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2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

Tony Parker also took multiple contracts at less than market value to keep the roster intact. David Robinson had a clause in his contract where his salary had to be among the top 2 paid players in the

Radical Larry
Radical Larry

He only played nine times. Niiiiine times.

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

That's bullshit. Other than drilling Brent Barry's wife (and really, who could blame him) he has been a model Spur. Always put team first. Never complained about touches. Never got into any trouble of

C-Man

C-Man 27248

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Gut Wagon said:

I remember the Parker draft. Liked the pick but sure didn't know he'd go on to be such a great leader for so long, much less a clear HOFer. Might not get the full credit he deserves for the team's success, but guys who play that far below the rim seldom have in the modern era of the association. Guy put about a million other players on roller skates nightly and even became a decent outside shooter as the years went by.

 

At least one year in the mid/late 90's when he was at his best, he led the NBA in points-in-the-paint IIRC

Edited by C-Man
Brief search shows he might not have gotten higher than #6 one year but he was the only non-post player on any of those lists it appears
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F250

F250 28809

Posted
Posted
On 7/5/2018 at 4:12 PM, Gut Wagon said:

I'd never wanted to believe it before. I just assumed Kawhi was an innocent kid not well versed in media matters, and that was why he didn't come across as the most effervescent personality. But I'm honestly starting to wonder if maybe the elevator sometimes stops short of the top floor. 

His role in the HEB commercials make sense now.

1445870081401-HEB_Spurs_Teaser_Kawhi_15_

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F250

F250 28809

Posted
Posted

I am bummed about Parker leaving but it seems it was in everyone's best interest for him to move on. I will always love Tony for the loyalty he showed and everything he did for the city of San Antonio.

Also, that Michelle Beadle rant gave me a boner.

 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

$10 mil a year???

Top 3 SG/SF in DRPM last year:

Roberson 3 year $30 million

Covington 4 year $62 million

Kyle Anderson 4 year $37.2 million

If you can defend you will get paid. The league is all about wing players now. If you can defend on the wing you're going to get $$$$$$$. It's also why I want Covington in a trade. It's a much better contract than people think. 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I don't care what that stat says he is a below average defender. 

You would be wrong. Kyle Anderson is going to make an all defensive team in the near future. 

ESPN: DRPM (16th/2nd for SF): 

Basketball Reference: Defensive Win Shares (16th), Defensive Rating (6th), Defensive Box Plus/Minus (3rd). 

Almost every defensive metric last year shows he was good. Certainly not "below average". 

 

Edited by texasstrong12
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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

You would be wrong. Kyle Anderson is going to make an all defensive team in the near future. 

ESPN: DRPM (16th/2nd for SF): 

Basketball Reference: Defensive Win Shares (16th), Defensive Rating (6th), Defensive Box Plus/Minus (3rd. 

Almost every defensive metric last year shows he was good. Certainly not "below average". 

 

Next year will be telling, but I'm with Mitch on this one. KA was effective on a team that played great team defense. Unclear that he will continue to be a plus defender on a team that does not.

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Next year will be telling, but I'm with Mitch on this one. KA was effective on a team that played great team defense. Unclear that he will continue to be a plus defender on a team that does not.

I'm not a big fan of the "it's a system" argument. 

Want to know why Pop loved Anderson in the draft? Why he's been high on him throughout the entire process of development? Pop thinks Anderson is a good player. Players make the system. 

The Spurs continue to be great defensively because Pop keeps paying/drafting players that project to be good defenders. 

Edited by texasstrong12
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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, texasstrong12 said:

I'm not a big fan of the "it's a system" argument. 

Want to know why Pop loved Anderson in the draft? Why he's been high on him throughout the entire process of development? Pop thinks Anderson is a good player. Players make the system. 

The Spurs continue to be great defensively because Pop keeps paying/drafting players that care about being good defenders. 

Minor edit but I think it matters. A subpar athlete on a team full of guys that care about defense can be a good defender because the efficient switching and rotations limit the impact of a lack of quickness. Put Carmelo and Kevin Love on the floor with Kawhi, Roberson, and Anderson and you probably see a dip in Anderson's defensive stats. Like I said, next year will be very interesting to me for this subplot.

