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2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Ricky Butler

Ricky Butler 2724

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8 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Yes, they do if one of them (Lebron or PG) signs as a UFA.  Again, Lebron will be 34 years old in December.... he ain't about waiting around.  He'll want to arm the Lakers for a run this year and Kawhi could miss his window to the Lakers and have to settle for the Clippers next summer if he's hellbent on LA, which I don't think he is.  I think it's his preference, but IMO, he simply wants to go to a contender with a solid team and away from SA.  At least that what his Uncle wants.

Now, there are a bunch of different ways this could go sideways on the Spurs so it's a tenuous high wire act, but the Lakers want to build that super team to attract Lebron and times ticking.

This thread is so much more fun than the June recruiting forum.

Would you prefer a package centered around Ingram, Jaylen Brown, or Fultz-Saric? Obviously, the filler and picks matter, but if the Spurs make the best deal for them regardless of conference, which do you prefer?

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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

Tony Parker also took multiple contracts at less than market value to keep the roster intact. David Robinson had a clause in his contract where his salary had to be among the top 2 paid players in the

Radical Larry
Radical Larry

He only played nine times. Niiiiine times.

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

That's bullshit. Other than drilling Brent Barry's wife (and really, who could blame him) he has been a model Spur. Always put team first. Never complained about touches. Never got into any trouble of

Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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28 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

This thread is so much more fun than the June recruiting forum.

Would you prefer a package centered around Ingram, Jaylen Brown, or Fultz-Saric? Obviously, the filler and picks matter, but if the Spurs make the best deal for them regardless of conference, which do you prefer?

Here would be my tenets for a trade with each team.  This would be my ask and position (not saying we'll get this).

LA:

1.  We're not taking Luol Deng's contract.  STFU with that.  Solve your own mess.

2.  Patty Mills, a good bench shooter, is being attached to Kawhi.

3.  Ingram and Kuzma are required.  No excuses.

4.  2 first rounders, including one from a bad team in next 2 seasons with no protections.

Then you can work the rest out.  Do we take Josh Hart?  Okay, fine.  Or Wagner?  Okay, whatever.  I don't know how the Spurs see those guys but picking up one is fine.

 

Philly:

1.  Patty Mills, a good bench shooter, is being attached to Kawhi.  If you don't want him, find a 3rd team who will take him.

2.  Dario Saric, Markell Fultz, and Z Smith are required.

3.  2 first rounders, including the Suns 2021.

Figure out the rest.  If we like Covington as a player, then take him.  If not, then we'd probably have to take Bayless for cap reasons.

 

I think the meat of the deals.... Lakers have the better players.  Ingram/Kuzma > Saric/Fultz (although we have no idea about him b/c it's a lost year).

But the other parts of the deal?  Philly has better pieces with Smith and that Pho draft pick.  So the Lakers probably need to really try and get a good first rounder for us.

The reason we want to get rid of Patty is because we want to re-set our roster.  We could have all these young guys and LMA next free agent period if we're smart.  Gasol would be on a partially guaranteed deal and easy to deal at this year's deadline (he wants to ring chase anyway).

Look at the 3rd column which is 2019-2020 and take away Kawhi, Gasol and Patty's numbers.  We'd have cap holds and the youngsters cap figures but they'd all be on rookie deals.  We could get right back into a good free agent market next summer armed with a young team and 2 extra first rounders in the future.  We could legitimately have close to 50 million in cap space next summer this way.

Caveat:  As long as we don't do anything stupid like give Tony a 3 year deal or sign a shitty free agent beyond a one year deal.

