2020 - 2021 Dallas Mavericks: That motherfu*ker in Dallas is coming

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

On 1/24/2021 at 9:45 AM, CBT said:

Missing 5 pieces of the rotation seems to be tough to overcome. JRich was on the bench though, so he should be back soon, thank god.

 

yeah, no KP was brutal.  Boban just cannot play that much.  Kenyan Jr with some sick blocks, but not a great outing for a depleted Mavs team.

[Drew 2494]

The worst part is that even when these guys are cleared from the Safety Protocols, they still have to pass the Mavs conditioning tests(Richardson hasn't as of right now) and then it'll probably be a few games until they're back in the flow of things.  Heck some guys say the Covid has them feeling tired and worn out months later still.

Chances are we really don't see a full Mavs squad until late February, and won't really know what kind of team we have until March or April. 

[Vic Mackey 47083]

 

[Party_Taco 3742]

KP sucked ass late and the lack of touches for TH2 in the fourth given how hot he was is inexcusable.

[RexWilson 1348]

Sucks having to give Luka so many minutes to end up with the lose. We desperately need to get Maxi, JRich etc back and ready to play.

[Party_Taco 3742]

Based on how things finished, you COULD argue that bringing Luka back drove the loss, what with him forcing it to KP down low and only contributing 2 points down the stretch.

If THJ is hot at home get him the GD ball.

[LurkingHorn 1066]

Mavs are currently under .500, the 10th seed, and this is their next 7 games:

@ UTAH

@ UTAH

VS PHX

VS PHX

@ ATL

VS GSW

VS GSW

This is what makes the slow starts even more frustrating and it happens every season with this bunch. 

[gyroprotagonist 2594]

1 hour ago, LurkingHorn said:

Mavs are currently under .500, the 10th seed, and this is their next 7 games:

@ UTAH

@ UTAH

VS PHX

VS PHX

@ ATL

VS GSW

VS GSW

This is what makes the slow starts even more frustrating and it happens every season with this bunch. 

missed the last qtr of the game but, Denver was getting anything they wanted on offense.  Mavs were not slowing down fast breaks or secondary breaks at all.  Did they give up 70 in the first half?  FFS, I know the team is depleted but damn. 

 everytime the Mavs hit a 3, the Nuggets would answer with a 3.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Yeah the defense was pathetic at times. 

[gsoda3 3263]

the defense during the comeback was pretty great.  and then the wheels fell off on both ends of the floor.

[Pato del Muerto 52527]

Have the mavs played a single game yet where all of their players were available?

[conVINCEd 21469]

20 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Have the mavs played a single game yet where all of their players were available?

I don’t think so.  KP came back a game or two after the COVID guys went out IIRC.

[LurkingHorn 1066]

Sounds like all but Maxi have been upgraded to questionable for tomorrow's game against Utah. 

[Dirk X West 772]

8 hours ago, LurkingHorn said:

Mavs are currently under .500, the 10th seed, and this is their next 7 games:

@ UTAH

@ UTAH

VS PHX

VS PHX

@ ATL

VS GSW

VS GSW

This is what makes the slow starts even more frustrating and it happens every season with this bunch. 

This article from the Athletic (which is behind a pay wall) explains some of things factoring into Dallas's slow start:

The Mavericks’ 8-8 start is the consequence of a bizarre NBA season
 

1. This Mavericks season has reached a distinct middle-of-the-ocean-and-no-land-in-sight moment. Josh Richardson returned to the bench in street clothes on Saturday night, proof that time has continued moving forward despite what it might feel like. But Dallas has now played 16 games – falling to 8-8 after Saturday’s 133-108 defeat to Houston – without us having any clue what this team will actually be. Even when it was only missing Kristaps Porzingis, the team was still acclimatizing Richardson’s addition and starting an ineffective Dwight Powell. There’s been almost no normalcy to the season’s first month; points have been tallied and results finalized but uncertainty reigns. And, sure, you’ll run into the Americas eventually if you keep sailing west, but there’s no telling when that might be.

