2020 - 2021 Dallas Mavericks: That motherfu*ker in Dallas is coming

[dcar00 14963]

5 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Is that what you hope or what you think? I think they are dangerous. If you have Kawhi and PG as your #2, you have a shot any series. And seemingly every win they have, someone else steps up and helps, which we don't have. Not sure what their odds are right now to win the West but they are right up there with any team talent wise. For them, it's a matter of how they finish and their mental mindset. Because they melted down last year against Denver.And LAC was more talented. They did show some more heart this year when coming back from 0-2 and 2-3 and being down 19 in game 3.

Fuck LAC but Kawhi is damn fun to watch when he's on his game.

the have actual real role players like Jackson and Morris who show up, not like the spares we have.  Morris is the big X factor.  its great to have a big that can mix it up and also shoot.

that said, Utah in 6.  I could see 5 but Leonard is just too good.

Edited June 6, 2021 by dcar00

[Get ln My Van 934]

7 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Is that what you hope or what you think? I think they are dangerous. If you have Kawhi and PG as your #2, you have a shot any series. And seemingly every win they have, someone else steps up and helps, which we don't have. Not sure what their odds are right now to win the West but they are right up there with any team talent wise. For them, it's a matter of how they finish and their mental mindset. Because they melted down last year against Denver.And LAC was more talented. They did show some more heart this year when coming back from 0-2 and 2-3 and being down 19 in game 3.

Fuck LAC but Kawhi is damn fun to watch when he's on his game.

More what I hope than what I think, but Utah is a good, good team. I won’t be surprised if they beat LA in 5.

[Post Oak 20566]

 

 

[hobbes2702 13477]

4 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

 

 

Ding ding ding

[dcar00 14963]

1 minute ago, Post Oak said:

 

 

Wait, isn't Carlisle the fucking wizard that is supposed macgyver shit up?  or does he need 2 or 3 HOF players to win a championship like 95% of the rest of the coaches in the NBA.  this whole coach thing is fucking overrated.  find a coach who isn't a complete moron that big time FA's will play for and Guy V Lewis this shit.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Biggest thing is a lot of players hate Carlisle. Change it up.

More talent would be nice ofc.

[Harrison Stafford 3392]

Dallas has one of the worst front offices in the NBA.  Luka deserves better than having to carry this dreadful franchise on his back.

[Post Oak 20566]

1 minute ago, Harrison Stafford said:

Dallas has one of the worst front offices in the NBA.  Luka deserves better than having to carry this dreadful franchise on his back.

The FO and Rick are comfortable.  That's not a recipe for success.  Look at the Cowboys, sure they want to win but the Jones job doesn't depend on it.  

Look at the Rangers.  

My team's are all in the same fucking boat and unless they are made uncomfortable they're gonna waste Luka just like they wasted Dirk.  Like the Cowboys wasted Romo, Witten, Ware and they'll waste Dak .

[mdmost 44040]

A lot of people in the Mavs organization are still living off Dirk and Co. muscling out that 2011 Championship. Donnie still being GM is proof of that. Yes, you got Luka, just like you got Dirk. And in between those guys? 2011 was a team simply coming together at the exact right moment. And outside of that, what's been done in the last 10 years? The NBA is all about who you bring in to help your superstar. Very few franchises are ever going be like the Spurs. Cuban needs to shake things up starting with Carlisle and Donnie. This is stale and you're going to waste Luka and I don't know if the money is going to be enough to keep him around. 

[Nicole44 22315]

I don’t want to see what has happened/is happening to Lillard be Luka’s fate. I wish we could somehow get Lillard as a number two. He was so fucking frustrated after Portland’s exit he tweeted something like, “When DOES opportunity meet preparation?” Great quote but that sucks. You work your ass off and ball out and your FO won’t do shit to get you what you need to win. 

[dcar00 14963]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

A lot of people in the Mavs organization are still living off Dirk and Co. muscling out that 2011 Championship. Donnie still being GM is proof of that. Yes, you got Luka, just like you got Dirk. And in between those guys? 2011 was a team simply coming together at the exact right moment. And outside of that, what's been done in the last 10 years? The NBA is all about who you bring in to help your superstar. Very few franchises are ever going be like the Spurs. Cuban needs to shake things up starting with Carlisle and Donnie. This is stale and you're going to waste Luka and I don't know if the money is going to be enough to keep him around. 

the money is gonna be good for Luka no matter where he goes.  Dirk was from a time long past.  A player of his caliber these days wouldn't stick around as long as he did before winning a championship.  Dirk is a Mav and a Dallas guy now but I bet if he wasn't and if in 2 years the Mavs org hasn't done anything to make the team better Dirk would tell Luka to go figure out how to get that ring.

