2018 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Into the Great Unknown

[texasstrong12 4668]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Danny was forced to often take the opponent's best offense player.  Not normally his role as Kawhi would match up with the best wing.  Danny's a good defender but doesn't have elite foot speed so he would get exposed some.  Still a very good defender and much longer and more important than someone like Patty, who really struggles defensively because of his size.

 

 I was a huge Danny Green supporter and a lot of Spurs fans undervalued him while he was in SA. 

I think a lot of people are overvaluing this part of the deal though. At least from the Raptor's perspective. 

Green was absolute shit last year offensively and his defense wasn't good enough to really move the needle. He was god awful in the playoffs. 4.2 points per game and .267 from the field. I've always thought Green played an integral role in our defensive success but I came away from that Golden State series thinking Green might be done. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

 I was a huge Danny Green supporter and a lot of Spurs fans undervalued him while he was in SA. 

I think a lot of people are overvaluing this part of the deal though. At least from the Raptor's perspective. 

Green was absolute shit last year offensively and his defense wasn't good enough to really move the needle. He was god awful in the playoffs. 4.2 points per game and .267 from the field. I've always thought Green played an integral role in our defensive success but I came away from that Golden State series thinking Green might be done. 

So you'd rather have Patty?  Green's playing on an expiring deal and makes less than Patty.  Patty would have been the better dump for us.  If Green's done, then it's fine.  He's gone next summer or you could even try and flip him at the trade deadline but he also provides leadership and was integral to keeping the culture going.  That's the conversation, who would fit better next year, Green or Patty?

[Eastwood 4394]

Happy trails, Dopey.

[Radical Larry 28817]

[Hate 20232]

None of it matters now as the deal is done. Welcome Demar and Jakob. Fuck off Kawhi and Uncle Dennis.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

FTR, in everything I've read and seen in interviews and from whispers, DD is as solid a dude as there is in the league.  Good attitude, coachable, good with the press, and often accountable (remember how he handled his benching in the playoffs last year).  Regardless of the contract and whatever, he's a good player and seems to be a great dude.  So welcome and I hope he can find the fountain of 3 point shooting.  

I know he's a little salty about being traded right now, but I anticipate him getting over it really quick and embracing his new home.

[texasstrong12 4668]

14 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

So you'd rather have Patty?  Green's playing on an expiring deal and makes less than Patty.  Patty would have been the better dump for us.  If Green's done, then it's fine.  He's gone next summer or you could even try and flip him at the trade deadline but he also provides leadership and was integral to keeping the culture going.  That's the conversation, who would fit better next year, Green or Patty?

I don't like Patty's contract but yeah I think Patty gives us more at this point just based on their roles. 

I think it's pretty obvious the Spurs tried to prioritize shooting/offense with Belinelli, Forbes and keeping Patty. While at the same time dumping Green and Kyle Anderson who have a bunch of offensive limitations.  

Defense has never been a problem for the Spurs. There's obviously deficiencies in the playoffs but that's expected based on the current roster construction. Unless Green's defense gets back to the near elite level, I don't mind the Spurs prioritizing offense. 

From a purely contract perspective dumping Patty made the most sense. From a basketball/roster perspective keeping Patty probably made more sense than keeping Green.

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Lat22 4070]

Hello darkness my old friend.......

[Ricky Butler 2791]

3 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

People are stupid. The Spurs got a top 25ish player in return for a dude that was going to walk in a year. 

I've said this many times before, teams overvalue young assets/talent. I'm pretty sure the Spurs organization views this the same way. They wanted a proven player.  

 

All of your hypothetical trades over the past three weeks featured multiple good young players and picks. This isn't a great return for the Spurs even though Derozan is a good player. Kawhi messed up their leverage.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

1 minute ago, texasstrong12 said:

I don't like Patty's contract but yeah I think Patty gives us more at this point just based on their roles. 

I think it's pretty obvious the Spurs tried to prioritize shooting/offense with Belinelli, Forbes and keeping Patty. While at the same time dumping Green and Kyle Anderson who have a bunch of offensive limitations.  

Defense has never been a problem for the Spurs. There's obviously deficiencies in the playoffs but that's expected based on the current roster construction. Unless Green's defense gets back to the near elite level, I don't mind the Spurs prioritizing offense. 

Okay.  I simply disagree.  Their 3 point percentage were 1 point away.  36 vs 37%, so trying to argue the shooting end falls short.  And you continue to ignore the business end in any of your analysis.  As of right now, the Spurs have less than 5 million in cap space next year instead of 15 million.  So this is our core.  Is it good enough to contend for a championship?  We have no capability other than the draft or a trading of some of this core to better our team next summer besides an exception here (5 million) and exception there (3 million) and that's with Rudy coming off the books again.  Hopefully Murray's new jump shot is for real.  Hopefully Lonnie becomes an impact NBA player sooner than later.  Hopefully White becomes a rich man's Patty next season.  Hopefully, LMA at age 33 and 34, shows no sign of declination.  Hope is a great thing, Red, maybe the best of things.....

