Formula 1 2021

[dieucla98 2954]

5 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

What happened with Checo's car? Even he was perplexed as to why they had to retire the car with, what, 2 laps remaining?

Looked it up - his engine was "on the limit" and they didn't want to risk another safety car, thereby stopping any chance at a green flag final lap.

[BonzoMontreaux 1137]

16 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Was this ESPN+?

ESPN app synch'ed with my Cable provider.

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Just now, BonzoMontreaux said:

ESPN app synch'ed with my Cable provider.

I ask because I had qualifying results spoiled for me one time because I clicked on Auto Racing to find the on demand broadcast, and they have Highlights and Reactions thumbnails. I realized afterward that if you look for F1 under the Leagues category, you can get to the on demand broadcasts without any of the extra videos that will spoil results. I'm not sure if that's what happened to you, but just an FYI to anyone that might be running into this or hesitant to go into the ESPN app. 

[BonzoMontreaux 1137]

1 minute ago, ConferenceRoom said:

I ask because I had qualifying results spoiled for me one time because I clicked on Auto Racing to find the on demand broadcast, and they have Highlights and Reactions thumbnails. I realized afterward that if you look for F1 under the Leagues category, you can get to the on demand broadcasts without any of the extra videos that will spoil results. I'm not sure if that's what happened to you, but just an FYI to anyone that might be running into this or hesitant to go into the ESPN app. 

I have seen what you are talking about with this app.  When I prepped to watch yesterday, I was having some issues getting the app to load.  It sounds like I may have circumvented my usual route to the On Demand race stuff.  

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, topochico said:

Sir Hamilton is over it too. Now to wait for the new team livery pics.......

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/hamilton-knighted-just-days-f1-125302551.html

Hamilton bends down and kneels in front of Queen Elizabeth.

The 95-year old monarch gently taps his shoulder with the sword before slowly doing the same to the other shoulder. "I dub thee Sir Lewis Hamilton."

Lewis breathlessly responds with "That's some dangerous swordplay."

Edited December 13, 2021 by FirstTimeCaller

[G650 14421]

lol

[wood 11747]

4 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Point out a rule he’s re-written - a procedure rule, not a judgement call on who was in a corner first or giving back an advantage. A procedure of “lapped cars unlap and then on the next lap safety car pits” rule. One that doesn’t hand a race and a championship to one driver, doesn’t give the opportunity to a third driver to also fight for a win, and doesn’t allow other cars to unlap and fight for last points.

Easy. Arbitrarily redifining the track limit as the kerb when it's clearly described in the rules as the white line, then enforcing track limits only on some corners, and differently at every track, often even changing the limit from one session to the next when some driver cries that it's too hard. And of course there's all the running people off on corner exit nonsense. Sometimes the inside driver gets penalized for pushing the other guy off. Sometimes the other guy gets penalized after being forced off, for gaining an advantage off track. Sometimes it's a racing incident or not even noted or investigated. All on very similar, almost identical incidents. It's a crapshoot. Completely arbitrary.

What I've been reading about the lapped car/SC thing is that yes, that's the preferred way of handling it, but that the Race Director has discretion to alter it. I also read that there are two or three rules applying to the scenarion which don't exactly align. And re: the unlapped cars getting to fight for points, most people think it's a good thing - not because they get to fight for points - but because they get out of the way of the battles up front. That's why it even exists. You may not have noticed, but it's done all the time. It's not new. The biggest mistake by Masi on this one is that he could have let the lapped cars go earlier and didn't. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Quote

Verstappen also revealed that he had been sent a message from the Mercedes team principal, Toto Woolf, saying he deserved to win the world title.

“Toto sent me a text. ‘Congratulations on the season’ and that I deserved to win it. So that was very nice of him. Of course, emotions ran very high to that last lap from both sides. Both teams gave it all to the end, and it was just an amazing battle.”

The 24-year-old, who won his first world championship, also paid tribute to Hamilton, saying he was impressed by his sportsmanship.

“Of course it helps that you already have seven titles,” he joked. “I think that comforts him a bit. I think if it’s the other way around, it would be more painful for me. But Lewis is a great sportsman in general. He came up to me and congratulated me. And it must have been very tough in that last lap.

“It also shows the respect we have for each,” added Verstappen. “Of course we had our tough times throughout the season, but in the end, you know, we respect what we were doing and we’re pushing each other to the limit the whole season. So it has been really enjoyable racing against them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/13/lawyer-warns-fia-abu-dhabi-decision-could-be-overturned-in-court

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Also from that article, for anyone wondering about a timeline: 

Quote

However they have given notice of intention to appeal that decision - and now have until 7pm on Thursday to decide whether to go ahead.

