Formula 1 2021

[Duval Street 420]

I’d like to see 1-2 (Ham-Max) finishes the next two races so we’re even on points going into a winner-take-all finale.  Give them each a FL or neither to keep it square.

[morehornsepower 865]

20 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

If Hamilton drove Max off the track by 100 feet what do you think would have happened? Max can do whatever the fuck he wants with zero repercussions.

Nothing.  Nothing different would have happened.  The top drivers are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want with zero repercussions.  This particular instance was Max.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Duval Street said:

I’d like to see 1-2 (Ham-Max) finishes the next two races so we’re even on points going into a winner-take-all finale.  Give them each a FL or neither to keep it square.

All tied up going into the last race of the season. All on the line for the world championship. Then, over the loudspeaker at the track, you hear glass breaking.

"My God! That's Yuki Tsunoda's music!"

Yuki goes wheel to wheel with Lewis and Max, sending them both spinning, all the while cussing his heart out on the radio. Podium of Tsunoda, Latifi, and Stroll. Lewis and Max watch from below the podium after the race, give each other a knowing nod and then a hug as the frame freezes and then fades to black.

[Dutch 4464]

5 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

So can Max hold onto the lead or is this Hamilton’s to lose in his souped up car?

 

53 minutes ago, Duval Street said:

I’d like to see 1-2 (Ham-Max) finishes the next two races so we’re even on points going into a winner-take-all finale.  Give them each a FL or neither to keep it square.

Imma say there's a 70% chance of a collision at some point in the next three races.  If one of em has a lead heading into Yaz Marina... we're greater than 50% to see this:

Edited November 18, 2021 by Dutch

[Goofyboy 3156]

Take Lewis out of that Merc stick him in a ToroRosso and he'll be 10th at best. He needs all that MB advantage. 

No, no he doesn’t. Even other drivers say he is one of the best at minimizing mistakes and getting the most out of a car. Gasley is not better than Lewis and he’s around 6th.

[Dutch 4464]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

I don't really care who comes out ahead, but I would like to see more than just 1 or 2 laps of wheel to wheel racing.  With Lewis' souped up hotrod, it was too easy for him to pass last week.

Yeah, Merc seems to have solved their car.  I'd be surprised if they didn't take another ICE, given the speed advantage they had over RB last week. Looking advantage Merc at this point.

[Chewbacca 7727]

5 hours ago, RPM said:

Take Lewis out of that Merc stick him in a ToroRosso and he'll be 10th at best. He needs all that MB advantage. 

Lewis and Max are the 2 best drivers on the grid and it really isn't close, IMO.  Bottas was on a podcast a week or two ago and they asked him what made Lewis so good and his response is that Lewis doesn't have bad days.  He's incredibly consistent and he's fast while being consistent.  Same can be said for Max.

[wood 11103]

6 hours ago, RPM said:

Take Lewis out of that Merc stick him in a ToroRosso and he'll be 10th at best. He needs all that MB advantage. 

Maybe not 10th, but he certainly wouldn't be beating any Mercs or RBRs.

[wood 11103]

Quote

Mercedes knows what Red Bull complained about at the FIA. "They are doing something similar to what we did until the race in Baku," team principal Christian Horner had indicated. On the Red Bull and some other cars in the field, the rear wing flap folded backwards from a certain load. At the instigation of Mercedes, the FIA introduced stricter rules for the flexibility of rear wing elements from the French GP. This forced six teams to stiffen their wings.

At Mercedes, the trick should work the other way around. In the visor is the main leaf of the wing. It allegedly deforms downwards and thus opens the rear wing gap more than allowed. From the outside, this is practically impossible to see, because the flap hides the lower element.

You have to know exactly where you have to look to recognize anything at all, it was said behind closed doors. As could be heard, a former Mercedes employee chatted. Verstappen was obviously well privy to this theory. When he inspected Hamilton's rear wing in the Parc Fermé, he pressed the lower, not the upper, element.

 

[utee94 15742]

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

- Barry $witzer

 

 

[wood 11103]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Lewis and Max are the 2 best drivers on the grid and it really isn't close, IMO.  Bottas was on a podcast a week or two ago and they asked him what made Lewis so good and his response is that Lewis doesn't have bad days.  He's incredibly consistent and he's fast while being consistent.  Same can be said for Max.