Richardson should be back next week, Carlisle announced before the game, but the other absent players – Powell, Dorian Finney-Smith and Maxi Kleber – will likely remain out longer than that. The exact timetables are hard to measure; the players have conditioning tests to pass in their ramp back up to play even after they’ve cleared health and safety protocols. In the meantime, the Mavericks push forward through one of the most grueling stretches of schedule I’ve ever seen associated with professional basketball. Since the team’s postponed game on Jan. 11 gave them an unplanned breather, it has looked like this for the team (each line represents one day):

GAME
TRAVEL
GAME
TRAVEL
GAME
GAME
TRAVEL
GAME
TRAVEL
GAME
TRAVEL
GAME
GAME

Sunday is the team’s first true day off – a day sandwiched between two home games with no travel required – since Jan. 12. And while the team plays seven more games in 11 days starting Monday, that stretch contains less travel, including a day off between a doubleheader at Utah and four home games, almost doubling the five they’ve played thus far. Between returning players and more days off, the team might actually look alive again in the coming weeks. It just might not seem that way until it actually happens.

2. 8-8 after the opening month Dallas has had is good enough. It’s a frustrating, dismal opening month for all the reasons outlined above, but the record has them tied for the eighth seed in the Western Conference along with San Antonio and Golden State, two teams the Mavericks will cruise past at full strength. Dallas beat San Antonio just Friday night, after all. They’re the better basketball team, I promise you. They’re better than the Grizzlies, a team currently ahead of them in the standings. They’re likely better than Phoenix, although I’ll wait for further evidence from both parties before deciding one way or another. Dallas is in no danger of missing the playoffs, even if the blasé start may unfortunately impact their ability later this year to push for home-court advantage.

3. I’m being rational in case you don’t want to be. I know what it’s like to be a sports fan; the irrationality is the whole point. This is an objectively miserable time to be one of the Mavericks’. To lose games and get frustrated is the fundamental sports experience, but to do so without the rest or players needed to function is something worse. There’s no baseline to reset our collective expectations to right now. The basketball math guys keep talking and writing about the rubber band effect, like our own Seth Partnow earlier this season. He describes it like this:

This brings us to the second odd trend we’re seeing: The decline of the “rubber band effect.” It’s a common feature of many professional sports that teams play differently with and without the lead. These stylistic changes are sizable enough that for flow sports such as soccer and hockey, which use time of possession-based metrics (or estimates thereof) to track dominance over the course of the game removed from the randomness inherent in games where scoring events are as rare as in those sports, substantial game state “score effects” need to be built into the analysis to account for teams playing more defensively with the lead and aggressively when chasing. Though less the case in the NBA than in those sports, there is plenty of research suggesting a sort of gravity pulling the score margin toward zero, which gets stronger the larger the margin.

In other words, when commentators say, “You know they’re going to make a run later in this game,” about the losing team in a 20-point game, they’re remarking on a trend that’s generally supported by the statistics. Teams who fall behind tend to play better, and vice versa. And yet that hasn’t happened much this season. Dallas saw it happen when it beat the Clippers by 51 points. But it happened Saturday night, too, when the Mavericks cut an 11-point halftime deficit to a three-point game within five minutes. Wes Iwundu missed an open corner 3 to tie it, and then … the resistance crumbled again. The team was down by 19 points by the quarter’s end. The rookies played the final six minutes of the game.

We’re not used to basketball looking like it has this season, something that goes deeper than the lack of fans and post-game hug police. The game being played on the court has different trends than in the past. It’s perfectly reasonable to look at the Mavericks last night and call them out for a lack of effort because that would probably be true in past seasons. I’m not sure that it is this year. Fatigue, both mental and physical, doesn’t randomly target a specific ability of a player so much as sapping all of them by increments. It’s not like a tired player suddenly can’t rebound or only gets worse at making layups while being 100 percent in all other areas. Rather, everything he does falls to 90 percent, or 85, or 80, until fatigued players suddenly look like James Harden wanting to be traded.

So that’s the baseline we don’t have for this season, and it’s made everything less fun. And, yeah, of course some players simply haven’t been good enough, and of course some games have been lost that shouldn’t have this season. But I think you’ll find that even the wins sometimes feel hollow, like the Clippers blowout that seemed more like another 2020 aberration than the historic event it statistically was. Which, I don’t know — I don’t have all the answers or solutions. I certainly don’t mean to say sports can’t be enjoyed right now. This is just an attempt to explain why they might feel different than normal.

4. Here’s something to enjoy, observed from my media seat at the American Airlines Center: At some point in the second half, Rick Carlisle called for Jalen Brunson to check into the game, and when Brunson passed behind him, he tapped him on the shoulder and kept walking. Carlisle turned and looked where Brunson was no longer standing
— the mildest prank ever invented, which I know you all played in high school. He then pivoted his head the other way, but Brunson was already reaching the scorer’s table by then, not even acknowledging what had just taken place. You got got, Coach.

