Formula 1 2021

[ConferenceRoom 6,141]

Masi 100% needs to go.

[TonyTexas 10,505]

1 minute ago, vicerous said:

Protest #2 not upheld. 

A race directory just made up the rulebook and decided the champion in probably the most partisan way imaginable. A year of racing rendered meaningless for one lap of artificial DTS drama. Truly a masterclass of incompetence by Michael Masi once again and it's the sport as a whole that suffers. What a fucking embarrassment.

Off to CAS I guess - nothing will happen. 

Jeebus. STFU lurker

[52-80 19,147]

Mercedes not winning again is good for the sport.

This whole drama show is probably good for the economics of the sport.

Verstappen being validated and emboldened to continue his asstastic way of driving is...not good for the sport.

 

JIMO

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

Jeebus. STFU lurker

Lol.

[G650 14,233]

Just now, 52-80 said:

Mercedes not winning again is good for the sport.

This whole drama show is probably good for the economics of the sport.

Verstappen being validated and emboldened to continue his asstastic way of driving is...not good for the sport.

 

JIMO

Pretty much

[pops 6,980]

Fuck the offseason!

[Prepuce of Doom 21,053]

34 minutes ago, Atxracer said:

Not saying if Hamilton had turned in (from what I recall he started then bailed) and made contact it wouldn’t be Max’s fault.  But, if they were both out of the race, Max would have won anyway.  

This is a factor that I was astonished not to hear any of the announcers mention until once in passing during the lap 38 yellow (and very little in this thread until here, either) - especially since we all spent a good while talking about it all week. During the first lap Turn 6 "incident" Lewis had complete motivation to avoid contact while Max had none. Max likely welcomed it, as a double DNF gives him the Driver's Championship. 

And while I'm certainly not an expert on the rules, it would be pretty cool if the race director was. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Prepuce of Doom

[Atxracer 797]

37 minutes ago, G650 said:

Hope you have some time on your hands and a genuine hankering for trainwrecks.

Train wreck is a solid word, imo.  After watching that sans ankle biter, I go with fuck F1. It feels like they did that restart to create excitement and it’s probably DTS’s fault (that may be the worst thing that happened to this sport).

But, as far as the pass, that seemed pretty legit. Hamilton seemed to leave the door not just open, but wide open. Max took advantage and was far enough ahead to claim the corner. 
 

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but that entire chain of events (restart snd wide open door) is really suspect and a bit of a turn off.  

[kevwun 15,762]

First pass was max being an ass.  2nd pass was clean

[Goofyboy 3,269]

First pass was max being an ass.  2nd pass was clean

Agree. Second pass was clean racing on new tires

[Prepuce of Doom 21,053]

 

 

[Huckleberry 32,848]

36 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm not a long time fan, but if this is how they are going to operate, I'm out. I want exciting races, but the rules have to be applied.

Making shit up on the fly is bullshit.

lulz 

Anyone remember when Hamilton didn't even bother to try to keep any tire inside the white lines at Bahrain turn 4 for like 30 laps and not a peep from the stewards but then Verstappen tells his team on the radio "if they're not going to do anything about it then I'm doing it too."

Amazingly after like two laps of Verstappen also doing it suddenly the stewards tell everyone there will be penalties. It's cute to see the rules suddenly become sacrosanct.

[kevwun 15,762]

Hard tires also warm up slower, so Hamilton had 2 strikes against him.

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

I think is the part that bothers me the most:

The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would “interfere” in the racing between the leaders.

Masi knows here that Lewis has zero chance to hold off Max, and just basically admitted to having a huge effect on the results, and indirectly said that it was all for show and that the midfield doesn’t matter.

[G650 14,233]

 

[pops 6,980]

12 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I think is the part that bothers me the most:

The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would “interfere” in the racing between the leaders.

Masi knows here that Lewis has zero chance to hold off Max, and just basically admitted to having a huge effect on the results, and indirectly said that it was all for show and that the midfield doesn’t matter.

Also, lewis just went through them!   Masi just waives his hand and removes them from Max's way. 

Redbull knew they were beat and took chances pitting max hoping for a yellow because it was their only chance. It worked, but not without some fuckery from Masi. 

But, checco holding off hamilton was some of the best racing of the year and was a fun couple of laps. Checco gives no shits if he crashes. Lewis dancing on pins and needles. That was awesome. 

[vicerous 169]

16 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I think is the part that bothers me the most:

The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would “interfere” in the racing between the leaders.

Masi knows here that Lewis has zero chance to hold off Max, and just basically admitted to having a huge effect on the results, and indirectly said that it was all for show and that the midfield doesn’t matter.

He's got nothing to stand on. Why not give Sainz the same chance? It's very reasonable to think he might take the win while they fight it out - was he not a leader? Competitive integrity is gone.

[Goofyboy 3,269]

He's got nothing to stand on. Why not give Sainz the same chance? It's very reasonable to think he might take the win while they fight it out - was he not a leader? Competitive integrity is gone.

