2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

The "off the court stuff" is 100% why it will never happen. Pop ain't got time for Lavar Ball.

Exactly..... Stop with the Lonzo shit.  98% he's never a Spur.  He could be in the trade if it's a multi team one, and he can play, but we don't want his circus....

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

FTR, I still think we should wait, especially until the Paul George decision..... Regardless of what happens there, we'll continue to have leverage with the Lakers, however if he doesn't go, then I think it opens some options for us.  If he goes, Lebron still wants his super team and it includes Kawhi.

[C-Man 27,230]

8 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

FTR, I still think we should wait, especially until the Paul George decision..... Regardless of what happens there, we'll continue to have leverage with the Lakers, however if he doesn't go, then I think it opens some options for us.  If he goes, Lebron still wants his super team and it includes Kawhi.

Gagree. Want to hear pitches from Boston and Philly along with the Lakers.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

27 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

FTR, I still think we should wait, especially until the Paul George decision..... Regardless of what happens there, we'll continue to have leverage with the Lakers, however if he doesn't go, then I think it opens some options for us.  If he goes, Lebron still wants his super team and it includes Kawhi.

PG not signing with the Lakers would create even more leverage for us. I think it's obvious Lebron wants to be in LA but he wants some stars on the roster. 

See the SAS report from today that Lebron has been texting KD to join him in LA. 

Kind of weird how this has played out. In a way, this is a good time to trade Kawhi because Lebron is creating a lot of leverage for us. Obviously the preferred option would be to keep Kawhi but that's out of the question it seems. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by texasstrong12

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

40 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Based on the things that have come out in the last few weeks, I think Kawhi was healthy at the end of the season.

Interesting.   This all makes me wonder what really drives kawhi.  If it were money and chances at a ring he'd sign that max deal with the spurs.  I guess is family. 

[C-Man 27,230]

7 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Interesting.   This all makes me wonder what really drives kawhi.  If it were money and chances at a ring he'd sign that max deal with the spurs.  I guess is family. 

Nobody seems to give a shit about wanting to examine his medical shit very closely. That makes me think Kawhi's camp has given teams assurances that he's 100% ready to go. It also makes Kawhi an even bigger shit-heel than I previously thought he was. You will never have heard somebody booed as vociferously as he will be booed when he returns to the AT&T Center in another uniform.

[Orca of Peace 109]

9 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Nobody seems to give a shit about wanting to examine his medical shit very closely. That makes me think Kawhi's camp has given teams assurances that he's 100% ready to go. It also makes Kawhi an even bigger shit-heel than I previously thought he was. You will never have heard somebody booed as vociferously as he will be booed when he returns to the AT&T Center in another uniform.

so you think he gets the Boo Gold?

Gold - KL

Silver - KD in OKC

Bronze - Bron in CLE

[C-Man 27,230]

7 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

so you think he gets the Boo Gold?

Gold - KL

Silver - KD in OKC

Bronze - Bron in CLE

Definitely. The end game is much, much worse than any of the others.

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

16 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Definitely. The end game is much, much worse than any of the others.

The level of bitchassedness is definitely higher as well.

[Captain Obvious 516]

23 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

so you think he gets the Boo Gold?

Gold - KL

Silver - KD in OKC

Bronze - Bron in CLE

At least KD and LeBron continued to play while under contract (especially in the playoffs).  Leonard pulled a D-Rose and asked to be traded.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Captain Obvious

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

Spurs should make Kawhis first game back in SA $1 BEER night.  He might get booed the entire first quarter.   Or I wouldn't be surprised if he fakes an injury and doesn't even play that game. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

31 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

PG not signing with the Lakers would create even more leverage for us. I think it's obvious Lebron wants to be in LA but he wants some stars on the roster. 

See the SAS report from today that Lebron has been texting KD to join him in LA. 

Kind of weird how this has played out. In a way, this is a good time to trade Kawhi because Lebron is creating a lot of leverage for us. Obviously the preferred option would be to keep Kawhi but that's out of the question it seems. 

I'm not sure how Lebron feels about playing with the kids..... Again, he's always wanted a super team of 3 stars and leveraged his way to it twice already.  If PG decides on the Lakers, I think he still would want Kawhi onboard but perhaps Magic and company wouldn't feel as much pressure b/c they have PG now.  Idk.  Another huge motivating factor is Randle.  If Randle gets signed to an offer sheet really early, it really puts the Lakers on the clock b/c they'll have 72 hours to match or let him go.  What if PG hasn't made up his mind?  What if PG wants his Bird rights so he can get the bigger offer and escalation?  This is why the Lakers want to get a deal done now IMO.  So look at the scenarios for the Lakers.

