Why do Republicans in Texas hate Abortion, but embrace and fight to preserve ongoing Child Abuse of the Foster Children in their care?

[horn4life 3755]

While the political battles of the GOP railing against abortion are legendary, I find it interesting how the GOP ALWAYS fights like hell to preserve systems that clearly show that the children that are wards of the State are being abused.   Seems odd,because you would think that care so very, very much about bringing unwanted children into the world would care about them after they are born?

Texas could face $75K a day fines for not protecting foster children.

Quote

Litigation over the years has resulted in court-ordered overhauls in the system, which the state has continued to fight in court. A problem area that has seen chronic failures is Texas' hybrid foster group homes, which can house up to 12 children and have proved to be ripe for abuse and spotty oversight, a 2016 ruling found.

The hybrid system between traditional foster homes and institutional facilities came up when Texas was first found in contempt of the court in November 2019 for failing to provide 24-hour supervision in all placements housing more than six children. The state paid $150,000 in fines in that instance.

Friday's order followed a report from court-ordered monitors of Texas' foster care system that was issued July 2. That report became the basis for the plaintiffs' request for the judge to declare the state in contempt of court. The court monitors investigated Texas' child welfare system for 10 months and concluded that the system was exposing children to "unreasonable risk of harm," the ruling states.

After the report, the plaintiffs claimed the state failed to implement numerous court orders. Those included allegations that the state failed to timely investigate reports of abuse and neglect, failed to review foster home histories that might have patterns of abuse, and failed to protect children from child-on-child sexual abuse while in state custody.

The state argued that the monitors' report was unreliable, but it did not dispute the allegations in it during a September hearing, according to the ruling.

The state's attorneys also argued that they either substantially complied with the court order or made a reasonable effort to comply. But the judge ruled that the state provided no proof of being unable to comply with the orders.

In particular, Jack's order focused on the now-closed Hector Garza treatment center in San Antonio. There, group monitors found during unannounced visits that every one of the facility's more than 100 child residents disliked living there and that 81% had reported being put in restraints that were described as painful.

At that facility and others, children were found sleeping outside of bedrooms reminiscent of Child Protective Services' having foster children sleep in offices because of a lack of housing facilities.

Reports of sexual abuse and other outcries were often not reported as mandated, and youths there told monitors that even after reporting allegations of abuse to the state “‘nothing changes, nothing is done,’ and ‘there is no point in calling the Hotline for that reason,’” the ruling states, after citing interviews with youths housed at Hector Garza.

"Clearly, nothing has changed in the five years since trial regarding children’s lack of confidence and trust in the reporting mechanisms for outcries of abuse and neglect in the foster care system," Jack wrote

 

I just find it fascinating that politically the GOP screams from the rooftops about protecting the unborn... but don't seem to care much at all about the children in their care after they are born?  You would think that if you cared about the unborn child you would really, really care about the actual children?  Wonder why the GOP always seems to fight to NOT take care of the children, and instead just say "well we tried...leave us alone."

 

[CooterBrown 17913]

It’s not about abortion. It’s about keeping those single issue voters under their tent. They don’t give a shit about kids.

[wildcat09 29257]

Isn’t the answer obvious? The GOP loves abuse of any kind.

[Celery Man 20886]

Because they don’t actually have any values at all

[hpslugga 4044]

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

I moved to Kingsville from Durango, Colorado, when I was just starting 3rd grade.

My first impression of South Texas? The evening news was dominated that year by stories of Lester Roloff's floating "Homes for Wayward Boys" where he had set up his foster care facilities off-shore so that he could get away with beatings and with starvation diets to discipline his young charges, presumably so they could find the Lord. And the fucking right wing fundamentalist wackos in Corpus Christi STILL think the state was wrong to shut his demonic child-abusing ass down.

Texas conservatives are fucked up in the extreme when it comes to child care. Seriously. Demented, warped, twisted, and fucked up. No other way to put it.

