Formula 1 2021

[vicerous 169]

Unfortunately I don't see two-way comms (or public ones) going away any time soon. It's an entertainment goldmine and it's now an entertainment-first sport. It's the candor of an NFL Films player mic combined but turbocharged. I would absolutely agree that the RD should be free of any outside interference - even put an intermediary between himself and the teams. Anything to avoid the cringey back & forth (from both sides). 

[wood 11747]

31 minutes ago, G650 said:

Man you cry about Mercedes more than any Mercedes team fan cries about anything else lol.

[vicerous 169]

38 minutes ago, G650 said:

Man you cry about Mercedes more than any Mercedes team fan cries about anything else lol.

But that damned Lewis Hamilton was wearing calfskin boots! Didn't you see?!

[wood 11747]

1 minute ago, vicerous said:

But that damned Lewis Hamilton was wearing calfskin boots! Didn't you see?!

LOL. I don't care if he has an entire collection of calfskin Elvis jumpsuits, as long as he doesn't constantly cry like a little bitch about the cattle industry, etc.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, G650 said:

Man you cry about Mercedes more than any Mercedes team fan cries about anything else lol.

Lol. Coming from the guy who complained that "Max didn't acknowledge" Lewis Hamilton on the podium. And then despite being shown that Max absolutely did acknowledge Hamilton on the podium, before the podium, and in interviews afterward, decided to say he stood by what he said instead of just admitting he was wrong.

Although now I'm sure you're going to say you aren't a Lewis Hamilton fan, nor a Mercedes fan.

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Please stop bickering. 

[Guest]

Just now, ConferenceRoom said:

Please stop bickering. 

Why don't you stop bickering!

[G650 14421]

8 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Lol. Coming from the guy who complained that "Max didn't acknowledge" Lewis Hamilton on the podium. And then despite being shown that Max absolutely did acknowledge Hamilton on the podium, before the podium, and in interviews afterward, decided to say he stood by what he said instead of just admitting he was wrong.

Although now I'm sure you're going to say you aren't a Lewis Hamilton fan, nor a Mercedes fan.

Only one of us seems unable to let go, and it isn't me. The video you posted shows Hamilton congratulating Max (not them congratulating each other), then after that Horner shakes Hamilton's hand to congratulate him on his second and Max turns his back. It's literally exactly what I said. But please keep beating the dead horse man.

 

I am not Hamilton fan, and if you didn't show up yesterday you would have seen all of us saying the same things about him I say about max now minus the wife beater dad part. He was a fucking bitchy menace when he started.

I am not a Mercedes/Brawn fan either, that is certainly true. I am a big Mercedes motor fan, have been since the 90s. Mercedes McLaren is my all time team.

[Slacks 7024]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:49 AM, Goofyboy said:

I don’t think it was unintentional. I think they got what they wanted given they had roughly 4 laps to decide. Massi said no over taking of the lapped cars. I think he was overruled.

All the drivers seem to think this, too.

[Slacks 7024]

I had no idea how intense the fans would be about Max & Lewis.

I've only been watching F1 for the last 3 years or so, since my son is in karting...  and I know a lot of people don't like LH44 for what seems to be some suspicious reason... and I gather people think Max drives recklessly (first thing I noticed about him when he seemed to crash LeClerc every week...)

But I didn't realize it was this serious.

I am amazed by Lewis and his 7 championships.  I am intrigued by Max and his IDGAF way of driving into the turns.  I don't know either of them personally, but it seems like everyone else does.  What have I missed?

[G650 14421]

9 minutes ago, Snacks said:

I had no idea how intense the fans would be about Max & Lewis.

I've only been watching F1 for the last 3 years or so, since my son is in karting...  and I know a lot of people don't like LH44 for what seems to be some suspicious reason... and I gather people think Max drives recklessly (first thing I noticed about him when he seemed to crash LeClerc every week...)

But I didn't realize it was this serious.

I am amazed by Lewis and his 7 championships.  I am intrigued by Max and his IDGAF way of driving into the turns.  I don't know either of them personally, but it seems like everyone else does.  What have I missed?

Polemica!