5. Another thing you can enjoy is Luka Doncic, who contributed a 26-point night with five rebounds and eight assists despite the otherwise depressing box score. He often meanders his way towards the “best offensive player alive” label before stepping back from it with a rash turnover or a literal step-back 3 that misses badly — among the few flaws remaining in his game, especially now that he provides better defensive effort more often. (I still wouldn’t call him a good defensive player, despite that three-game stretch where he was playing incredibly well on that end, but he’s certainly good enough, with a more functional on-off switch than he’s shown before.) Now that he’s added effective mid-range counters to his game, it’s tough to think he won’t reach that label soon enough. I asked Doncic about it afterward, and he says he worked on it during the offseason and feels comfortable taking them. Carlisle added, “A guy like him has to have mid-range counters because of all the ways guys are going to play him, and he works on it, so it’s a weapon.” I would agree with that.

This season, Doncic is 24-of-42 on mid-range shots, as defined by the NBA’s stats page, which already tops his 20-of-57 mark last season. As an eternal reminder, analytics don’t decry mid-range shots, but bad shots: If Doncic continues hitting anywhere near 57 percent of his mid-rangers, they’re good shots, especially when you consider it must affect how defenses play him when he drives and makes it easier to score in the paint or kick to his teammates.

6. Willie Cauley-Stein did so much in the 19 minutes he played, which is usually a sentence you write when referring only to someone’s good plays. That certainly isn’t the case this time. He did actually bother DeMarcus Cousins more than any other Maverick, although not enough to prevent Boogie from a 28-point, 17-rebound evening. But, mostly, he was just incredibly noticeable for what felt to me like every single moment he was on the court, always doing something, whether or not it was a basketball thing worth doing to help his team win. This defensive possession on the game’s opening play is something that I don’t have words for. Like, if the following video clip was what basketball actually was, I would not have a job. I cannot describe anything that happens in this play. I am sorry.

7. Dallas plays Denver on Monday, followed by the sounds-like-the-name-of-a-law-firm Utah & Utah and Phoenix & Phoenix doubleheaders. The Utah games happen on the road while the team returns home to finish playing the Suns for the season. Enjoy this bizarro campaign as much as you can — I sincerely mean that.

[Drew 2494]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:47 AM, LurkingHorn said:

Mavs are currently under .500, the 10th seed, and this is their next 7 games:

@ UTAH

@ UTAH

VS PHX

VS PHX

@ ATL

VS GSW

VS GSW

This is what makes the slow starts even more frustrating and it happens every season with this bunch. 

The plus side is that they've played the 5th toughest schedule so far, and are staying afloat, if slightly under, and never having their entire team healthy for a single game, and the last 2 weeks missing 3/4 starters at a time.

After this stretch they have the 29th easiest schedule as these guys come back.

 

As I said in my last post, by late February we'll have a MUCH better idea what this team will look like.

[dcar00 14271]

17 minutes ago, Drew said:

The plus side is that they've played the 5th toughest schedule so far, and are staying afloat, if slightly under, and never having their entire team healthy for a single game, and the last 2 weeks missing 3/4 starters at a time.

After this stretch they have the 29th easiest schedule as these guys come back.

 

As I said in my last post, by late February we'll have a MUCH better idea what this team will look like.

that all depends on KP which isn't covid or schedule related IMO.  If he plays they can be a 6 or 7.  if he plays at a high level 4 or 5.  if he's hurt look out.

[gsoda3 3263]

Did Luka just pick up a T right after the clock hit 0?

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Mavs give up a solid 69 points in the 1st half again.

[immortal13 4059]

I'm beginning to grow tired of all the excuses as to why we suck

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Jazz have about 20 dunks and 20 wide open 3s.

Utah finishes with 100 points through 3 quarters.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Loch Ness Monster

[Pato del Muerto 52527]

 Not watching but perused the stats and what jumped out was jazz 39 rebounds mavs 22. Gobert had 16 so he’s almost even with the entire opposition. 
could be a reflection of the shooting percentages which would give Utah many more dreb opportunities, but the rebounding seems to be an issue every night. 

[gsoda3 3263]

  
could be a reflection of the shooting percentages which would give Utah many more dreb opportunities, but the rebounding seems to be an issue every night. 

It's both. We just looked tired. But our schedule has been grueling so it's understandable. Our defense is the worst I've ever seen but if you don't have legs it's hard to play D.