[horn4life 3755]

The thing that it is also important to know is that we as Taxpayers PAY for this abuse.  Now let me be clear her before I go forward.  There are a lot of good people that do love fostering kids.  For some it's a business, or for some even worse an access portal to abuse children.  I have considered fostering a child, though my wife and kids think I am nuts.  I would never have done it when my daughters were young, that much I will certainly admit.

Here is a link to a chart of the 2019 reimbursement rates.  Residential Child Care Contract rates TeXAS  So for the now shuttered home that housed 100 kids they were making $45,000 a day.  If they got the $45.19 reimbursement rate for the 100 residents in their care.

The problem with fostering kids is these kids were for the most part unwanted to begin with.  This does not allow the state to discard it's responsibility for adequate supervision of the children in their charge.  When it comes to Abortion, I don't like it.  But the number of women who hav a man holding their hand saying "please do not do it!" is so minuscule it's not worth mentioning.  I would actually outlaw abortion.  But for men, you get two strikes on unwanted and unsupported kids,  One for each ball, as a ball is removed for every unwanted and unsupported child.  Abortion would be nearly eliminated in a matter of months and condom sales would skyrocket overnight.  With women and not men bearing the burden of childhood, and having daughters I know abortion should be legal as the men do not carry the burden.

But taking care of the kids in our collective charge is quite frankly more important than adding to the number we re not taking care of.  Why doesn't the State of Texas look for actual solutions, rather than defend their lack of action on this issue for years, upon years.  ALSO the Dems were not a lot better years ago, but they were not advocating the growth of foster children population as do GOP policies.

[Nivek 16860]

Haha, you think they give one shit about finances? They only care when they are out of office. That’s it.

[RPM 26229]

48 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

 

Nailed it.

[Nivek 16860]

Outlawing abortion is a fucking horrible idea. As is forced sterilization.

The answer to the problem is EDUCATION. Its not quick, it is not easy, it doesn’t create a dopamine hit like when we ponder some imaginary person getting sterilized. It is the only responsible solution, one that doesn’t strip domain of an individual’s right to their own governance.

It is expensive upfront and it pays off with dividends. But our short term thinking and shitty logic, brought on by our political assault on education has worked to undermine this.

They encourage you to chase your tail.

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

32 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Here is a link to a chart of the 2019 reimbursement rates.  Residential Child Care Contract rates TeXAS  So for the now shuttered home that housed 100 kids they were making $45,000 a day.  If they got the $45.19 reimbursement rate for the 100 residents in their care.

[lemonlime 5503]

Because it's not about abortion.  It's about controlling and punishing women without economic means.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

I don't disagree with your basic take.

I think the fundamental policy that the GOP employs here is being cheap.  That is, not spending on social services.

The other policy might be that it's gubmint and I'm not 100% sure you can just spend your way out of this problem.

[RomaVicta 29793]

Those foster kids step out of a Charles Dickens novel. In Bleak House, there's a homeless boy always told to move along by the cops or anybody who doesnt' want him around. When the kindness of one person ends with that person's death, the boy is rousted from place to place until he ends up in the countryside. Good souls try to help, but it's too late. He dies mumbling, "move along, move along."

Cruelty is our brand. Brisket nailed it even though it seemed like apt hyperbole at the time.

I think this shit is linked to the "get tough" bullshit of the Reagan years. That approach stems from (to my mystification) the people of the most powerful nation in the world displaying the traits of an insecure adolescent boy always worried about not appearing manly and tough.

It then plays out vicariously through tanks rolling across borders, longer jail sentences for small crimes, police and border patrol brutality, and a staunch position of "fuck them." 

All of this unfolds in the shadow of the crucified Jesus while we claim we're the envy of the world. 

We have every reason to be restrained, tolerant, and even giving. We too often choose the fist instead of the open hand. The strong can do both. And should.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by RomaVicta

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Anti-abortion has now twisted itself to mean pro-birth, not pro-life. Once birth occurs, their passionate concern ends for the single issue voter.  The rest may care some but not passionately.  It is also tied up in misogynistic cultural attitudes that turn rough shod over the vulnerable and least resourceful women. 

