Tell me about Nebraska

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

Texas has a lot of high school talent.  Texas has a lot of colleges recruiting that high school.  Having a "TX" after the high school does not make the player better. 

Nebraska did not build to elite status on Texas talent.  Turner Gil was the best player out of Texas that I can recall.  Going off the top of my head: Frazier - Florida, Rozier - New Jersey; Lawrence Phillips - California;  Ahman Green, Scott Frost, Eric Crouch - Nebraska.  You want to talk about the "success" of the Pelini era?  Ok.  Ameer Abdullah - Georgia, Roy Helu - Cal, Suh - Oregon, T-mart- Cal.   

You guys start with the premise that Nebraska must recruit Texas to be successful.  The premise is wrong.  Yes, Pelini had an enhanced focus on Texas.  But, he was a bad recruiter.  He did not bring in top talent.  Occasionally, he'd land a guy like T. Martinez, who flashed brilliance at times, but then at other times you'd realize why very few programs recruited his as QB .  Callahan, whose classes were ranked higher than Pelini and brought in many of the higher ranked recruits that staffed Pelini's early rosters, did not focus on Texas.  Osborne, whose classes put any other Nebraska coach to shame, did not focus on Texas.  But Osborne had two things going for him in recruiting: he was consistently successful and he was recruiting for an atypical offense, which got him access to the highest rated "dual threat" QBs.  That has nothing to do with the Big 12 or the Big 10.    

Wrong.  /Trump gif

The premise is that Nebraska’s best chance of regaining elite program status would be to develop a pipeline to a state with lots of talent, and Texas would be their best opportunity. That opportunity was not seized when they were in the Big XII and was lost when they left the Big XII. 

[Landomatic 3813]

20 hours ago, Tuco said:

Bullshit.  Our ability to recover has nothing to do with the Big 12 or the Big 10.  

I love that folks on this board can simultaneously believe that :1) Texas was the cause of our decline from competitiveness and 2) Leaving a conference that has Texas is the cause for continuing our current status.  

Both can't be true.  As it turns out, neither is. 

You can keep telling yourself that all you want, but you’ll still be wrong.  It’s a combination of a lot of factors.  Someone else on this thread described it as “regionalized” which is probably a great term for it.

Here’s what it means.  The general geography of Nebraska’s current conference (let’s call it the rust belt) probably has the heaviest concentration of quality recruits in Ohio.  For ease, let’s say there are 10 of them (not a real number, just an example).  Okay, of those 10 great recruits in and around Ohio, were do they commit?  Probably something like this...

Ohio State - 3

Michigan - 2

Penn State - 1

Wisconsin - 1

Notre Dame - 1

Out of area (SEC, Big 12, Pac, etc) - 2

Guess who’s not included in that list?  Nebraska.  Why?  Because they’ve never had any relevance in that area.  There are no kids who’s parents grew up Nebraska fans.  There are no kids who’s parents grew up cheering against Nebraska.  There are no kids who’s grandparents grew up with huge respect and memories about how great Nebraska once was.  There are no kids who care at all about Nebraska in the “rust belt” and there is zero brand awareness coming from anywhere in the region other than the state of Nebraska.  And to top that off, the number of great recruits in the rust belt is relatively small.

Now, let’s do the same with Nebraska in the Big 12.  Their geographic footprint (let’s call it the Midwest) certainly has the heaviest concentration of quality recruits in Texas.  And for the sake of this argument, let’s say the number in and around Texas is 50.  Now, let’s break down where those 50 commit.  Probably something like this...

Texas - 10

OU - 10

aggy, Baylor, TCU - 3 each for a total of 9

All other Big 12 schools - 1 each for roughly 5

All other p5 conferences - 12

notre dame - 1

Nebraska - 3

Why?  Simple math and geography.  First, the total number of great recruits in the Big 12 footprint is much bigger so even if Nebraska got the scraps, there’s more than enough to go around.  Second, the Midwest is filled with parents and grandparents who were fans or had respect or cheered against Nebraska.  You know how many people from Nebraska migrate south?  Go visit Kansas City, Oklahoma City or even Dallas.  They’re all over the Midwest.  How many migrate East?  It’s a relatively small number.

Nebraska was the first and only Blue Chip school with huge brand recognition in the Big 12 after Texas and OU in a giant recruiting hotbed.  Pretty big fish in a really big pond.

Now, you’re just a has-been with almost no brand recognition piled in behind Ohio State and Michigan then several others with much better footholds in a relatively small recruiting geography.  Very small fish in a pretty small pond.

This isn’t some “Texas thinks Nebraska needs them” arrogance even if you want to think that.  It’s pretty basic math and geography. Like it or not, Dr Tom fucked you guys when he made that move and you’ll never be the same from it.  It was a huge and very short-sighted mistake.

[Thiefery 4995]

47 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

You can keep telling yourself that all you want, but you’ll still be wrong.  It’s a combination of a lot of factors.  Someone else on this thread described it as “regionalized” which is probably a great term for it.

Here’s what it means.  The general geography of Nebraska’s current conference (let’s call it the rust belt) probably has the heaviest concentration of quality recruits in Ohio.  For ease, let’s say there are 10 of them (not a real number, just an example).  Okay, of those 10 great recruits in and around Ohio, were do they commit?  Probably something like this...