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Minor edit but I think it matters. A subpar athlete on a team full of guys that care about defense can be a good defender because the efficient switching and rotations limit the impact of a lack of quickness. Put Carmelo and Kevin Love on the floor with Kawhi, Roberson, and Anderson and you probably see a dip in Anderson's defensive stats. Like I said, next year will be very interesting to me for this subplot.

Fair enough. I'm not even saying we should match the offer. If the Spurs get somebody back in return for Kawhi like Covington than I certainly would be against matching the offer. 

But I bet this is a much tougher decision for Pop/Spurs than people realize. 

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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8086

Posted
Posted

If we were to match, what would our cap situation be?

 

I still believe we're about to enter the closest thing to a rebuild we've seen in over 20 years and that it isn't critical to retain any one role player. But I'm neither the owner not the GM nor the coach, so the actual plan could be vastly different.   

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Radical Larry

Radical Larry 28659

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Gut Wagon said:

If we were to match, what would our cap situation be?

 

I still believe we're about to enter the closest thing to a rebuild we've seen in over 20 years and that it isn't critical to retain any one role player. But I'm neither the owner not the GM nor the coach, so the actual plan could be vastly different.   

We're already hard-capped, even with Parker's cap hold being gone. We'll use Bird Rights to re-sign him. Part of the MLE is going to Marco, so we have what is left of that and the BAE. 

 

So basically, we have shit for cap room unless we start clearing the deck in some trades. 

Edited by Radical Larry
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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18550

Posted
Posted

I shouldn't say Anderson's a below average defender. He's become a very capable team defender. But as an "elite wing defender" he couldn't stay on the floor against the Warriors in the playoffs where you need all of the elite wing defenders you can get. You want to pay $9 million for a defensive specialist who can't guard anybody on Golden State? Someone who can't switch and guard multiple positions is borderline useless nowadays. And god bless Kyle Anderson, but he's not athletic enough to switch onto a smaller player and stay in front of him consistently. He may have had some nice moments against James Harden in that game where the Rockets clearly didn't give a fuck, but other than that I can't remember him ever standing out as even a mediocre man to man defender.

Also, advanced defensive statistics are utter bullshit. You're a million times better off using your eyes. For God's sake, Pau Gasol is a fucking joke of a defensive player nowadays and finished the season top 10 in defensive rating. Boogie Fucking Cousins is a notably terrible defensive player and finished #8.  Russell Westbrook doesn't even bother to close out on shooters half the time and finished 4th in defensive win shares. Kyle Korver finished 8th among shooting guards in DRPM. KYLE KORVER !!!! He couldn't cover a table.

And I have always liked Anderson and if they don't match, I'll be sad to see him go. He's someone who has improved every year in the system and I love his creativity and unselfishness and his playmaking ability. If this were 1985 he'd be a fucking treasure. Even as desperate as they are for guys his size, I don't think I'd match.

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Amos Moses

Amos Moses 795

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think they’ll match - almost no choice given the uncertainty with the clown show still unresolved.  Wonder if they have any room to offer Smart and if they can only do one or the other.  Given that choice I might let Anderson go.

Edited by Amos Moses
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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3918

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Posted

Bye, Kyle.  Good for him but in this years environment, or next years, he’s not worth almost 10 a year.  Nowhere close.  His agent is probably stunned.... he definitive developed and improved here although he never became the offensive passing wizard we hoped he could become.  Solid player but that contract is silly.....

We need to go bargain shopping for another wing.  I think Bertrans comes back now....

 

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Hate

Hate 20130

Posted
Posted
Bye, Kyle.  Good for him but in this years environment, or next years, he’s not worth almost 10 a year.  Nowhere close.  His agent is probably stunned.... he definitive developed and improved here although he never became the offensive passing wizard we hoped he could become.  Solid player but that contract is silly.....
We need to go bargain shopping for another wing.  I think Bertrans comes back now....
 


I had hoped with his skill set that he could develop into a Boris Diaw type player, but it turned out he didn’t have the strength or the basketball mind of Boris. Oh well, thanks Kyle. You’re leaving the Spurs without me hating you, so you have that going for you.
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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)

Some of this board better prepare themselves for the Spurs matching this offer. I won't be surprised either way but if you think this is an easy decision I don't know what to tell you. This is about the market value for a player like Slow Mo. 

Kyle Anderson is going to be an interesting case study moving forward because the raw numbers say meh and the advanced metrics say the Memphis offer sheet is a bargain. 

