2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

LOL. At this point best case scenario is picking up a quality starter and promising draft pick from an Eastern Conference team willing to gamble on a rental. That means Celtics, Grizzlies, and 76ers are the most likely options. I don't see the Celtics making a move. They have a team that should be favored to win it all next year if they're healthy. Lakers have the most to offer in terms of assets and incentive to make the trade, but Spurs have made it clear they're not helping LA get better. Bucks could send Bledsoe and a pick, but their 2019 pick will go to the Suns unless it's 4-16, potentially less enticing to San Antonio than what other teams could offer. I'd like to see the 76ers take Kawhi and Green for Redick (on a sign and trade) and the 76ers first round pick coming from the Kings, who should suck again.

Things wrong with your post

Grizzlies in East (or is this new)
Celtics favored to win it all next year
Lakers have most assets to offer
Redick

[Gut Wagon 8,079]

It's becoming an exceptionally long Spurs offseason in more ways than one. 

[miguelito 11,266]

So's my johnson.

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

When does summer league start?   I'm ready to over react when lonny score 20 in his first game, the over react again when he scored 4 in the next.

[Hate 20,108]

Hell, I’m just ready for the team to have a chance to win a title again. Is Becky coaching again?

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

Well this team did win more playoff games against the warriors this year than the Cavs so we have that going for us which is nice. 

Aren't we still waiting on July 1st to offer the supermax?  Also, can we trade Kawbye under the supermax contract?

[Radical Larry 28,626]

We have until October to sign him to the supermax.

If we sign him to the supermax, he will have to be on the team for a year before he can be traded.

[SilasCoade 2,622]

2 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

Things wrong with your post

Grizzlies in East (or is this new)
Celtics favored to win it all next year
Lakers have most assets to offer
Redick

 

Grizzlies was a brain fart, sure.

Celtics should definitely be favored to win the East if healthy and would be tough to bet  against in the Finals.

Lakers have most "assets and incentive" combination. They have good young players, they will have high draft picks for the next year at least, and they are looking to turn the corner in the near term with free agent signings.

Redick would provide instant offense from long range, which was the biggest weakness of the Spurs this year. Him plus a package of picks for Kawhi+Green would be reasonable.

[SilasCoade 2,622]

9 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Uhm..... If all the Spurs can get for Kawhi is Redick and a terrible first round pick next year, RC and Pop should be forced to retire the next day...... That's an awful deal.

Trading him to a team that knows he is unlikely to resign after a single year? That's not a bad return at all. The alternative is to force him to play in SA another year, make the playoffs b/c of it so your own draft pick is low value, then watch him leave for nothing.

[chikin23 384]

When the fuck is the announcement that the Spurs and Kawhi agreed to a new contract and that they are also crossing the Ts and dotting the Is on LeBron’s contract?

This whole debacle has been smoke and mirrors by PATFO and Kawhi to keep the LeBron signing under the radar.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

14 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Trading him to a team that knows he is unlikely to resign after a single year? That's not a bad return at all. The alternative is to force him to play in SA another year, make the playoffs b/c of it so your own draft pick is low value, then watch him leave for nothing.

I'd prefer the second option.  If he's gonna waste away for a year, it might as well be in SA.  

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

1 hour ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

I'd prefer the second option.  If he's gonna waste away for a year, it might as well be in SA.  

Until he only plays until the all-star break and then holds himself out of key games to not get injured and fuck us.  Keeping someone who doesn't want to be here after the relationship is fractured is toxic.  Either fix it and hold him or ship him out for what we can get.  If it's the latter, he'll be a pariah in SA, especially if he ends up at LA.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

Trading him to a team that knows he is unlikely to resign after a single year? That's not a bad return at all. The alternative is to force him to play in SA another year, make the playoffs b/c of it so your own draft pick is low value, then watch him leave for nothing.

Yea.... really hurt Indiana last year.  And you advocated trading our best two defensive players and one top 10 player for a 34 year old shooter only and a pick in the mid to late 20's.  SMH.  The good news is you'll be really happy if/when we do trade Kawhi, even if the rest of us are disappointed.  #silverlinings

There are many more alternatives than your theory.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

14 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Until he only plays until the all-star break and then holds himself out of key games to not get injured and fuck us.  Keeping someone who doesn't want to be here after the relationship is fractured is toxic.  Either fix it and hold him or ship him out for what we can get.  If it's the latter, he'll be a pariah in SA, especially if he ends up at LA.