Name 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 2021-22
LaMarcus Aldridge $21,461,010 $22,347,015 $26,000,000 $24,000,000  
Kawhi Leonard $18,868,625 $20,099,189 $21,329,752    
Pau Gasol $16,000,000 $16,800,000 $16,000,000    
Tony Parker $15,453,126        
Patty Mills $10,714,286 $11,571,429 $12,428,571 $13,285,714  
Danny Green $10,000,000 $10,000,000      
Rudy Gay $8,406,000 $8,826,300      
Manu Ginobili $2,500,000 $2,500,000      
Kyle Anderson $2,151,704 $4,749,591      
Tim Duncan (stretched) $1,881,250 $1,881,250      
Joffrey Lauvergne $1,524,305 $1,656,092      
Derrick White $1,404,600 $1,667,160 $1,948,080 $3,516,284 $5,274,426
Bryn Forbes $1,312,611 $1,699,698      
Dejounte Murray $1,312,611 $1,544,951 $2,321,735 $3,482,603  
Davis Bertans $1,312,611 $1,699,698      
Livio Jean-Charles (waived) $1,035,200        
Brandon Paul $815,615 $1,378,242 $1,803,038    
Darrun Hilliard          
Matt Costello          
Guaranteed Total: $116,153,554 $78,410,994 $45,128,571 $20,285,714  
Inclusive Total: $116,153,554 $108,420,615 $81,831,176 $44,284,601 $5,274,426

 

Player Option / Team Option / Qualifying Offer / Non-Guaranteed / Early Termination / Not With Team
Edited by Patrick Bateman
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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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Am I the only one  that would welcome lonzo as part of a Lakers deal?  I imagine pop has the juice to  tell lavar to stfu. Assuming all that bullshit gets taken care of, he's  a pretty good player.  Engel land could probably work on his shot.  Although one of these stories said spurs weren't interested, but that could have just been speculation 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

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18 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Am I the only one  that would welcome lonzo as part of a Lakers deal?  I imagine pop has the juice to  tell lavar to stfu. Assuming all that bullshit gets taken care of, he's  a pretty good player.  Engel land could probably work on his shot.  Although one of these stories said spurs weren't interested, but that could have just been speculation 

we already have a young PG that has shooting issues. Not much need for Lonzo when we already have Murray. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Am I the only one  that would welcome lonzo as part of a Lakers deal?  I imagine pop has the juice to  tell lavar to stfu. Assuming all that bullshit gets taken care of, he's  a pretty good player.  Engel land could probably work on his shot.  Although one of these stories said spurs weren't interested, but that could have just been speculation 

1.  Yes.

2.  How does he play with Murray?

3.  Fuck Lavar Ball

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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Am I the only one  that would welcome lonzo as part of a Lakers deal?  I imagine pop has the juice to  tell lavar to stfu. Assuming all that bullshit gets taken care of, he's  a pretty good player.  Engel land could probably work on his shot.  Although one of these stories said spurs weren't interested, but that could have just been speculation 

tenor.gif

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18550

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59 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I've been on this too..... this is all Klutch Sports, Lebron and the Lakers trying to maneuver pieces.  That's fine, but it's going to cost you....... everything we want or he's going to Philly and won't be able to make it to LA next year after you go over the cap this year.

Yeah... the Spurs are going to jump all over making sure the Lakers get Kawhi and Lebron and Paul George. Who the fuck do they think they are dealing with, Billy King?

That injury faking mute is still under contract for another year. I would let him walk for nothing after the season before enabling those dickheads to put together another superteam. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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The Cavs got a broken star coming off a career altering (borderline ending) injury, a borderline rotation 3 and D guy, and a throw away scrub plus one first round pick for Kyrie on a two year deal. Even a blind homer should be able to see that Kawhi coming off a mysteriously worse than predicted injury on a one year deal is not worth more than that.

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Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious 516

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7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

The Cavs got a broken star coming off a career altering (borderline ending) injury, a borderline rotation 3 and D guy, and a throw away scrub plus one first round pick for Kyrie on a two year deal. Even a blind homer should be able to see that Kawhi coming off a mysteriously worse than predicted injury on a one year deal is not worth more than that.

Just because the Cavs FO made a dumb move doesn't mean the Spurs should follow their lead.  Let Leonard play out the year or rot on the bench if he's still "injured" and he can take the huge pay next offseason to play in Los Angeles.

Edited by Captain Obvious
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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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A lot can happen over the course of a season. I'd rather make Kawhi play (or sit and kill even more of his value) for a year and give the Lakers the opportunity to set themselves on fire for another season than send him there now. It's either that or send him to the East team that can provide the appropriate value. Sending him West may very well guarantee that the Spurs face him in the playoffs next year. We don't want that.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21858

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1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Yeah... the Spurs are going to jump all over making sure the Lakers get Kawhi and Lebron and Paul George. Who the fuck do they think they are dealing with, Billy King?