 

[G650 14421]

3 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/13/lawyer-warns-fia-abu-dhabi-decision-could-be-overturned-in-court

I'm glad to hear all this

[Doc Sam Beckett 5854]

Now that it's officially the off-season, I'm curious why Mercedes dominates so handily, with only RBR even in the same ballpark. How the hell is Ferrari not competing for the constructors championship? And why are people encouraged that Ferrari and McLaren will compete next year? 

Another thing that I find interesting, there are four teams using the same Mercedes power unit and two teams using the same Honda power unit. Is the chassis that crucial to separate these teams or is it a combination of things? 

[wood 11747]

3 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Honestly I think this would be the best path forward for the sport along with Michael Masi's resignation. 

Yep. 

It'll be better for Merc to let it go, too. I personally just don't see a scenario where taking it to court will reflect well on them. 

If it goes to court, we'll see weeks of press coverage, photos of guys in expensive suits going into court rooms trying to win a sporting event. If Mercedes lose that appeal, they look desperate. If they win the appeal, they'll look like the guys who took away the WDC from Max in the courtroom while Max had zero part in how things turned out. 

There isn't an outcome that will be good for Mercedes imho. Or for F1.  

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

The lapped cars thing is an either/or decision. According to Lando, they get told to unlap about half the time on SC restarts (likely depending on how long the SC is).

Also, lol. This is just last year.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-race-director-masi-explains-norris-f1-eifel-gp-safety-car-decision-4978255/4978255/

Masi said that was the only reason for the length of the safety car.

"That one was the fact that we had to, there's a requirement in the sporting regulations, to wave all lapped cars past," Masi said.

"I think from that point, it was position 6 onwards that was still running.

"So 10, 11 cars, that had to unlap themselves, and therefore the safety car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected."

[G650 14421]

1 minute ago, wood said:

It'll be better for Merc to let it go, too. I personally just don't see a scenario where taking it to court will reflect well on them. 

I think they do let it go tbh.

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

I think the FIA/Masi would get eviscerated in court.

However, at this point I think that the only realistic outcome would be monetary damages.

[G650 14421]

9 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Now that it's officially the off-season, I'm curious why Mercedes dominates so handily, with only RBR even in the same ballpark. How the hell is Ferrari not competing for the constructors championship? And why are people encouraged that Ferrari and McLaren will compete next year? 

Another thing that I find interesting, there are four teams using the same Mercedes power unit and two teams using the same Honda power unit. Is the chassis that crucial to separate these teams or is it a combination of things? 

Well, first of all Mercedes is a very good team top to bottom. The only thing that got RBR back in was Adrian Newey and Honda finally getting the power unit right.

 

But in answering your first question, during generational changes in F1, usually one team hits on something early that gives them a big gap, last time it was Mercedes, and closing that gap from behind is very, very difficult when you are following a class team like Merc. It's not impossible, and Ferrari actually came close and now RBR has done it, but it's such an incremental process that it takes a long time. But the upside is as we change again, teams are all gonna have ability to get in the mix. Mercedes is still super well funded and will have a big advantage into pouring resources into next year already, but Ferrari has been too. The mountain is a little taller for McLaren imo, but who knows.

 

The second part is a combination of things. Chassis is huge, but the teams also make choices on their power units even though they are nominally the same.

[wood 11747]

6 minutes ago, G650 said:

I think they do let it go tbh.

I do, too.

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Yes! Good lad. 

[wood 11747]

14 minutes ago, G650 said:

Well, first of all Mercedes is a very good team top to bottom. The only thing that got RBR back in was Adrian Newey and Honda finally getting the power unit right.

But in answering your first question, during generational changes in F1, usually one team hits on something early that gives them a big gap, last time it was Mercedes, and closing that gap from behind is very, very difficult when you are following a class team like Merc. It's not impossible, and Ferrari actually came close and now RBR has done it, but it's such an incremental process that it takes a long time. But the upside is as we change again, teams are all gonna have ability to get in the mix. Mercedes is still super well funded and will have a big advantage into pouring resources into next year already, but Ferrari has been too. The mountain is a little taller for McLaren imo, but who knows.