He can sit out the entire year if he pleases. He'll only further tarnish his reputation, but the Spurs will keep their integrity and negotiating power for other Divas in the future.

I'm only saying this if the offer is as shitty as JJ and a late first round pick.  

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

3 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

He can sit out the entire year if he pleases. He'll only further tarnish his reputation, but the Spurs will keep their integrity and negotiating power for other Divas in the future.

I'm only saying this if the offer is as shitty as JJ and a late first round pick.  

It won't be so you don't have to consider false choices..... it's like saying, what if Boston offers us Tatum, Brown, Kyrie and Horford for Kawhi, Pau, and Patty???  What should we do?

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

2 hours ago, Llogg said:

Trading him to a team that knows he is unlikely to resign after a single year? That's not a bad return at all. The alternative is to force him to play in SA another year, make the playoffs b/c of it so your own draft pick is low value, then watch him leave for nothing.

At that point you have to look at the free agent and cap situation in the summer of 2019.  Which teams will have the space to sign him in 2019?  Are any of those desirable to kawhi?

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

If Kawhi is seriously as upset about the Spurs treatment or TPs comments as the media suggests,  he likely has more wrong with him than a bruised quad.   

If all the rumblings are true, I wouldn't be surprised if his career, as we know it, is over.  A guy who doesn't like media attention, enough to not make a single comment throughout this process, wants to go to LA? Seriously?  How's he gonna hide from the media there?

Edited June 25, 2018 by EvilCaseMcCoy

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

2 hours ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

If Kawhi is seriously as upset about the Spurs treatment or TPs comments as the media suggests,  he likely has more wrong with him than a bruised quad.   

If all the rumblings are true, I wouldn't be surprised if his career, as we know it, is over.  A guy who doesn't like media attention, enough to not make a single comment throughout this process, wants to go to LA? Seriously?  How's he gonna hide from the media there?

He may end up another Stephen Jackson where he regretted leaving...but it's his life to live and I'm sure he'll cry himself to sleep on his bed made of money.

[chainsaw 9,869]

A bed made of much less money than he would have had if he had been less of a punkass

[Radical Larry 28,626]

[Michael Knight 12,981]

7 hours ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

If Kawhi is seriously as upset about the Spurs treatment or TPs comments as the media suggests,  he likely has more wrong with him than a bruised quad.   

If all the rumblings are true, I wouldn't be surprised if his career, as we know it, is over.  A guy who doesn't like media attention, enough to not make a single comment throughout this process, wants to go to LA? Seriously?  How's he gonna hide from the media there?

Cause its not Kawhi, its his people. He's allowed them to fuck this shit up

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

It's in here somewhere that he was expected to opt in but still nice to know and get it done.  He can be frustrating as hell and I'd be happier if we were paying 7 million but Danny's slowly become one of those great soldiers for us.  Gonna have a special place in the franchise even if he leaves next year.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

2 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Cause its not Kawhi, its his people. He's allowed them to fuck this shit up

So in a way..... it is Kawhi.  As you wrote, he's allowed them to do it.....

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

Fuck Kobe.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Patrick Bateman
Wrong Thread.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Cause its not Kawhi, its his people. He's allowed them to fuck this shit up

Well I can't wait to see him bring his people to field questions from a sideline reporter on his behalf. 

[Hate 20,108]

12 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Fuck Kobe.

No, this is absolute the right thread. Fuck Derrick Fisher while you're at it!

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

and seriously fuck Zaza for stepping on Kawhi's ankle, which ruined his quad, and destroyed his pride. 

[BurdineBandit 815]

15 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's in here somewhere that he was expected to opt in but still nice to know and get it done.  He can be frustrating as hell and I'd be happier if we were paying 7 million but Danny's slowly become one of those great soldiers for us.  Gonna have a special place in the franchise even if he leaves next year.

I think he's quickly reached replacement-level after last year (especially, but maybe even from 2 years ago). But with a healthy team, I still think he's a solid starter and obviously a plus defender and still dangerous as an outlet for Kawhi/LMA double-teams, etc.

It's funny just how wanting to be on a team can win you so much favor. He didn't have to take 10-mil, but he did, because he genuinely likes being a Spur, and as a Spurs fanatic, I'll never forget that, even though I've been public about wishing for a trade last year (Avery Bradley).