Ohio State - 3

Michigan - 2

Penn State - 1

Wisconsin - 1

Notre Dame - 1

Out of area (SEC, Big 12, Pac, etc) - 2

Guess who’s not included in that list?  Nebraska.  Why?  Because they’ve never had any relevance in that area.  There are no kids who’s parents grew up Nebraska fans.  There are no kids who’s parents grew up cheering against Nebraska.  There are no kids who’s grandparents grew up with huge respect and memories about how great Nebraska once was.  There are no kids who care at all about Nebraska in the “rust belt” and there is zero brand awareness coming from anywhere in the region other than the state of Nebraska.  And to top that off, the number of great recruits in the rust belt is relatively small.

Now, let’s do the same with Nebraska in the Big 12.  Their geographic footprint (let’s call it the Midwest) certainly has the heaviest concentration of quality recruits in Texas.  And for the sake of this argument, let’s say the number in and around Texas is 50.  Now, let’s break down where those 50 commit.  Probably something like this...

Texas - 10

OU - 10

aggy, Baylor, TCU - 3 each for a total of 9

All other Big 12 schools - 1 each for roughly 5

All other p5 conferences - 12

notre dame - 1

Nebraska - 3

Why?  Simple math and geography.  First, the total number of great recruits in the Big 12 footprint is much bigger so even if Nebraska got the scraps, there’s more than enough to go around.  Second, the Midwest is filled with parents and grandparents who were fans or had respect or cheered against Nebraska.  You know how many people from Nebraska migrate south?  Go visit Kansas City, Oklahoma City or even Dallas.  They’re all over the Midwest.  How many migrate East?  It’s a relatively small number.

Nebraska was the first and only Blue Chip school with huge brand recognition in the Big 12 after Texas and OU in a giant recruiting hotbed.  Pretty big fish in a really big pond.

Now, you’re just a has-been with almost no brand recognition piled in behind Ohio State and Michigan then several others with much better footholds in a relatively small recruiting geography.  Very small fish in a pretty small pond.

This isn’t some “Texas thinks Nebraska needs them” arrogance even if you want to think that.  It’s pretty basic math and geography. Like it or not, Dr Tom fucked you guys when he made that move and you’ll never be the same from it.  It was a huge and very short-sighted mistake.

I just want to add that the Cali pipeline isn't as plentiful as it was 30 years ago either.

[Tuco 5076]

Not really figuring out the multiquote right now, so....

Quote

Wrong.  /Trump gif

The premise is that Nebraska’s best chance of regaining elite program status would be to develop a pipeline to a state with lots of talent, and Texas would be their best opportunity. That opportunity was not seized when they were in the Big XII and was lost when they left the Big XII. 

Are you saying that I am wrong that is your premise, or that the premise is wrong.  You basically repeat the premise in your statement.  And it's wrong.

Quote

You can keep telling yourself that all you want, but you’ll still be wrong.  It’s a combination of a lot of factors.  Someone else on this thread described it as “regionalized” which is probably a great term for it.  Blah, blah, blah...a bunch of other imaginary shit that you made up, called math, and pretending like it was compelling.

Current 2020 recruiting class: 1 Georgia, 5 Fla, 1 LA, 1 OK, 1 TX, 1 IA, 1 SD, 1 NE, 1 AL, 2 KS. 

2019 class: 2 OK, 3 AZ, 1 SC, 1 TX, 1 KY, 1 AL, 3 GA, 1 MN, 1 WA, 4 NE, 1 IA, 1 LA, 1 TN, 1 CO, 1 IL, 1 NJ

So, those actual facts, not shit you just made up to support your conclusion.  If there is any region heavily depicted there, it's SEC country. Doesn't matter.  We aren't getting "SEC talent", whatever the fuck that is.  If you want to believe our problem is that we aren't regionalized enough, okay, whatever.  But the claim that we have become regionalized is just idiotic.  The problem is simple: we aren't getting top 10 recruits.  That's probably because we aren't competing at a top 40 level.  It's really, really difficult to get top 10 level recruits when your team has been mediocre to bad over the last 10-15 years.  It helps if you're Texas and are centrally located to a strong high school system.  Nebraska isn't in that situation. Being in the Big 12 didn't change that fact.  It's not like we were hauling in top 10 talent from Texas, even when we had three national titles still visible in the rear view mirror.  Distance is distance.  There used to be the conference selling point of your family seeing you play on TV.  That's not there any more.  Conferences don't really matter that much any more.  Texas was never a central part to Nebraska success and there is no reason to believe it will be in the future.

You guys are welcome to check out other years by looking at Huskermax.com.  It's not like this is secret information.  You could actually vet your theories with reality.

Quote

I just want to add that the Cali pipeline isn't as plentiful as it was 30 years ago either.

I tend to agree.  Although Riley did pull some good players out of there, including sophomore-slumping Adrian Martinez.   

Edited October 15, 2019 by Tuco

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, Thiefery said:

I just want to add that the Cali pipeline isn't as plentiful as it was 30 years ago either.

That’s right and I think it’s probably all part of it.  It all builds on itself.  Some California exposure was picked up almost through osmosis with a big rivalry game with Colorado.  But even if that wasn’t the case, the being a household brand that was afforded to Nebraska through being a big swinging dick (maybe not the biggest, but one of the biggest) in the Big 12 and having roots throughout the Midwest allowed them to recruit other areas as well as within the Big 12 footprint.

[Landomatic 3813]

23 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Not really figuring out the multiquote right now, so....

Are you saying that I am wrong that is your premise, or that the premise is wrong.  You basically repeat the premise in your statement.  And it's wrong.

Current 2020 recruiting class: 1 Georgia, 5 Fla, 1 LA, 1 OK, 1 TX, 1 IA, 1 SD, 1 NE, 1 AL, 2 KS. 