[Chewbacca 7827]

4 hours ago, vicerous said:

I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. Two very normal procedures were done in ways that, to my knowledge, have never been done. This was a lot more than a gentle massaging of grey areas.

Well, yeah, it benefited his guy so he's OK with it.  Had it been Max that got hosed at the end, he'd be apoplectic.

[Chewbacca 7827]

4 hours ago, G650 said:

The problem, and RBR is making a massive error here taking their motors in house,

Saw an interview with Horner about this and RBR was basically forced into it.  Toto said fuck off when approached about engines and Ferrari said the same.  So it was either do it yourself or go with Renault, which wasn't happening since they just left Renault a few years ago.  They chose to do it themselves.  Not sure how well it's going to work out for them,  I agree with you there.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Chewbacca

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

The PUs are frozen though. And Merc has not been fighting it the whole way.
 
The problem, and RBR is making a massive error here taking their motors in house, is that while anyone can point to how much money a Ferrari spends, and damn they got deep pockets, the cold truth is that Ferrari is an engineering backwater on this type of engine development capacity compared to a Mercedes or Honda. RBR will fall into this trap as well. Resetting the spec is going to favor industrial behemoths. It took Honda several fits and starts to get their shit straight coming back to the sport, and they are super capable. So while [mention=1955]NoName[/mention]is correct on Ferrari spend/return , it's not representative of what a full blown operation can do, Honda became competitive with Mercedes in a little over three years starting from scratch.
 
Plus while Merc had a good run with this PU, it's nothing we haven't seen before which is why I wouldn't give a melodramatic exposition on it when I answered Beckett. I have watched this movie many times. When Barnard drew up the MP4/1, it set the tone for a whole decade of dominance. McLaren won 7 of 8 drivers champs, which is better than Schumies sorry ass, and equaled only by Mercedes today. It's my first memories of F1, and I can vividly remember how revolutionary the cars looked with Prost and Lauda. With almost 200 less HP they were so much faster it was insane. This happens over and over in F1, and the cycle will continue.

This is an excellent post and I fully agree with it.

I also think they are in over their heads, but to be fair, they didn’t have much of a choice and so they are going for it, and from that point it is at least admirable.

Long term they really need someone like Porsche/Volkswagen to step in (I’m sure you’d LOVE that, hahah).

FWIW, the 2025 PU is essentially the current one without the MGU-H and some other tweaks to be optimized for natural aspiration.

Another side note to some of the other discussion here, but since Mercedes returned as an engine manufacturer, they have always had class-leading mills. If not the best, right there at the top. They literally partnered with and eventually took over Ilmor, who was already a giant in the racing engine world at the time, and became even better.

If you want a cool Ilmor-Mercedes engine story, read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_500I_engine?wprov=sfti1

[utee94 16066]

31 minutes ago, Snacks said:

I had no idea how intense the fans would be about Max & Lewis.

I've only been watching F1 for the last 3 years or so, since my son is in karting...  and I know a lot of people don't like LH44 for what seems to be some suspicious reason...

There's nothing suspicious about it.  People who have been following the sport for decades instead of 3 years don't like him because he was an immature dickface for many years.  Over time he has matured and IMO he's gotten a lot better, but some folks still hold his past against him and as has been discussed ad nauseum, his new maturity also sometimes comes across as an insincere act, pushed on him by his PR team.

He's really not much different than Max.  Which I suppose is why fanbois from #bothsides are so polarized.

I don't really like either one of them, so that makes me #nosides.

Viva Ferrari!

 

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

There's nothing suspicious about it.  People who have been following the sport for decades instead of 3 years don't like him because he was an immature dickface for many years.  Over time he has matured and IMO he's gotten a lot better, but some folks still hold his past against him and as has been discussed ad nauseum, his new maturity also sometimes comes across as an insincere act, pushed on him by his PR team.
He's really not much different than Max.  Which I suppose is why fanbois from #bothsides are so polarized.
I don't really like either one of them, so that makes me #nosides.
Viva Ferrari!
 

I’d say that is pretty false. There are tons of us who have followed him since McLaren.

[utee94 16066]

2 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I’d say that is pretty false. There are tons of us who have followed him since McLaren.

