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2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

Patrick Bateman

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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37 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Both of them are actually already contenders WITHOUT Kawhi.  Neither team is going to give up one of their two young stars (Tatum / Brown or Embiid / Simmons).  Proven, productive young talent is so critical because they are locked into cheap contracts for 3-4 years.  These guys are not only All-Star caliber, they free up the checkbook to get MORE top players to fill out the roster.  These teams aren't run buy idiots. They will never give up that flexibility.

The best you could hope for from Boston would be Rozier (or) Smart + picks.  But even then Kawhi would create redundancies.  Boston's big move will be an upcoming offer for Anthony Davis.

The Sixers are a different story.  Fultz could easily be traded. He is unproven so it will be a gamble either way.  Saric is good and would be an awesome Spur and his trade value is much lower than Tatum, Brown, Embiid, or Simmons.  Covington would also be easy to trade.  Kawhi would also be a perfect compliment for their system and fill a need position.

The Lakers could be a player.  I would need Ingram and Kuzma plus picks at a minimum.  

Boston isn't going to want to see Philly get a top 5 player when healthy...... same with Philly looking over at Boston.  If you play it right, there could be leverage and the Celtics are also going to have some issues paying everyone eventually (although not for a couple of years).  With KI's knee, the specter of having to trade away pieces on the cheap because they can't pay them all eventually, and with Lebron's probable move out of the conference, the time to strike is the next 3 years for an East team.  The Celtics have a really good young team but they already have redundancies if everyone is healthy and there crew still isn't better than the Warriors if everyone is healthy.... at least not next year and probably the year after.

Also, the Sixers may only have a back end lottery pick.... depends on how the ping pongs end up.

Lakers pieces are a little overrated.  Ingram has been a disappointment and Kuzma had a great rookie campaign but was inconsistent and struggled in the middle of the season.  There's potential although Ingram needs to step it up.  Wouldn't want any part of Ball and Randle will get paid soon.

 

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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

Tony Parker also took multiple contracts at less than market value to keep the roster intact. David Robinson had a clause in his contract where his salary had to be among the top 2 paid players in the

Radical Larry
Radical Larry

He only played nine times. Niiiiine times.

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

That's bullshit. Other than drilling Brent Barry's wife (and really, who could blame him) he has been a model Spur. Always put team first. Never complained about touches. Never got into any trouble of

texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

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13 hours ago, HookEm said:

Both of them are actually already contenders WITHOUT Kawhi. 

Meh, not really. They play in a weaker Eastern conference and the Cavs are still probably the best team.

It's obviously a gamble to give up young talent but both those teams are still a superstar player away from legitimately competing for a championship. 

Both the Celtics and Sixers would lose to several Western conference teams in the playoffs. 

Edited by texasstrong12
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Gut Wagon

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5 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

Meh, not really. They play in a weaker Eastern conference and the Cavs are still probably the best team.

It's obviously a gamble to give up young talent but both those teams are still a superstar player away from legitimately competing for a championship. 

Both the Celtics and Sixers would lose to several Western conference teams in the playoffs. 

Hard to know what Boston would be right now with Hayward, obviously. But as good as he is, he's hardly another Kawhi. 

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Gut Wagon

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1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

Nick Wright is an idiot but this is true.

 

Agreed. From a trade value perspective, a young Philly team coming up short against a young regional rival might be just the sort of thing to get the pot sweetened. 

Purely as an aside, I actually know the Sixers' CFO. Guess I could check with him to make sure he's making Simmons part of any offer. 

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Hate 20108

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The further the Celtics go in the playoffs the less likely they are to be in on Kawhi, if they even were interested.  I think the most likely scenario is that he is in SA next year.  I don't have nay ideas about after that though.  

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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What's the spurs fan opinion of the wcf?  "F Houston"?  Or want to see the higher seeded underdog topple the giant?

I don't like either, so I'll be pissed when one of them wins, but i'll also chuckle when rockets lose.  I don't even really dislike the rockets, I just think their fans are fools for thinking dantoni is a good coach.  Also ive come to terms with Oakland's greatness.  Ill be wishing for good games, and all sorts of shenanigans.  There were already a few pushes and elbows, close games and series are always chippier.