2019 class: 2 OK, 3 AZ, 1 SC, 1 TX, 1 KY, 1 AL, 3 GA, 1 MN, 1 WA, 4 NE, 1 IA, 1 LA, 1 TN, 1 CO, 1 IL, 1 NJ

So, those actual facts, not shit you just made up to support your conclusion.  If there is any region heavily depicted there, it's SEC country. Doesn't matter.  We aren't getting "SEC talent", whatever the fuck that is.  If you want to believe our problem is that we aren't regionalized enough, okay, whatever.  But the claim that we have become regionalized is just idiotic.  The problem is simple: we aren't getting top 10 recruits.  That's probably because we aren't competing at a top 40 level.  It's really, really difficult to get top 10 level recruits when your team has been mediocre to bad over the last 10-15 years.  It helps if you're Texas and are centrally located to a strong high school system.  Nebraska isn't in that situation. Being in the Big 12 didn't change that fact.  It's not like we were hauling in top 10 talent from Texas, even when we had three national titles still visible in the rear view mirror.  Distance is distance.  There used to be the conference selling point of your family seeing you play on TV.  That's not there any more.  Conferences don't really matter that much any more.  Texas was never a central part to Nebraska success and there is no reason to believe it will be in the future.

You guys are welcome to check out other years by looking at Huskermax.com.  It's not like this is secret information.  You could actually vet your theories with reality.

I tend to agree.  Although Riley did pull some good players out of there, including sophomore-slumping Adrian Martinez.   

Ah, I see you’re just putting your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la la.  Here’s recruiting states blah blah blah.  It’s all about having brand awareness in a place that gives a fuck.  You had it in the Big 12.  You do not and likely never will in the B1G.  The rest of the country knows y’all fucked up when you went to the B1G and a ton of Nebraska fans now realize it from what I’ve seen.  Win or lose, you used to always have a seat at the big boy table.  Now you just lose and will always sit at the kiddie table.  In fact, without question, the team hit the hardest from leaving the Big 12 was Nebraska and it’s not even close.  But hey, if you want to refuse to believe that, go for it.  Enjoy your continued mediocrity.

And BTW, your recruiting “facts” do nothing but support my point.  You’re now having to go outside your conference footprint because there’s not enough talent to go around and especially not that give a fuck about Nebraska.  So now you have to go elsewhere for your 2-3 star talent.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Landomatic

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

28 minutes ago, Tuco said:

But the claim that we have become regionalized is just idiotic.  The problem is simple: we aren't getting top 10 recruits.  That's probably because we aren't competing at a top 40 level. 

You sound like you think these things are all just incidental facts instead of recognizing the really high levels of correlation. The "problem" doesn't exist independently of the fact that you're more of a regional program now. You aren't getting the recruits you need to compete, because you made yourselves into a little regional program by leaving a conference where you were seen as a tentpole in favor of being just another mediocre farm state pile-on in the Big 10 West. It's not a question of where you'll recruit-- that will always have to be national based on your state's population. It's a question of how well you'll recruit nationally and the answer there is "not as well as you did as one of 2 tentpole Big 8 or 3 tentpole Big 12 programs". 

You guys aren't and aren't going to be Wisconsin, because Wisconsin is geographically and culturally aligned with some large Midwestern metro areas, like Milwaukee and Chicago. The better examples of what your future holds, the more relevant comparisons, are Iowa and Minnesota. 

So, enjoy.

Edited October 15, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[Tuco 5076]

So, it's no longer about "regionalized" it's about brand awareness.  You should really make up stuff to support that theory. 

We have brand awareness across the country.  Whoopie.  Walmart has brand awareness.  Doesn't mean people prefer to shop there.  If Nebraska was good, that brand awareness would mean something.  Currently that brand is "team fighting for bowl eligibility."  That doesn't bring in top 10 talent, no matter which conference you are in. 

Nebraska's best chance of returning to great is to get good.  They can do that in the Big 12.  They can do that in the Big 10. It just doesn't matter.

 

[Tuco 5076]

2 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

You sound like you think these things are all just incidental facts instead of recognizing the really high levels of correlation. The "problem" doesn't exist independently of the fact that you're more of a regional program now.

If by regional, you mean currently recruiting fairly evenly across the nation, then you would be correct. If you are using the English language, then it's clearly false.

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

So, it's no longer about "regionalized" it's about brand awareness.  You should really make up stuff to support that theory. 

We have brand awareness across the country.  Whoopie. 

 

Who's talking about branding? Status and branding aren't axiomatically the same thing. You had a different status in the Big 12. That status facilitated better recruiting. 

You seem impatient with the discussion so I'll just concede that if Nebraska just wins more, they'll win more, and no one cares what conference anyone is in ever. If you guys go unbeaten and win five straight national titles, I grant that every characterization I have made of your school will be totally wrong.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Just now, Tuco said:

If by regional, you mean currently recruiting fairly evenly across the nation, then you would be correct. If you are using the English language, then it's clearly false.

 

You have missed the point and it has already been explained above.

[Carl Spackler 3479]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:41 AM, Cornfusion said:

Thanks for the offer, but we're good.

Your definition of "good" is strange.

[Carl Spackler 3479]

On 10/13/2019 at 6:01 PM, Cornfusion said:

...and yet you still keep driving past our house at 2 A.M. to see if anybody is parked in the driveway.  You guys need to concentrate on getting Texas A&M back and forget about the Huskers.  The Big 8  was always kind of a rebound thing after Arkansas anyhow.

 

The delusion is strong in this one.