That's an oversimplification that favors Merc. They didn't just read the new PU rules and "hit on something early that gave them a big gap". They had a huge lead on that technology and lobbied hard for it (throwing their weight around and threatening to leave F1 if they didn't get it, iirc). Then they lobbied for the token restrictions, which made it all but impossible for the other PU manufacturers - who were already at a massive disadvantage & basically starting from scratch - to claw back significant performance gains. It took 8 seasons for a PU that wasn't a cheat to even get close to Merc's PU. 8 seasons. And still nobody has actually caught up. The incrememntal token system didn't have to be so restrictive, and that actually goes against the idea of F1 being a testbed for new technology development.

Edited December 13, 2021 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Also, to be clear, Mercedes still hasn't been beaten as a constructor during the hybrid era. 

[G650 14421]

5 minutes ago, wood said:

That's an oversimplification that favors Merc. They didn't just "hit on something early that gave them a big gap". They had a huge lead on that technology and lobbied hard for it (throwing their weight around and threatening to leave F1 if they didn't get it, iirc). Then they lobbied for the token restrictions, which made it all but impossible for PU manufacturers - who were already at a massive disadvantage - to claw back significant performance gains. It took 8 seasons for a PU that wasn't a cheat to even get close to Merc's PU. The incrememntal token system didn't have to be so restrictive, and that actually goes against the idea of F1 being a testbed for new technology development.

[wood 11747]

Just now, G650 said:

 

Hate? Nah. I'm just injecting some reality into the "Merc just got it right while everyone else missed it" mantra.

[NoName 17107]

8 minutes ago, wood said:

Hate? Nah. I'm just injecting some reality into the "Merc just got it right while everyone else missed it" mantra.

the concept that everyone missed it for EIGHT YEARS while spending $Texas EVER YEAR for the last 7-8 years is hilarious

Ferrari spent ~$530m in R&D in 2016 alone i believe.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by NoName

[Goofyboy 3428]

Easy. Arbitrarily redifining the track limit as the kerb when it's clearly described in the rules as the white line, then enforcing track limits only on some corners, and differently at every track, often even changing the limit from one session to the next when some driver cries that it's too hard. And of course there's all the running people off on corner exit nonsense. Sometimes the inside driver gets penalized for pushing the other guy off. Sometimes the other guy gets penalized after being forced off, for gaining an advantage off track. Sometimes it's a racing incident or not even noted or investigated. All on very similar, almost identical incidents. It's a crapshoot. Completely arbitrary.
What I've been reading about the lapped car/SC thing is that yes, that's the preferred way of handling it, but that the Race Director has discretion to alter it. I also read that there are two or three rules applying to the scenarion which don't exactly align. And re: the unlapped cars getting to fight for points, most people think it's a good thing - not because they get to fight for points - but because they get out of the way of the battles up front. That's why it even exists. You may not have noticed, but it's done all the time. It's not new. The biggest mistake by Masi on this one is that he could have let the lapped cars go earlier and didn't. 

Is there a rule that overrules the white line by saying track limits are defined weekly? If not, then why the fuck have rules in the first place. Damn, Massi and Liberty have made a mess of things.

I don’t remember Charlie (right?) being THIS involved in races.

[G650 14421]

6 minutes ago, wood said:

Hate? Nah. I'm just injecting some reality into the "Merc just got it right while everyone else missed it" mantra.

Well if you go reread what I wrote, I didn't say everyone else missed it. I said it's hard to make up that kind of gap, and it is.

[NoName 17107]

2 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Is there a rule that overrules the white line by saying track limits are defined weekly? If not, then why the fuck have rules in the first place. Damn, Massi and Liberty have made a mess of things.

I don’t remember Charlie (right?) being THIS involved in races.

i mean, Liberty has gotten everything they wanted. more eyes. more discussion. DTS. it's worked great for them, they paid $4.6 billion and i bet their F1 stake has gone way up in the last 12 months

[wood 11747]

7 minutes ago, NoName said:

the concept that everyone missed it for EIGHT YEARS while spending $Texas EVER YEAR for the last 7-8 years is hilarious

Ferrari spent ~$530m in R&D in 2016 alone i believe.

 

Yep. It's a crazy complex and super-expensive PU, which of course is why Merc wanted it (in addition to the fact that they had already spent a ton of time and resources on it themselves before even getting approved as the new PU concept}.

[wood 11747]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

Well if you go reread what I wrote, I didn't say everyone else missed it. I said it's hard to make up that kind of gap, and it is.

Yep, you said that, but that is a massive understatement in this case. It's not just inherently hard to make up that kind of gap. It's damn near impossible to make up that kind of gap when you're so severely limited in development.