[Pato del Muerto 52527]

Same # of fg attempts so I’ll guess that the 11-4 offensive rebound difference is correlated to the 21-9 free throw disparity (16-8 made)

[Vic Mackey 47083]

2 hours ago, immortal13 said:

I'm beginning to grow tired of all the excuses as to why we suck

Different year, same shit. This team is Luka and a lot of question marks Same shit over and over which is KP is hurt or being load managed. Soft and non existent defense. Get killed on the boards game after game. Remember the offseason hype of how better on defense we would be? Riiiight.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Vic Mackey

[dcar00 14271]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Different year, same shit. This team is Luka and a lot of question marks Same shit over and over which is KP is hurt or being load managed. Soft and non existent defense. Get killed on the boards game after game. Remember the offseason hype of how better on defense we would be? Riiiight.

 

exactly. I called it early. same shit.  crappy D.  I take back what I said.  there is no way this team is anything other than a 7 or 8 seed.  Carlisle doesn't give a shit about D or Rebounding.  I'm actually ready to move on from him.

[Vic Mackey 47083]

7 hours ago, dcar00 said:

exactly. I called it early. same shit.  crappy D.  I take back what I said.  there is no way this team is anything other than a 7 or 8 seed.  Carlisle doesn't give a shit about D or Rebounding.  I'm actually ready to move on from him.

I have been ready to move on from him for some years now. The honeymoon phase after the title is long gone. That is 10 years ago this year. And since then? Not one single playoff series win. None. Nada. In fact, I can count exactly how many playoff games in total we have won, much less series. It isn't much. Not sure why he constantly gets a free pass for slow starts, no defense, poor in game management. He botched the Rondo deal. Cuban went and got him a good PG (that has since been proven big time) and his ego got in the way and suffocated Rondo. Was Rondo at fault, too? Sure. But this is pro sports, not fucking high school. The coach is not bigger than the players here.Rick did not let him play his game at all and Rondo could not deal with him.

Rick was suited for the team he came to. Dirk was a vet and this whole care was vets. He did not have to develop anyone from the title team. I do not trust him to win with Luka. Not sure why we are sticking with Rick when we stripped it completely down. That is usually when you bring in a new regime. But I guess he will get a lifetime pass to piss in the wind as long as he likes from the front office, fans and media because of 10 years ago. I have never seen any media call him out like they do other coaches in this area for other sports.

[LurkingHorn 1066]

I'm not really as upset about the losing so much as how we're losing. In my mind, you still have your best two players so you should not be getting run out of the gym like they are. I'm willing to give KP some more time coming off the injury, but he's going to have to be better than he's showing right now. 

[dcar00 14271]

Cuban's shine has worn off as well, IMO.  not that there is anything you can do but he has a generational talent and is going to waste him with a coach in decline and betting on a 7 foot dude with injury issues and Jags.

I get the schedule and I get the roster/covid issue right now but I've seen this movie before.    I don't care that the NBA is a bunch of guys not caring about D.  If you don't play D and don't rebound you have to shoot like the warriors and surprise...we don't.

Hell, Avery Johnson took the mavs with Dirk to the finals and arguably should have won if not for officials.  

gonna be hilarious if Pop gets that SA team to the playoffs.

[dcar00 14271]

5 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

I'm not really as upset about the losing so much as how we're losing. In my mind, you still have your best two players so you should not be getting run out of the gym like they are. I'm willing to give KP some more time coming off the injury, but he's going to have to be better than he's showing right now. 

that is exactly the point.  we aren't looking at the losses so much as seeing the play suck donkey balls.

[Vic Mackey 47083]

56 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Cuban's shine has worn off as well, IMO.  not that there is anything you can do but he has a generational talent and is going to waste him with a coach in decline and betting on a 7 foot dude with injury issues and Jags.

I get the schedule and I get the roster/covid issue right now but I've seen this movie before.    I don't care that the NBA is a bunch of guys not caring about D.  If you don't play D and don't rebound you have to shoot like the warriors and surprise...we don't.

Hell, Avery Johnson took the mavs with Dirk to the finals and arguably should have won if not for officials.  

gonna be hilarious if Pop gets that SA team to the playoffs.