Huh?  What's pretty false?  Are you suggesting hat there are NOT people who've followed the sports for decades, that think he was a dickface then, and still hold it against him?

I don't think you read my post correctly.  I'm not saying all fans that have followed the sport for decades dislike him.  I'm saying there are fans that have followed the sport for decades, as opposed to snacks who's admittedly only watched it for 3 years, and that they disliked him as a young asshole driver going that far back, and it has nothing to do with anything "suspicious" that a fan of only 3 years might be suggesting.

Edited December 13, 2021 by utee94

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

Huh?  What's pretty false?  Are you denying that there are NOT people who've followed the sports for decades, that think he was a dickface then?  I don't think you read my post correctly.

No, but you made it seem like anyone who has followed the sport for a long time doesn’t like him, like all of his fans are new or something.

If you’d have said *some* people, sure. I see what you were getting at, though.

[utee94 16066]

Just now, Anton Chigurh said:

No, but you made it seem like anyone who has followed the sport for a long time doesn’t like him, like all of his fans are new or something.

If you’d have said *some* people, sure.

Eh.  Read my clarification.  I think you've read my posts around here long enough to cut me some slack.  

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

Lol, we were both editing our posts at the same time.

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

I had no idea how intense the fans would be about Max & Lewis.
I've only been watching F1 for the last 3 years or so, since my son is in karting...  and I know a lot of people don't like LH44 for what seems to be some suspicious reason... and I gather people think Max drives recklessly (first thing I noticed about him when he seemed to crash LeClerc every week...)
But I didn't realize it was this serious.
I am amazed by Lewis and his 7 championships.  I am intrigued by Max and his IDGAF way of driving into the turns.  I don't know either of them personally, but it seems like everyone else does.  What have I missed?

Also, this is really damn cool that your kid is karting.

[Goofyboy 3428]

Massi really fucked up. This should be a fun off season and I hope Merc pushes the issue. Massi needs to go and the regulations need to be followed (all of them, including the track is the white fucking lines).


”There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past,” he later told Motorsport Week.

That was 2020 after the Eifel GP. Maybe he didn’t understand the definition of requirement.

[G650 14421]

21 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

FWIW, the 2025 PU is essentially the current one without the MGU-H and some other tweaks to be optimized for natural aspiration.

 

Indeed.

21 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Another side note to some of the other discussion here, but since Mercedes returned as an engine manufacturer, they have always had class-leading mills. If not the best, right there at the top. They literally partnered with and eventually took over Ilmor, who was already a giant in the racing engine world at the time, and became even better.

If you want a cool Ilmor-Mercedes engine story, read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_500I_engine?wprov=sfti1

Yeah, as I mentioned I'm a big fan of their motors going way back. The mechanical engineer in me definitely geeks out on motors. Random, but we buy a lot of Liebherr excavators out of Germany, and back in the day they were sourced with Mercedes diesels before making their own engines starting late 80s. So there's some nostalgia there too.

[G650 14421]

24 minutes ago, utee94 said:

There's nothing suspicious about it.  People who have been following the sport for decades instead of 3 years don't like him because he was an immature dickface for many years.  Over time he has matured and IMO he's gotten a lot better, but some folks still hold his past against him and as has been discussed ad nauseum, his new maturity also sometimes comes across as an insincere act, pushed on him by his PR team.

He's really not much different than Max.  Which I suppose is why fanbois from #bothsides are so polarized.

I don't really like either one of them, so that makes me #nosides.

Viva Ferrari!

 

 

I was with you till that Ferrari nonsense

[naija 2961]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Huh?  What's pretty false?  Are you suggesting hat there are NOT people who've followed the sports for decades, that think he was a dickface then, and still hold it against him?

I don't think you read my post correctly.  I'm not saying all fans that have followed the sport for decades dislike him.  I'm saying there are fans that have followed the sport for decades, as opposed to snacks who's admittedly only watched it for 3 years, and that they disliked him as a young asshole driver going that far back, and it has nothing to do with anything "suspicious" that a fan of only 3 years might be suggesting.

yeah, false.

followed for longer than I've been in the US. G650 maybe longer? to say that none of the Lewis Hamilton hate has to do with who he is, is false.

