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2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

Patrick Bateman

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3,913

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6 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

After giving this some thought, I'm not sure they have many options other than matching especially given the Kawhi situation. If I understand it correctly, they are hard capped out so what else are they going to do at SF? They have Rudy Gay on another one year rental and that's it. They desperately need minutes from someone who can play the 3/4, and he's really their only option. Plus he's only 24 and has gotten better each year. He should be reaching his prime by the end of the deal. The contract is a bit of a pill to swallow, but it's not Patty Mills or Pau Gasol bad. The cap is going to go up and they can probably unload him if they need to, even with the trade kicker. It hampers them in free agency next year and i could be wrong, but I think next year is going to be another 2016-like shitshow because so many more teams will have cap space. Comparatively, Anderson's contract isn't going to look that horrible in a couple of years.

Davis Bertans is a stretch 4 in our system, he would soak up most of the minutes, if we resign him.  Anderson is a solid player, but the other issue is he complicates the salary cap next year.  We gave Marco a 2nd year (although we don't know the details) and we would be putting ourselves in a situation where it may be hard to get better next year in FA.  Kyle Anderson is a jack of all trades rotational player and we've always paid for corporate knowledge when we were contenders, but what does Kyle Anderson help us do going forward?  He's not a great shooter under 40% outside of 15), he's not a great creator of offense, he doesn't have much post up game, etc.  So if we're rebuilding, or maybe better, reloading, his contract may actually hinder us in free agency next year without having a major impact on wins/losses.  It will come down to what the focus is for the front office.  Win this year for a playoff spot or prepare for the future by keeping our powder for next year..... 

In a lot of ways, this is also the impact of the Kawhi situation.... it's paralyzing us in free agency this year and understanding what direction we need to allocate resources going foward.

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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

Tony Parker also took multiple contracts at less than market value to keep the roster intact. David Robinson had a clause in his contract where his salary had to be among the top 2 paid players in the

Radical Larry
Radical Larry

He only played nine times. Niiiiine times.

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

That's bullshit. Other than drilling Brent Barry's wife (and really, who could blame him) he has been a model Spur. Always put team first. Never complained about touches. Never got into any trouble of

texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4,668

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15 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Davis Bertans is a stretch 4 in our system, he would soak up most of the minutes, if we resign him. 

Bertans isn't very good. 

I get that Bertans would be cheaper but he's not even comparable to Anderson. I thought Bertans had some upside but I haven't seen it yet. 

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Patrick Bateman

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3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Bertans isn't very good. 

I get that Bertans would be cheaper but he's not even comparable to Anderson. 

Who cares..... we're not a contender next year.  If it was a two year deal, then I would probably pull the trigger.

Lost our first game in Vegas today..... Lonnie and White both shot 6-18.  White still looked good, just couldn't shoot today.  Metu had an efficient game.  Just looking at the box score.  No idea how anyone actually played beyond seeing White still looked good.

 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4,668

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7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Who cares..... we're not a contender next year.  If it was a two year deal, then I would probably pull the trigger.

Lost our first game in Vegas today..... Lonnie and White both shot 6-18.  White still looked good, just couldn't shoot today.  Metu had an efficient game.  Just looking at the box score.  No idea how anyone actually played beyond seeing White still looked good.

 

Yeah, we're not a contender.

That's why we should sign somebody like Anderson. He's 24, is an advanced metrics darling, Pop has put years into his development, and his contract would be far from egregious. 

We want to trade Kawhi for young assets but now we're just pushing out young assets that have upside. Doesn't make much sense to me.

If Anderson doesn't live up to his potential in 3 or 4 years so what. We aren't in a championship window right now and based on the Kawhi stuff our timeline  should be about stockpiling young talent instead of putting ourselves in position for big name free agents. 

 

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Patrick Bateman

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2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, we're not a contender.

That's why we should sign somebody like Anderson. He's 24, is an advanced metrics darling, Pop has put years into his development, and his contract would be far from egregious. 

We want to trade Kawhi for young assets but now we're just pushing out young assets that have upside. Doesn't make much sense to me.

If Anderson doesn't live up to his potential in 3 or 4 years so what. We aren't in a championship window right now and based on the Kawhi stuff our timeline our agenda should be stockpiling young talent instead of putting ourselves in position for big name free agents. 