Yep. Dallas has shown to get rid of coaches even after they had success. As you said, Avery really was no different than Rick except the refs did not dick him down in 2011. Avery was in over his head as well against Pat Riley. Rick went against Spoelstra before they figured out how to win when it mattered. I am not knocking Rick for that title at all but it's been 10 years and we have been irrelevant since then. Cuban went all in on DWill and Howard that summer. He failed and really has been chasing ever since. They completely wasted the rest of Dirk's career. Cuban and company just put junk around him constantly. 

We now have another Dirk like franchise player who has more natural skills than Dirk. But the thing is, that isn't enough. MJ, Dirk, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, etc can not win on their own. Cuban and this front office has to get another star in here and fill out the rest with a formidable roster. Is KP that person? I don't buy in but we will see. How long can we count on him and baby him to get back? Only to have a setback and do it all over again. Never ending cycle with him. The Knicks knew what they were doing when they gave him up for a lesser return. Everyone clowned and laughed (mainly because they are the Knicks) but we did not fleece them. They knew he was baggage and tired of his act and wanted to cut bait. I have a feeling Dallas is going to feel the same a few years down the line. Except now he has a big contract. 

What worries me more is Luka in terms of if he will stay. Luka is not like Dirk at all. He is not sticking around while Cuban dicks around with roster management. Luka is not low key humble like Dirk. He knows he is one of the best and loves the life that brings. He already said he loved being in Florida in the bubble. I don't see him being a lifer no matter what. Cuban is going to have to earn it to keep him around for the longevity. But Cuban has never landed that big time free agent in the open market. The good thing is that I think the NBA young core gravitates towards Luka more than they did Dirk. They respected Dirk no doubt but did they really want to come here to play with him. The NBA is a fraternity and you have to network and be in that circle. Dirk was always an outsider in that regards. He stayed to himself more. 

[LurkingHorn 1066]

Man...you guys are projecting quite a bit based upon 18 games where we haven't had a full line-up. I'm equally upset about how things have started but my main concern is having to play catch up the rest of the season because we're going to be in such a big hole--not losing Luka or RC being a problem. Playing as the 6-8 seed is going to suck, but Rick is a great coach and received a really shitty hand the first month of the season. 

Longer-term, I'm way more concerned about KP being the #2 than I am Rick being the coach. 

[dcar00 14271]

Just now, LurkingHorn said:

Man...you guys are projecting quite a bit based upon 18 games where we haven't had a full line-up. I'm equally upset about how things have started but my main concern is having to play catch up the rest of the season because we're going to be in such a big hole--not losing Luka or RC being a problem. Playing as the 6-8 seed is going to suck, but Rick is a great coach and received a really shitty hand the first month of the season. 

Longer-term, I'm way more concerned about KP being the #2 than I am Rick being the coach. 

well yeah that was our concern.  we needed Luka and KP playing at a very high level to have a chance.  Rick is a good coach but the last 10 years are Jason Garrett-like.

yes we can win with Rick.

IMO, Cuban/Donnie are more of the issue.   you need 3 dudes in this NBA world.  we have 1.5.

[Vic Mackey 47083]

23 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

Man...you guys are projecting quite a bit based upon 18 games where we haven't had a full line-up. I'm equally upset about how things have started but my main concern is having to play catch up the rest of the season because we're going to be in such a big hole--not losing Luka or RC being a problem. Playing as the 6-8 seed is going to suck, but Rick is a great coach and received a really shitty hand the first month of the season. 

Longer-term, I'm way more concerned about KP being the #2 than I am Rick being the coach. 

This is literally every year, though since we won the title. "Rick has been dealt a shitty hand". And those excuses will deflect any blame from him. Sorry, 10 years with zero playoff series wins is pretty damning. We have been irrelevant for 10 years but for some reason, Mavs fans never ever question Rick. Hell, Rangers fans had zero problem with questioning Ron Washington and this was not long after his back to back WS appearances. Is it because Rick won that he gets a free pass from media and fans? Seems like it. Our biggest achievement since the title is taking the Spurs further than any other team in 2014 and then taking LA to 6 last year. That's it. Even the Knicks have won a playoff series more recently.

Rick is not a great coach. He's a good coach right now. Nothing has been great about the last 10 years. If you want to roll with the "bad hand" card, that's fine. Either way you slice it, nothing about it has been great at all. He cost us a really good PG in Rondo because of his ego. I'd rather have Rondo in 2015 than Rick.

And I am concerned a lot about both. KP and Rick. I do not think Rick is the right guy for this team going forward. 