[pyrohornIII 4809]

23 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Outlawing abortion is a fucking horrible idea. As is forced sterilization.

The answer to the problem is EDUCATION. Its not quick, it is not easy, it doesn’t create a dopamine hit like when we ponder some imaginary person getting sterilized. It is the only responsible solution, one that doesn’t strip domain of an individual’s right to their own governance.

It is expensive upfront and it pays off with dividends. But our short term thinking and shitty logic, brought on by our political assault on education has worked to undermine this.

They encourage you to chase your tail.

I'll second this, but also add the education needs to go into 3 areas:

1) Relationships,

2) Sex, and

3) Parenting.

We are absolutely horrible at this and have been for generations.  That leads to sexually repressed and frustrated people who instead concentrate on gathering wealth, then in turn use that wealth to push and support legislation that punishes those who actually engage in sex.   They support the churches that rail against the majority of forms of sex beyond standard M/F coitus, missionary of course.

And the churches make big bucks doing that from both ends, taking money from those who support said oppression, and taking money from those who feel guilt and shame in the eyes of "God" for their (or someone in their family's)  transgressions against these trumped up moral standards.   Our country is littered with huge houses that guilt built.  

 

After the 60s and the age of free love, up until Roe V Wade, we saw the country moving towards this, sex education and open discussions about sexuality, relationships, etc.    But since then we've seen a big backpedal on it.    

I know it would be difficult to come to a consensus on what needed to be taught and how, but until we recognize it and speak up, then the churches and all those who profit off this continued silence will just keep raking it in and the situation will grow worse.  

 

 

[RomaVicta 29793]

Oh, I didn't answer Horn4Life's question. 

Because they're fucking evil and their opposition is weak. The TV news is dull-minded and lazy and hostile to news. The electorate is woefully stupid and emotional.

Hail Potter.

We look at George Bailey and see who we want to be. We look at Potter and see who we are. (Apologies to Oliver Stone, Nixon)

This shot from the movie is the world view of the film. The little guy rarely wins. This is one of the great shot compositions in American film. Some people avoid this movie because they think it's a total feel good story. No. It's dark with frustration and futility. George must settle at every turn and learn to live with it. I've always believed the title was ironic.

For further unsolicited literary examination, please subscribe to my newsletter: FUPM.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Billy Holiday sang a song about unwanted children that hits the feels:

Them that's got shall have
Them that's not shall lose
So the Bible said and it still is news

Mama may have, Papa may have
But God bless the child that's got his own, that's got his own

Yes, the strong get smart
While the weak ones fade
Empty pockets don't ever make the grade

Mama may have, Papa may have
But God bless the child that's got his own, that's got his own

Money, you've got lots of friends
They're crowding around the door
But when you're gone and spending ends
They don't come no more
Rich relations give crusts of bread and such
You can help yourself, but don't take too much

Mama may have, Papa may have
But God bless the child that's got his own, that's got his own

Mama may have, Papa may have
But God bless the child that's got his own, that's got his own

He just don't worry 'bout nothing, 'cause he's got his own

[Brisketexan 104628]

5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Those foster kids step out of a Charles Dickens novel. In Bleak House, there's a homeless boy always told to move along by the cops or anybody who doesnt' want him around. When the kindness of one person ends with that person's death, the boy is rousted from place to place until he ends up in the countryside. Good souls try to help, but it's too late. He dies mumbling, "move along, move along."

Cruelty is our brand. Brisket nailed it even though it seemed like apt hyperbole at the time.

I think this shit is linked to the "get tough" bullshit of the Reagan years. That approach stems from (to my mystification) the people of the most powerful nation in the world displaying the traits of an insecure adolescent boy always worried about not appearing manly and tough.

It then plays out vicariously through tanks rolling across borders, longer jail sentences for small crimes, police and border patrol brutality, and a staunch position of "fuck them." 

All of this unfolds in the shadow of the crucified Jesus while we claim we're the envy of the world. 