1.  PG decides he doesn't want to go to OKC.  Lebron needs Kawhi or CP3 or the Lakers won't get anyone.  Randle probably is matched.  Magic will be evicarated in the press and if Kawhi doesn't go there next year, he's fucked and he's an abject failure by his own words and standards. 

2.  PG decides he's going to LA.  Lebron signs on but Lebron knows it's still not enough to beat the Warriors next year.  He still wants Kawhi in the mix but if they can't then they probably match Randle and hope to trade him next year for another star.  Problem for Kawhi here is there is no money for him to go the Lakers next year.  So the Laker situation is a dead avenue unless a trade takes place while his number is low (this year).

Regardless, Magic is still fucking around..... so we'll wait and let him decide when he wants to get serious..... It appears he thought Ingram by himself would get shit done.

Quote

According to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, the Lakers offered Brandon Ingram and a future first rounder for Kawhi Leonard.

Magic Johnson called Ingram "untouchable" last summer, but he changed his tune a couple months ago. Wojnarowski adds that Leonard has expressed his desire to sign with Los Angeles in free agency in 2019, but the Lakers want to get a deal done now so they can make a better pitch to LeBron James. The Spurs turned down this offer and are "seeking a far more complete haul of Lakers young players and future picks," so there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Yup. If the Lakers want Kawhi they're gonna have to offer Kuzma and Ingram. 

This is pretty much what I expected though. I actually think the Spurs and Lakers value Kuzma more. Lakers don't want to give him up and the Spurs want him. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yup. If the Lakers want Kawhi they're gonna have to offer Kuzma and Ingram. 

And other stuff..... picks, Hart, etc.....

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

9 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yup. If the Lakers want Kawhi they're gonna have to offer Kuzma and Ingram. 

If I was the Lakers, I do this in a heartbeat. If Kawhi is healthy, you can't lose a trade for him.

[Captain Obvious 516]

7 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yup. If the Lakers want Kawhi they're gonna have to offer Kuzma and Ingram. 

Kuzma + Ingram + picks or the Spurs should just wait until the trade deadline unless another team blows them away.  If the Lakers want the Spurs to essentially deliver LeBron and PG as well, give up picks and young, talented players or GTFO.

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

8 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Kuzma + Ingram + picks or the Spurs should just wait until the trade deadline unless another team blows them away.  If the Lakers want the Spurs to essentially deliver LeBron and PG as well, give up picks and young, talented players or GTFO.

Kawhi being on the Spurs roster opening day seems untenable at this point.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

He might not be on the active roster but if you're only going to get penny to the dollar on value why not wait until the trade deadline? 

The Spurs can play the long game here. You don't give up a top 5 player for nothing. 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

He might not be on the roster but if you're only going to get penny to the dollar on value why not wait until the trade deadline? 

The Spurs can play the long game here. You don't give up a top 5 player for nothing. 

Again the Spurs have leverage through the summer and then we lose a ton.  Around the trade deadline we might get a little back but if the rumored call b/w Kawhi and Pop went as poorly as reported (and there is a ton of misinformation being put out by Lebron's camp so take with a grain of salt), then you get this done by Sept 1st.  Kyrie trade went down in August....

Edited June 28, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

Yep..... I think Ainge is just sniffing around to see if we're desperate.  Sorry, this isn't Cleveland, Danny.  I think once a deal is close or imminent, he'll come in with a good offer to perhaps drive up the price a tad, but I don't think he'll give up what he needs to unless we're going to just give Kawhi to Philly in a shitty deal.

[aggie08 21,504]

30 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

The level of bitchassedness is definitely higher as well.

The wild part is, unlike almost every other superstar in any sport that left his team and got crushed for it, Kawhi was arguably the biggest piece of a championship before he left (the '14 Spurs were the epitome of team, spread-the-wealth basketball, but Kawhi was DPOY and Finals MVP).  All of the goodwill that he should have, he's already completely burned through.  Had he handled his business professionally like LMA and gotten traded at his request, he still would probably get a decently warm reception for all of his contributions to San Antonio.

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

14 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

He might not be on the active roster but if you're only going to get penny to the dollar on value why not wait until the trade deadline? 

The Spurs can play the long game here. You don't give up a top 5 player for nothing. 