My concerns are not just after these 18 games. It is the body of work for years and years. Rick is going to milk that lone title for the rest of his life. You act like there is no life after Rick. When the Pistons got rid of him and literally had much better success after him. 2 straight Finals and won one. Rick is not some god. To Dallas fans he might be because he got us our only title but Avery Johnson also got to the Finals with Dirk. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Vic Mackey

[LurkingHorn 1066]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

This is literally every year, though since we won the title. "Rick has been dealt a shitty hand". And those excuses will deflect any blame from him. Sorry, 10 years with zero playoff series wins is pretty damning. We have been irrelevant for 10 years but for some reason, Mavs fans never ever question Rick. Hell, Rangers fans had zero problem with questioning Ron Washington and this was not long after his back to back WS appearances. Is it because Rick won that he gets a free pass from media and fans? Seems like it. Our biggest achievement since the title is taking the Spurs further than any other team in 2014 and then taking LA to 6 last year. That's it. Even the Knicks have won a playoff series more recently.

Rick is not a great coach. He's a good coach right now. Nothing has been great about the last 10 years. If you want to roll with the "bad hand" card, that's fine. Either way you slice it, nothing about it has been great at all. He cost us a really good PG in Rondo because of his ego. I'd rather have Rondo in 2015 than Rick.

And I am concerned a lot about both. KP and Rick. I do not think Rick is the right guy for this team going forward. 

Are you of the opinion there is another coach out there who would have had better success with those rosters of the past 10 years than Rick? Because I can tell you, if there are any, the list is extremely short. The truth is both of you have no idea who a better solution would be and it's likely there isn't one. 

[LurkingHorn 1066]

22 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

well yeah that was our concern.  we needed Luka and KP playing at a very high level to have a chance.  Rick is a good coach but the last 10 years are Jason Garrett-like.

yes we can win with Rick.

IMO, Cuban/Donnie are more of the issue.   you need 3 dudes in this NBA world.  we have 1.5.

I think KP was worth a shot and they really didn't have to pay that much to get him. After this season they are finally going to have Luka and a ton of cap room to work with. Let's see what happens. 

[dcar00 14271]

Just now, LurkingHorn said:

I think KP was worth a shot and they really didn't have to pay that much to get him. After this season they are finally going to have Luka and a ton of cap room to work with. Let's see what happens. 

sure he was worth a shot because Cuban needed some kind of free agent win after wearing the collar for years and getting punked by LA.

to your second point.  I'm not holding my breath.  

[Drew 2494]

God damn this thread is staring to be like the Cowboys thread.

Ya'll really think they're ready to be playing yet?  They just got 3 guys back from covid.  They will NOT be the same players for a couple of weeks. Took Brunson a few games to get back into the swing of things and he only missed a week.

This team has flaws.  We KNEW that going into the season and they're STILL better than they were last year when they are at 100%.

The rebounding was an issue I bitched about all last season to deaf ears.  They're defense was literally Top 3 in the league before they get destroyed by Covid so they have definitely improved there.

 

I'm guessing you guys expected them to be a legit Title contender immediately or some shit? It'll take time.  They'll make some trades. They'll get better the more their guys get healthy. 

Their schedule softens up after this week, and when they win 3 of 4 and start feeling themselves again, this will all be in the rear view mirror.  Calm down guys.  We're literally barely the quarter poll of the season.

[Drew 2494]

13 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is literally every year, though since we won the title. "Rick has been dealt a shitty hand". And those excuses will deflect any blame from him. Sorry, 10 years with zero playoff series wins is pretty damning. We have been irrelevant for 10 years but for some reason, Mavs fans never ever question Rick. Hell, Rangers fans had zero problem with questioning Ron Washington and this was not long after his back to back WS appearances. Is it because Rick won that he gets a free pass from media and fans? Seems like it. Our biggest achievement since the title is taking the Spurs further than any other team in 2014 and then taking LA to 6 last year. That's it. Even the Knicks have won a playoff series more recently.

Rick is not a great coach. He's a good coach right now. Nothing has been great about the last 10 years. If you want to roll with the "bad hand" card, that's fine. Either way you slice it, nothing about it has been great at all. He cost us a really good PG in Rondo because of his ego. I'd rather have Rondo in 2015 than Rick.

And I am concerned a lot about both. KP and Rick. I do not think Rick is the right guy for this team going forward. 

My concerns are not just after these 18 games. It is the body of work for years and years. Rick is going to milk that lone title for the rest of his life. You act like there is no life after Rick. When the Pistons got rid of him and literally had much better success after him. 2 straight Finals and won one. Rick is not some god. To Dallas fans he might be because he got us our only title but Avery Johnson also got to the Finals with Dirk. 