We have every reason to be restrained, tolerant, and even giving. We too often choose the fist instead of the open hand. The strong can do both. And should.

 

Let me summarize your post with this piece:

https://eand.co/are-americans-psychopaths-8dee379329f7

Quote

Neither side in America wants to give everyone much of anything. The question which dominates American politics is: how much should we deny people? An extreme amount, or a less extreme amount? How much do we let people suffer intense harm and a stunted life — a massive amount, or a slightly less massive amount.

That is how the entire rest of the world sees it, make no mistake. Every single one of my friends from every corner of the globe thinks this, often in literal terms. They are baffled by America — not just the Trumpists, but also all those “educated” Americans who back exactly the same basic political, economic, and philosophical positions — everyone doesn’t deserve dignity, a decent life, made of basics which are free and abundant for all, because some people are liabilities, and we can’t “afford” those, even though we’re massively rich and powerful. It’s as ugly as it sounds — and it’s every bit as painfully stupid, too.

Americans on both sides are far, far closer to each other than they are to the rest of the rich world when it comes to social, political, and cultural attitudes and preferences. In Canada and Europe, for example, the sentiment above, the basic philosophical position which both sides in America share — nobody in society has inalienable and intrinsic worth, therefore nobody deserves anything for free, which is how Americans on both sides end up voting against public healthcare, retirement, education, childcare, and so forth — is seen as repugnant as it is baffling as it is mindless, thoughtless, immoral, disgraceful, and foolish.

There are indeed Americans who don’t think that. But they are a tiny minority. 

.......

How callous are Americans? They let their kids be shot in school — massacred, perhaps, is a better word — because they think carrying guns to Starbucks is a human right. They make each other beg strangers for pennies online for basic medicine, like insulin, because healthcare isn’t a human right. They put their own kids into “lunch debt,” which becomes “student debt,” which becomes “medical debt.” (As a result, the average American is now impoverished, dying in debt s/he can never repay, and that is how you get to Trumpism, because such people grow frustrated and hopeless, and then erupt in rage, as social bonds break, and old hatreds ignite all over again.) They exploit each other, working “jobs” which basically amount to being billionaire’s henchmen, demanding that their neighbors and colleagues pay their “debts” — which they can’t — or else. They dehumanize each other in every way imaginable, building a culture where pretending to have a perfect life on Instagram is showered with fame. They treat each other like dirt — and then go to weird mega-churches on Sunday, and pretend they’re fine and good and moral people.

I am god.

And fuck you.

That is the modern American ethos.  The individual is god.  The community and any sense of common good is not just secondary, it is the enemy.  After all, every tax dollar I pay to educate someone, ensure a basic social safety net, is a dollar that I no longer have.  And that is the only sin that American society acknowledges -- the sin of costing me, the individual, anything.  In terms of time, money, or even give-a-shit, the only acceptable outcome is a social order that gives ZERO of any of those things.

We are fucking psychopaths.  And yes, go to any other western democracy, and that's exactly what they think of us.  And they are right.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

45.19x100=4519

[hayden_horn 11360]

19 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Because it's not about abortion.  It's about controlling and punishing women without economic means.

this is more true than i realized when i was younger. i was raised with the bootstrap values of the reagan administration. work hard and good things are in store, etc. and i was raised in a household where those values were realized. i had an old dad, so my mom broke some glass ceilings to provide for us. and she was truly successful, so i grew up in a slightly upper middle class household where "welfare" was a bad word. i mean, my mom grew up poor, as did my dad, but they both succeeded, so if you hadn't succeeded, there was something wrong with you. we weren't rich, mind you, but i never wanted for a meal.

i remember doing some project in middle school about how abortion leads to welfare and how that was bad for the economy. it was crazy how activist our teachers were back in those days, and how i've only just realized it. 

i've come to realize that this entire issue is about poor women and basic slut shaming.