[Nicole44 22315]

SIAP…

 

[Kevin O’Shea 279]

Does it hurt, Bob?

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

JJ Redick, Melli, and Josh Richardson 💪

[Get ln My Van 934]

My first call this offseason would be to Kawhi after he opts out. My second would be to Atlanta for John Collins but that seems awfully doubtful. Idk how realistic getting Lillard would be either… Most likely scenario seems like a trade for Marcus Smart and some tier 2 big like Myles Turner.

Gonna be an interesting offseason.

[Post Oak 20566]

10 minutes ago, Get ln My Van said:

My first call this offseason would be to Kawhi after he opts out. My second would be to Atlanta for John Collins but that seems awfully doubtful. Idk how realistic getting Lillard would be either… Most likely scenario seems like a trade for Marcus Smart and some tier 2 big like Myles Turner.

Gonna be an interesting offseason.

They're probably gonna be in a position next year where they need Green, Bey and Terry to really improve. 

Which is fine because I think is a realistic ceiling for Bey and Green especially are players that the Mavs could've used this year

 

[LurkingHorn 1093]

My opinion might be unpopular but I don’t know that you can just assume you sign THJ and that he’s here for years to come. If you do that, you are basically committed to running it back with the same roster. I think they need to dump Richardson when he opts in and see what they can get before committing to THJ. I’d honestly try to get Reddick on the cheap over THJ if there are decent FA options. 
 

I will also say, I think you have to take a hard look at using Brunson in a trade to get a quality starter and I thought that before the trade deadline. I was afraid the playoffs were going to hurt his value but surely some teams will still greatly value that production at that price. 
 

And finally, please for all that is good remember that games at the beginning of the season count just as much as the end. This team, even before covid, got off to an absolutely shitty start again and it really hurt us. Imagine if we had been the 3rd seed playing the blazers instead of having the clippers tank to play us. 

[Get ln My Van 934]

5 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

They're probably gonna be in a position next year where they need Green, Bey and Terry to really improve. 

Which is fine because I think is a realistic ceiling for Bey and Green especially are players that the Mavs could've used this year

 

I would’ve liked to see some of them this series, especially Green. I’m excited to see what Terry can do next year.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Look at the Mavs 3 point % in Game 7 and tell me Seth Curry wouldn't have helped.

[LurkingHorn 1093]

6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Look at the Mavs 3 point % in Game 7 and tell me Seth Curry wouldn't have helped.

Reddick would have also been a nice help. Sucks he was injured. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

3 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

All coaching. He has no chance to use his frame always camping out on the perimeter. His usage is a joke. I can see why he’d be pouty playing for an idiot. 

Nothing is preventing him from cutting to the basket from outside. Or doing something to make his presence felt. During the run that won the Clippers the game he was about as aggressive as an old lady filling out a check in the grocery line. He's a fucking bitch. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

 

Yet got rid of Avery Johnson when everyone knew he sucked? What gives?

[Post Oak 20566]

45 minutes ago, Get ln My Van said:

I would’ve liked to see some of them this series, especially Green. I’m excited to see what Terry can do next year.

I'm generally pro-Rick but one of my chief complaints with him is his reluctance to play young players consistently.

I know this year was weird but you cant tell me you can't carve out 5 or 10 mins a night for Green and Bey.

Especially since DFS was playing so many mins.

 

[Post Oak 20566]

5 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

Yet got rid of Avery Johnson when everyone knew he sucked? What gives?

Rick isn't Avery.  Donnie and Mark are the problem.

[dcar00 14963]

54 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

My opinion might be unpopular but I don’t know that you can just assume you sign THJ and that he’s here for years to come. If you do that, you are basically committed to running it back with the same roster. I think they need to dump Richardson when he opts in and see what they can get before committing to THJ. I’d honestly try to get Reddick on the cheap over THJ if there are decent FA options. 
 

I will also say, I think you have to take a hard look at using Brunson in a trade to get a quality starter and I thought that before the trade deadline. I was afraid the playoffs were going to hurt his value but surely some teams will still greatly value that production at that price. 
 

And finally, please for all that is good remember that games at the beginning of the season count just as much as the end. This team, even before covid, got off to an absolutely shitty start again and it really hurt us. Imagine if we had been the 3rd seed playing the blazers instead of having the clippers tank to play us. 