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

13 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

I think he's quickly reached replacement-level after last year (especially, but maybe even from 2 years ago). But with a healthy team, I still think he's a solid starter and obviously a plus defender and still dangerous as an outlet for Kawhi/LMA double-teams, etc.

It's funny just how wanting to be on a team can win you so much favor. He didn't have to take 10-mil, but he did, because he genuinely likes being a Spur, and as a Spurs fanatic, I'll never forget that, even though I've been public about wishing for a trade last year (Avery Bradley).

Well, he's probably not worth 10 million in this market.  I saw estimates/models he probably would have gotten 7-8 or full MLE in today's market because of his defense, so he seemingly made a sound business decision.  However you can tell he enjoys being a Spur, wants to be here, and trusts PATFO.  His game isn't optimal for today's game which now needs their 3 and D guy able to press a team off the fake and dribble drive but he still plays good (not great) defense and Pop respects him....

As far as AB, he may have been okay if cheap and Danny left but if we're going to trade Kawhi, this year doesn't matter as much, and we need to play some of younger guys like Derrick White and Walker to get them reps and see if they can play.  It's partly why when we trade Kawhi, we should try and package Patty with him.  We know PATFO will want to bring back Tony and besides the obvious offensive issues of playing them together, it stunts the growth of those younger guys.  Right now our back court looks like this:

1 Guard:  Murray, TP, D White

2 Guard:  Danny, Patty, L Walker

Too many guys.  Danny and Walker can probably play 3 in a pinch but they'll give up height to most 3's.  Moving Patty and his contract would be good for a re-tooling or reloading team.  We need longer wings and forwards much more....

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

32 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Right now our back court looks like this:

1 Guard:  Murray, TP, D White

2 Guard:  Danny, Patty, L Walker

Too many guys.  Danny and Walker can probably play 3 in a pinch but they'll give up height to most 3's.  Moving Patty and his contract would be good for a re-tooling or reloading team.  We need longer wings and forwards much more....

You didn't even count Manu (if he comes back) and Forbes. This team is way, way backcourt heavy. Throw out Kawhi and possibly/likely Gay, and it's also a complete disaster on the wing, sans the cement footed Kyle Anderson. The bigs outside of LMA are shit, too. Pau is a 1000 years old, Laverne sucks and Bertans may still have some upside but I thought he would have taken a bigger leap last year. If you are counting on Davis Bertans to be your second best big, it goes without saying that you are fucked.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

11 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

You didn't even count Manu (if he comes back) and Forbes. This team is way, way backcourt heavy. Throw out Kawhi and possibly/likely Gay, and it's also a complete disaster on the wing, sans the cement footed Kyle Anderson. The bigs outside of LMA are shit, too. Pau is a 1000 years old, Laverne sucks and Bertans may still have some upside but I thought he would have taken a bigger leap last year. If you are counting on Davis Bertans to be your second best big, it goes without saying that you are fucked.

Definitely although I think Manu is probably going to retire now (hope not) and Forbes moves on.  But yes, the point is we have too many guys under 6'5" and too many "combo" guards.  And yes, without Gay and Kawhi, we have no long wings.  Blossomgame had a nice year in the G league but he's probably not ready for anything but end of the bench.  It also makes trade offers interesting.  In some ways, if the Lakers offered Kuzma and Ingram along with some draft picks they would need to acquire, it's the best offer.  We desperately need length and athleticism at the forward spots along with shooting and they would help and make our young core this:

Kuzma, Ingram, Walker, Murray, and maybe White.  Maybe Metu.  LMA as the older statesman.  

If you trade with Philly and get back Saric and Fultz, then you still have the log jam at guard as Fultz is a combo guard:

Saric, Fultz, Walker, Murray, etc, etc.

I understand PATFO won't look at it this way and I also think them telling the West they won't trade with them is simply negotiation tactics (which I support) and not a case where we'll limit leverage.

Also, I've read Lauvergne is expected to opt out and go back to Europe where he can make more money and Bertans will be around as a stretch 3/4.  Anyway, the point is, as Mitch has pointed out, we're way too back court heavy and maybe they didn't plan it this way, but this is where we are.  If we can attach a player to Kawhi, it really should be Patty as Pau is sort of on an expiring contract (partially guaranteed) and could be moved later.  Helps re-set our entire team after next year with Danny, Pau, and everyone but LMA and our young guys expiring.  Then we'd be cash heavy and could do a lot of things in free agency, all dependent on how our young guys develop.....