[wood 11747]

6 minutes ago, NoName said:

i mean, Liberty has gotten everything they wanted. more eyes. more discussion. DTS. it's worked great for them, they paid $4.6 billion and i bet their F1 stake has gone way up in the last 12 months

Yep. And I figure they'll be pushing for as much nonsense and controversy as they can going forward. It's like Bernie x 1000. I remember when Liberty bought F1 and a lot of people said "Welp, has to be better than Bernie & CVC". 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5854]

40 minutes ago, G650 said:

Well, first of all Mercedes is a very good team top to bottom. The only thing that got RBR back in was Adrian Newey and Honda finally getting the power unit right.

 

But in answering your first question, during generational changes in F1, usually one team hits on something early that gives them a big gap, last time it was Mercedes, and closing that gap from behind is very, very difficult when you are following a class team like Merc. It's not impossible, and Ferrari actually came close and now RBR has done it, but it's such an incremental process that it takes a long time. But the upside is as we change again, teams are all gonna have ability to get in the mix. Mercedes is still super well funded and will have a big advantage into pouring resources into next year already, but Ferrari has been too. The mountain is a little taller for McLaren imo, but who knows.

 

The second part is a combination of things. Chassis is huge, but the teams also make choices on their power units even though they are nominally the same.

Thanks, this helps. How often do they have the generational changes? It sounds like 2022 is one of those years? 

[wood 11747]

12 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Is there a rule that overrules the white line by saying track limits are defined weekly? If not, then why the fuck have rules in the first place. Damn, Massi and Liberty have made a mess of things.

I don’t remember Charlie (right?) being THIS involved in races.

None that I know of - while the rules clearly delineate the limit of the track as the white line:

27.3 Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

And yeah I didn't always agree with Charlie, but he was leaps and bounds ahead of Masi. Charlie at least could offer a somewhat plausible, rational explanation for his decisions, and he was far more consistent.

[wood 11747]

3 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Thanks, this helps. How often do they have the generational changes? It sounds like 2022 is one of those years? 

In 2022, we get new rules governing the cars, but not the PUs. In 2026 we get new (hopefully much simpler & less costly) PUs. But Merc has been fighting that all the way.

[sidis 9990]

so...anything interesting happen in the last race?

[Goofyboy 3428]

None that I know of - while the rules clearly delineate the limit of the track as the white line:
27.3 Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
And yeah I didn't always agree with Charlie, but he was leaps and bounds ahead of Masi. Charlie at least could offer a somewhat plausible, rational explanation for his decisions, and he was far more consistent.

I did not know that. Thank you. Then, I’m even less interested now. I thought it was a judgement thing race to race based on the stewards. How hard is it to follow the fucking rules when you’re the guy enforcing them.

Judgement calls (who owned a corner) are similar to PI calls in football. I can get over those. But, an out right ignoring of rules week to week makes no sense to me.

[vicerous 169]

1 hour ago, wood said:

What I've been reading about the lapped car/SC thing is that yes, that's the preferred way of handling it, but that the Race Director has discretion to alter it. I also read that there are two or three rules applying to the scenarion which don't exactly align. And re: the unlapped cars getting to fight for points, most people think it's a good thing - not because they get to fight for points - but because they get out of the way of the battles up front. That's why it even exists. You may not have noticed, but it's done all the time. It's not new. The biggest mistake by Masi on this one is that he could have let the lapped cars go earlier and didn't. 

I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. Two very normal procedures were done in ways that, to my knowledge, have never been done. This was a lot more than a gentle massaging of grey areas.

[G650 14421]

8 minutes ago, wood said:

In 2022, we get new rules governing the cars, but not the PUs. In 2026 we get new (hopefully much simpler & less costly) PUs. But Merc has been fighting that all the way.

The PUs are frozen though. And Merc has not been fighting it the whole way.

 

The problem, and RBR is making a massive error here taking their motors in house, is that while anyone can point to how much money a Ferrari spends, and damn they got deep pockets, the cold truth is that Ferrari is an engineering backwater on this type of engine development capacity compared to a Mercedes or Honda. RBR will fall into this trap as well. Resetting the spec is going to favor industrial behemoths. It took Honda several fits and starts to get their shit straight coming back to the sport, and they are super capable. So while @NoNameis correct on Ferrari spend/return , it's not representative of what a full blown operation can do, Honda became competitive with Mercedes in a little over three years starting from scratch.