I think Reddick is gonna be injury prone for the rest of his career and I bet his 3pt % starts to drop. I dont mind getting him on the cheap but not as a replacement for thj.

[Vic Mackey 47954]

21 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

Rick isn't Avery.  Donnie and Mark are the problem.

Rick works the best with what the 2011 team was. A veteran team. Rick is not that good with young players. Front office is definitely a problem when the moves they make constantly flop. But Rick does not get a complete pass. Indiana moved on from him because they needed a new voice. We now need a new voice. Keeping a coach that has now went a decade without even one single playoff series win is baffling. I am trying to think of a team who has did this. Get a new coach in here and shake it up.

The Mavs right now are nothing more than the Cowboys post 95 Super Bowl. And the Rangers post 2011 WS. Wandering around with no real direction. And front offices who really drop the ball. Sure, we have a superstar but the roster around him is not sustainable to be any real contender. 

 

[Post Oak 20566]

I'm trying to remember how many of those playoff teams were favored.  I've tried to block out the last decade but I don't remember any very good teams.

That's a team building problem IMO not a coaching problem.  They've been pretty talentless for the last 10 years. 

Im don't care about dying on this hill defending Rick.  I think Mark and Donnie are bigger problems.  Ultimately the only thing that matters is what and who Luka wants and he needs to be in there tomorrow letting them know that this is not ok and changes need to be fucking made.

He needs to hold their feet to the fire.

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

1 hour ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

JJ Redick, Melli, and Josh Richardson 💪

Some of the other players who were available for chump change during that time.

PJ Tucker

Derrick Rose

Austin Rivers (who was sitting at home)

 

Donnie is and has always been an absolute trash GM, full stop.

It's never mentioned, but compare the 2 rosters Dirk took to the NBA finals to all other NBA Finals participants from the Western conference in the last 20 years and I guarantee you that both of them rank at the absolute bottom of the barrel in comparison. Dirk performed miracles to have as much success as we did during the prime of his career. And for that Donnie gets a permanent job.

He can't draft for shit unless the talent is a top 10 all-time talent. 

We rarely have rookies who can even participate during the season much less be contributors in their first year.  Every trade he makes is trash. Every free agent we covet ends up being an absolute disaster. Think of all the near misses as well. Nerlens Noel, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, DeAndre Jordan, Patrick Beverly, Kemba Walker, etc.

He doesn't draft well enough to allow us to develop tradeable assets. He doesn't evaluate the league's talent well well enough to give us useful supplements to the roster.  He's just a trash GM in every conceivable way who lucked into getting 2 of the 15 best NBA players of the last 50 years. 

[LurkingHorn 1093]

Wrong thread 

Edited June 7, 2021 by LurkingHorn

[Mitch Cumsteen 18963]

51 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Some of the other players who were available for chump change during that time.

PJ Tucker

Derrick Rose

Austin Rivers (who was sitting at home)

 

Donnie is and has always been an absolute trash GM, full stop.

It's never mentioned, but compare the 2 rosters Dirk took to the NBA finals to all other NBA Finals participants from the Western conference in the last 20 years and I guarantee you that both of them rank at the absolute bottom of the barrel in comparison. Dirk performed miracles to have as much success as we did during the prime of his career. And for that Donnie gets a permanent job.

He can't draft for shit unless the talent is a top 10 all-time talent. 

We rarely have rookies who can even participate during the season much less be contributors in their first year.  Every trade he makes is trash. Every free agent we covet ends up being an absolute disaster. Think of all the near misses as well. Nerlens Noel, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, DeAndre Jordan, Patrick Beverly, Kemba Walker, etc.

He doesn't draft well enough to allow us to develop tradeable assets. He doesn't evaluate the league's talent well well enough to give us useful supplements to the roster.  He's just a trash GM in every conceivable way who lucked into getting 2 of the 15 best NBA players of the last 50 years. 

The other thing you need to remember about their roster building during the prime Dirk years is that Cuban just scoffed at the salary cap. They were consistently among the highest payrolls in the league and were able to upgrade talent that way. You really don't have that option any more with how punitive the repeater tax is. So they are going to have to do it through the draft or via trades, neither of which has been their strong suit. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

The other thing you need to remember about their roster building during the prime Dirk years is that Cuban just scoffed at the salary cap and the draft. They were consistently among the highest payrolls in the league and were able to upgrade talent that way. You really don't have that option any more with how punitive the repeater tax is. So they are going to have to do it through the draft or via trades, neither of which has been their strong suit. 

