone moron billionaire comes along, and I don't think there are too many people who check both of those boxes.

Randolph Duke : Texas A&M :: Wood : COTA

[Guest]

Why can I not buy a t-shirt with the Max lion logo on it? I think that one a white shirt would look awesome.

[RamjetFDO 10575]

Brundle calls for ‘manners, respect’ after US gridwalk

Quote

F1 pundit Martin Brundle feels it is time for some “manners and respect” after controversial bodyguard behaviour in Austin.

Quote

At one stage told “you can’t do that”, Brundle replied with: “I can, because I just did.”

Brundle has taken to social media the day after the race to address the situation, saying he feels it is time for Formula 1 celebrity guests to start showing the series and its personnel some respect.

“I have felt under pressure on the grid before but by people called Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Mansell, Piquet and so on,” he wrote.

“Bodyguards visiting the grid for the first time don’t bother me, everyone’s got a job to do, but they could maybe learn some manners and respect on our patch.”

 

[wood 11225]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Randolph Duke : Texas A&M :: Wood : COTA

I was waiting for that, but hey, it's the truth. At least aggy isn't defrauding the taxpyers.

[utee94 15815]

34 minutes ago, wood said:

I was waiting for that, but hey, it's the truth. At least aggy isn't defrauding the taxpyers.

Unless you count funneling hurricane relief money to their football program...

....which I do.

 

[wood 11225]

14 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Unless you count funneling hurricane relief money to their football program...

....which I do.

 

Yeah that's pretty shitty.

OK, cool. COTA ethics = aggy ethics then.

[utee94 15815]

Just now, wood said:

Yeah that's pretty shitty.

OK, cool. COTA ethics = aggy ethics then.

Yikes.  Not sure which of those is a greater indictment of the other...

 

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

 

[XYZ 2154]

Brundle trying to talk to that rapper chic and Serena was cringe-worthy.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

Brundle trying to talk to that rapper chic and Serena was cringe-worthy.

Yep. Mentioned it earlier. Having celebs come out and showing them on camera seems to add to the mystique of F1. Interviewing them when they have no clue what is going on leads to cringe.

[Guest]

So I got into the sport with first season of DTS, when Max and DR were teammates.

How did DR compare to Max in the car? Was Max faster? Was it neck and neck? Just wondering what could have been if DR stayed at Red Bull.

Perez seems decent, but Max and Lewis were still 40 seconds up on him in the last race. Those two guys are just on another planet in their respective cars.

[wood 11225]

3 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

So I got into the sport with first season of DTS, when Max and DR were teammates.

How did DR compare to Max in the car? Was Max faster? Was it neck and neck? Just wondering what could have been if DR stayed at Red Bull.

Perez seems decent, but Max and Lewis were still 40 seconds up on him in the last race. Those two guys are just on another planet in their respective cars.

Max was faster, but not as much faster as he's been compared to his other teammates. I think Danny recognized Max's abilities tho, and that was certainly a factor in his departure, imho. Max is got damn quick.

Edited October 26, 2021 by wood

[Huckleberry 32857]

21 hours ago, Updawg said:

So do you think F1 comes back?

The crowd numbers have to look good.

The customer service not so good

 

21 hours ago, wood said:

I think F1 needs them for another year or maybe 2, but  Miami comes onto the calendar next year and Vegas will be added in 2023 (yep, that's happening). Indy is also interested. So in a year or 2, it looks a lot like COTA will be expendable. F1 needs the US. It doesn't need COTA when they will have other viable, possibly more sexy or better-run options. It'll be interesting to see how the negotiations go (which Epstein has said have been going on for years). He came out recently saying that the US can support 4 races, which tells me he's very concerned about being replaced by Miami, Vegas, and Indy.

To me the best thing COTA has going for it is that the track has excellent passing opportunities on more than just a back straight DRS assist. If the next formula's cars are actually able to follow better then COTA races could get really awesome.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Huckleberry

[NoName 16351]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

 

To me the best think COTA has going for it is that the track has excellent passing opportunities on more than just a back straight DRS assist. If the next formula's cars are actually able to follow better then COTA races could get really awesome.

i think it's also fantastic in that it's a purpose built track and not some parking lot track like Miami or i am sure what Vegas will end up being.

honestly, i just don't want it to go away from Texas - which is actually interesting - to some shit locale like Vegas. even though F1 having races in Vegas and Miami seems like the most F1 thing possible.

[wood 11225]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

 

To me the best think COTA has going for it is that the track has excellent passing opportunities on more than just a back straight DRS assist. If the next formula's cars are actually able to follow better then COTA races could get really awesome.

Yep. Hellmund designed the layout with exactly that in mind. Not just lots of obvious passing opportunities, but interesting, nuanced passing opportunities as well, and some very technical areas, too. A great example is where he made T1 wide on entry and narrow on exit to encourage optimistic passes up the inside, but with a difficult, narrow exit. He made the T1 braking zone flatten out right in the middle of the braking zone, and with a blind apex, making it very technical as well.