 

I wouldn't call the names floated "pennies on the dollar." If you want to see what that offer looks like, wait until February after Kawhi sat out the first half of the season.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

15 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I wouldn't call the names floated "pennies on the dollar." If you want to see what that offer looks like, wait until February after Kawhi sat out the first half of the season.

Ingram and a meh first round pick is "pennies on the dollar" for a top 5 player. 

I would take the risk even if they ended up getting lower value in February. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

7 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Ingram and a meh first round pick is "pennies on the dollar" for a top 5 player. 

I would take the risk even if they ended up getting lower value in February. 

 

 

You're omitting an important distinction: "for a top 5 player that is disgruntled, sat out the season, and has asked to be traded."  The Spurs and Kawhi was FUBAR before all the other teams started trying to trade for him.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

14 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

You're omitting an important distinction: "for a top 5 player that is disgruntled, sat out the season, and has asked to be traded."  The Spurs and Kawhi was FUBAR before all the other teams started trying to trade for him.

Maybe but Ingram and a first rounder isn't going to get it done. Spurs probably laughed at the Lakers when they offered that. 

It might be a risky play by the Spurs because of the context, but good for them. I wouldn't give up Kawhi for that type of offer either. 

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

10 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Maybe but Ingram and a first rounder isn't going to get it done. Spurs probably laughed at the Lakers when they offered that. 

It might be a risky play by the Spurs because of the context, but good for them. I wouldn't give up Kawhi for that type of offer either. 

I'm not referencing any particular offer. Just saying that this situation is not normal, and the Lakers aren't the only team in a pickle.

[BurdineBandit 815]

Just be patient. Magic will blow his load, he has much more pressure than we do to make this happen now. Ingram, Kuzma and a couple 1st rounders and I'm green-lighting.

My dream scenario is we get Ingram, Kuzma, Randle and a 1st and then turn around and sign LeBron and win the 2019, 2020 and 2021 championships while Kawhi gets to show up in a shitload of awkward Big Baller Brand videos.

[Captain Obvious 516]

10 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I'm not referencing any particular offer. Just saying that this situation is not normal, and the Lakers aren't the only team in a pickle.

True, but the Lakers are trying to woo the best player in the NBA (LeBron), as well as bring in Kawhi and PG to compete for championships.  That play likely goes out the window if they don't get Kawhi.  They are risking the chance to be one of the front runners for the NBA title for the next few years.

The Spurs are rebuilding once Kawhi leaves, with or without a shitty Lakers pick and a decent young player, which is what the Lakers are offering at this point.

The Spurs have far less to lose than the Lakers.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Captain Obvious

[texasstrong12 4,668]

17 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

Just be patient. Magic will blow his load, he has much more pressure than we do to make this happen now. Ingram, Kuzma and a couple 1st rounders and I'm green-lighting.

 

Yup. This is my prediction. 

[chainsaw 9,870]

21 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

You're omitting an important distinction: "for a top 5 player that is disgruntled, sat out the season, and has asked to be traded."  The Spurs and Kawhi was FUBAR before all the other teams started trying to trade for him.

and serious question marks about whether he'll ever play that well ever again.  We could be looking at the next Penny Hardaway here.

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

12 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

True, but the Lakers are trying to woo the best player in the NBA (LeBron), as well as bring in Kawhi and PG to compete for championships.  That play likely goes out the window if they don't get Kawhi.  They are risking the chance to be one of the front runners for the NBA title for the next few years.

The Spurs are rebuilding once Kawhi leaves, with or without a shitty Lakers pick and a decent young player, which is what the Lakers are offering at this point.

The Spurs have far less to lose than the Lakers.

If all that criteria has to be met, then sure. But what we don't know is if Lebron has already made up his mind, and is just going to stick to his plan Kawhi or not.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

18 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

True, but the Lakers are trying to woo the best player in the NBA (LeBron), as well as bring in Kawhi and PG to compete for championships.  That play likely goes out the window if they don't get Kawhi.  They are risking the chance to be one of the front runners for the NBA title for the next few years.

The Spurs are rebuilding once Kawhi leaves, with or without a shitty Lakers pick and a decent young player, which is what the Lakers are offering at this point.

The Spurs have far less to lose than the Lakers.

This is a good explanation as why you don't take Magic's shitty low ball offer of Ingram and a late pick.  He either gives us the farm or you ship Kawhi out East and you either fuck Lebron's plans or your fuck Kawhi's plans..... or you could fuck both.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Captain Obvious 516]

12 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

If all that criteria has to be met, then sure. But what we don't know is if Lebron has already made up his mind, and is just going to stick to his plan Kawhi or not.