[wood 11747]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Well, yeah, it benefited his guy so he's OK with it.  Had it been Max that got hosed at the end, he'd be apoplectic.

Meh.That's some weak-ass shit, and you know it. I've wtchedHamilton get break after break after break from the stewards for 8 years. And I've watched the stewards be all over the fucking map with their rulings for the entire 2021 season. When things don't go Little LuLu's way for a race or 1 WDC, it's his fans that are going apoplectic. Merc just lost their 1st championship out of 16 possible championships in the last 8 years, and oh, the humanity! Won't someone think of the children?

[wood 11747]

2 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

This is an excellent post and I fully agree with it.

I also think they are in over their heads, but to be fair, they didn’t have much of a choice and so they are going for it, and from that point it is at least admirable.

Long term they really need someone like Porsche/Volkswagen to step in (I’m sure you’d LOVE that, hahah).

FWIW, the 2025 PU is essentially the current one without the MGU-H and some other tweaks to be optimized for natural aspiration.

Another side note to some of the other discussion here, but since Mercedes returned as an engine manufacturer, they have always had class-leading mills. If not the best, right there at the top. They literally partnered with and eventually took over Ilmor, who was already a giant in the racing engine world at the time, and became even better.

If you want a cool Ilmor-Mercedes engine story, read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_500I_engine?wprov=sfti1

 

Delayed to 2026, sadly, fyi.

[naija 2961]

6 hours ago, G650 said:

The PUs are frozen though. And Merc has not been fighting it the whole way.

 

The problem, and RBR is making a massive error here taking their motors in house, is that while anyone can point to how much money a Ferrari spends, and damn they got deep pockets, the cold truth is that Ferrari is an engineering backwater on this type of engine development capacity compared to a Mercedes or Honda. RBR will fall into this trap as well. Resetting the spec is going to favor industrial behemoths. It took Honda several fits and starts to get their shit straight coming back to the sport, and they are super capable. So while @NoNameis correct on Ferrari spend/return , it's not representative of what a full blown operation can do, Honda became competitive with Mercedes in a little over three years starting from scratch.

 

Plus while Merc had a good run with this PU, it's nothing we haven't seen before which is why I wouldn't give a melodramatic exposition on it when I answered Beckett. I have watched this movie many times. When Barnard drew up the MP4/1, it set the tone for a whole decade of dominance. McLaren won 7 of 8 drivers champs, which is better than Schumies sorry ass, and equaled only by Mercedes today. It's my first memories of F1, and I can vividly remember how revolutionary the cars looked with Prost and Lauda. With almost 200 less HP they were so much faster it was insane. This happens over and over in F1, and the cycle will continue.

alright, Prost and Lauda.

haha, yeah longer.

[Chewbacca 7827]

6 minutes ago, wood said:

Meh.That's some weak-ass shit, and you know it. I've wtchedHamilton get break after break after break from the stewards for 8 years. And I've watched the stewards be all over the fucking map with their rulings for the entire 2021 season. When things don't go Little LuLu's way for a race or 1 WDC, it's his fans that are going apoplectic. Merc just lost their 1st championship out of 16 possible championships in the last 8 years, and oh, the humanity! Won't someone think of the children?

No, it's not.  You're 100% a Max fanboy and are definitely willing to look past this clear breach of the rules because it favored your guy.  This was way more than inconsistent stewarding.  It's not on Max or RBR, it's on Masi and the FIA.  But they handed the title to Max on a platter by making up new rules as they went.  Masi was so hell bent on not finishing the race under a safety car that he created a huge mess for himself and it will hopefully cost him his job.

 

Shit, you can't even call Lewis by his name.  And 100% had this happened to Max instead of Lewis, you would be beside yourself right now.  Don't deny it.

[wood 11747]

17 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

No, it's not.  You're 100% a Max fanboy and are definitely willing to look past this clear breach of the rules because it favored your guy.  This was way more than inconsistent stewarding.  It's not on Max or RBR, it's on Masi and the FIA.  But they handed the title to Max on a platter by making up new rules as they went.  Masi was so hell bent on not finishing the race under a safety car that he created a huge mess for himself and it will hopefully cost him his job.