2 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

Anti-abortion has now twisted itself to mean pro-birth, not pro-life. Once birth occurs, their passionate concern ends for the single issue voter.  The rest may care some but not passionately.  It is also tied up in misogynistic cultural attitudes that turn rough shod over the vulnerable and least resourceful women. 

it's not even pro-birth. at least catholics get it right. they want the kid born and then cared for. modern evangelicals don't want any of that. honestly, they don't really even care that the kid is born as long as the slut is shamed. it isn't about family planning at all. it is just about the sin. there is very little grace in the evangelical republican party, but there is an abundance of judgment. you got a baby out of wedlock? fuck you, slut. should've kept your legs closed. it's never a man's fault, it's all about the slut. that's the full calculus.

[RomaVicta 29793]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Let me summarize your post with this piece:

https://eand.co/are-americans-psychopaths-8dee379329f7

I am god.

And fuck you.

That is the modern American ethos.  The individual is god.  The community and any sense of common good is not just secondary, it is the enemy.  After all, every tax dollar I pay to educate someone, ensure a basic social safety net, is a dollar that I no longer have.  And that is the only sin that American society acknowledges -- the sin of costing me, the individual, anything.  In terms of time, money, or even give-a-shit, the only acceptable outcome is a social order that gives ZERO of any of those things.

We are fucking psychopaths.  And yes, go to any other western democracy, and that's exactly what they think of us.  And they are right.

Excellent.

We also have advertising that has gone from creating a "you need this product" approach to a "you deserve this product" approach. I've noticed this recently. The vendors are not addressing a thrifty, discerning market; they pandering to one that feels entitled. I deserve this and you don't.

It's a shame that this thread is heading into the abortion vortex. The main question is higher level on the order of the article you post. Or maybe it's all just a waste of time as the herd thunders towards the brink of the Hubris Abyss. 

"Hey, I bet the world wishes they were flying like we are!"

"We're falling, you idiot!"

"Why do you hate America?"

[conVINCEd 21468]

Telling a woman she can’t have an abortion is free.  Taking care of kids is expensive.

[Brisketexan 104628]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it's not even pro-birth. at least catholics get it right. they want the kid born and then cared for. modern evangelicals don't want any of that. honestly, they don't really even care that the kid is born as long as the slut is shamed. it isn't about family planning at all. it is just about the sin. there is very little grace in the evangelical republican party, but there is an abundance of judgment. you got a baby out of wedlock? fuck you, slut. should've kept your legs closed. it's never a man's fault, it's all about the slut. that's the full calculus.

And definitely this.  Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of bullshit hardcore Catholic dogma and people on this who go full-on fundagelical, and are cruel and indifferent.  But by and large....the Catholic church gets "pro-life" more right than anyone else.  I've seen them support young, unwed pregnant catholic high school girls through pregnancy and adoption (instead of shaming/expelling).  The opposition to abortion AND the death penalty is logically consistent.  And much of church leadership (not all - not even close, but many) are truly compassionate and supportive of both mothers with unwanted pregnancies, and finding a safe and secure life for the child going forward.

The American anti-abortion movement as a political creature has almost none of that.  It is about cruelty, shaming, power, and control, using the "but we love life!" yell as a moral shield.  It's a bullshit shield.  It is, in fact, a lie.

[Brisketexan 104628]

8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

"Hey, I bet the world wishes they were flying like we are!"

"We're falling, you idiot!"

"Why do you hate America?"

I....am stealing the FUCK out of this.  Fantastic.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

31 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

After the 60s and the age of free love, up until Roe V Wade, we saw the country moving towards this, sex education and open discussions about sexuality, relationships, etc.    But since then we've seen a big backpedal on it.    

 

While more openness about sexuality is a good thing, the "free love" of the 60s was less benign than this.  The overall ethos of the 60s led as much to "fuck you, i'm getting mine" as it did to anything else.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While more openness about sexuality is a good thing, the "free love" of the 60s was less benign than this.  The overall ethos of the 60s led as much to "fuck you, i'm getting mine" as it did to anything else.