I would put Alonso in that tier, and then after that, yeah it's not real close. Same can be said of Alonso as well. His capacity to be consistent, and quick, while beating the guys on the pit wall to race strategic & tactical decisions is remarkable.

Edited November 18, 2021 by wood

[wood 11103]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

- Barry $witzer

Appropriate Landthief Switzer quote is appropriate.

[Chewbacca 7727]

Maybe not 10th, but he certainly wouldn't be beating any Mercs or RBRs.

Here and there he would, just like happens now with McLaren and Ferrari.

[utee94 15742]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

28 minutes ago, wood said:

Maybe not 10th, but he certainly wouldn't be beating any Mercs or RBRs.

Here and there he would, just like happens now with McLaren and Ferrari.

That's usually only when Merc has done something to crash out a bunch of the leaders, though.

 

[Noozak 323]

51 minutes ago, wood said:

 

would this be a disqualifiable offense since the FIA forced people to stiffen the rear wing already? Seems like the mostly likely response would be "cut it out".

I still think Mercedes is doing something fucky with the air temp. Since they only look at the average temp over the course of the lap it would be easy to lower temps coming onto a straight and then do something else electronically to make sure the average is still in range. Combine that extra hp, stalled diffuser, engine tuned for 2k miles, and a bendy wing and you can explain why he was driving a rocket.

[wood 11103]

1 minute ago, Noozak said:

would this be a disqualifiable offense since the FIA forced people to stiffen the rear wing already? Seems like the mostly likely response would be "cut it out".

I still think Mercedes is doing something fucky with the air temp. Since they only look at the average temp over the course of the lap it would be easy to lower temps coming onto a straight and then do something else electronically to make sure the average is still in range. Combine that extra hp, stalled diffuser, engine tuned for 2k miles, and a bendy wing and you can explain why he was driving a rocket.

Yeah, no idea. Sorry.

[52-80 19066]

7 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

I think I'd give the guy who,  in his rookie season, outqualified Fernando Alonso a little more credit than that. 

Hamilton has 1-lap pace (qualifying), has long range pace, manages tires superbly (while complaining about them), drives in rain well, composed when being chased down, and is extremely clean wheel-to-wheel.

 

His biggest weakness is his atrocious wardrobe... and corny manufactured persona

[Chewbacca 7727]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

That's usually only when Merc has done something to crash out a bunch of the leaders, though.

 

There are 2 Red Bulls and 2 MBs.  Ferrari and/or McLaren have beaten at least one of them in 15 out of 19 races this year.

[utee94 15742]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

There are 2 Red Bulls and 2 MBs.  Ferrari and/or McLaren have beaten at least one of them in 15 out of 19 races this year.

Yeah sure, easy to do when Bottas takes out himself and both RBRs all at once.

[utee94 15742]

(I hope you know I'm just kidding.  As a Ferrari fan and a fan of DannyRic, I'm always happy to see ANY of them on the podium, instead of the Mercs and RBRs  )

 

[Chewbacca 7727]

2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

(I hope you know I'm just kidding.  As a Ferrari fan and a fan of DannyRic, I'm always happy to see ANY of them on the podium, instead of the Mercs and RBRs  )

 

Yep.  I know @wood knows far more about F1 than I do, but stupid comments like that just because he hates Lewis are ridiculous.  Lewis would probably be 2nd or 3rd in WDC if he was in a Ferrari or a McLaren.  Same for Max.  Probably not winning because the MB and RBs are so quick, but they'd be making a lot of noise.  

[wood 11103]

18 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  I know @wood knows far more about F1 than I do, but stupid comments like that just because he hates Lewis are ridiculous.  Lewis would probably be 2nd or 3rd in WDC if he was in a Ferrari or a McLaren.  Same for Max.  Probably not winning because the MB and RBs are so quick, but they'd be making a lot of noise.  

WTF stupid comment are you referring to? I don't 'hate' Lewis, and my opinion of Lewis as a person is completely unrelated to my opinion of him as a driver. I think he's an elite driver, and have said so many times, but even an elite driver isn't gonna put an Alpha Tauri ahead of Merc or RBR, because the car is 80+% of success in F1. If you're gullible enough to buy into the hype & not able to see that Merc has been incredibly dominant, then I can't help you.  And 2nd in the WDC in a Ferrari or McLaren, ahead of RBR or Merc? Fuck off outta here with that shit.