[Here’s the deal 114]

23 minutes ago, Tuco said:

So, it's no longer about "regionalized" it's about brand awareness.  You should really make up stuff to support that theory. 

We have brand awareness across the country.  Whoopie.  Walmart has brand awareness.  Doesn't mean people prefer to shop there.  If Nebraska was good, that brand awareness would mean something.  Currently that brand is "team fighting for bowl eligibility."  That doesn't bring in top 10 talent, no matter which conference you are in. 

Nebraska's best chance of returning to great is to get good.  They can do that in the Big 12.  They can do that in the Big 10. It just doesn't matter.

 

This is the same logic that Aggie uses.  If we win, we’ll start getting the best recruits.  When we get the best recruits, we’ll win more.  They’ve been repeating this for the last 100 years.  All that’s true, but the problem is the best recruits will always pick another school that’s winning now and has better exposure, academics, campus life, and after football possibilities.  Just like Aggie, y’all are surrounded by schools that offer all those things.  Who knows if you would be doing better in the Big XII, but at least you were happy playing 100 year rivalries.  Tom Osborne’s hatred of all things Texas (dating back to eliminating partial qualifiers) caused your school to be where it is today.  One petty man!!

[Tuco 5076]

29 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Who's talking about branding? Status and branding aren't axiomatically the same thing.

 

Landomatic was talking about branding.  

Quote

You had a different status in the Big 12. That status facilitated better recruiting. 

Except for the pesky fact that being in the Big 12 didn't facilitate better recruiting. 

Osborne - not in the Big 12, recruited nationally, and got highly rated classes. 

Solich - in the Big 12, did have a focus on Texas, had poorly rated classes, which was a big part of his dismissal. 

Callahan - Big 12, focused on Cali, recruited well

Pelini - Big12/10 - Had some focus on Texas, recruited poorly

Riley - Big 10 - Focused on west coast, meh recruiting

Frost - Big 10 - recruiting nationally, jury is out, but first full class was pretty good

 

[Tuco 5076]

3 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

The delusion is strong in this one.

Uh huh.  The last several posts are explaining why Nebraska really needs Texas, 9 years later. 

Texas. It's over.  Move on.  We've been out of the conference for nine years.  We were only in it for 13 years.  I'll always root against you and I assume you'll always root against us.  Let's just be enemies. Ok. 

[Carl Spackler 3479]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

Uh huh.  The last several posts are explaining why Nebraska really needs Texas, 9 years later. 

Texas. It's over.  Move on.  We've been out of the conference for nine years.  We were only in it for 13 years.  I'll always root against you and I assume you'll always root against us.  Let's just be enemies. Ok. 

You're overreaching.  The posters on here are merely noting that Nebraska fucked up by going to the Big 10 and the reasons why.  Nobody actually wants Nebraska to return to the Big 12.  But for some strange reason, you and some of your fellow Cornhuskers misconstrue posts analyzing how Nebraska fucked up as some kind of groundswell of support for Nebraska to return.  Keep dreaming.  We just enjoy seeing Nebraska wallow in the dregs of mediocrity after it ran away.     

 

[Valmy77 13225]

24 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Uh huh.  The last several posts are explaining why Nebraska really needs Texas, 9 years later. 

Texas. It's over.  Move on.  We've been out of the conference for nine years.  We were only in it for 13 years.  I'll always root against you and I assume you'll always root against us.  Let's just be enemies. Ok. 

We don't want you back.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Yeah--- I gotta apologize for trying to talk college football. I didn't realize that just meant I was obsessed with Nebraska, but I am glad there was a Nebraska football fan posting on a Texas football message board was here to point out my obsession.

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

Landomatic was talking about branding.  

Except for the pesky fact that being in the Big 12 didn't facilitate better recruiting. 

Osborne - not in the Big 12, recruited nationally, and got highly rated classes. 

Solich - in the Big 12, did have a focus on Texas, had poorly rated classes, which was a big part of his dismissal. 

Callahan - Big 12, focused on Cali, recruited well

Pelini - Big12/10 - Had some focus on Texas, recruited poorly

Riley - Big 10 - Focused on west coast, meh recruiting

Frost - Big 10 - recruiting nationally, jury is out, but first full class was pretty good

 

Brand awareness.  You had a bigger footprint with more resources aware of your brand when you were in the Big 12 than you do now.  It’s hurting your program. 

But you’ve already shown you’re either too dumb to be able to recognize this simple concept that others find so easy to grasp or you’re too hung up on thinking this is some kind of ego position taken by Texas or both.

As I said before, enjoy your mediocrity.  Enjoy your seat at the table with Minnesota.  That’s as good as it will get for you.

[PilotsError 2287]

Spent an enjoyable hour on HuskerMax forums today while eating lunch.  For the most part they've been broken.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, Tuco said:

Except for the pesky fact that being in the Big 12 didn't facilitate better recruiting. 

I can tell you are skimming posts rather than reading them and responding. I said earlier upthread, your status as a tentpole program, which you were in both the Big 8 and Big 12, was valuable in recruiting. The tentpole programs in any conference recruit better than the lesser programs they're surrounded by.

That is born out by the fact that you had more talent during your time in the Big 8, and more talent early in your time in Big 12, than you've had since leaving the Big 12. I did not say being in the Big 12 was a cure-all for you, which is how you seem to be interpreting the correct statement that being a tentpole in the Big 12 was better for your recruiting than being a spare part in the Big 10 West. 

And you say you recruited better in the Big 8 than the Big 12. Gosh. I wonder what gigantic factor that Texas forced the Big 8 schools to eliminate might have influenced that. Your recruiting in the Big 8 will forever be your highwater mark (something else for you to look forward to). 