They paid 0 attention to the draft during Dirk's career and as a result they never had any young players that could be turned into tradeable assets. Looking back on those years it's a credit to Dirk's phenomenal talent that we were as consistently good as we were during that time. I believe we were 2nd to only the Spurs (a team that took player and draft evaluation seriously) in winning % over a 10 or 15 year period. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

First, you can’t say Dirk is a top 15 player in the league of the last 50 years, because he’s not, and Luka isn’t yet. That’s a ridiculous comment. Second, the aughts teams were solely constructed by Donnie and Don. Nobody else. The decision to let Nash go was Mark’s, it was bad, and without it, at least the ‘06 Finals roster would’ve been just as good as any other Finals team. I agree about the ‘11 roster, but it was similar to the Pistons’ ‘04 roster. A complete ball Club with a clear 1-2 in Dirk and JET, a great 3 with Shawn, a team leader in Kidd, and the best role players from a modern champion in recent memory. 

I beg to differ, 

 

And I specifically restricted my comparison of the last 20 years of rosters to the western conference for an obvious reason.

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

52 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Well, you’d be wrong:

1. MJ, 2. LBJ, 3. Kareem, 4. Magic, 5. Bird, 6. Kobe, 7. Shaq, 8. Hakeem, 9. Barkley, 10. KD, 11. Steph, 12. K Malone, 13. Duncan, 14. M Malone 15. Dr. J

 That isn’t a ranking - just off the top of my head - and excludes certain players that will surpass him, likely, like Giannis, Kawhi, maybe Harden (and Luka).  You could argue AI, Robinson, Pippen, Isaiah, Stockton, Havlicek, Paul, Nash, Wade or even Frazier over him and probably a few others. Also, West, Baylor, Oscar and Wilt were still playing 50 years ago. 

I love Dirk. But he’s a borderline Top 20, and about to be borderline Top 25 in about 5 years. 

At the risk of getting into a back and forth with you I'll just say this. Dirk's impact on the game is much more demonstrable than guys like Moses and Karl Malone. A good part of your list are just names you threw into a bucket of guys who were good when you and I were kids. Regardless whether it's top 15, 20, or 25 the thrust of my point is that Donnie got lucky. Maybe not so much with Dirk, because he (along with his Dad) were among the 1st NBA front office execs to begin scattering their shots across the globe rather than relying solely on domestic talent. But getting 2 elite level guys in the span of 20 years and then putting absolutely nothing around them worth a shit doesn't mean he's a good GM. 

 

And on top of that he's an epic drunk. I can't count the number of times I've seen him dragged out of the bowels of the AAC to his car service. It's laughable that he's been allowed to lead a front office for this long. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Would be incredibly disappointed if Donnie and Carlisle are back and someone equivalent to a JJ Redick is our free agent pick up. Would be no one else to blame at that point outside of Cuban if Luka starts to become unhappy in Dallas.

[LurkingHorn 1093]

7 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Would be incredibly disappointed if Donnie and Carlisle are back and someone equivalent to a JJ Redick is our free agent pick up. Would be no one else to blame at that point outside of Cuban if Luka starts to become unhappy in Dallas.

You're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

[RexWilson 1502]

Reddick is not resigning with Dallas.

I'd call Portland and offer KP for McCollum. Both organizations need a change but are limited with what they can do.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Don't see KP returning someone like McCollum. Blazers could flip him for maybe Sabonis/Myles Turner or Pascal Siakam or Paul George if the Clippers get handled by the Jazz. Moves like that. 

KP's days are definitely numbered I just think we'll have to take a negative asset back. KP's value is at an all-time low. 

[Patrick Bateman 3972]

32 minutes ago, RexWilson said:

Reddick is not resigning with Dallas.

I'd call Portland and offer KP for McCollum. Both organizations need a change but are limited with what they can do.

That'd be a very difficult sell.  CJM is in the last year of his 4 year deal at 29m.  He actually has value.  KP has over 100m due over the next 3 seasons and has missed 129 games in the last 3 seasons.  Anything is possible, but if I'm Portland's GM, I laugh at that offer.  Then again, he's not very good so just maybe....

 

[RexWilson 1502]

Oops, I thought he had multiple years left. 

[RexWilson 1502]

Just now, RexWilson said:

Oops, I thought he had multiple years left. 