A lot of speculation Toronto may try and trade Kawhi to LA in December if he's still mopey Kawhi.  LOL.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

Just now, Ricky Butler said:

All of your hypothetical trades over the past three weeks featured multiple good young players and picks. This isn't a great return for the Spurs even though Derozan is a good player. Kawhi messed up their leverage.

Yep.... although I prefaced when I began that these were best case scenarios for the Spurs and we probably wouldn't get those.  I'm not a huge fan of this trade (don't think it's disastrous), but it's where we are so have to hope Pop makes DD into a monster.  I'll be happy to root for DeRozan, who seems like a good guy.

  

[d2o 1603]

TOR propped DD as not only the face of their franchise but a model of small market teams being successful at keeping their guys.    Then they trade him a yr later after he led them to their best season in franchise history for a guy who absolutely doesn't wanna be there.    That's not a good look for TOR.     If they flip him again for assets come trade deadline or if they magically change his mind and get him to resign there it's a pretty massive failure.     If come next summer all they have to show for one of the best players in frnachise history that they had locked up for another 3 yrs is Danny Green that is a fireable situation for Ujiri.

[Ricky Butler 2791]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Yep.... although I prefaced when I began that these were best case scenarios for the Spurs and we probably wouldn't get those.  I'm not a huge fan of this trade (don't think it's disastrous), but it's where we are so have to hope Pop makes DD into a monster.  I'll be happy to root for DeRozan, who seems like a good guy.

  

Replying to the other guy.

 

Agree. Not a disaster at all. DD is good, and he fits Pop and LMA's timelines.

[Ricky Butler 2791]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

TOR propped DD as not only the face of their franchise but a model of small market teams being successful at keeping their guys.    Then they trade him a yr later after he led them to their best season in franchise history for a guy who absolutely doesn't wanna be there.    That's not a good look for TOR.     If they flip him again for assets come trade deadline or if they magically change his mind and get him to resign there it's a pretty massive failure.     If come next summer all they have to show for one of the best players in frnachise history that they had locked up for another 3 yrs is Danny Green that is a fireable situation for Ujiri.

He's swinging for the fences. They had their best team ever last year and got swept in the playoffs. They fired their coach after he won coach of the year. This is the exact type of risk taking we often hope for in our GMs.

[Hate 20232]

I finally get some closure on what to do with my son’s Kawhi jersey.

Do I burn it? Cut it up? Donate it to goodwill?

[d2o 1603]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

I finally get some closure on what to do with my son’s Kawhi jersey.

Do I burn it? Cut it up? Donate it to goodwill?

Why would you burn it or cut it up? 

[d2o 1603]

2 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

He's swinging for the fences. They had their best team ever last year and got swept in the playoffs. They fired their coach after he won coach of the year. This is the exact type of risk taking we often hope for in our GMs.

The only block to them is now in LA.    And while I agree it was time to break up DD and FKL.  FKL was the one that needs to go.   Not the guy that last yr you were saying is the face of your franchise.

 

Its just not a good look when you are trying to court big time FAs.

[Hate 20232]

Why would you burn it or cut it up? 

Because he is dead to me. Fuck Kawhi.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

10 minutes ago, d2o said:

TOR propped DD as not only the face of their franchise but a model of small market teams being successful at keeping their guys.    Then they trade him a yr later after he led them to their best season in franchise history for a guy who absolutely doesn't wanna be there.    That's not a good look for TOR.     If they flip him again for assets come trade deadline or if they magically change his mind and get him to resign there it's a pretty massive failure.     If come next summer all they have to show for one of the best players in frnachise history that they had locked up for another 3 yrs is Danny Green that is a fireable situation for Ujiri.

I think he realized they'll never be good enough in Toronto as currently assembled so he decided to go all in on a top 5 player.  I get the risk.  If he can convince Kawhi's people that Toronto is a place where Kawhi can launch and remake his image, which is severely damaged right now, then he wins the trade.  If he can't convince Kawhi to stay, they just blow it up, which they probably would have had to anyway.  Lowry will be 33 and on an expiring.  Ibaka on an expiring.  You move some pieces and get cap room for 2020 and draft picks and start the long rebuilding process.  I totally get it from their perspective if you've become convinced, you'll never be good enough with your current core.  I think it's sort of brilliant.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[texasstrong12 4668]

20 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

All of your hypothetical trades over the past three weeks featured multiple good young players and picks. This isn't a great return for the Spurs even though Derozan is a good player. Kawhi messed up their leverage.