 

Plus while Merc had a good run with this PU, it's nothing we haven't seen before which is why I wouldn't give a melodramatic exposition on it when I answered Beckett. I have watched this movie many times. When Barnard drew up the MP4/1, it set the tone for a whole decade of dominance. McLaren won 7 of 8 drivers champs, which is better than Schumies sorry ass, and equaled only by Mercedes today. It's my first memories of F1, and I can vividly remember how revolutionary the cars looked with Prost and Lauda. With almost 200 less HP they were so much faster it was insane. This happens over and over in F1, and the cycle will continue.

[NoName 17107]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

The PUs are frozen though. And Merc has not been fighting it the whole way.

The problem, and RBR is making a massive error here taking their motors in house, is that while anyone can point to how much money a Ferrari spends, and damn they got deep pockets, the cold truth is that Ferrari is an engineering backwater on this type of engine development capacity compared to a Mercedes or Honda. RBR will fall into this trap as well. Resetting the spec is going to favor industrial behemoths. It took Honda several fits and starts to get their shit straight coming back to the sport, and they are super capable. So while @NoNameis correct on Ferrari spend/return , it's not representative of what a full blown operation can do, Honda became competitive with Mercedes in a little over three years starting from scratch.

Plus while Merc had a good run with this PU, it's nothing we haven't seen before which is why I wouldn't give a melodramatic exposition on it when I answered Beckett. I have watched this movie many times. When Barnard drew up the MP4/1, it set the tone for a whole decade of dominance. McLaren won 7 of 8 drivers champs, which is better than Schumies sorry ass, and equaled only by Mercedes today. It's my first memories of F1, and I can vividly remember how revolutionary the cars looked with Prost and Lauda. With almost 200 less HP they were so much faster it was insane. This happens over and over in F1, and the cycle will continue.

not disagreeing with you on RBR making an error going in house, but what were their options in the short term?

they can't go with Mercedes. They had a hell of a split from Renault. Ferrari?

i mean at this point, F1 has to do something to make a change. Renault is down to supplying 1 team!

 

[G650 14421]

4 minutes ago, NoName said:

not disagreeing with you on RBR making an error going in house, but what were their options in the short term?

they can't go with Mercedes. They had a hell of a split from Renault. Ferrari?

i mean at this point, F1 has to do something to make a change. Renault is down to supplying 1 team!

 

 

Yeah, I don't know. It's a really fucked situation. The PU freeze basically buys them time to figure it out, but I'm guessing they will have to really go for a lot of spec modules for the things to make it so more people can compete. I will say I think RBR are fine to manage the mature PU, I don't think that is an issue. But going from scratch next time is a hell of an ask.

[wood 11747]

21 minutes ago, vicerous said:

I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. Two very normal procedures were done in ways that, to my knowledge, have never been done. This was a lot more than a gentle massaging of grey areas.

Deliberately obtuse? Shut the fuck up.

Merc tears are the best tears ...

 

[vicerous 169]

Just now, wood said:

Deliberately obtuse? Shut the fuck up.

Merc tears are the best tears ...

 

Absolutely. We're Texas fans after all - no more tears left after these few years. 

[aggie08 21733]

38 minutes ago, sidis said:

so...anything interesting happen in the last race?

Pretty processional. The pole winner won the race for the 7th straight time. BORING.

[kevwun 16269]

13 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

Yeah, I don't know. It's a really fucked situation. The PU freeze basically buys them time to figure it out, but I'm guessing they will have to really go for a lot of spec modules for the things to make it so more people can compete. I will say I think RBR are fine to manage the mature PU, I don't think that is an issue. But going from scratch next time is a hell of an ask.

Lot of things can change between now and them.  They may not be planning on making their own engines long term.

[wood 11747]

38 minutes ago, G650 said:

The PUs are frozen though. And Merc has not been fighting it the whole way.

Merc absolutely has fought the simplification of the PU tooth and nail until recently, when they were assured of "certain conditions being met", whatever that means. More than likely, $$$ in some form. 

Re: RBR bringing the engines in-house, I admit it could be problematic, but they aren't going to be in the dark, without help from Honda. Hell, do we even know who's going to actually build the PUs? It's really just a rebranding of a Honda PU, after all. And re: the next PU formula, they might go with another manufacturer, or even back to Honda. Who knows? They aren't locked into building that PU.

Edited December 13, 2021 by wood

[Goofyboy 3428]

Pretty processional. The pole winner won the manufactured ending of the race. BORING.