He does, extension hasnt started yet. He will have 3 years left.

It really is just a rearranging the deck chairs scenario.

[cmontexas 3369]

Indianapolis like awkward white players maybe they'll give us Warren 

[LurkingHorn 1093]

34 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

That'd be a very difficult sell.  CJM is in the last year of his 4 year deal at 29m.  He actually has value.  KP has over 100m due over the next 3 seasons and has missed 129 games in the last 3 seasons.  Anything is possible, but if I'm Portland's GM, I laugh at that offer.  Then again, he's not very good so just maybe....

 

 

30 minutes ago, RexWilson said:

Oops, I thought he had multiple years left. 

 

29 minutes ago, RexWilson said:

He does, extension hasnt started yet. He will have 3 years left.

It really is just a rearranging the deck chairs scenario.

I think any deal involving KP is going to involve Brunson. They're going to have to overpay to get rid of him. Portland might be a little more enticed by that deal since they would add another ballhandler who still plays on his rookie deal next season. But honestly, I don't see a ton of great options. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

2 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Impact on the game?  Okay. But Dirk did not have a better career than either Malone. He’s not a Top 15 player, and he’s probably not a Top 20 player, and in 2030, he might be a top 25 player. And that’s ok. 

In today's game he's easily above those guys. In their eras maybe not, but if you were drafting today he'd be a top 3 pick and they'd be on the couch at home hoping for that second round call.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Llogg

[cmontexas 3369]

Would you take back Wiggins for Porzingis?

[SilasCoade 2622]

4 minutes ago, cmontexas said:

Would you take back Wiggins for Porzingis?

Wiggins plus Wiseman for KP and future picks.

[RexWilson 1502]

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Top 3 pick?  Lulz. 

I suspect the 15 first team All-NBA nods, and 5 MVPs the Malones share between them suggest they had better careers than Dirk. This isn’t controversial. And drafting for the game now (and I would dispute this point too, as it pertains to the Malones) was not the comment. It was that Dirk was a Top 15 pick of the past 50 years. He most decidedly WAS NOT. 

Do you watch the current NBA at all? A 7 footer with range is the ideal player today. I want making an all time greatest argument. I was making a hypothetical that if you put dirk and the Malone's into the 2021 draft dirk is a top 3 pick and they are second rounders. I don't see how that is even mildly controversial.

[Vic Mackey 47954]

I keep seeing this offseason is going to be huge. How? Exactly what will this front office do this time? They hitched their wagons to the KP train and are stuck with this injury riddled bozo unless they can pawn him off on a team but even at that, you are getting pennies on the dollar. Who wants someone owed 100mill over the next 3 years, can't be counted on to stay healthy and even when he is, looks to be lost on the court and can't keep up with the speed and athleticism. THJ is a good player but is he worth what he will want? We sign him to a good deal and we are now hitched to Luka/KP/THJ for the next years to come. How far is that getting us? I fear Luka is going to end up like Dame. Top 10 player. Will wow you night to night and have some huge playoff games. But his front office did very little to surround him with a team that can compete. Portland at least took one step and got rid of their coach. Which is what Dallas needs to do asap. Get a fresh voice in here for Luka and the younger cast. Rick is suited for a veteran led team.

When Trey Burke is getting crunch time game 7 minutes,you know your front office has failed miserably. 

Trading Seth for Jrich was a bust. Bringing in injured Reddick was as pointless as it got. We struck out on the KP trade. Yes it got us THJ but he was not supposed to become out 2nd best player. If that happens, it means KP failed miserably (and he did). Luka desperately needs someone who can create their own shots and get others involved so he isn't doing it all himself. Until this happens, Dallas will forever be a middle of the road team who might make a little noise in the 1st round but that's about it.

[Patrick Bateman 3972]

2 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Would you take back Wiggins for Porzingis?

Would Golden State want a guy taking minutes away from Wiseman?

 

2 hours ago, Llogg said:

Wiggins plus Wiseman for KP and future picks.

Why would Golden State give up cost controlled Wiseman for Porzingis?

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

23 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Would Golden State want a guy taking minutes away from Wiseman?

 

Why would Golden State give up cost controlled Wiseman for Porzingis?

 

I don't think they would unless they feel they have a title shot with Klay coming back and KP did that window more than Wiseman does. By demanding a haul of future picks they also shore up for the inevitable rebuild.

I don't think they would, btw, but I don't think the Mavs would do it straight up for Wiggins.