I typically take a child-centered view towards any movement. Is it good for children? If so, yay, if not, fuck off.

The "free love" movement was decidedly not good for children. Pretty much any movement that does not favor monogamy as a way of life is not good for children. Married gay parents? Great! Provided they are interested in forming monogamous, loving, caring environments for children.

Of course, as it turns out, the gay couples I know are pretty boring (which is why I know them), and therefore are uniquely suited to being good parents. I'm sure there are plenty of gay people who are as obnoxiously awful and never-should-be-parents as some of the straight people I know whose unfaithfulness as spouses has rendered them little better than shit-sandwiches in my eyes.

I find it remarkable, really, that one of the worst human beings who has ever lived on this score was elected President -- but hell, Trump's hardly unique on that score. Ask Jane Wyman.

[UDontKnow 10439]

It's because Republicans chose to get in bed with the evangelicals who continue to preach a version Christianity which is based on antebellum, Southern white supremacy.

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/5/18059454/trump-white-evangelicals-christian-nationalism-john-fea

If Republicans weren't interested in being grifters at the expense of society, they would subsidize the cost of any and every form of birth control in order to take unwanted pregnancies down to almost nil. 

[Nivek 16860]

49 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Oh, I didn't answer Horn4Life's question. 

Because they're fucking evil and their opposition is weak. The TV news is dull-minded and lazy and hostile to news. The electorate is woefully stupid and emotional.

Hail Potter.

We look at George Bailey and see who we want to be. We look at Potter and see who we are. (Apologies to Oliver Stone, Nixon)

This shot from the movie is the world view of the film. The little guy rarely wins. This is one of the great shot compositions in American film. Some people avoid this movie because they think it's a total feel good story. No. It's dark with frustration and futility. George must settle at every turn and learn to live with it. I've always believed the title was ironic.

For further unsolicited literary examination, please subscribe to my newsletter: FUPM.

Again, we didn't wake up and suddenly become morons.  The eroding of education has been a longstanding policy of a certain political party and their opposition bought into the 'get tough with teachers' mantra.   We are distracted, our work takes up more of our time, we have double income parents and need schools and daycare to take care of our kids, we lack real social security which necessitates us to grab more for ourselves in the short order, we are tired, and our food is shit.   We didn't suddenly become idiots.  We cannot care because we are fucking tired.  Oh and the rising price of home ownership, kids college, and our relatively shrinking wages is making it more difficult for us to want to extend a hand. 

Our sexual libertine punctuated events are only part of the pendulum that we react to.  Then we react to that reaction.   

 

 

[pyrohornIII 4809]

48 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Oh, I didn't answer Horn4Life's question. 

Because they're fucking evil and their opposition is weak. The TV news is dull-minded and lazy and hostile to news. The electorate is woefully stupid and emotional.

Hail Potter.

We look at George Bailey and see who we want to be. We look at Potter and see who we are. (Apologies to Oliver Stone, Nixon)

This shot from the movie is the world view of the film. The little guy rarely wins. This is one of the great shot compositions in American film. Some people avoid this movie because they think it's a total feel good story. No. It's dark with frustration and futility. George must settle at every turn and learn to live with it. I've always believed the title was ironic.

For further unsolicited literary examination, please subscribe to my newsletter: FUPM.

Recently I learned this movie was never intended as a Christmas classic, and in fact released more as the darker movie you see in it.   It didn't have much success upon release.  However at some point the studio dropped the fees to rebroadcast it (can't remember why) and TV stations around the country started picking it up as a Christmas movie they could broadcast for free.   The rest is history.   Credit TCM.

45 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Let me summarize your post with this piece:

https://eand.co/are-americans-psychopaths-8dee379329f7

I am god.

And fuck you.

That is the modern American ethos.  The individual is god.  The community and any sense of common good is not just secondary, it is the enemy.  After all, every tax dollar I pay to educate someone, ensure a basic social safety net, is a dollar that I no longer have.  And that is the only sin that American society acknowledges -- the sin of costing me, the individual, anything.  In terms of time, money, or even give-a-shit, the only acceptable outcome is a social order that gives ZERO of any of those things.