Sure. I would have preferred OG in the trade. What fool is going to tell you he doesn't want young players and picks? 

I was on board with Toronto from the get go once DeRozan was mentioned because I knew he was likely the best possible player the Spurs could get in return. 

So not sure what your point is? I wanted young players and picks with Derozan. Doesn't deny that the Spurs still got a top 25ish player for a dude that was going to walk in a year. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Kermit 3162]

7 minutes ago, Hate said:

I finally get some closure on what to do with my son’s Kawhi jersey.

Do I burn it? Cut it up? Donate it to goodwill?

Toilet rag?

[d2o 1603]

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

 

Because he is dead to me. Fuck Kawhi.

Meh, sounds way too personal for me.   But I hear ya.

[Ricky Butler 2791]

3 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

So not sure what your point is? I wanted young players and picks with Derozan. Doesn't deny that the Spurs still got a top 25ish player for a dude that was going to walk in a year. 

We've been having month long discussions here about what return the Spurs could get. This disappointing return for a top five, all NBA two way player suggests that the Spurs leverage was diminished. That's it.

[texasstrong12 4668]

4 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

We've been having month long discussions here about what return the Spurs could get. This disappointing return for a top five, all NBA two way player suggests that the Spurs leverage was diminished. That's it.

well no shit. Who on this board ever said the Spurs were going to get equal value in return? 

When you're arguing about getting "young players with potential" for a top 5 player it's all you need to know about leverage. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

This is what rubs me wrong too...... We've all enjoyed yelling at him and being unbelievably pissed that a NBA player can't dribble functionally, but Danny was always a "Spur" in his core..... and always will be.

Hope he punches Kawhi in the face when he sees him, but I think they're probably pretty cool with each other.... lol.

[Gut Wagon 8214]

If you're a SoCal-bred athlete yearning to get back home while recovering from a lingering quad injury, your fantasy destination isn't a city 2500 miles away...featuring icy sidewalks for months on end. Break a leg, kid.   

[Ricky Butler 2791]

5 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

well no shit. Who on this board ever said the Spurs were going to get equal value in return? 

When you're arguing about getting "young players with potential" for a top 5 player it's all you need to know about leverage. 

I was just saying that I was right. Which in hindsight is probably not the most compassionate thing do in this thread. The wound is fresh. I apologize. I let my ego get in the way of the well being of my Longhorn internet friends. Have a great day.

[kingkoopa6 8598]

35 minutes ago, Hate said:

I finally get some closure on what to do with my son’s Kawhi jersey.

Do I burn it? Cut it up? Donate it to goodwill?

just remove the name from the back, we are all still fans of the name on the front. no need to destroy a decent jersey

 

[utxmike05 1833]

I tossed my “Kawhi Tho” nike shirt.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[C-Man 27708]

[texasstrong12 4668]

50 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I was just saying that I was right. Which in hindsight is probably not the most compassionate thing do in this thread. The wound is fresh. I apologize. I let my ego get in the way of the well being of my Longhorn internet friends. Have a great day.

My bad if I came across as a dick. That wasn't my intention. 

[cabowabo 4646]

Because he is dead to me. Fuck Kawhi.

This is the correct answer. I'd take a nasty shit and wipe my ass with that Jersey.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

:looooong exhale:

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

36 vs 37%, so trying to argue the shooting end falls short. 

 

Mills shot .414 and .384 from 3 the previous 2 years. He's a better shooter than Green.

Last year Mills wasn't used correctly but that isn't surprising after all the Kawhi nonsense, White's injury, Parker's injury for a lot of the year and Murray being raw. Mills was asked to be a playmaker too much last year. His role should be as a shooting guard vs playmaker/off the dribble type player. 

Put Mills in Danny Green's role where all he does is shoot and his numbers will improve. I think that's the role the Spurs envisioned but context last year changed things. 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Chad 1728]

This is the best the Spurs were going to do. Anyone expecting the King's ransom in exchange for a player who has 1 year left on his deal and sat out in a controversial manner was deluded and it's that simple. The Spurs acquired a potential 1st rounder, a big with promise who was a former Pac 12 player of the year at Utah filling a position of need along with a 20+ PPG player who can so desperately provide a punch as a compliment to LMA that was sorely lacking last season. This trade was about remaining competitive now and with DeRozan the Spurs should still be in the mix for a 3-4 seed and certainly would've been better than a 7 seed last season if they had his services instead of a bitch ass who played 9 games and essentially abandoned his team.