Edited October 15, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

13 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Spent an enjoyable hour on HuskerMax forums today while eating lunch.  For the most part they've been broken.

we're getting more fight here over semantics (albeit Calvinball style) than their football team has given in years

[Cornfusion 250]

Quote

There is no way.  None. That Nebraska makes that move had they had an even record against Texas.  Us owning them caused them to run away. 

You were (and will be always) one step below the Sooners when it comes to being THE rival for Nebraska in the Big XII.  History and rankings don't lie.

[utee94 15808]

17 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

You were (and will be always) one step below the Sooners when it comes to being THE rival for Nebraska in the Big XII.  History and rankings don't lie.

Well I should certainly hope so, since you had 100 years of history with the Sooners as a rival, and only played Texas 10 times in the B12.

 

But now I'll go ahead and let you in on a little secret-- you were not, and never will be, considered any kind of rival whatsoever by Texas fans. Not even one step below.  Just zero. Nada. Zilch.

 

However, I will say that I enjoyed having Nebraska in the same conference as Texas, and I guess unlike the majority of my Texas brethren here on this thread, I'd be happy to have Nebraska back.  It'll never happen for a multitude of reasons, but if it did, I'd looking forward to renewing the series with the Cornhuskers.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by utee94

[Cornfusion 250]

Quote

The posters on here are merely noting that Nebraska fucked up by going to the Big 10 and the reasons why.

The posters on here are merely noting that  Texas fans think that Nebraska fucked up by going to the Big 10 and the their reasons why.

FIFY.

Listen:  We are going to limp through this season with a freshman tight end at center, a tackle at guard, water boys at tackle, slow linebackers that over pursue, a walk on safety at kicker, and two injured quarterbacks.  Frost is going to let this year's dumpster fire burn out and save the redshirts,  and keep trying to recruit and rebuild.  That's the plan, Stan.

The Big XII should be happy you don't have Nebraska in its present state hurting your brand.  Nebraska wouldn't be any better or any worse anywhere else.  We had crappy ADs and crappy coaches.  Getting beat by Kansas State for less conference money isn't somehow better than getting beat by Minnesota for more conference money.

 

 

[utee94 15808]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I can tell you are skimming posts rather than reading them and responding. I said earlier upthread, your status as a tentpole program, which you were in both the Big 8 and Big 12, was valuable in recruiting. The tentpole programs in any conference recruit better than the lesser programs they're surrounded by.

That is born out by the fact that you had more talent during your time in the Big 8, and more talent early in your time in Big 12, than you've had since leaving the Big 12. I did not say being in the Big 12 was a cure-all for you, which is how you seem to be interpreting the correct statement that being a tentpole in the Big 12 was better for your recruiting than being a spare part in the Big 10 West. 

And you say you recruited better in the Big 8 than the Big 12. Gosh. I wonder what gigantic factor that Texas forced the Big 8 schools to eliminate might have influenced that. Your recruiting in the Big 8 will forever be your highwater mark (something else for you to look forward to). 

And the Big Ten had stricter rules on PQs and NQs even then.  It's not like they would have welcomed those practices with open arms even if they'd been interested in the Huskers two decades earlier.

[Cornfusion 250]

Quote

But now I'll go ahead and let you in on a little secret-- you were not, and never will be, considered any kind of rival whatsoever by Texas fans. Not even one step below.  Just zero. Nada. Zilch

It wasn't a secret.  When Nebraska realized they wasn't going to play Oklahoma every year, it was apparent that we weren't considered as anything but current residents of a soft landing place for SWC refugees.  Anyhow, you have what you wanted, we went out and got what we wanted, so no hard feelings.

I did root for the Longhorns against LSU...and if you ever play those pee-pee pinchers in College Station...

[Cornfusion 250]

Quote

We don't want you back.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Cornfusion

[Cornfusion 250]

I wouldn't trade the Big 10 or Scott Frost for anything I see in college football today.  I don't expect any of you to believe it or understand it, though.

You guys get the last word.

[utee94 15808]

8 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

It wasn't a secret.  When Nebraska realized they wasn't going to play Oklahoma every year, it was apparent that we weren't considered as anything but current residents of a soft landing place for SWC refugees.  Anyhow, you have what you wanted, we went out and got what we wanted, so no hard feelings.

I did root for the Longhorns against LSU...and if you ever play those pee-pee pinchers in College Station...

Don't blame Texas for that, take it up with your BFFs in Norman.  Plenty of them have said, over the years, that their administration was tired of getting its teeth kicked in by those mid 90s juggernaut Husker teams and didn't fight very hard to make it an annual game.  Other conferences have installed x-div rivals, the B12 could have done it too, if the Sooners and Huskers had wanted it enough to push for it.   

So go sell this line in Norman, it won't work here.

[BabaYaga 15289]

3 hours ago, Tuco said:

Osborne - not in the Big 12, recruited nationally, and got highly rated classes and benefited TREMENDOUSLY from partial qualifiers, prop 48 kids, & national exposure

Solich - in the Big 12, partial qualifiers no longer allowed (by an 11-1 vote), and this NU crutch went away along with increased exposure to other schools and scholie restrictions did have a focus on Texas, had poorly rated classes, which was a big part of his dismissal. 

Callahan - Big 12, focused on Cali, recruited well

Pelini - Big12/10 - Had some focus on Texas, recruited poorly

Riley - Big 10 - Focused on west coast, meh recruiting

Frost - Big 10 - recruiting nationally, jury is out, but first full class was pretty good

None of this other crap even matters now for a frigid, flyover state that lost a generational coach they were unable to replace.