Edited November 18, 2021 by wood

[Chewbacca 7727]

3 minutes ago, wood said:

WTF stupid comment are you referring to? My opinion of Lewis as a person is completely unrelated to my opinion of him as a driver. I think he's an elite driver, and have said so many times, but even an elite driver isn't gonna put an Alpha Tauri ahead of Merc or RBR. If you're gullible enough to buy into the hype  & not able to see that Merc has been incredibly dominant, then I can't help you.  And 2nd in a Ferrari or McLaren, ahead of RBR or Merc? Fuck off outta here with that shit.

This one:

2 hours ago, wood said:

Maybe not 10th, but he certainly wouldn't be beating any Mercs or RBRs.

As I posted above, in 15 of 19 races this year, either Ferrari or McLaren has beaten at least one RB or Merc.  And if you take Lewis out of that Merc and put him in a McLaren or Ferrari, it will happen more.  Because whoever replaces him in the Merc is not as talented as he is.  And the same goes for taking Max out of the RB and putting him in a McLaren or Ferrari.  

[NoName 16271]

12 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  I know @wood knows far more about F1 than I do, but stupid comments like that just because he hates Lewis are ridiculous.  Lewis would probably be 2nd or 3rd in WDC if he was in a Ferrari or a McLaren.  Same for Max.  Probably not winning because the MB and RBs are so quick, but they'd be making a lot of noise.  

while I think Lewis and Max are significantly better than the rest of the drivers generally, what you are saying makes sense but doesn't get backed up by the numbers in my eyes.

the top McLaren/Ferrari drivers currently have 151 and 148 points each. Let's say it is 150 to make things easy.

Max and Lewis are well over 300 each, so let's round down.

Switching cars, you think their driving talent alone is worth 150 points over the course of the season? that's just a bridge way too far for me.

Look at Botas and Perez, they have 203 and 178 points each, and neither one is a slouch.

Would they be doing well? certainly. Top 5? almost for sure. but the car really does matter. Look at Gasley - pretty universally recognized as a good driver. honestly, what is the gap between AT and RB? the RB alone certainly isn't 50% better. Last year Gasley finished 272 points behind LH and 139 behind Max. This year he is 240 points behind Max.

Alonso is a great driver in a sub par car. He has 62 points and only 12 points more than Ocon. He is 30 points behind Gasley (92) and almost 100 points behind Norris.

the car matters a lot.

Lewis is fucking great. But I just don't see how he would compete for the top 3 when in a car that is at the very best 5th in the field and at the worst like 9th? 10th?

also, super aggressive Max in the midfield would be a sight to see...and not in a good way.

 

 

[wood 11103]

15 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

This one:

As I posted above, in 15 of 19 races this year, either Ferrari or McLaren has beaten at least one RB or Merc.  And if you take Lewis out of that Merc and put him in a McLaren or Ferrari, it will happen more.  Because whoever replaces him in the Merc is not as talented as he is.  And the same goes for taking Max out of the RB and putting him in a McLaren or Ferrari.  

You're talking about Ferrari & McLaren, while I clearly responded to a post about Lewis in an AT. Stupid comment? You don't even know what I said.

Could a Lewis or Max or Alonso occasionally pull off a podium on rare occasions in an AT? Yeah, sure, when shit goes well for them and shit has gone badly for the others. You apparently vastly overestimate how much effect the driver has on the car's relative pace. Stupid? Right back at ya.

Remember, Lewis was a 1x WDC in the 7 years before he went to Merc, in a car capable of winning races every year, and a Merc driver has won every WDC since. It's not because the drivers are so wonderful.

Edited November 18, 2021 by wood

[Chewbacca 7727]

6 minutes ago, NoName said:

while I think Lewis and Max are significantly better than the rest of the drivers generally, what you are saying makes sense but doesn't get backed up by the numbers in my eyes.

the top McLaren/Ferrari drivers currently have 151 and 148 points each. Let's say it is 150 to make things easy.

Max and Lewis are well over 300 each, so let's round down.

Switching cars, you think their driving talent alone is worth 150 points over the course of the season? that's just a bridge way too far for me.

Look at Botas and Perez, they have 203 and 178 points each, and neither one is a slouch.