[chainsaw 9,869]

Danny Green is reaching Malik Rose levels of loyalty.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

We tendered Davis..... we can now match any offer.

 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

The Lakers know they need to add some stars to attract Lebron. Next 48 hours should be interesting. 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

So..... I've been pounding on this since the "Kawhi wanted out" news came about.  A lot of folks (casual or Lakers fans) have said we don't have any leverage, when I think we have substantial leverage.... at least until the beginning of the season.  Article by ESPN (who is in the tank for the Lakers BTW) about how the heat is getting scorching for Magic and company and they need to get off their ass and blow us away with the best offer (by a lot) including a 1st rounder of consequence (like what Philly did with the Phoenix 2021 first), which they don't currently own.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23924558/pressure-mounting-los-angeles-lakers-acquire-kawhi-leonard

Quote

Now, the price for Leonard would be substantial. The Lakers could have to surrender a combination of former first-round picks from Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and future first-round picks and perhaps restricted free agent Julius Randle in a sign-and-trade agreement.

The Lakers have been hunting a future first-round draft pick on the trade market in recent days, league sources said. That pick could be used to sweeten a prospective trade opportunity.

The Spurs could also push the Lakers to take an unappealing contract off their books. Those are all deal points that would be applicable to leverage, which belongs to the Spurs as long as Lakers president Magic Johnson and GM Rob Pelinka haven't delivered yet on the promise of a blue-chip free agent.

Johnson told reporters in Los Angeles on Tuesday that he'd step down as President of Basketball Operations if he couldn't deliver superstars via free agency or trade over the next two years.

So.... I know a lot of you don't want to deal with LA but you do the best for your organization regardless.  It's business, don't let it get personal.  What would it take for you to trade him to LAL?  I know what I would want, how about you guys?  I thought the S&T with Randle was interesting.  I don't think we want him as LMA is our big, but I do think they could get that first rounder of consequence for Randle.  

Edited June 27, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Ricky Butler 2,723]

15 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Article by ESPN (who is in the tank for the Lakers BTW) about how the heat is getting scorching for Magic and company and they need to get off their ass and blow us away with the best offer (by a lot) including a 1st rounder of consequence (like what Philly did with the Phoenix 2021 first), which they don't currently own.

I still don't buy that this thing is coming to a head so quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron and Paul George sign with LA as free agents with little drama.

 After Magic's comments yesterday, which side benefits the most from this article? Probably the Spurs, right?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Ricky Butler

[texasstrong12 4,668]

I don't see Lebron going to the Lakers to play with a bunch of kids. They need to add stars. 

I think the Lakers will eventually offer something crazy. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

I wonder do the Lakers have enough to sign PG, Lebron and still offer a package for Kawhi?  If Lebron and PG go to LA, our leverage decreases because LA's urgency to make an immediate offer is gone; they'll have 2 stars and can wait another year to pick up Kawhi.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

I think the Spurs have at least some leverage until the last day they can offer Kawhi the Supermax, which I believe is in October. After that point, we got nothing. Make him start the season here. If he holds out and claims his leg is still hurt, then he is going to be vilified. Asshole is still under contract, after all. 

I'd want Kuzma and Ingram for sure. Since they can't trade consecutive first round picks, I would want every other first round pick (unprotected) from them for the next 8 years and the option to swap picks with them (their pick or any other team's pick they somehow acquire) in any year for the next 8 years. If those fuckheads hadn't selected Lonzo Ball's dad with the second pick they would be a lot easier to do business with.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

14 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

I wonder do the Lakers have enough to sign PG, Lebron and still offer a package for Kawhi?  If Lebron and PG go to LA, our leverage decreases because LA's urgency to make an immediate offer is gone; they'll have 2 stars and can wait another year to pick up Kawhi.

What happens if Kawhi is traded to the Sixers?  

I think Lebron is going where he has the best chance to win. 

That's why I think we have more leverage here than some think. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Ricky Butler 2,723]

12 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

What happens if Kawhi is traded to the Sixers?  

I think Lebron is going where he has the best chance to win. 

That's why I think we have more leverage here than some think. 

If Lebron is going where he has the best chance to win, then he is not going to the Lakers. If he goes to the Lakers, then he didn't go to the place where he has the best chance to win.