Vic stop it.  You continue spewing this nonsense. There is not one single person in the entire league that would say Rick is anything other than a great coach, and you'll see it come to fruition.

What it is, is that you guys are not patient.  You want immediate results.  Also, the Mavs have had some of the worst covid luck and we all KNEW theyd have a tough Janurary, and we're still complaining?

They had their 9th-12th guys playing HEAVY minutes the last 3 weeks, and just getting Rich/DFS/Powell back wasn't going to fix everything.  They probably need several games before they start even feeling normal.

You're overreacting greatly. This is still easily a playoff team, and if they get healthy soon enough, maybe make a good move, they'll be a top 6 team that no one wants to play.

[gsoda3 3263]

step back from the ledge a bit.  we haven't had an off day since jan 13 and we won't have an offday for another two and a half weeks.  we've literally been either playing a game or travelling every day since jan 13 and will continue to do so.  during that time we've also had FOUR key guys out due to covid.  you don't think we're playing tired?

 

at the beginning of the season our defense was GOOD.  we were top 10 in many defensive categories.  but then the schedule hit.  and covid hit.  and we've been playing with a halved bench since.  oh and kp still isn't in game shape.  nor is powell.  nor is jrich, so we're going to continue to play poorly.  

 

and NY was tired of KP's act?  get outta here with that.  

 

 

[conVINCEd 21469]

The reason we sucked for the first few years after 2011 was because Cuban blew it up.  The reason we sucked after 2014 is because Dirk was losing a few mph off his fastball every year and he decided to stay here instead of being a role player on a contender.  He earned the right to make that call, but building a team around a,player in decline is a difficult thing to do.  The smart plays would’ve been to let the title team run it back at least once, and to trade Dirk for some youth around 2015 when he still had some value.

[Rockethorn1978 6093]

Look i'm not invested like you guys are but the rockets have had a ton of guys missing games(wall sat out 2-3, Wood is still out and obviously the harden drama) and are playing d-leaguers and are winning games at the same rate as the mavs. I hate the mavs but LOVE Luka and holy fuck the excuse machine is alive and well. KP is not a second star and i seriously think they will end up wasting some of Luka years trying to make something work that isn't gonna work. I hope he stays his whole career but if they dick around he might bounce when you know the big dogs come calling.

I saw a rumor Oladipo might go to the mavs and i hope we trade him because why the fuck would anyone want to play in a rebuild situation. Every team is dealing with injuries and covid but all this "we might not see the true mavs till march or april" shit is fucking dumb as shit. 

Mavs will be fine but Whats the general feel on KP? I live in dallas and have this debate with a ton of mavs fans, Like what am i missing? he's inconsistent as fuck, injured and soft as shit? where does anyone see him being some dominant compliment to Luka? I think everyone outside of Luka is tradeable. 

[threesheets 1673]

My general feel on KP is he was a top ten player in the bubble until the injury and will be that player again sooner than later.  I have zero concern outside of the injury situation (which is huge) as far as he goes.

[gsoda3 3263]

16 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Whats the general feel on KP? 

i hate his game.  i've always wanted a big as the #2 instead of someone who does what luka does.  i wanted vucevic before we traded for kp.  that said, it's too early to give up on the kp experiment.  

[conVINCEd 21469]

20 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Look i'm not invested like you guys are but the rockets have had a ton of guys missing games(wall sat out 2-3, Wood is still out and obviously the harden drama) and are playing d-leaguers and are winning games at the same rate as the mavs. I hate the mavs but LOVE Luka and holy fuck the excuse machine is alive and well. KP is not a second star and i seriously think they will end up wasting some of Luka years trying to make something work that isn't gonna work. I hope he stays his whole career but if they dick around he might bounce when you know the big dogs come calling.

I saw a rumor Oladipo might go to the mavs and i hope we trade him because why the fuck would anyone want to play in a rebuild situation. Every team is dealing with injuries and covid but all this "we might not see the true mavs till march or april" shit is fucking dumb as shit. 

Mavs will be fine but Whats the general feel on KP? I live in dallas and have this debate with a ton of mavs fans, Like what am i missing? he's inconsistent as fuck, injured and soft as shit? where does anyone see him being some dominant compliment to Luka? I think everyone outside of Luka is tradeable. 