That injury faking mute is still under contract for another year. I would let him walk for nothing after the season before enabling those dickheads to put together another superteam. 

I get that sentiment, but letting him walk for nothing would be suicide.  We pushed all our chips in with the Kobe, Pau, Howard, Nash experiment, and when that went bust, it was 6+ years of rebuilding from absolute ground zero.  And it sucked.  Getting a haul of a couple quality young players and a pick is lightyears better than digging your heels in.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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You shouldn't go into the season with Kawhi unless there's a breakthrough on the relationship and he signs an extension.  Having him on the team when everyone else in the locker room knows he doesn't want to be there, isn't checked in, doesn't want to be their teammate is toxic.  It sounds good in theory or on your computer screen but it's basically retarded.  It's also about the time we start losing leverage so either you make headway on the relationship within a 4-6 weeks or you trade him within the time period.  You may be able to extend to the start of the season but at that point, the options become less desirable.  

My thought is we're going to make Lebron squirm unless the Lakers go out and basically give us their franchise besides I think we want to see what kind of headway we can make going into the supermax window which begins July 17th (IIRC).  This doesn't jibe with Lebron's time table..... tough shit.  If PG and Lebron go there and they match Randle's offer sheet.  Cool, no money for you next year to go as a FA, Kawhi.  Then all of sudden everywhere else looks much much better.  Again, I've never been of the mindset he'll only go to the Lakers.... That's what Lebron and Klutch want everyone to think.

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mapplewhite132

mapplewhite132 309

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I get that sentiment, but letting him walk for nothing would be suicide.  We pushed all our chips in with the Kobe, Pau, Howard, Nash experiment, and when that went bust, it was 6+ years of rebuilding from absolute ground zero.  And it sucked.  Getting a haul of a couple quality young players and a pick is lightyears better than digging your heels in.



There are other teams to trade with besides a conference rival. Fuck the lakers
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Surlybastard

Surlybastard 65

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11 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I get that sentiment, but letting him walk for nothing would be suicide.  We pushed all our chips in with the Kobe, Pau, Howard, Nash experiment, and when that went bust, it was 6+ years of rebuilding from absolute ground zero.  And it sucked.  Getting a haul of a couple quality young players and a pick is lightyears better than digging your heels in.

Not only that but I think the Spurs holding onto KL just to spite him isn't a good look moving forward. It says they'd rather have their lockerroom in chaos for a year and not get any good assets just because they want to control Kawhi and hate how he tried to create leverage to get out. Today's nba players aren't going to line up to play for an organization that does things like that especially when its rumored that Pop will be stepping down by 2020. The Spurs should look to get max value now and then look to rebuild. At some point it needs to be done. I think moving him for the Clippers picks in the draft a week or so ago would have been the best move if the Spurs' brass is deadset against dealing with the Lakers.

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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8079

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11 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I get that sentiment, but letting him walk for nothing would be suicide.  We pushed all our chips in with the Kobe, Pau, Howard, Nash experiment, and when that went bust, it was 6+ years of rebuilding from absolute ground zero.  And it sucked.  Getting a haul of a couple quality young players and a pick is lightyears better than digging your heels in.

Nay

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21858

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20 minutes ago, mapplewhite132 said:

 


I just mean the spurs will certainly have more options than just the lakers...if they put together the best deal then, yeah, we should probably take it.

 

And that's my point.  Don't say no out of spite.  You have to do what is in the best interest of your team.  And if that leads us to have a starting 5 that includes LBJ, PG, and KL, well then that's just OK.

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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And that's my point.  Don't say no out of spite.  You have to do what is in the best interest of your team.  And if that leads us to have a starting 5 that includes LBJ, PG, and KL, well then that's just OK.
That isn't in the best interest of the team because between that lineup and GS, you are guaranteeing that you won't make the WCF for at least 3 years. Send Kawhi east for value or send him West for value after LeBron signs.
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21858

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10 minutes ago, Eastwood said:
27 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:
And that's my point.  Don't say no out of spite.  You have to do what is in the best interest of your team.  And if that leads us to have a starting 5 that includes LBJ, PG, and KL, well then that's just OK.

That isn't in the best interest of the team because between that lineup and GS, you are guaranteeing that you won't make the WCF for at least 3 years. Send Kawhi east for value or send him West for value after LeBron signs.