FIFY

[Landomatic 3813]

56 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

The posters on here are merely noting that anyone with half a football brain can see that Nebraska fucked up by going to the Big 10 and are trying to help y’all understand why.

FIFY

This is not a Texas fan thing.  Lots of Nebraska fans I’ve talked to realize this.  Didn’t realize it was so hard for some of y’all to see/admit.

[Surlybastard 65]

I think Nebraska was going to slowly come down to the level of the Minnesota's, Iowa's and Iowa St's of the world regardless of what conference they were in. Numbers just aren't on their side. I think there's only a handful of coaches in the whole country that could even get them to the level of someone like Wisconsin who wins 9-10 games a year and wins their conference every so often.  Maybe they'd be slightly more relevant in the B12 but what had they done in the 6-7 years prior to leaving the B12 that made them relevant? One close loss in the B12 cg? Its just very hard to win in a state that produces almost no major fb talent and has nothing other than having won national titles in the 70's and 90's as a way to lure recruits from Texas, the southern states or California.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Surlybastard

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

3 hours ago, Cornfusion said:

When Nebraska realized they wasn't going to play Oklahoma every year

That was such bullshit. One of the biggest mistakes the Big 12 made. Maybe the biggest one. You have this hugely marketable traditional rivalry that people in fucking New York City will watch, and you can't protect it?

[Tuco 5076]

4 hours ago, Landomatic said:

FIFY

This is not a Texas fan thing.  Lots of Nebraska fans I’ve talked to realize this.  Didn’t realize it was so hard for some of y’all to see/admit.

Lots of Nebraska fans thought we would win the Big 10 this year and that Martinez would get an invite to New York.  Lots of Nebraska fans, like lots of Texas fans, are morons. 

Try supporting your position with actual facts instead of all these Husker fans you talk to. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12181]

I dunno if I'm still in the minority, but I think Frost will turn the corner. They'll compete, but they'll always be behind Wisconsin, PSU, and Ohio State, with an upset here or there. 9-3 or maybe 10-2 is their ceiling, but average about 7-8 wins. 

[mulletpelini 5210]

3 hours ago, Spider2YBanana said:

I dunno if I'm still in the minority, but I think Frost will turn the corner. They'll compete, but they'll always be behind Wisconsin, PSU, and Ohio State, with an upset here or there. 9-3 or maybe 10-2 is their ceiling, but average about 7-8 wins. 

This is probably true.  IF, and I mean IF it ever comes to be that there is a situation where the program returns to what it once was, it will only because the coach is allowed time to get it there.  Not 5 years, not 10 years, maybe 15 years of good recruiting after good recruiting years coinciding with consistent coaching.....which I'm not even sure is possible anymore as coaches changes jobs like underwear.

It will always be harder to win in the B1G because the competition is harder/better than the B12.  Kirby Smart is getting elite class after elite class of players and is still struggling to beat teams that they should beat.  You not only have to know how to get players that are good enough, you better know how to develop them AND know how to execute a game plan to damn near perfection to beat the guys that are at the top of the heap right now.  I don't think HCSF is capable of that right now.  I don't know if he ever will be.  There is a better chance that at some point 10-15 years from now he will be closer to it than he is now.   

The one area that I do not understand that Nebraska quit recruiting in was east coast.  They would generally pull a couple kids out of there annually, but it seems like a long time since that's happened.  If you can get a kid from Cali, you should be able to get a kid from the east.

TLDR patience is a virtual

[Landomatic 3813]

9 hours ago, Tuco said:

Lots of Nebraska fans thought we would win the Big 10 this year and that Martinez would get an invite to New York.  Lots of Nebraska fans, like lots of Texas fans, are morons. 

Try supporting your position with actual facts instead of all these Husker fans you talk to. 

I already did that.  You just didn't want to hear it.  Basic math and geography seem to not fit your narrative therefor, you just choose to dismiss it.  And apparently common sense falls into that same category.

Here's more for you if it helps.  Although, from what I've seen so far, I assume you'll just figure out more mental gymnastics to dismiss this too.  But that's okay, I enjoy football stats and winning arguments on the internet.

Nebraska - First 8 Years in the B1G vs. Last 8 Years in the Big 12 (seems like a very logical data pool)

Winning Percentage

    Big 12 - 64%

    B1G - 58%

Division Championships

    Big 12 - 4

    B1G - 1

Average Final Division Standing

    Big 12 - 2.25

    B1G - 1 - 3.38

Number of Years Ranked in the Final Top 25

    Big 12 - 4

    B1G - 2

Average Final Ranking when Ranked

    Big 12 - 19.25

    B1G - 24.5

Bowl Wins

    Big 12 - 4

    B1G - 2

By literally every single measurable category, Nebraska has been worse in the B1G than they were in the Big 12.  Over an EIGHT year span for each.  That's not "you're just cherry picking stats."  That's not "just a few down years."  That's not "we were mediocre in the Big 12 and we're mediocre now."  That is "we've gotten considerably worse since we've moved."

And when you take it one step further and look at all of it from a year-by-year perspective, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it's been a very steady decline since moving to the B1G.  That is to say, Nebraska's best years in the B1G were the fist few, by far (and by the looks of things, adding this year will only add to that).  Meanwhile, results were pretty sporadic throughout their last 8 years in the Big 12...meaning, there was no real common explanation for years they sucked vs years they were better.

So, in conclusion, changing coaches, tougher competition, etc do not appear to be a factor.  The only explainable factor is the changing of conferences.