Edited by texasstrong12
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Gut Wagon

Gut Wagon 8086

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You have to fill out a roster in some way or other. Maybe they match for Anderson, maybe they don't. I don't have reason to think his situation with the Spurs was toxic in any way, unlike what was apparently going on when PATFO decided not to match on Simmons. 

If things were totally fine with Kawhi (both body and mind) and he was getting the supermax in SA, I think it would be much easier to keep Kyle. We'd still be reasonably competitive, and with more growth by Murray, White and the draftees, you might remain a winner at least under LMA's contract expires. But the way things are at the moment, I guess it largely comes down to how much of a rebuild PATFO are planning to go through. Once we find out if there's a match coming, maybe that tells us what the PATFO mindset is. Perhaps the TP situation has started to tell us, but maybe not.

You know what you have in Kyle, and he knows the system. There's some production there. That said, I don't see a higher ceiling. Yes, he's still young...but if you're looking at what he'll be a couple years out, I can't say I see him becoming much better. And that's true even in the Spurs system. There's a good chance he has a worse RPM playing elsewhere. So while he's arguably a "steadying force" on the SA bench, I have to wonder if he'd merely be taking minutes away from someone with more growth potential. Who that is I'm not sure.

   

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18550

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Posted

After giving this some thought, I'm not sure they have many options other than matching especially given the Kawhi situation. If I understand it correctly, they are hard capped out so what else are they going to do at SF? They have Rudy Gay on another one year rental and that's it. They desperately need minutes from someone who can play the 3/4, and he's really their only option. Plus he's only 24 and has gotten better each year. He should be reaching his prime by the end of the deal. The contract is a bit of a pill to swallow, but it's not Patty Mills or Pau Gasol bad. The cap is going to go up and they can probably unload him if they need to, even with the trade kicker. It hampers them in free agency next year and i could be wrong, but I think next year is going to be another 2016-like shitshow because so many more teams will have cap space. Comparatively, Anderson's contract isn't going to look that horrible in a couple of years.

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BurdineBandit

BurdineBandit 815

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Gut Wagon said:

You have to fill out a roster in some way or other. Maybe they match for Anderson, maybe they don't. I don't have reason to think his situation with the Spurs was toxic in any way, unlike what was apparently going on when PATFO decided not to match on Simmons. 

If things were totally fine with Kawhi (both body and mind) and he was getting the supermax in SA, I think it would be much easier to keep Kyle. We'd still be reasonably competitive, and with more growth by Murray, White and the draftees, you might remain a winner at least under LMA's contract expires. But the way things are at the moment, I guess it largely comes down to how much of a rebuild PATFO are planning to go through. Once we find out if there's a match coming, maybe that tells us what the PATFO mindset is. Perhaps the TP situation has started to tell us, but maybe not.

You know what you have in Kyle, and he knows the system. There's some production there. That said, I don't see a higher ceiling. Yes, he's still young...but if you're looking at what he'll be a couple years out, I can't say I see him becoming much better. And that's true even in the Spurs system. There's a good chance he has a worse RPM playing elsewhere. So while he's arguably a "steadying force" on the SA bench, I have to wonder if he'd merely be taking minutes away from someone with more growth potential. Who that is I'm not sure.

   

Absolutely agree with this. He had a blistering start to the season, but didn't nearly reach blistering after he came back from injury after the all-star. He's pretty decent in the system on a capable bench, but I haven't seen much strides since his first year or two. His shot looked as terrible as ever at times this year (was it the playoffs when he consistently found himself open in the corner yet bricked 3 after 3?). 

I like him, he fits the system, but am ambivalent on resigning. I have my doubts that another team's chemistry and construction will fit his skill-set, but I do know that he's slow and I still operate on the assumption that Memphis plays slow as fuck, so it might work... if we have the space, match. If we don't, thanks for the memories of decent bench play and at times heady moves, but he was no Boris "heady", he was above average. 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4668

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I'm guessing it depends on if they think this laker trade is going down.  Mitch is right,  as it stands there's not much height on the team, but getting Ingram and/or kuzma helps that, then there is no need match.  

Trading with the Sixers would have a bigger impact. Kuzma and Ingram aren't really defensive players. Ingram has potential on that end. Kuzma and/or Ingam plus Anderson work together. 

Now if the Spurs landed Covington from the Sixers I would be against matching the offer for Anderson. Both defensive players that are limited on the offensive end. 

 

Edited by texasstrong12
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