Seb was not happy he was not able to unlap himself. Massi fucked over every driver except Max. They should all be in there because it might be one of them next time getting screwed by Massi making up rules as he goes.


Who is Mercedes appealing to? The FIA president?

[topochico 1,049]

Man, it sucks that we are all sitting here bitching about the race officials and rules instead of the on track excitement. 

Everyone was at fault today. Masi was an idiot. I applaud the effort to have the race finish under green, but if he wanted to clear the midfield, he needed to relay that information earlier and allow RB & Mercedes to plan accordingly. He has made shitty decisions all year and I hope he gets fired. He is the Angel Hernandez of F1. 

Mercedes can bitch all they want, but they had ample opportunity in the latter part of the race to pit and get a fresh set of tires. They played the conservative game, rolled the dice and lost. Poor race management by Toto. Never leave the game in the hands of the officials. 

Even with the Masi gift, Red Bull still earned it on the track today. Perez was amazing as a teammate today and the late swap to a fresh set of softs for Max was a great call. The whole team at RB pulled together to get max P1. 

Also, LH and Max are both whiny unlikable bitches. I would love to see Riccardo, Lando and Alonso in competitive cars next year so I would actually have someone to root for. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by topochico

[vicerous 169]

1 minute ago, topochico said:

Mercedes can bitch all they want, but they had ample opportunity in the latter part of the race to pit and get a fresh set of tires. They played the conservative game, rolled the dice and lost. Poor race management by Toto. Never leave the game in the hands of the officials. 

Did they have a window that I'm forgetting? Certainly wasn't after the VSC. It's not like they could go for it on 4th down to cement the game - I think the race management was pretty great. 

Quote

Also, LH and Max are both whiny unlikable bitches. I would love to see Riccardo, Lando and Alonso in competitive cars next year so I would actually have someone to root for. 

Be careful what you wish for - They're all whiny when they're fighting for the top. Maybe D Ric being the exception - hard not to like him. 

[vicerous 169]

8 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Who is Mercedes appealing to? The FIA president?

FIA Court of Appeals - Apparently CAS is almost entirely for doping oversight. 

[Goofyboy 3,269]

FIA Court of Appeals - Apparently CAS is almost entirely for doping oversight. 

Thank you.

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

FIA Court of Appeals - Apparently CAS is almost entirely for doping oversight. 

Well Masi is a huge dope, so it’s an open and shut case, Johnson!

[topochico 1,049]

21 minutes ago, vicerous said:

Did they have a window that I'm forgetting? Certainly wasn't after the VSC. It's not like they could go for it on 4th down to cement the game - I think the race management was pretty great. 

Be careful what you wish for - They're all whiny when they're fighting for the top. Maybe D Ric being the exception - hard not to like him. 

Both RB cars pitted at lap 36. LH had been on Hards since lap 14. While you can't predict the future, that's a long way to go and not expect someone to bring out the safety car. I think Mercedes had time to pit later in the race and still be in the lead. Maybe I'm wrong and perhaps it doesn't make a difference with Max on his super fresh set of softs though. I am amazed at how quickly they cleared the wreckage. I was sure we were going to finish under yellow. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by topochico

[XYZ 2,154]

54 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Masi knows here that Lewis has zero chance to hold off Max, and just basically admitted to having a huge effect on the results, and indirectly said that it was all for show and that the midfield doesn’t matter.

[Goofyboy 3,269]

They should have finished under yellow, but Massi decided otherwise by making up the rules on the fly.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

6 hours ago, XYZ said:

What difference does that make?

It's not the rule.  They just made up a new rule for the last lap of the race.

[VABuckeye 2,472]

1 hour ago, pops said:

Fuck the offseason!

Fortunately, it's very short.

[vicerous 169]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Jeebus. STFU lurker

Didn't know you missed me! I'm flattered - be sure to follow 

[XYZ 2,154]

6 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

They should have finished under yellow, but Massi decided otherwise by making up the rules on the fly.

So you wanted the race to finish under yellow flag?

[Guest]

Anyone else notice the green flag waving wildly right by Latifi's wrecked car right after it happened?

[vicerous 169]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

So you wanted the race to finish under yellow flag?

It's not what anyone wanted but they made their bed in Spa

[Goofyboy 3,269]

So you wanted the race to finish under yellow flag?

Based on the rules, yes. It is what was supposed to happen.

[Huckleberry 32,848]

Leaders were on lap 52 when it happened right? It was safe for the cars to unlap themselves before lap 57. Masi is a dope but trade him for a competent race director in that moment and Verstappen still wins, just with less controversy. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Based on the rules, yes. It is what was supposed to happen.

Serious question -- Why is that the case? Seemed more like the issue was the late do they/don't they let the lapped cars pass? Could they not have made the call to let them pass right at the start of the safety car and then restart on the last lap? Seemed like they instead delayed the decision until the last moment and then restarted. 