Moving to the B1G absolutely hurt Nebraska and there are no signs of digging out of it...other than a whole lot of denial and hope.

[A’Dam Psycho 1470]

Corn Sucker fans will never admit that going to the Big Ten was the single dumbest decision ever made by a major program. It’s never a good idea to give up your recruiting footprint in the state of Texas. But whatever 

[zork 629]

nub was in the shitty big 12 north as well. given that maybe this statement is correct but not at the time nub moved out, especially if in big 12 south at that time:

Quote

It will always be harder to win in the B1G because the competition is harder/better than the B12. 

 

[A’Dam Psycho 1470]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:47 AM, Tuco said:

Texas has a lot of high school talent.  Texas has a lot of colleges recruiting that high school.  Having a "TX" after the high school does not make the player better. 

Nebraska did not build to elite status on Texas talent.  Turner Gil was the best player out of Texas that I can recall.  Going off the top of my head: Frazier - Florida, Rozier - New Jersey; Lawrence Phillips - California;  Ahman Green, Scott Frost, Eric Crouch - Nebraska.  You want to talk about the "success" of the Pelini era?  Ok.  Ameer Abdullah - Georgia, Roy Helu - Cal, Suh - Oregon, T-mart- Cal.   

You guys start with the premise that Nebraska must recruit Texas to be successful.  The premise is wrong.  Yes, Pelini had an enhanced focus on Texas.  But, he was a bad recruiter.  He did not bring in top talent.  Occasionally, he'd land a guy like T. Martinez, who flashed brilliance at times, but then at other times you'd realize why very few programs recruited his as QB .  Callahan, whose classes were ranked higher than Pelini and brought in many of the higher ranked recruits that staffed Pelini's early rosters, did not focus on Texas.  Osborne, whose classes put any other Nebraska coach to shame, did not focus on Texas.  But Osborne had two things going for him in recruiting: he was consistently successful and he was recruiting for an atypical offense, which got him access to the highest rated "dual threat" QBs.  That has nothing to do with the Big 12 or the Big 10.    

This statement is literally why Nebraska is ass my dude. This isn’t the 80s anymore bruh. Nebraska can’t rely on prestige to lure kids from across the country. They’re not one win over Oklahoma away from winning a title every year like the past. Nebraska has a major opportunity playing Texas, Baylor, TCU, TTech, etc to have a footprint in Texas. Oklahoma understands, why don’t you fools get it?

[jdhorn92 1545]

I think a good comparison is Mizzou.  They're footprint is Texas and the SW/SE and they've managed to maintain their footing from where Chase Daniel and co. had gotten them in B12.  Neb going to a Northern Conference while not having ANY historical or logical connection has doomed them.  SEC is on a par with B10 in terms of competitiveness and Mizzou has managed to stay relevant (their timing was very lucky as the East has been meh up until last couple years with Georgia), heck they have won their division 2-3 times.  Neb should have stayed , them and CO. should have let it play out, they both hit the panic button.

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, jdhorn92 said:

I think a good comparison is Mizzou.  They're footprint is Texas and the SW/SE and they've managed to maintain their footing from where Chase Daniel and co. had gotten them in B12.  Neb going to a Northern Conference while not having ANY historical or logical connection has doomed them.  SEC is on a par with B10 in terms of competitiveness and Mizzou has managed to stay relevant (their timing was very lucky as the East has been meh up until last couple years with Georgia), heck they have won their division 2-3 times.  Neb should have stayed , them and CO. should have let it play out, they both hit the panic button.

Except Mizzu was never one of THEE blue blood college football programs.  Nebraska was.  Key word..."was".  Otherwise, spot on.  And the bold sums all of this up in a nutshell.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12181]

14 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

This is probably true.  IF, and I mean IF it ever comes to be that there is a situation where the program returns to what it once was, it will only because the coach is allowed time to get it there.  Not 5 years, not 10 years, maybe 15 years of good recruiting after good recruiting years coinciding with consistent coaching.....which I'm not even sure is possible anymore as coaches changes jobs like underwear.

It will always be harder to win in the B1G because the competition is harder/better than the B12.  Kirby Smart is getting elite class after elite class of players and is still struggling to beat teams that they should beat.  You not only have to know how to get players that are good enough, you better know how to develop them AND know how to execute a game plan to damn near perfection to beat the guys that are at the top of the heap right now.  I don't think HCSF is capable of that right now.  I don't know if he ever will be.  There is a better chance that at some point 10-15 years from now he will be closer to it than he is now.   

The one area that I do not understand that Nebraska quit recruiting in was east coast.  They would generally pull a couple kids out of there annually, but it seems like a long time since that's happened.  If you can get a kid from Cali, you should be able to get a kid from the east.

TLDR patience is a virtual

I agree with all of this. I also believe Frost's coaching speaks for itself. Nebraska isn't going to land top 20 classes due to proximity, but with coaching and being in the Midwest, Frost can find some gems, and the occasional 4* kids to fill out classes. Maurice Washington comes to mind. He was an All-American that ended up there 2 years ago, I believe. There's no reason at least a few more each class won't follow. Winning makes a big difference. Think Wisconsin in terms of recruiting/success IF everything goes according to plan. 
 

Edit: I just have to say that y'all may not be Wisky with success, but y'all can definitely compete for the conference with them. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Spider2YBanana

[kopp0e 1135]

On 10/15/2019 at 4:47 PM, Cornfusion said:

I wouldn't trade the Big 10 or Scott Frost for anything I see in college football today.  I don't expect any of you to believe it or understand it, though.

You guys get the last word.