Would they be doing well? certainly. Top 5? almost for sure. but the car really does matter. Look at Gasley - pretty universally recognized as a good driver. honestly, what is the gap between AT and RB? the RB alone certainly isn't 50% better. Last year Gasley finished 272 points behind LH and 139 behind Max. This year he is 240 points behind Max.

Alonso is a great driver in a sub par car. He has 62 points and only 12 points more than Ocon. He is 30 points behind Gasley (92) and almost 100 points behind Norris.

the car matters a lot.

Lewis is fucking great. But I just don't see how he would compete for the top 3 when in a car that is at the very best 5th in the field and at the worst like 9th? 10th?

also, super aggressive Max in the midfield would be a sight to see...and not in a good way.

 

 

You don't think Lewis could do 50 points better than Lando or Leclerc over the course of a season in the same car?  That would be good for #3-4 in WDC standings right now.  Ahead of Perez and right on Bottas' heels.

[NoName 16271]

10 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

This one:

As I posted above, in 15 of 19 races this year, either Ferrari or McLaren has beaten at least one RB or Merc.  And if you take Lewis out of that Merc and put him in a McLaren or Ferrari, it will happen more.  Because whoever replaces him in the Merc is not as talented as he is.  And the same goes for taking Max out of the RB and putting him in a McLaren or Ferrari.  

15/19 times it has happened. here is the results in drivers championship:

and constructor championship:

the gap between the top two and the next two is fucking huge.

the gap between 3-4 and 5-6 is fucking huge

the gap between 5-6 and 7 is huge and the gap between 6 and 10 is even larger.

[NoName 16271]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

You don't think Lewis could do 50 points better than Lando or Leclerc over the course of a season in the same car?  That would be good for #3-4 in WDC standings right now.  Ahead of Perez and right on Bottas' heels.

let's use Perez last year - he finished 4th in the WDC, like 70% (89 points) behind 3rd. so +50 doesn't make a difference

this year, if Lando scores another +50 points (33% more than his season total!) he is barely in 4th. Obviously this isn't taking other things into consideration around the waterfall effect of what that does to other drivers/places

either way...honestly, no. I don't think the gap between LH and MV is +25% to the next level of drivers. Are they better? Yes. Not THAT much better though.

if you are going to flip LH to Ferrari or Mclaren then you also have to flip Norris or Leclerc to Mercedes, which makes a difference.

 

 

[52-80 19066]

The car is the potential and its the drivers' (and teams') job to not fuck it up.  Over the length of a weekend, Hamilton fucks up very, very infrequently.  Bottas fucks up quite frequently. 

 

And if you haven't fucked up your race, Verstappen will do it for you.

[NoName 16271]

20 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The car is the potential and its the drivers' (and teams') job to not fuck it up.  Over the length of a weekend, Hamilton fucks up very, very infrequently.  Bottas fucks up quite frequently. 

 

...compared to Lewis Hamilton.

[utee94 15742]

Ooooooh boy it's getting chippy up in here!

 

[Chewbacca 7727]

34 minutes ago, NoName said:

let's use Perez last year - he finished 4th in the WDC, like 70% (89 points) behind 3rd. so +50 doesn't make a difference

this year, if Lando scores another +50 points (33% more than his season total!) he is barely in 4th. Obviously this isn't taking other things into consideration around the waterfall effect of what that does to other drivers/places

either way...honestly, no. I don't think the gap between LH and MV is +25% to the next level of drivers. Are they better? Yes. Not THAT much better though.

if you are going to flip LH to Ferrari or Mclaren then you also have to flip Norris or Leclerc to Mercedes, which makes a difference.

 

 

But if you take this year as an example and look at Leclerc and Lando, specifically, there are a lot of points out there that I think Lewis picks up.  Does Lewis bin it in Q3 at Monaco when he's already sitting on pole?  I doubt it.  Does Lewis crash in Q3 at Spa when he's the fastest one on the track?  Does Lewis make contact with Sainz at turn 1 last week?  Probably not.  Lots of self inflicted wounds for those 2 that left a ton of points on the table this year.  And as Bottas said, the amazing thing about Lewis is his consistency.  He doesn't do that stuff.