We are fucking psychopaths.  And yes, go to any other western democracy, and that's exactly what they think of us.  And they are right.

There's a one act play titled "What the Constitution Means to Me."  If you haven't watched it, you should.  Amazon is where i found it.   

I learned from that that our Constitution is filled with "negative" rights, while other countries have more modern "positive" rights constitutions. 

Negative rights are what the country (or other's) can't do to you.

Positive rights are what the country will do for you. 

I never thought about that distinction until that program.  And that distinction is at the heart of what you are saying, it's been around since our inception.  "Country, don't stand in the way of making what I have, and certainly don't take what I made for anything that would benefit others without my blessing." I guess somewhere around the Great Depression and Roosevelt, group think started changing for the masses.

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While more openness about sexuality is a good thing, the "free love" of the 60s was less benign than this.  The overall ethos of the 60s led as much to "fuck you, i'm getting mine" as it did to anything else.

I agree that the "free love" movement was not really all that great and in fact probably gave rise to the most self serving generation ever.  So that was a bad reference for a starting point.  

But something happened during that time that brought a big change in what we were talking about.  Hefner and his magazine, more nudity and sexual expression in movies.  Larry Flynt, Debbie Does Dallas, recreational drug use and all that became more acceptable somehow.  It started to bring the nation out of the sterile repressed Victorian mindset. 

It all feel in lock step with the Viet Nam protests and civil rights rioting.  

I am not saying it was all good for adults or kids.  But most of it was, and it was caused us to be more progressive, to seek better ways to be humans, to treat others.    And something in all that time triggered that outing of all these issues so we could face and deal with them.

We need more of that.  Whatever it was that we had going, it needs to be rekindled and the forces that continue to seek to repress it for whatever reason need to be beat back again.

 

[RomaVicta 29793]

4 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Again, we didn't wake up and suddenly become morons. 

Well, I am pointing to a movie made 70 years ago whose setting begins 100 years ago.

Your description of the present world is apt. But isn't debt and being beholden to the rich the Potter position in It's a Wonderful Life? People paying a house note or the criminally high student debts for college are, as you say, cruelly burdened by the times. But you must wonder about someone taking out a seven year loan on $50,000 truck that they drive to their office job. That does seem new to me. 

Interestingly, as far as open handedness goes, back in the 90s there was plenty of information about how the poor were giving a greater percentage of their gross earnings to charity than the classes above them. So many aspects to consider.

It's a complex and multi-rooted shitfest we've got into.

At least we can enjoy intelligent discussion until the whole smacks to the ground. I hope your holidays are happy ones. 

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

But isn't debt and being beholden to the rich the Potter position in It's a Wonderful Life? People paying a house note or the criminally high student debts for college are, as you say, cruelly burdened by the times. But you must wonder about someone taking out a seven year loan on $50,000 truck that they drive to their office job. That does seem new to me.

2020 was a good year for my family.

We moved into our 100% bought-and-paid-for farmhouse using our bought-and-paid-for SUV pulling a bought-and-paid-for trailer. Not one fucking penny owed to the criminally parasitic banks or their criminally parasitic political servants. And lower property taxes than we were paying in College Fucking Station, to boot.

But most folk aren't in that boat. I advise everyone who can find an escape hatch from the usury economy to take it, post-haste. Every penny you pay in interest is another penny paid to your own hangman.

[RomaVicta 29793]

8 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

However at some point the studio dropped the fees to rebroadcast it (can't remember why)

It wasn't the studio. The belief was that the movie had slipped into public domain. I recall stations running it all day in the 90s. That's when I made myself watch what I thought I wouldn't like but came away somewhat awed.

"What are you but a frustrated, warped young man?" Potter spits back at Bailey when George says that of Potter. George is driven to the breaking point. How often will an angel show up to make you see differently?