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BurdineBandit

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Fuck the Rockets.

Don't get me wrong, fuck the Warriors too, but they are inevitable, like Thanos. Whether we like it or not they assembled the most ridiculous team of all time and now get to win championships. I hate how they did it, but it's done. James Harden and the insufferable Rockets' fans deserve each other and every let-down they get.

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Gut Wagon

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2 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

What's the spurs fan opinion of the wcf?  "F Houston"?  Or want to see the higher seeded underdog topple the giant?

I don't like either, so I'll be pissed when one of them wins, but i'll also chuckle when rockets lose.  I don't even really dislike the rockets, I just think their fans are fools for thinking dantoni is a good coach.  Also ive come to terms with Oakland's greatness.  Ill be wishing for good games, and all sorts of shenanigans.  There were already a few pushes and elbows, close games and series are always chippier.

I've watched a few minutes of the Eastern Conference games since SA got bumped, but not even a whole half of basketball total. I know I don't want GS to win another title, but the way it's looking, they'll be hard to deny. Just too much firepower, even for Houston. Not saying the Rockets couldn't take a game or two, but when it's a talented champion (now with home court) against a less-talented pretender, we all can predict the likely outcome. If Boston makes it to the Finals, I'll definitely be a Celtics fan...but still might not care enough to watch.

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BurdineBandit

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13 hours ago, miguelito said:

How long until every corch in the NBA is a former Spurs assistant?

How long until Pop doesn't have any successors lined up, and is that around the time he decides to call it quits? Are we fucked for life then?

 

Got 5 I guess. They'll keep me warm at night.

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Amos Moses

Amos Moses 795

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Funny thought ... at one point several months ago I envisioned Pop rolling out Kawhi right before the start of the playoffs with a monologue something like:

"Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station. Fire at will, Kawhi!"

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aggie08

aggie08 21497

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He made sure to qualify that his opinion wasn't based on any inside information or sources, just his gut.  He said that, if he absolutely had to pick, that he'd go with one of the LA teams.  But him staying in San Antonio also wouldn't surprise him.

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Hate 20108

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The problem is that who would trade for him until they see he is healthy and can play?  His "team" has potentially screwed him out of a lot of money as well as potentially derailed him from a HOF career.  Sad!

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Patrick Bateman

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The other issue is Brown and Tatum have probably proved to Boston that they're immovable now.  I'm not sure how they feel but if we wanted to deal with Boston we may have to take back Hayward now..... at 63 million over 2 years.  He's good but he ain't Kawhi.... Probably get a draft pick and Rozier with him.  I really wanted Tatum.

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Amos Moses

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Boston has zero incentive to do anything.  That team is going to get better for next year just by getting healthy and staying put.  Can they see a path to get on the Warriors' level?  Who knows, but I surely think they will be turn their nose up at any trades for either Brown or Tatum.  Cross them off.

Spurs are in a tight spot if Pop's mandate on not dealing with any Western teams holds true.  Plenty of options with teams in the west with young players and picks - not as many in the east.  Trading with the 76ers seems to make the most sense if it comes to that - I'm just not sure that some combo of Fultz, Saric, Covington, and picks meets Pop's expectation for equal value in return.  

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aggie08

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7 minutes ago, Amos Moses said:

Boston has zero incentive to do anything.  That team is going to get better for next year just by getting healthy and staying put.  Can they see a path to get on the Warriors' level?  Who knows, but I surely think they will be turn their nose up at any trades for either Brown or Tatum.  Cross them off.

Spurs are in a tight spot if Pop's mandate on not dealing with any Western teams holds true.  Plenty of options with teams in the west with young players and picks - not as many in the east.  Trading with the 76ers seems to make the most sense if it comes to that - I'm just not sure that some combo of Fultz, Saric, Covington, and picks meets Pop's expectation for equal value in return.  

The problem is--assuming that Kawhi's doc can give other teams reassurances--is that he has the same leverage that Kyrie did, maybe even more.  Any interested team is going to want some sort of under the table promise that he'll re-sign with them after next season.  So the Spurs would be hard-pressed to send him somewhere undesirable for a bunch of picks.