[PilotsError 2,287]

He might if he thought he was getting PG and KL.

[Ricky Butler 2,723]

5 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

He might if he thought he was getting PG and KL.

I don't know what is in his head, but Houston, Boston, and Philly are obviously ahead of LA because of a combination of current rosters and future assets.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

15 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I don't know what is in his head, but Houston, Boston, and Philly are obviously ahead of LA because of a combination of current rosters and future assets.

PG, Lebron and Kawhi is pretty salty if they get it done. Which is why they are likely all in on landing Kawhi. Not just because Kawhi is legit but the fact they need a better roster to attract Lebron. 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Ricky Butler 2,723]

6 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

PG, Lebron and Kawhi is pretty salty if they get it done. Which is why they are likely all in on landing Kawhi. Not just because Kawhi is legit but the fact they need a better roster to attract Lebron. 

 

Absolutely that's a great foundation, and I think that's what Lebron wants. It's just my opinion that it isn't the best chance to win titles. I bet that group could win one in the next four years, but if he joined Houston, I imagine they would be the favorites.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

15 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Absolutely that's a great foundation, and I think that's what Lebron wants. It's just my opinion that it isn't the best chance to win titles. I bet that group could win one in the next four years, but if he joined Houston, I imagine they would be the favorites.

I'll take Kawhi, PG and Lebron over CP3, Harden and Lebron. 

A lot would depend on how the roster fills out for both teams. 

I have no faith in CP3's health moving forward. But I guess you could say the same about Kawhi to a degree. 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Ricky Butler 2,723]

9 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

I'll take Kawhi, PG and Lebron over CP3, Harden and Lebron. 

A lot would depend on how the roster fills out for both teams. 

I have no faith in CP3's health moving forward. But I guess you could say the same about Kawhi to a degree. 

 

I agree on paper, but Houston has a philosophy and won 65 games last year. I think it's fair to say if Lebron went there, it would only improve their chances.

[Radical Larry 28,626]

Don’t cave in. Keep driving up their price.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

59 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I still don't buy that this thing is coming to a head so quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron and Paul George sign with LA as free agents with little drama.

 After Magic's comments yesterday, which side benefits the most from this article? Probably the Spurs, right?

Definitely the Spurs.  Here's the thing, if Lebron wants a super team, then for accounting purposes, a trade really should be agreed upon before or right after July 1st.  Lakers need to make a ton of moves and there is a certain sequence in which is makes it much easier for them and allow them some space to keep a few assets.  Windhorst (Lebron) has been saying July 4thish Lebron will make a decision about what he wants to do.  This fall in line with what PG wants to do.  But if they want that 3rd superstar (Kawhi) there, transactions need to be made and it will affect how they acquire the other two. 

Now, if George shocks the world and stays with OKC, then Lebron ain't coming without another star.  He'll be 34 years old.  He has a number of good years left but I wouldn't be shocked if last year was the best year remaining in his career.  He doesn't want to wait around until he's 35 to try and legitimately contend for another title.

58 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

What happens if Kawhi is traded to the Sixers?  

I think Lebron is going where he has the best chance to win. 

That's why I think we have more leverage here than some think. 

If I'm guessing, I think this turns into a Philly vs Lakers bidding war with Ainge in there to drive up the price for both.  I think if it's not the Lakers and the Cavs can somehow land Kemba, Lebron goes back to Cleveland on a S-T deal and stews about how PG and/or the Spurs fucked him.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

I wonder do the Lakers have enough to sign PG, Lebron and still offer a package for Kawhi?  If Lebron and PG go to LA, our leverage decreases because LA's urgency to make an immediate offer is gone; they'll have 2 stars and can wait another year to pick up Kawhi.

Yes, they do if one of them (Lebron or PG) signs as a UFA.  Again, Lebron will be 34 years old in December.... he ain't about waiting around.  He'll want to arm the Lakers for a run this year and Kawhi could miss his window to the Lakers and have to settle for the Clippers next summer if he's hellbent on LA, which I don't think he is.  I think it's his preference, but IMO, he simply wants to go to a contender with a solid team and away from SA.  At least that what his Uncle wants.

Now, there are a bunch of different ways this could go sideways on the Spurs so it's a tenuous high wire act, but the Lakers want to build that super team to attract Lebron and times ticking.