[Prepuce of Doom 21260]

1 hour ago, wood said:

 

And yeah I didn't always agree with Charlie, but he was leaps and bounds ahead of Masi. Charlie at least could offer a somewhat plausible, rational explanation for his decisions, and he was far more consistent.

For all I know, this was worse under Whiting (meaning that this observation may simply be due to a change in what gets broadcast now versus then, or maybe my memory is failing me because it might not support my current attitude), but I feel like the recent trend where Horner, Toto, and others are constantly whining and wheedling and arguing with the race director have turned the sport into some kind of secondary competition in advocacy. 

And rather than trying to achieve the best and most reliable outcomes, Masi is now also trying to win a popularity contest. Reminds me of the differences between elected and appointed judges... 

Again, maybe it's just featured on the broadcast more now for a whole host of reasons (or maybe it's the same as it has always been), but I don't feel like there was this much insolence and argument before Masi darkened our collective doorstep. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Prepuce of Doom

[kevwun 16269]

Can you imagine the dumb shit we would hear if the conversations head coaches in the various pro leagues have with the refs during games was a part of the broadcast?  And if they had a direct line to talk to their league's commissioner during games?  It would be pretty funny to hear Mike McCarthy ask a ref to explain to him how timeouts work every single week.

Edited December 13, 2021 by kevwun

[wood 11747]

3 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

For all I know, this was worse under Whiting (meaning that this observation may simply be due to a change in what gets broadcast now versus then, or maybe my memory is failing me because it might not support my current attitude), but I feel like the recent trend where Horner, Toto, and others are constantly whining and wheedling and arguing with the race director have turned the sport into some kind of secondary competition in advocacy. 

And rather than trying to achieve the best and most reliable outcomes, Masi is now also trying to win a popularity contest. Reminds me of the differences between elected and appointed judges... 

Again, maybe it's just featured on the broadcast more now for a whole host of reasons, but I don't feel like there was this much insolence and argument before Masi darkened our collective doorstep. 

Absolutely. I don't know if the comms were two-way under Charlie, but it's really, really a terrible, embarrassing system.

Radio comms between the Race Director and the Teams should go one way and one way only - from the RD to the teams. Period. No lobbying & crying. No bickering. No negotiating. At the very least, calls up to race control should go to someone dedicated to just fielding those calls, freeing up the RD to process data and make timely decisions without constant calls in his ear complaining or lobbying. The RD has a job to do and with each Team Principal and Team Comms Director each trying to talk to him, things can get extremely busy, then if you add in the Stewards having their own communications it's no wonder things take forever to get done sometimes.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, wood said:

Absolutely. I don't know if the comms were two-way under Charlie, but it's really, really a terrible, embarrassing system.

Radio comms between the Race Director and the Teams should go one way and one way only - from the RD to the teams. Period. No lobbying & crying. No bickering. No negotiating. At the very least, calls up to race control should go to someone dedicated to just fielding those calls, freeing up the RD to process data and make timely decisions without constant calls in his ear complaining or lobbying. The RD has a job to do and with each Team Principal and Team Comms Director each trying to talk to him, things can get extremely busy, then if you add in the Stewards having their own communications it's no wonder things take forever to get done sometimes.

Don't forget zee emails, Michael! Did you zee my email?!

[G650 14421]

11 minutes ago, wood said:

Merc absolutely has fought the simplification of the PU tooth and nail until recently, when they were assured of "certain conditions being met", whatever that means. More than likely, $$$ in some form. 

Re: RBR bringing the engines in-house, I admit it could be problematic, but they aren't going to be in the dark, without help from Honda. Hell, do we even know who's going to actually build the PUs? It's really just a rebranding of a Honda PU, after all. And re: the next PU formula, they might go with another manufacturer, or even back to Honda. Who knows? They aren't locked into building that PU.

 

Oh yeah, no doubt. That's why I said to NoName I think it's no issue with the freeze. RBR can certainly manage the Honda PU on their own. What they ultimately do in the long run is yet to be seen, but with this investment I think they are certainly putting pieces in place to do it themselves which I think is a big error. I think Honda is probably out, so they would have to get someone else. But mostly I still think F1 needs to do something to either expand the PU maker pool, or just go single supplier. It can't live in this in between zone.

 

15 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Lot of things can change between now and them.  They may not be planning on making their own engines long term.

Yeah, who knows.

[G650 14421]

31 minutes ago, wood said:

 

Merc tears are the best tears ...

 

Man you cry about Mercedes more than any Mercedes team fan cries about anything else lol.