I'd say B1G has given the last word on this issue (from a fans point of view from inside the Rust Belt):

 

Nebraska Football isn't Just a Has Been... It's a Never Was


https://www.offtackleempire.com › nebraska-football-isnt-just-a-has-been-i...

And hey... what a conference it was! There was Oklahoma... and... well... Oklahoma... and then I guess Colorado got good? Wait... who was in this conference again? You’re Nothing Special

 

No matter what, though, every Nebraska fan has tried so golly hard to share a bit of their excitement for their own program, its history, and its traditions. Well, let me for once and for all share with all of you what most of us in the B1G think about your program’s history and traditions.

We don’t fucking care.
You played in a joke of a conference.
Your traditions suck.

You’re just some team who we didn’t think would be a total screw-up that added a bit more competition to the conference. You’re just the same as Illinois, or Purdue, or Minnesota... OK, with a bit more fan dedication but nothing beyond that. You’re just another team to beat in the West. That’s all.

 

[camel at sea 589]

Scott Frost needs more than two recruiting cycles to get a fair eval.  But I do wonder if he can recruit the kind of talent he wants.  Generally speaking you build a college program to maximize the type of talent produced in a given region.  SEC teams look the way they do because "Southern" HS football looks the way it does.  The Big 12 is largely the same thing with our programs mirroring Texas HS football.  

Frost is trying to build a team that looks schematically Big 12ish (based on his time at Oregon/UCF) in a region that produces the type of HS talent to build Iowas and Wisconsins.  If playing in the Big 12 again gave them a small boost in Texas (which produces the type of players he wants), it wouldn't hurt their efforts in Florida or California.  So they'd be better off just on that alone.  But add in getting a rivalry game back on the schedule that moves the needle nationally and maybe it helps everywhere.  It's easier to sell kids on the rebuild if you remind them of what you used to be occasionally.  The worst part of being in the B1G, for them, is that nobody is ever reminded of their glory days when they play anyone on their schedule.

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

16 hours ago, Landomatic said:

I already did that.  You just didn't want to hear it.  Basic math and geography seem to not fit your narrative therefor, you just choose to dismiss it.  And apparently common sense falls into that same category.

Here's more for you if it helps.  Although, from what I've seen so far, I assume you'll just figure out more mental gymnastics to dismiss this too.  But that's okay, I enjoy football stats and winning arguments on the internet.

Nebraska - First 8 Years in the B1G vs. Last 8 Years in the Big 12 (seems like a very logical data pool)

Winning Percentage

    Big 12 - 64%

    B1G - 58%

Division Championships

    Big 12 - 4

    B1G - 1

Average Final Division Standing

    Big 12 - 2.25

    B1G - 1 - 3.38

Number of Years Ranked in the Final Top 25

    Big 12 - 4

    B1G - 2

Average Final Ranking when Ranked

    Big 12 - 19.25

    B1G - 24.5

Bowl Wins

    Big 12 - 4

    B1G - 2

By literally every single measurable category, Nebraska has been worse in the B1G than they were in the Big 12.  Over an EIGHT year span for each.  That's not "you're just cherry picking stats."  That's not "just a few down years."  That's not "we were mediocre in the Big 12 and we're mediocre now."  That is "we've gotten considerably worse since we've moved."

And when you take it one step further and look at all of it from a year-by-year perspective, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it's been a very steady decline since moving to the B1G.  That is to say, Nebraska's best years in the B1G were the fist few, by far (and by the looks of things, adding this year will only add to that).  Meanwhile, results were pretty sporadic throughout their last 8 years in the Big 12...meaning, there was no real common explanation for years they sucked vs years they were better.

So, in conclusion, changing coaches, tougher competition, etc do not appear to be a factor.  The only explainable factor is the changing of conferences.

Moving to the B1G absolutely hurt Nebraska and there are no signs of digging out of it...other than a whole lot of denial and hope.

Who exactly are you trying to convince?

Do you seriously believe Nebraska left the Big 12 in an effort to achieve more success on the football field? I can give you $51+ Million reasons why they left, why they're better off now, and why they're never coming back. Toss in a conference network that shows their games, and a conference of sister schools that treat them as equals (and will still be a conference 10 years from now). 

Nebraska has won as many conference titles since they left the Big 12 as Texas has. Is it fair to say that Nebraska's move to the B1G absolutely hurt Texas? Seems to follow by the same 'logic.'

The Big 12 lost four teams and replaced them with two lower profile teams. That's what bothers you. It's jilted lover syndrome. Especially regarding Nebraska. That's a name brand that ditched you and you didn't see it coming. 

[Landomatic 3813]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Who exactly are you trying to convince?

Do you seriously believe Nebraska left the Big 12 in an effort to achieve more success on the football field? I can give you $51+ Million reasons why they left, why they're better off now, and why they're never coming back. Toss in a conference network that shows their games, and a conference of sister schools that treat them as equals (and will still be a conference 10 years from now). 

Nebraska has won as many conference titles since they left the Big 12 as Texas has. Is it fair to say that Nebraska's move to the B1G absolutely hurt Texas? Seems to follow by the same 'logic.'

The Big 12 lost four teams and replaced them with two lower profile teams. That's what bothers you. It's jilted lover syndrome. Especially regarding Nebraska. That's a name brand that ditched you and you didn't see it coming. 

Wow, I am just shocked that you missed the point of this entire discussion and somehow want to turn it into "my conference is better than yours" talk.  Shocked I tell ya.

Are all Ohio people as insecure as you?

[Thiefery 4995]

Fuck the rust belt conference