If the Spurs lose Kawhi, they SHOULD start planning for 3 years from now.

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Chico_SA

Chico_SA 521

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Am I allowed to say this?  I can't lie, when I saw him scratching his head and chewing his tongue years ago, I kind of worried about him.  Not sure if the guy is capable of making a good decision on his own. The guy is just off. There, I said it. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3916

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24 minutes ago, Eastwood said:
40 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:
And that's my point.  Don't say no out of spite.  You have to do what is in the best interest of your team.  And if that leads us to have a starting 5 that includes LBJ, PG, and KL, well then that's just OK.

That isn't in the best interest of the team because between that lineup and GS, you are guaranteeing that you won't make the WCF for at least 3 years. Send Kawhi east for value or send him West for value after LeBron signs.

Are you under the impression we're going to be contenders for at least 2 years if/when we trade Kawhi?  

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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Are you under the impression we're going to be contenders for at least 2 years if/when we trade Kawhi?  
Won one against GS without him. So we should just fold up shop with what could be Pop's last two years and the remainder of Aldridge's prime? Might as well go clearinghouse and get as many picks and young guys as possible. But they didn't. Which tells me they are intending to compete as long as Pop is running the show.
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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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What if Kawhi gets traded to the Lakers for Kuzma, Ingram, and picks (or Lonzo or Randall). Then when Kawhi is an unrestricted free agent next year he re-signs with the Spurs

Then Pop reveals it was all a grand plot to steal young players from the Lakers and rebuild a contender.

Kawhi would go from being hated to beloved and would be on a long term contender all while crippling a hated rival. This would also work with Philly.

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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8079

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 There are two ways to affect your competitiveness. First, by building up your own team. Second, by not helping a rival build up theirs. That isn’t to say a swap of Kawhi for most of LA’s better talent would help the Lakers very much in itself.

As currently constructed, I don’t see the Spurs being highly competitive against the elite teams any time soon unless Kawhi returns happy and at full health and some combo of Murray, Walker, White and/or Bertans really blow up quickly. Even that might not be enough to offset the presumed loss or at least further decline of TP, Manu and LMA. And I’m not sure I see Pop staying with all this a whole lot longer anyway.

That 2014 title did a lot to boost my feeling of contentment with whatever happens next. I want us to be great again, but I don’t see the next window for that clearly at all. In large part, that’s because even freeing up cap space is zero guarantee of luring elite FA talent. And if we’re going to be mediocre or worse for awhile, I at least want to feel we didn’t directly help a rival during our decline. 

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

I think you guys are missing the big picture in all this and that is sending Kawhi to the Lakers in order to entice Lebron to sign with LA will also fuck over the Rocket's hopes and dreams. 

Any rockets fan that seriously thought LeBron was going to take his talents to Galveston were delusional.  But they also think every other team in the league is fighting over a trade for Ryan Anderson.  

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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I stole this link from another thread. But here's the related part. 

 

 

12. Finally, yes, the Spurs are among the teams being called on by the Cavs. Other than the Cavs trying to pry away Leonard, there’s no information on who else is being discussed. If a deal ever happens, you can bet it will cost the Cavs at least Kevin Love or first-round draft pick Collin Sexton — or both.

http://amicohoops.net/dribbles-cavs-beyond-busy-with-lebron-decision-looming/

 

Just thought it was funny that someone thought the spurs would want Kevin love.   Like they need another below average athleticism big man. 

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Ricky Butler

Ricky Butler 2724

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10 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Here would be my tenets for a trade with each team.  This would be my ask and position (not saying we'll get this).

LA:

1.  We're not taking Luol Deng's contract.  STFU with that.  Solve your own mess.

2.  Patty Mills, a good bench shooter, is being attached to Kawhi.

3.  Ingram and Kuzma are required.  No excuses.

4.  2 first rounders, including one from a bad team in next 2 seasons with no protections.

Then you can work the rest out.  Do we take Josh Hart?  Okay, fine.  Or Wagner?  Okay, whatever.  I don't know how the Spurs see those guys but picking up one is fine.

 

 

Seems fair for both sides. You HAVE to assume Pop can maximize whatever young guys they get. The Lakers probably do it in a heartbeat if Kawhi guarantees James and George.

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