 

So was Cory Joseph, but he had limited upside and we congratulated him and let him go.  So does Anderson, IMO.  What do you think a prime Anderson season looks like on a 50 win team?  12 and 8 in 32 minutes?  Maybe, as he's probably a better glue bench guy, he may not get that many minutes on a real contending team.  Spurs may re-sign him and if we do, fine, let's root him on but it'd be a meh match.  At least it's not a huge mistake like a 100 million dollar deal or something....

And yea, we should be trying to stock pile young assets as we need this year to get guys like Pau and Danny and funnily enough Tim Duncan off the books.... But typically you want cheaper talent with higher upside on first contracts so you also have cap space. 

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4,668

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9 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

What do you think a prime Anderson season looks like on a 50 win team?  12 and 8 in 32 minutes? 

No clue but I think raw numbers like this are a bad way to evaluate somebody like Anderson. 

The advanced metrics say he's an above average to elite defender and that we are much better with him on the court. 

I  have a tough time with the idea of trading Kawhi for young assets and now letting a 24 year old walk after putting up very good numbers from an advanced metrics perspective.

 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2,622

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49 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

 

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, we're not a contender.

That's why we should sign somebody like Anderson. He's 24, is an advanced metrics darling, Pop has put years into his development, and his contract would be far from egregious. 

We want to trade Kawhi for young assets but now we're just pushing out young assets that have upside. Doesn't make much sense to me.

If Anderson doesn't live up to his potential in 3 or 4 years so what. We aren't in a championship window right now and based on the Kawhi stuff our timeline  should be about stockpiling young talent instead of putting ourselves in position for big name free agents. 

 

What is his upside? Other than improving his outside shooting percentage his athleticism limits him to much to expect much more than you've already seen from him.

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texasstrong12

texasstrong12 4,668

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23 minutes ago, Llogg said:

What is his upside? Other than improving his outside shooting percentage his athleticism limits him to much to expect much more than you've already seen from him.

If he's a 12 and 8 guy as mentioned above with the defense he played last year his upside is absolutely worth the offer sheet from Memphis. 

Matter of fact, we would likely be getting a bargain. The rising cap means contracts are only going to increase and that players equal to Anderson's value are going to get more money in the future. 

I'm going to bet us not resigning Anderson would end up putting us in a situation where we pay more for a player with similar upside/talent. 

 

 

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4,394

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Yes, it seems like moving to a smaller market with a more cordial fan base and a front office that will protect him is the best move... But I was talking about San Antonio and now he's talking to Philly, which is in an MSA that is one of the top media markets in the country with citizens who are notoriously some of the worst in sports and a front office that just had to fire their president because he was roasting players through burner Twitter accounts.

I can't wait for the 30 for 30 on this one.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3,913

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17 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

At this point, If Fultz is the deal breaker with the Sixers I would not be upset if we asked for Zhaire Smith in addition to Saric/Covington. 

 

Fultz/saric/Smith/bayless and Phoenix 1st.  That seems fair and when I type fair, I mean we’re getting fucked but it’s where we are...

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texasstrong12

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19 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Fultz/saric/Smith/bayless and Phoenix 1st.  That seems fair and when I type fair, I mean we’re getting fucked but it’s where we are...

I don't think there's any chance the Sixers are giving up this much, but yeah it's probably at least closer to fairer value for Kawhi. 

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2,724

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10 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

I will say this. If we add Saric and Covington we're going to be a lot better than people think next year. 

I was thinking something like this a few days ago.  We were a top 10 team (or close enough) last season,  without a top 5 player.  No matter what spurs hey in a trade,  as long as they are better than who we played last season, we should be better.

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Mitch Cumsteen

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15 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

So was Cory Joseph, but he had limited upside and we congratulated him and let him go.  So does Anderson, IMO.  What do you think a prime Anderson season looks like on a 50 win team?  12 and 8 in 32 minutes?  Maybe, as he's probably a better glue bench guy, he may not get that many minutes on a real contending team.  Spurs may re-sign him and if we do, fine, let's root him on but it'd be a meh match.  At least it's not a huge mistake like a 100 million dollar deal or something....

And yea, we should be trying to stock pile young assets as we need this year to get guys like Pau and Danny and funnily enough Tim Duncan off the books.... But typically you want cheaper talent with higher upside on first contracts so you also have cap space. 

I don't think Cory Joseph is a good comparison only because they already had Parker and Mills under contract and his offer was fairly absurd at the time. It's one thing to lose your third string point guard because Toronto is stupid and wants to overpay for a home town hero. It's another to lose a guy who you may be forced to start on a not catastrophic deal. 

All things being equal, Julius Randle got roughly the same money per season for half the years from New Orleans. I think I would have rather signed up for that. 