The Lakers have far less time here to pay up or risk losing out.  If they want all three, Kawhi has to be traded to them before everything else to make the money work.  Furthermore, LeBron has expressed through his handlers that he doesn't want to be the first star to jump ship to LA this offseason.  Yeah, LeBron could always change his mind even if Kawhi is traded to LA.  I really, really doubt LA is willing to take that risk and end up whiffing on everyone this offseason because they don't want to include an extra young player and an extra pick or two.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Captain Obvious

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

12 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

If all that criteria has to be met, then sure. But what we don't know is if Lebron has already made up his mind, and is just going to stick to his plan Kawhi or not.

Lebron's made up his mind..... his priority is to be in LA with another super team.  If he can't get this, then he'll re-assess his plan B but he's doing everything he can to build his next super team.  A lot of all this noise is Lebron and Klutch Sports' making, including blowing up most of this Kawhi news...... It's why I don't understand why RC and Lebron talk it out to see if they can both get on the same page.....

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

Some things I heard:

1. The Spurs are trying (most likely in vain) to repair the relationship with Kawhi. Someone from the team (Pop, RC, a teammate, staff member, etc.) talks with him directly on a daily basis. 

2. Things were similarly as bad with Aldridge last year as they are with Kawhi this year, and they managed to mend the relationship. The difference is the way both camps handled it. Again, this is amateur night.

3. All the reports about Kawhi being that upset about the way his injury was handled are apparently accurate. He really is that butthurt and it's been exacerbated by his uncle.

4. The Spurs are willing to let this ride out until the season starts including suiting Kawhi up.

5. Twenty whatever years ago, Gregg Popovich traded Dennis Rodman for fucking Will Perdue setting a precedent for how this franchise will be run. There is the Spurs way and there is the NBA way. The Spurs will not be dragged by someone's jackass uncle into running this franchise like a clown show. Whoever said there was a 98% chance the Spurs would never take on Lonzo Ball was completely wrong by exactly 2%. Ultimately, I have a feeling that this is going to be a battle over culture and the Spurs culture is going to win out. 

5. They are going to get the best deal possible and it doesn't matter if it is a western conference team (including the Lakers) or whoever. The notion that they won't work with the Lakers or anybody else is utter nonsense. If they offer the best deal then they will take it.

6. Some semi-related food for thought: there is some scuttlebutt that the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed Patty Mills's shoulder injury prior to his last free agency period, and it cost him big time. That's why they overpaid him last summer.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

7 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Some things I heard:

1. The Spurs are trying (most likely in vain) to repair the relationship with Kawhi. Someone from the team (Pop, RC, a teammate, staff member, etc.) talks with him directly on a daily basis. 

2. Things were similarly as bad with Aldridge last year as they are with Kawhi this year, and they managed to mend the relationship. The difference is the way both camps handled it. Again, this is amateur night.

3. All the reports about Kawhi being that upset about the way his injury was handled are apparently accurate. He really is that butthurt and it's been exacerbated by his uncle.

4. The Spurs are willing to let this ride out until the season starts including suiting Kawhi up.

5. Twenty whatever years ago, Gregg Popovich traded Dennis Rodman for fucking Will Perdue setting a precedent for how this franchise will be run. There is the Spurs way and there is the NBA way. The Spurs will not be dragged by someone's jackass uncle into running this franchise like a clown show. Whoever said there was a 98% chance the Spurs would never take on Lonzo Ball was completely wrong by exactly 2%. Ultimately, I have a feeling that this is going to be a battle over culture and the Spurs culture is going to win out. 

5. They are going to get the best deal possible and it doesn't matter if it is a western conference team (including the Lakers) or whoever. The notion that they won't work with the Lakers or anybody else is utter nonsense. If they offer the best deal then they will take it.

6. Some semi-related food for thought: there is some scuttlebutt that the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed Patty Mills's shoulder injury prior to his last free agency period, and it cost him big time. That's why they overpaid him last summer.

 

Reads like we have a medical staff issue......

[Ricky Butler 2,724]

8 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Some things I heard:

1. The Spurs are trying (most likely in vain) to repair the relationship with Kawhi. Someone from the team (Pop, RC, a teammate, staff member, etc.) talks with him directly on a daily basis. 

They win the offseason if they pull this off. No matter what they get in return, a healthy, happy Kawhi is the best option.

[C-Man 27,230]

10 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

6. Some semi-related food for thought: there is some scuttlebutt that the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed Patty Mills's shoulder injury prior to his last free agency period, and it cost him big time. That's why they overpaid him last summer.