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Patrick Bateman

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6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

The problem is--assuming that Kawhi's doc can give other teams reassurances--is that he has the same leverage that Kyrie did, maybe even more.  Any interested team is going to want some sort of under the table promise that he'll re-sign with them after next season.  So the Spurs would be hard-pressed to send him somewhere undesirable for a bunch of picks.

That's of course true, but by trading him he's going to give up a ton of money..... if he signs as UFA the next year without a S&T, then he's even forgoing more.... No offense to Kawhi, but it'll take him the better part of his career to offset that money, if he does at all.  If he wants to be in one spot, I can see Pop and RC saying to Kawhi's agents, "nah, fuck you.  We'll just rebuild and you can explain to your client about how you cost him more money then he'll ever make in marketing (considering his lack of personality)."  We'll take the 35 million in cap space and rebuild after a year of sucking.  Now maybe he doesn't care about money.  150 million vs 220 million is a ton but at some point it just becomes incomprehensible numbers to those that don't build their ego around money much.  He'll be taken care of no matter what.  But I have a feeling it'll be half a dozen places he would want to go to with another 3-4 he would accept...

 

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Amos Moses

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What are doctor reassurances worth?  He's been declared medically fit by what everyone seems to think are extremely qualified and overly conservative doctors - they'll need a psychologist to give assurances he's not going to hold himself out because of some occurrence of pain.  

And yes, he has tremendous leverage as to trading partners which is why the options with east teams are so limited.

Edited by Amos Moses
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aggie08

aggie08 21497

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Doctor reassurances will at least bring more people to the table and hopefully increase the offer. The winning team gets to have their doctors put their hands on him, and veto the deal if they don't like what they see.

It's risky as fuck (as is the Spurs offering the super max), but legitimate top 5 players almost never become available.

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aggie08

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26 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

That's of course true, but by trading him he's going to give up a ton of money..... if he signs as UFA the next year without a S&T, then he's even forgoing more.... No offense to Kawhi, but it'll take him the better part of his career to offset that money, if he does at all.  If he wants to be in one spot, I can see Pop and RC saying to Kawhi's agents, "nah, fuck you.  We'll just rebuild and you can explain to your client about how you cost him more money then he'll ever make in marketing (considering his lack of personality)."  We'll take the 35 million in cap space and rebuild after a year of sucking.  Now maybe he doesn't care about money.  150 million vs 220 million is a ton but at some point it just becomes incomprehensible numbers to those that don't build their ego around money much.  He'll be taken care of no matter what.  But I have a feeling it'll be half a dozen places he would want to go to with another 3-4 he would accept...

 

Even if he's willing to stay for the money, I definitely wouldn't offer him the supermax this offseason if I was San Antonio. Tell him, "Make an all-NBA team, and we'll gladly pay you. Don't make all-NBA team, but prove to us that you're healthy, and we'll pay you." If he takes issue with that, too bad. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Even if he's willing to stay for the money, I definitely wouldn't offer him the supermax this offseason if I was San Antonio. Tell him, "Make an all-NBA team, and we'll gladly pay you. Don't make all-NBA team, but prove to us that you're healthy, and we'll pay you." If he takes issue with that, too bad. 

Agreed but reports seem to indicate they may offer it to him.... if want to see him healthy on the court in live games before offering the supermax and that may still be irresponsible....

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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7 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

He's already fucking proven himself.  Offer him the super max, if he accepts then you meet and smooth everything over.  If he rejects it, trade him.

I would love to negotiate with some of you people in business.

What hes done in the past is only half the story.  As of this moment he is a broken player.  Would you pay supermax for a broken player?  I wouldn't.  Paying that much for a guy that has given no indication that he can or wants to play again would cripple the franchise more than letting him walk.  Now maybe somehow in the next couple months kawhi proves to the team he's ready and wants to stay, then sure offer him the super max.

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Amos Moses

Amos Moses 795

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51 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

He's already fucking proven himself.  Offer him the super max, if he accepts then you meet and smooth everything over.  If he rejects it, trade him.

I would love to negotiate with some of you people in business.

There he is ... PilotsError:  master of nuance and subtlety; expert negotiator.  

If you think the Spurs are going to offer Kawhi $219 million on a guaranteed contract without any conditions or contingencies as to his health or participation - well, you're not smart.  

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