 

Shit, you can't even call Lewis by his name.  And 100% had this happened to Max instead of Lewis, you would be beside yourself right now.  Don't deny it.

Oh, I guess you know better than me then about what I think. You like putting words in people's mouths. You must be a chick. 

Max isn't my favorite driver, or 2nd favorite driver, or 3rd favorite driver. Maybe not even 4th. Did I want him to win? Yep. I'm sick of seeing Lewis cruise to easy championships in absolutely dominant cars. It was definitely fun to watch him lose a 3rd championship while driving the fastest car - or am I missing any others?

Cry some more. The tears are sublime. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by wood

[Chewbacca 7827]

2 minutes ago, wood said:

Oh, I guess you know better than me then about what I think. You like putting words in people's mouths. You must be a chick. 

Max isn't my favorite driver, or 2nd favorite driver, or 3rd favorite driver. Maybe not even 4th. Did I want him to win? Yep. I'm sick of seeing Lewis cruise to easy championships in absolutely dominant cars. It was definitely fun to watch him lose a 3rd championship while driving the fastest car - or am I missing any others?

Cry some more. The tears are sublime.

I'm only crying about Danny's terrible race (and season, outside of Monza) and Masi making up rules.  Definitely not a Lewis fan, but that title was stolen from him by Masi.  Either you have rules or you don't.  This is far worse than track limits or steward decisions.  This is a stain on F1.  A big one.  But hey, your guy won, so bully for you!

 

I'm not a fan of WWE and if this is the direction F1 is going, I won't be a fan for long.  

[wood 11747]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm only crying about Danny's terrible race (and season, outside of Monza) and Masi making up rules.  Definitely not a Lewis fan, but that title was stolen from him by Masi.  Either you have rules or you don't.  This is far worse than track limits or steward decisions.  This is a stain on F1.  A big one.  But hey, your guy won, so bully for you!

 

I'm not a fan of WWE and if this is the direction F1 is going, I won't be a fan for long.  

Re: the clear breach of the rules, were you crying about it when Lewis got away with overtaking off track and not giving back anything at all? No, I don't think you were. You act like this is the first fuckup by Masi & the stewards, and that Lewis hasn't benefited from the stewards this year. Of course. Because this one hurt your guy. But you wanna ignore the rest and act like this was some kind isolated incident. Fuck off with that stupid shit. If yuou've actually paid even a little bit of attention, you'd know there has been all kinds of crazy shit happening for years.

Oh, and I can't call him Lewis? LOL. You really do like to fabricate bullshit, like a bitch. Maybe you've missed the thousands of times I referred to Lewis as exactly that. I poke a little fun at him and suddenly I can't call him Lewis? I don't remember you getting upset at people saying all manner of nasty shit about Max.

Calm down. You're hysterical. It'll all be ok. Just hide all the sharp knives for a while. 

[Chewbacca 7827]

Just now, wood said:

Re: the clear breach of the rules, were you crying about it when Lewis got away with overtaking off track and not giving back anything at all? No, I don't think you were. You act like this is the first fuckup by Masi & the stewards, and that Lewis hasn't benefited from the stewards this year. Of course. Because this one hurt your guy. But you wanna ignore the rest and act like this was some kind isolated incident. Fuck off with that stupid shit. If yuou've actually paid even a little bit of attention, you'd know there has been all kinds of crazy shit happening for years.

Oh, and I can't call him Lewis? LOL. You really do like to fabricate bullshit, like a bitch. Maybe you've missed the thousands of times I referred to Lewis as exactly that. I poke a little fun at him and suddenly I can't call him Lewis? I don't remember you getting upset at people saying all manner of nasty shit about Max.

Calm down. You're hysterical. It'll all be ok. Just hide all the sharp knives for a while. 

Again, if the same set of circumstances happened to Max, you'd be livid.  We all know it, don't deny it.

 

Keep calling me names, though.  It definitely supports your case that you're mentally stable.

[Goofyboy 3428]

Bruh - over taking off track - I say he was pushed. That’s a subjective call. Changing the fucking regulations at the end of a race is a whole different thing. The entire fan base of F1 has said it was bullshit. But, hey - Lewis lost, so the end justifies the means for you.