[NoRagrets 1137]

I am pleased with this result.

cant believe how big of a B Kawhi ended up being.

oh well. To our new spurs:

Welcome to the party, pal.

[EvilCaseMcCoy 692]

47 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Mills shot .414 and .384 from 3 the previous 2 years. He's a better shooter than Green.

Last year Mills wasn't used correctly but that isn't surprising after all the Kawhi nonsense, White's injury, Parker's injury for a lot of the year and Murray being raw. Mills was asked to be a playmaker too much last year. His role should be as a shooting guard vs playmaker/off the dribble type player. 

Put Mills in Danny Green's role where all he does is shoot and his numbers will improve. I think that's the role the Spurs envisioned but context last year changed things. 

 

This makes me wonder if they will continue to have Gay come off the bench (starting Patty and DJ at guard and Derozan at SF) 

[C-Man 27708]

35 minutes ago, Chad said:

This is the best the Spurs were going to do. Anyone expecting the King's ransom in exchange for a player who has 1 year left on his deal and sat out in a controversial manner was deluded and it's that simple. The Spurs acquired a potential 1st rounder, a big with promise who was a former Pac 12 player of the year at Utah filling a position of need along with a 20+ PPG player who can so desperately provide a punch as a compliment to LMA that was sorely lacking last season. This trade was about remaining competitive now and with DeRozan the Spurs should still be in the mix for a 3-4 seed and certainly would've been better than a 7 seed last season if they had his services instead of a bitch ass who played 9 games and essentially abandoned his team.

I think the bottom line is would you have rather had:

• Brandon Ingram and a collection of draft picks AND send Kawhi Leonard to the Lakers this season?
• Tobias Harris and whatever else the Clippers could cobble together AND appease Kawhi Leonard by sending him to LA (and stay in the West)?
• DeMarr DeRozan and big man project and likely 1st round pick AND send Kawhi Leonard to NBA Siberia this season?

[C-Man 27708]

12 minutes ago, NoRagrets said:

I am pleased with this result.

cant believe how big of a B Kawhi ended up being.

oh well. To our new spurs:

Welcome to the party, pal.

I'd like to see all the sordid tales come out now that the fucker is gone. I don't mean scorched earth -- that's not PATFO's style -- but the true stories from the insiders who follow the team. I find it interesting that Michael C. Wright's ESPN.com article ledes with: "SAN ANTONIO -- Privately, San Antonio Spurs officials readily admit they're not blameless in this fiasco."

Edited July 18, 2018 by C-Man

[EvilCaseMcCoy 692]

8 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I'd like to see all the sordid tales come out now that the fucker is gone. I don't mean scorched earth -- that's not PATFO's style -- but the true stories from the insiders who follow the team. I find it interesting that Michael C. Wright's ESPN.com article ledes with: "SAN ANTONIO -- Privately, San Antonio Spurs officials readily admit they're not blameless in this fiasco."

Just as any self-aware individual/organization should comment.

RC should win GM of the year. 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

Mills shot .414 and .384 from 3 the previous 2 years. He's a better shooter than Green.

Last year Mills wasn't used correctly but that isn't surprising after all the Kawhi nonsense, White's injury, Parker's injury for a lot of the year and Murray being raw. Mills was asked to be a playmaker too much last year. His role should be as a shooting guard vs playmaker/off the dribble type player. 

Put Mills in Danny Green's role where all he does is shoot and his numbers will improve. I think that's the role the Spurs envisioned but context last year changed things. 

 

If you're going excuse Patty for not being used correctly last year, then you have to afford Danny the same courtesy.  Danny played more minutes at 3 than anytime in his career often playing longer and bigger guys than him.  In a vacuum, is Patty a better shooter than Danny?  Probably so, but Danny is much, much better defensively.  And again, when you put in the contract situations, it's no contest.  Danny is the much better asset to have kept..... Good for Ujiri, he wouldn't take Mills' contract because of the length.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

 

[purplepride95 6890]

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8964]

Yea wtf. I know it's all kawhi but what if Danny likes living in SA paying no state income 55 games a yr. I'd hate him forever

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

 

[C-Man 27708]

36 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Pop won't engage in any "he said/she said" because that's not his style. But you have to know deep down he's pissed it came to this -- probably moreso at Kawhi's family, who I'm quite certain he blames for this happening.

[kopp0e 1135]

13 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Pop won't engage in any "he said/she said" because that's not his style. But you have to know deep down he's pissed it came to this -- probably moreso at Kawhi's family, who I'm quite certain he blames for this happening.

For the Spurs, this is still addition by subtraction of a bad attitude...

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

Vegas doesn't have a lot of faith either....