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texasstrong12

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3 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I was thinking something like this a few days ago.  We were a top 10 team (or close enough) last season,  without a top 5 player.  No matter what spurs hey in a trade,  as long as they are better than who we played last season, we should be better.

Saric put up 17.2/7.3/3.5  in the playoffs. Covington is one of the best defenders in the league. 

We would have won a lot more games last year with these two on the roster. Saric would be the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on our roster and Covington would be the best defender.

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Patrick Bateman

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3 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I don't think Cory Joseph is a good comparison only because they already had Parker and Mills under contract and his offer was fairly absurd at the time. It's one thing to lose your third string point guard because Toronto is stupid and wants to overpay for a home town hero. It's another to lose a guy who you may be forced to start on a not catastrophic deal. 

All things being equal, Julius Randle got roughly the same money per season for half the years from New Orleans. I think I would have rather signed up for that. 

Would have loved to have Randle on even that short term deal.  Don’t know how u play LMA and him together but a 18-10 guy with good efficiency and coachable is something you want to take a chance on.... fwiw, I think the Spurs probably match Slo Mo as they figure they put too much in to his development and we typically pay for corporate knowledge....

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SilasCoade

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20 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Would have loved to have Randle on even that short term deal.  Don’t know how u play LMA and him together but a 18-10 guy with good efficiency and coachable is something you want to take a chance on.... fwiw, I think the Spurs probably match Slo Mo as they figure they put too much in to his development and we typically pay for corporate knowledge....

Definitely thought the Spurs should have made a significant run at Randle in free agency.

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Patrick Bateman

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2 hours ago, Gut Wagon said:

I like Covington a lot. Not crazy about the fact he’s already 27, but no big deal there. He could ease some transitional pains on offense and defense and is a decent rebounder. 

The issue with Covington is his contract..... It's not terrible or anything, but it's an extension starting this year.  He's also not much of an offensive player although he probably has been relied on a tad too much earlier in his career as he doesn't have a great feel for the offensive game off the dribble.  Low AST%, high TOV%.  Rather have Bayless' expiring to make the money work and that's all Covington is, a guy who could make the money work.  Rotational player but not something we should consider paramount to dealing a top 5-10 player for.  You simply have to be cognizant.  11 million here, 9 million there, 6 over there.  It adds up and all of sudden you have a roster full of role players.  Frankly, just keep Anderson if you have interest in Covington as Slo Mo has experience in the system and is probably just as good or better overall.  

Wonder what we're going to do for another big man..... I have some ideas but some of it will probably hinge on if we're bringing Milutinov over.  We'd probably have to pay more than the minimum....

Derrick White is out with hamstring in SL.  Wouldn't be surprised if he's done for the summer..... Get healthy and get ready.  He has the opportunity to be 4th guard.

I"m really liking Metu BTW.  Think he could contribute this year.  It'd be rocky but he has game.... Needs strength.

 

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Patrick Bateman

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Lonnie's gonna take some time..... maybe as much as 2 years before he really gets it, but holy shit does he have a chance to be really good.  Needs to tweak his shot a little, he starts too low so he's getting the ball stripped a lot, but the release is fine.  Needs some more work on his dribble, but damn.  His athleticism, his upside is immense.  With professional development including all the reps he's going to get, his shot should come around.  Also with White probably done in SL, he should get some run initiating the offense, which will really help him.  

Couple of plays.... This is a ridiculous move.  Seriously, maybe only Kawhi and Rudy when he was younger could do this on our team right now at his height.  I don't mean just making the move but it's the quick and effortless way he gathers and rises off the dribble.  Now, he can't do this with regularity but he can now practice that same move 50 times a day.  

A little D translating to O.....

And dat rise....

Don't get me wrong, he's rough right now..... Way too many turnovers, he doesn't see the court real well right now (game is fast for him), doesn't understand angles on PNR at all, but those are expected.  The natural ability along with some good instincts, give him a real chance to be good.  Also, he seems to really want to make the right play.  Not real selfish.  He'll be frustrating as hell next year, but I like him and think he could be really really good for us by the time he's 22-23.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3,913

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He's not a good defender, but not truly terrible and is still trying to get used to guarding some guys who are quicker and/or bigger than him.  He's a good shooter an has some solid metrics.  Give him 20-24 minutes and he may score about 10-11 points.  Depends on a lot of things, including if we're going to quicken the pace like I think we will.  But agree, he needs to try and defensive rebound a little better.  

 

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