I was a long time in realizing that The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is soaking in irony throughout. Even the title proclaims its ironic and cynical view of history, but I didn't get it until like a fifth viewing on TV. I had a "holy shit!" moment when Woody Strode is praising the principles of a country where he had likely been a slave and was considered less than a white man even in that moment. How could I have missed that?

Back to It's A Wonderful Life, I was saddened when it was discovered that the movie was not actually in the public domain and it couldn't run all the time during the holidays. In a very Potteresque move, NBC acquired the rights and made a big deal out of broadcasting it a single time on Saturday Night with fucking Garth Brooks hosting and a trillion commercials to stretch it out over about 3 hours. "It will be your only chance to see it this year!" "Yea? Fuck you, NBC."

[RomaVicta 29793]

5 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

2020 was a good year for my family.

We moved into our 100% bought-and-paid-for farmhouse using our bought-and-paid-for SUV pulling a bought-and-paid-for trailer. Not one fucking penny owed to the criminally parasitic banks or their criminally parasitic political servants. And lower property taxes than we were paying in College Fucking Station, to boot.

But most folk aren't in that boat. I advise everyone who can find an escape hatch from the usury economy to take it, post-haste. Every penny you pay in interest is another penny paid to your own hangman.

Congratulations. Sincerely.

I don't have much debt, but I don't own a house. I spent the massive part of my life single and mobile. I'm exceedingly poor at holding onto money, though. I have a friend who was alway thrifty and not ungenerous. He worked his life out sort of like you. It makes me happy to see it.

[RPM 26229]

48 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

The "free love" movement was decidedly not good for children. Pretty much any movement that does not favor monogamy as a way of life is not good for children.

Have you any idea how many babies were mistaken for Thanksgiving turkeys?

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

21 minutes ago, RPM said:

Have you any idea how many babies were mistaken for Thanksgiving turkeys?

I've always observed that even though your own children are typically kinda cute, other people's babies are the ugliest damned things anybody anywhere has ever seen.

[RPM 26229]

Just now, Walden Ponderer said:

I've always observed that even though your own children are typically kinda cute, other people's babies are the ugliest damned things anybody anywhere has ever seen.

Unless they are blek according to my Granny. She came to Texas in a covered wagon.

[horn4life 3755]

Sorry about the 10 fold math error... I must still have a little Republican in me!

[RDCanecutter 26281]

3 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

2020 was a good year for my family.

We moved into our 100% bought-and-paid-for farmhouse using our bought-and-paid-for SUV pulling a bought-and-paid-for trailer. Not one fucking penny owed to the criminally parasitic banks or their criminally parasitic political servants. And lower property taxes than we were paying in College Fucking Station, to boot.

But most folk aren't in that boat. I advise everyone who can find an escape hatch from the usury economy to take it, post-haste. Every penny you pay in interest is another penny paid to your own hangman.

I say that any method that gets a person out of College Station, be it debt-free or debt-burdened, is superior to any scheme that has one staying in College Station.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

Our Republican run state is awful but honestly— show me a significant state or community that does CPS/foster care correctly. It is always criminally underfunded and it is always a laboratory for the worst kind of social experimentation— the kind on people who can’t say no and who can’t even really advocate for and explain what’s wrong.

This is just who we are, not as a country but as people. In pretty much every society, children hold the shit end of the stick.

[cam4mav 770]

7 hours ago, hpslugga said:

 

Complete hypocrisy of the Conservative Christian.

Protect the right to life of every single possible pregnancy.

Once born, on your own, every man for themselves, capitalism above all, preserve the current power structure and inequalities. sucks to suck if you are born into less than perfect situations, not my problem figure it out yourself sucker. 

 

if only these people ever actually stopped to think if Jesus would be more likely to be a liberal or a conservative. fucking idiots

 

[cam4mav 770]

https://i.redd.it/v2o4wnuy2t661.jpg



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[Willfully Horn 7915]

10 hours ago, lemonlime said:

Because it's not about abortion.  It's about controlling and punishing women without economic means.

This is correct.

Numbers 5:16-28