I wouldn’t call him soft.  He doesn’t back down from anyone.  He played a couple of playoff games on a torn meniscus.  When he goes to the rim he goes pretty hard.  Injury prone and soft are different things IMO.

[Rockethorn1978 6093]

Ok agree to disagree on him being soft. Definitely inconsistent. With a guy like Luka you can't waste 3-4 years with the assumption he's gonna play for 20 years and stay with the Mavs. He basically started his career in his prime, If the mavs make a trade for Oladipo that would be good and give us picks and maybe a player. Dipo doesn't want to be in Houston so i think they are shopping him. I would love every second of watching Luka hit a 3 in king jamies eye to go to the finals but they are gonna have move that roster around.

[Vic Mackey 47083]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Ok agree to disagree on him being soft. Definitely inconsistent. With a guy like Luka you can't waste 3-4 years with the assumption he's gonna play for 20 years and stay with the Mavs. He basically started his career in his prime, If the mavs make a trade for Oladipo that would be good and give us picks and maybe a player. Dipo doesn't want to be in Houston so i think they are shopping him. I would love every second of watching Luka hit a 3 in king jamies eye to go to the finals but they are gonna have move that roster around.

Exactly. Luka has been a pro since he was 16. He is ready to go now. But this is now year 3 and we are still trying to tread water. At some point, they are going to have to shake it up like you said. This roster, even when healthy, is not winning a title. They are offseason darlings and hype but on the court, they still get bullied out there. Dipo would be a great move for us. At this rate, Lebron will be retired before we are Finals contenders.

[conVINCEd 21469]

2 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Ok agree to disagree on him being soft. Definitely inconsistent. With a guy like Luka you can't waste 3-4 years with the assumption he's gonna play for 20 years and stay with the Mavs. He basically started his career in his prime, If the mavs make a trade for Oladipo that would be good and give us picks and maybe a player. Dipo doesn't want to be in Houston so i think they are shopping him. I would love every second of watching Luka hit a 3 in king jamies eye to go to the finals but they are gonna have move that roster around.

I probably saw him play less than 5 times when he was with the Knicks, so I don’t have a real frame of reference for how he played there.  Last season, coming off the acl injury, he was very inconsistent early on.  Around Xmas, he flipped a switch and was a pretty consistently good player the rest of the season.  That carried over to the bubble as well.  I don’t know if he is just a slow recoverer, doesn’t take the off-season seriously, or whatever else it could be, but right now the sample size is 1 for how he plays coming off an injury.  If he’s still inconsistent at the end of February that’s a problem.  If he starts to play good consistently next month then that would line up with how last season went.

[Rockethorn1978 6093]

Well hey i just got done with almost a decade of watching multiple casts around Harden but thats the only way you can win. If you can get a big name here through trade pull the trigger and win multiple titles with Luka. I just think you're gonna end up waiting another 2 years hoping KP is the guy and maybe KP isn't the issue but i know it's not injuries and Covid. Houston has had a ton of guys miss including our first game, Tucker and gordon too. If the front office has the excuse mentality(which i doubt) then you will end up holding on to guys you should flip now. THJ and a pick for Dipo might get it done but i also saw a writer include Josh Green as well. You just don't want Luka to get frustrated and start wanting out.

[conVINCEd 21469]

3 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Well hey i just got done with almost a decade of watching multiple casts around Harden but thats the only way you can win. If you can get a big name here through trade pull the trigger and win multiple titles with Luka. I just think you're gonna end up waiting another 2 years hoping KP is the guy and maybe KP isn't the issue but i know it's not injuries and Covid. Houston has had a ton of guys miss including our first game, Tucker and gordon too. If the front office has the excuse mentality(which i doubt) then you will end up holding on to guys you should flip now. THJ and a pick for Dipo might get it done but i also saw a writer include Josh Green as well. You just don't want Luka to get frustrated and start wanting out.

Done.  Send in the paperwork.  

[Drew 2494]

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Exactly. Luka has been a pro since he was 16. He is ready to go now. But this is now year 3 and we are still trying to tread water. At some point, they are going to have to shake it up like you said. This roster, even when healthy, is not winning a title. They are offseason darlings and hype but on the court, they still get bullied out there. Dipo would be a great move for us. At this rate, Lebron will be retired before we are Finals contenders.

They're not trying to "tread water" on the season. They're trying to tread water while all these guys are hurt/recovering from Covid.  Huge difference.  They'll be very competitive when fully healthy and I fully suspect a trade will be coming by March as well.