The bad thing for esp COTA starting with next year's cars is the 18" rims and very low profile tires. The current tires have very high sidewalls that absorb lots of punishment from kerbs, bumps, etc. The new wheel/tire combo will shift a great deal of that stress onto the suspension components.

[wood 11225]

10 minutes ago, NoName said:

i think it's also fantastic in that it's a purpose built track and not some parking lot track like Miami or i am sure what Vegas will end up being.

honestly, i just don't want it to go away from Texas - which is actually interesting - to some shit locale like Vegas. even though F1 having races in Vegas and Miami seems like the most F1 thing possible.

Dunno about what will happen with COTA, but Miami & Vegas are definitely on the way. I've been told the Vegas deal is already signed for 2023. Vegas reps were here in Austin over the weekend. I'm not as worried about the Miami track as some are though. Sure, it'll be flat, but that's nothing new in F1. But it's not going to be a 'parking lot race' in the way that most people seem to think it will ... like the Vegas race in Caesar's parking lot. Miami is actually building a real track. They just did it on the stadium property across the lots. The onboards from the simulations look pretty promising and pretty fast.

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by wood

[elfenix 34233]

55 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Brundle trying to talk to that rapper chic and Serena was cringe-worthy.

*chick

[utee94 15815]

Miami and Las Vegas will be fun destinations for race fans.

They're going to be absolute shit parking lot racetracks, compared to the purpose-built COTA.  That's why it's such a shame that we're talking about how haphazardly run the event is, and how the track is deteriorating without proper repairs.  It could be and should be so much better than any other event in the US.  

 

[utee94 15815]

3 minutes ago, wood said:

Dunno about what will happen with COTA, but Miami & Vegas are definitely on the way. I've been told the Vegas deal is already signed for 2023. Vegas reps were here in Austin over the weekend. I'm not as worried about the Miami track as some are though. Sure, it'll be flat, but that's nothing new in F1. But it's not going to be a 'parking lot race' in the way that most people seem to think it will ... like the Vegas race in Caesar's parking lot. Miami is actually building a real track. They just did it on the stadium property across the lots. The onboards from the simulations look pretty promising and pretty fast.

 

I've seen this, and there's just nothing here that interests me.  Elevation matters.  This course is shit.

[elfenix 34233]

miami isn't even built yet and has nicer bleachers than COTA

[elfenix 34233]

anyway, on to mexico!

 

TECH TUESDAY: High stakes at high altitude – Is Mexico City going to be a ‘Red Bull track’ again this year?

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.tech-tuesday-high-stakes-at-high-altitude-is-mexico-city-going-to-be-a-red.5TrUcSbC6RBtuieKZFKXPD.html

 

i don't see why it won't be. 

[wood 11225]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

miami isn't even built yet and has nicer bleachers than COTA

Ha, yeah. But you should see the ones they put in COTA's sims, too.

[utee94 15815]

4 minutes ago, wood said:

Ha, yeah. But you should see the ones they put in COTA's sims, too.

Heh... yeah.  You wanna know something that I can 100% guarantee?  The stands and trees around that Miami course, won't look anything like that.  Well, other than the outside of the football stadium that already exists, of course.

Edited October 26, 2021 by utee94

[wood 11225]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

Heh... yeah.  You wanna know something that I can 100% guarantee?  The stands and trees around that Miami course, won't look anything like that.  Well, other than the outside of the football stadium that already exists, of course.

Of course not, just like the actual surroundings & stands at COTA look nothing like the video games with COTA in them. 

[utee94 15815]

4 minutes ago, wood said:

Of course not, just like the actual surroundings & stands at COTA look nothing like the video games with COTA in them. 

The video games/sims I've seen of COTA look pretty true to the grandstands that were present in 2012.  The depiction of trees, on the other hand...

[wood 11225]

4 minutes ago, utee94 said:

The video games/sims I've seen of COTA look pretty true to the grandstands that were present in 2012.  The depiction of trees, on the other hand...

Most have crazy big grandstands that never existed, double-decker, shaded  T15 stands similar to that Miami video, etc. It's just what they do. Just like Hollywood, a lot of video game designers can't just go with the real thing. They have to add unnecessary shit to it. And yeah, the crazy number of trees in the games cracks me up. If only...

Edited October 26, 2021 by wood

[Mittens 8263]

Looks like Danny stuck around for some more CenTex fun...

 

 

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

I've seen this, and there's just nothing here that interests me.  Elevation matters.  This course is shit.

Silverstone: Exists

utee94: Fuck you and your flat ass!

[wood 11225]

20 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Looks like Danny stuck around for some more CenTex fun...

 

 

Looks like San Marcos, under the train tracks. Nice.

[utee94 15815]

2 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Silverstone: Exists

utee94: Fuck you and your flat ass!

Ha!

Amusing, but comparing Silverstone to the Miami course is pretty far out there.

Best I can tell, Miami = Sochi2.0.  And that's not a good thing,

[utee94 15815]

I became curious so I had to look it up.  There are actually 8 courses that have less elevation change than Silverstone. 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/10/highs-and-lows---which-f1-track-has-the-most-elevation-changes-.html

Bringing up the rear?  Yeah.  It's Sochi.  

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by utee94