I'm not saying he necessarily does a lot better in the races where they drive well.  He just doesn't fuck up like the other drivers on the grid (with the exception of Max) do.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Chewbacca

[XYZ 2154]

The only way to put this debate to rest is to clone Hamilton and put one Hamilton on a Mercedes, another on a red Bull, and so on. And then let them race.

[Chewbacca 7727]

7 minutes ago, XYZ said:

The only way to put this debate to rest is to clone Hamilton and put one Hamilton on a Mercedes, another on a red Bull, and so on. And then let them race.

Can't we just have Albon do it?

[Updawg 2260]

What if one was in a haas?

[Atxracer 797]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

The only way to put this debate to rest is to clone Hamilton and put one Hamilton on a Mercedes, another on a red Bull, and so on. And then let them race.

No need.  Rain is the great equalizer.  That being said, as much as I don’t like him or his style, IMO Verstappen is the best driver on grid followed by Hamilton and then probably Russel, Perez and a few others.  But, if you stuck Hamilton and verstappen in the same car, I feel Verstappen would win 8 times out of 10.  

[Goofyboy 3156]

No need.  Rain is the great equalizer.  That being said, as much as I don’t like him or his style, IMO Verstappen is the best driver on grid followed by Hamilton and then probably Russel, Perez and a few others.  But, if you stuck Hamilton and verstappen in the same car, I feel Verstappen would win 8 times out of 10.  

Because he wrecks Lewis 6 times and wins two out right? Lewis is damn good in the rain as well.

[kevwun 15595]

Watching practice and it sounds like Hamilton doesn't have the Brazil power unit in his car.

[NoName 16271]

11 hours ago, Atxracer said:

No need.  Rain is the great equalizer.  That being said, as much as I don’t like him or his style, IMO Verstappen is the best driver on grid followed by Hamilton and then probably Russel, Perez and a few others.  But, if you stuck Hamilton and verstappen in the same car, I feel Verstappen would win 8 times out of 10.  

i knew people loved George, but top 3-4 driver on the grid?

damn.

[Dutch 4464]

 

[Atxracer 797]

11 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Because he wrecks Lewis 6 times and wins two out right? Lewis is damn good in the rain as well.

If you ain’t first, you’re last.   Lewis is definitely great in the rain.  Verstappen is just better. 

[wood 11103]

Pretty tense between Toto & Horner in the PC ...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-w12-rear-wing-score-marks/

Quote

...

“How do you explain the score marks on the rear wing endplate?” Horner asked Wolff, who initially offered to send a Mercedes rear wing to Red Bull for inspection and to cut into “a thousand pieces”.

Wolff replied: “I think that is within of what is allowed and therefore that is ok.

That reply brought a slow nod from Horner, who earlier in the press conference repeated the threat of an official protest being: “Make no bones about it, if we see it on the car here it will be protested.”

“If we believe the [Mercedes] car is not in compliance, we will protest,” Horner told reporters.

“The straight-line speeds we have seen in Mexico and Brazil was not a normal situation. And yes we know that a new engine with Mercedes comes with increased performance.

“But when you have a 27km/h closing speed and you see marks on the rear wing endplates that have been marking up from wings flexing, it is very clear to us what has been going on.”

...

Horner added in a question asked by The Race about how close a protest was to being lodged: “We will follow the situation closely.

“It depends on what happens this weekend and what we see through the analysis we conduct.

“It’s not just applied to here [in Qatar], in many respects it is even more pertinent to the two circuits coming up [Jeddah and Abu Dhabi].

“But as a competitor, and we know Mercedes have paid a huge amount of attention to our car this season, we are obviously doing the same. It is high stakes and there is an awful lot to play for.

“We just want to make sure it is an equal playing field.”

 

[G650 13990]

lol. Chris Horner is such a trifling cunt.

[The Tres Leches 58]

I hope Hamilton wears a pride helmet at all three Middle East races, especially Saudi Arabia.

[wood 11103]

racingnews365.com/are-these-the-alleged-score-marks-that-red-bull-have-spotted

[Buzzrock 14867]

Well I’m convinced.

[elfenix 34168]

Disaster for Checo

[Goofyboy 3156]

Get in there LEWIS! Damn. Full 1/2 second faster.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Interesting qualifying session. Some big names near the bottom. Nice work Pierre.

[Anton Chigurh 3318]

Fabrega says Lewis is using the Turkey PU this weekend.