But it's not like they restarted with Latifi's car still on track. 

The rules are the rules, but I also think it would have been crummy to end under yellow if all they are waiting for is for cars to make another lap to the back of the pack while the track was otherwise clear.

Edit: Seems like me an Huck are saying the same thing.

Edited December 12, 2021 by FirstTimeCaller

[Buzzrock 14,902]

3 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

If I’m not mistaken, you’re new to F1, correct? Lewis made the same move on Alex Albon in Brazil last year or the year before. Albon turned in on Hamilton and Albon wrecked. Hamilton was penalized. The only difference this time is Hamilton doesn’t turn in. It was not Max’s corner.

How long has Martin Bundle been watching F1? Because he pretty clearly disagreed with your take. 
 

There was hardly a consensus either way. 

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

Leaders were on lap 52 when it happened right? It was safe for the cars to unlap themselves before lap 57. Masi is a dope but trade him for a competent race director in that moment and Verstappen still wins, just with less controversy. 

No, cars unlap after the track is cleared.

[texas08 1,599]

Wow at all of this is all I can say.

What happened to checos car at the end?

Madness madness madness all around!

[Huckleberry 32,848]

Just now, Anton Chigurh said:

No, cars unlap after the track is cleared.

That's not in the regulations. It's up to the clerk to decide if it's safe. Are we treating the regulations as all that matters or not? 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

You can't possibly say that with a straight face.  Merely "making a corner" is not the litmus test for actually driving the corner in a competitive and sporting manner.  Cornering is braking before the corner, turning into the apex, and unwinding steering out of the apex.  You know - the same way he drove his pole lap.

Braking late into the corner, sliding past the apex (Horner: "he was ahead!"), and THEN applying another 90* of steering lock to turn back into the exit line, is not driving the corner.  There were about 20 replays that showed that exactly - I'm not sure which one you missed.

 

And please no more of the "but nobody lets Max race nonsense", because Perez did exactly that over successive corners as did the Aston Martin pair. 

And then Lewis complained on the radio about Perez's "dangerous driving."

Max does his thing, commentators themselves say it's fine, the stewards say its fine, but here it is dirty. Then people praise Perez (it was great defense), but Hamilton calls it dangerous. I just don't know how anyone can actually race without someone complaining about it. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by FirstTimeCaller

[topochico 1,049]

3 minutes ago, texas08 said:

Wow at all of this is all I can say.

What happened to checos car at the end?

Madness madness madness all around!

I think his car was actually just fine. RB just brought him in for a steak and a BJ. His job was done for the day. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, texas08 said:

Wow at all of this is all I can say.

What happened to checos car at the end?

Madness madness madness all around!

Saw that RB was seeing an issue and didn't want to risk another yellow flag.

[ConferenceRoom 6,141]

And then Lewis complained on the radio about Perez's "dangerous driving."
Max does his thing, commentators themselves say it's fine, the stewards say its fine, but here it is dirty. Then people praise Perez (it was great defense), but Hamilton calls it dangerous. I just don't know how anyone can actually race without someone complaining about it. 

This is exhibit A in why I don’t love Lewis. Checo was fine.

[vicerous 169]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

And then Lewis complained on the radio about Perez's "dangerous driving."

Max does his thing, commentators themselves say it's fine, the stewards say its fine, but here it is dirty. Then people praise Perez (it was great defense), but Hamilton calls it dangerous. I just don't know how anyone can actually race without someone complaining about it. 

It was good clean, aggressive racing - I enjoyed it. I'm sure it was the last thing he wanted to deal with. 

[Guest]

Anybody seen @wood

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

That's not in the regulations. It's up to the clerk to decide if it's safe. Are we treating the regulations as all that matters or not? 

Are you saying that a competent race director is going to OK cars to unlap while there is still personnel and heavy equipment on the track?

[52-80 19,147]

9 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

And then Lewis complained on the radio about Perez's "dangerous driving."

Max does his thing, commentators themselves say it's fine, the stewards say its fine, but here it is dirty. Then people praise Perez (it was great defense), but Hamilton calls it dangerous. I just don't know how anyone can actually race without someone complaining about it. 

The complaint is a red herring.  Lewis complains because that's what he does (I dont even like Lewis). 

That he complained (1) does not make the Perez defending dirty (2) is not confirmed dirty by stewards either.

 

 

[topochico 1,049]

Drivers bitch about other drivers. Receivers ask for pass interference on every play. Soccer players fall down like they have been shot after getting brushed by a butterfly. 

This is the way. 

 

[ConferenceRoom 6,141]

McLaren finishes the season as the only constructor to score a 1-2 at a Grand Prix this year. Nail the regulations, have Danny come good in his second year with the team and baby you got a stew.

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

McLaren finishes the season as the only constructor to score a 1-2 at a Grand Prix this year. Nail the regulations, have Danny come good in his second year with the team and baby you got a stew.

Just as we all predicted.