 

Sounds like we might need a new medical staff too

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

The "off the court stuff" is 100% why it will never happen. Pop ain't got time for Lavar Ball.

Agreed.  I cannot even envision Pop putting up with all the baggage/bullshit that this trade would bring.

[chainsaw 9,870]

Serious question though, as much of a distraction as LaVar has been, it has not affected Ball or the Lakers on the court in any way I've seen.

The same cannot be said of "Uncle Dennis."  I'd much rather have LaVar than "Uncle Dennis" so in a way that's still a trade up.  Of course, Kawhi is twice the player Lonzo is, but he does have a lot of upside.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

6 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Serious question though, as much of a distraction as LaVar has been, it has not affected Ball or the Lakers on the court in any way I've seen.

The same cannot be said of "Uncle Dennis."  I'd much rather have LaVar than "Uncle Dennis" so in a way that's still a trade up.  Of course, Kawhi is twice the player Lonzo is, but he does have a lot of upside.

Where's the question?  And how do you know it hasn't affected them on the court?  Lonzo has talent but wasn't particularly great last year.  He got drafted 2nd overall and was the 2nd best rookie on his own team, not in the league.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

14 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Serious question though, as much of a distraction as LaVar has been, it has not affected Ball or the Lakers on the court in any way I've seen.

The same cannot be said of "Uncle Dennis."  I'd much rather have LaVar than "Uncle Dennis" so in a way that's still a trade up.  Of course, Kawhi is twice the player Lonzo is, but he does have a lot of upside.

This is a jhawk level horrible take.

You don't think Lavarr would pull the same shit if Lonzo was on a small market team and one of the best 5 or so players in the world? He would be holding daily press conferences demanding to be traded to the Lakers.

[Hate 20,108]

Just like Becky Hammons, I want nothing to do with the Balls.

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

I don't believe this for a second but it makes it clear, Kawhi's team and Lebron/Klutch Sports are working in concert trying to leverage the Spurs and the Lakers....... Dance, Magic, Dance!

If we don't get the deal we want this weekend, then just let some dominos start falling and turning up the heat....

 

[C-Man 27,230]

17 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

This is a jhawk level horrible take.

You don't think Lavarr would pull the same shit if Lonzo was on a small market team and one of the best 5 or so players in the world? He would be holding daily press conferences demanding to be traded to the Lakers.

Este

[Gut Wagon 8,079]

Stuff like this tests my fandom. And my fandom has never been easily tested. 

[Eastwood 4,394]

Some things I heard:
4. The Spurs are willing to let this ride out until the season starts including suiting Kawhi up.
5. Twenty whatever years ago, Gregg Popovich traded Dennis Rodman for fucking Will Perdue setting a precedent for how this franchise will be run. There is the Spurs way and there is the NBA way. The Spurs will not be dragged by someone's jackass uncle into running this franchise like a clown show. Whoever said there was a 98% chance the Spurs would never take on Lonzo Ball was completely wrong by exactly 2%. Ultimately, I have a feeling that this is going to be a battle over culture and the Spurs culture is going to win out. 

 

I like this.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

And one more unrelated thing... they apparently had Lonnie Walker at #6 on their draft board.

[Gut Wagon 8,079]

6 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

And one more unrelated thing... they apparently had Lonnie Walker at #6 on their draft board.

Hat's off to them. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

Here comes Philly...... I think once PG tells them officially, no thanks, they really start going all in.  As I speculated earlier, Philly wants to try and get Kawhi with one of Saric or Fultz.  Sorry, champ, gonna be both because Covington starts a 4 year extension this year.  Just not enough, but have fun losing to Boston next year.  They'll offer more.....

Quote

Philadelphia’s internal discussions have focused on potential trade packages offering various young players and future draft selections. One team source says preliminary discussions with San Antonio revealed the Spurs have strong interest in a package involving burgeoning forwards Dario Saric and Robert Covington as well as a future first-round pick. A potential, more serious offer that Philadelphia is weighing internally includes Saric and Covington and the 2021 Miami Heat unprotected first-round pick the Sixers obtained in their draft-night deal with the Phoenix Suns. “How do you acquire things that can attract stars and develop stars?” Sixers head coach Brett Brown told reporters that Thursday evening. “That pick might be the key to all of this. That pick might be the thing that links a possible trade.”

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/28/kawhi-leonard-trade-nba-free-agency-spurs-76ers-celtics-lakers