[wood 11747]

 

[Goofyboy 3428]

 

That’s a step in the right direction

[wood 11747]

6 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Bruh - over taking off track - I say he was pushed. That’s a subjective call. Changing the fucking regulations at the end of a race is a whole different thing. The entire fan base of F1 has said it was bullshit. But, hey - Lewis lost, so the end justifies the means for you.

Yep, and we've seen over and over and over where people get pushed off track repeatedly, including Lewis being the guy doing the pushing, where the guy who got pushed off was told by Masi to give back any advantage he gained off track. It's happened innumerable times, even just this year. The team of the guy who was forced off complains that they were only out there because they were pushed off, and Race Control comes back with "Sorry. No overtaking off track. Give the spot back or get a penalty". 

Lewis has been doing it regularly for a long, long time. 

The entire fanbase of F1 has said so? LMAO. Bullshit. Not even the entire fanbase of Lewis has said so., much less the entire fanbase of F1. Not even close. Y'all really are hysterical. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by wood

[G650 14421]

Take a few deep breaths man.

[Kdub 513]

Has met max and Joss.

 

Fuck max

[Kdub 513]

Has met Lewis.

 

Likes Lewis

[wood 11747]

4 minutes ago, G650 said:

Take a few deep breaths man.

Yeah Chewy & Goofy definitely need to take that advice. I'm happy as a pig in slop. More tears, please...

[wood 11747]

@Chewbacca  , what name did I call you? I mean, I can do that, if that's what you want, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.

Edited December 14, 2021 by wood

[Chewbacca 7827]

Just now, wood said:

Yeah Chewy & Goofy definitely need to take that advice. I'm happy as a pig in slop. More tears, please...

So what you're saying is that you are OK with making up rules as long as they benefit your guy.  Strongly disagree.  Like I said no tears from me, just looking at a sport that I've come to love that is tearing itself apart for TV ratings.

[Chewbacca 7827]

1 minute ago, wood said:

@goofyboy, what name did I call you? I mean, I can do that, if that's what you want, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.

You called me a chick and a bitch.  But you're totally stable.

[Kdub 513]

And agree Fuck Max?

[wood 11747]

11 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

You called me a chick and a bitch.  But you're totally stable.

I didn't call you a bitch, I alluded to you arguing like a bitch. Constantly making up bullshit, telling me what I really think, putting words in my mouth, etc. You know. Like a bitch. I think I said the way you were acting, you must be a chick. Sounds pretty accurate to me. 

And yeah, you're really covering yourself in glory by calling me unstable for calling out your idiotic shit. So you know ... go fuck yourself.

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by wood

[wood 11747]

8 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

So what you're saying is that you are OK with making up rules as long as they benefit your guy.  Strongly disagree.  Like I said no tears from me, just looking at a sport that I've come to love that is tearing itself apart for TV ratings.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and of course you knew that, but as we've seen above you simply can't make an honest argument. I'm saying shit has happened all season that has disadvantaged both drivers, probably Max more than Lewis. You can't just look at the season as one decision in isolation at the end that didn't work out for the guy you wanted to win, as if it was the only one. Well, you can, because that's what you're doing, but it just makes you look stupid.

[Chewbacca 7827]

3 minutes ago, wood said:

I didn't call you a bitch, I alluded to you arguing like a bitch. Constantly making up bullshit, telling me what I really think, putting words in my mouth, etc. You know. Like a bitch. I think I said the way you were acting, you must be a chick. Sounds pretty accurate to me. 

And yeah, you're really covering yourself in glory by calling me unstable for calling out stupid shit. So you know ... go fuck yourself.

 

Good Lord, take a breath.  If you can't admit this is a bad look for F1, I don't know what to say.  Congrats on Lewis losing, because that's clearly the only thing you care about.

[Kdub 513]

I've been a fan of F1 since my dad took me to San Marino at 9, when he was stationed in Italy. He was a Lewis fan, which is funny because dad was bit prejudiced. But lived his story of how he came up. My dad passed on Thursday. We didn't get along well, but we always had a love for F1. Anyway back to your scheduled surly asshattery

[Goofyboy 3428]

You’re right - Max and Red Bull fans and folks that hate Lewis and Merc are fine with the ends justifying the means.