2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[ztejas 43528]

1 hour ago, Zonahorn said:

Pels need to rebuild around NAW, Hayes, Adams, Zion, BI, and Kira. I would love if we cashed in those assets for Bradley Beal. Bledsoe deserves to be shot into the sun, JJ needs to retire, and Lonzo needs to figure it out or get the fuck out.

Beal is an UFA after this season. Your best shot at another piece that would help you contend would be to package something generous and trade for a guy with a couple of years at least remaining on his contract. That and trying to salary dump Bledsoe on someone which won't be easy but there are some dumb GMs and owners still hanging around the league. 

Dinwiddie would be a nice target for you and could potentially be had cheap if BKN winds up being desperate for front court depth (which they should).

@Patrick Bateman Adams is actually on a pretty friendly deal the next 2 years at just $17M. There's no reason to get rid of him. 

Also - Zion is already a star level player. Over their last 7 he is putting up 27/7 (3 ORebs) on 60%+ FG with minimal turns (70%+ from the line, too). His next leap if he makes it will be superstar, top 10 player level. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by ztejas

[d2o 1602]

13 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

By awesome do you mean scoring a ton of points in the meanwhile giving up an insane amount of points to Jamal Murray? And also losing a 3-1 lead?

Then by all means great. They got their asses kicked by Houston 4-1 in the previous 2 years. Guess we’ll see how he handles this post shaq interview.


And yea you’re probably right with shaq puffing his chest saying he motivated Mitchell...but Mitchell isn’t exactly who I’d fear like Kobe in the playoffs despite being paid like one.

Meh, again he isn't "getting paid like Kobe" yet.   Were they better than HOU those yrs?   

He's in yr 4 and has shown consistent growth since being a HUGE surprise after being drafted.   An AS in yr 3 in a stacked west (especially in the backcourt).     Why none of this disdain for the guy that is actually maxed and still hasn't even made an ASG or delivered in the playoffs?

 

[ztejas 43528]

13 minutes ago, d2o said:

since being a HUGE surprise after being drafted.

He was a 2-and-done first team all ACC player that was a consensus fringe lottery pick projection who went 13th in the draft. I might call him a pleasant surprise - it's not like he came out of nowhere or was a late steal.

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

He was a 2-and-done first team all ACC player that was a consensus fringe lottery pick projection who went 13th in the draft. I might call him a pleasant surprise - it's not like he came out of nowhere or was a late steal.

No one was projecting him to be this good.   

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Meh, again he isn't "getting paid like Kobe" yet.   Were they better than HOU those yrs?   
He's in yr 4 and has shown consistent growth since being a HUGE surprise after being drafted.   An AS in yr 3 in a stacked west (especially in the backcourt).     Why none of this disdain for the guy that is actually maxed and still hasn't even made an ASG or delivered in the playoffs?
 

IDK I thought Utah was a dangerous team. Pretty solid stating 5 and bench and they got waxed

I need to not forget that its his 4th year. Seems like he’s been like in the league for 10

[ztejas 43528]

4 minutes ago, d2o said:

No one was projecting him to be this good.   

From NBA.com

Louisville’s Donovan Mitchell is one of the best pure athletes in the draft. He’s fast up-and-down the court, has a quick first step and is arguably the best leaper of any prospect. His 36.5-inch no step vertical leap was the highest of any player at the NBA Combine. His max vertical of 40.5 inches tied for fifth-best at the combine. And he’s got a gargantuan wingspan of 6-10, which helped him lead the ACC in steals. Mitchell was First Team All-ACC and named to the conference’s All Defensive team in what was a very productive season. He is a combo guard who has the ability to really light up the scoreboard – he had nine 20-point games. But he did trail off in March, putting three single-digit scoring efforts on the board in his final five games.

Offensively, Mitchell was great at getting to the rim. He’s solidly built, similar to Boston’s Marcus Smart, so it was not an easy task for defenders to stop him once he got up a head of steam. At Louisville, he was asked to be a scorer that could also make plays for his teammates. Mitchell was good in pick-and-roll, getting downhill quickly off the screen due to his ability to change direction on a dime and get to full speed in an instant. Mitchell could go from moving side-to-side to driving with speed and force to the rim in the blink of an eye. He is a good ball handler, and liked to split hard hedges. Mitchell was a creative finisher around the rim, but sometimes struggled to score through contact.

Mitchell can make any shot on the court, but will look to improve his field goal percentage, which dropped to 40 percent from 44.2 percent as a freshman. Mitchell was good in transition, and had to be in Louisville run-and-gun system. In transition, he was just as likely to pull up for a transition 3-pointer as he was to get to the rim. He was a perfect fit for the Cardinals offensive system.

On defense he was a basketball thief, swiping the ball from any ball handler who got a little careless with his dribble. Aided by a Louisville team that was one of the nation’s best on defense, Mitchell was the finisher: When Louisville sped up offensive players and got them shaky, Mitchell swooped in and dug out the ball. Mitchell had a real nose for the ball, getting deflections and getting in passing lanes.

That doesn't sound like someone that would be surprised if he wound up being an all-star. Usually some guys in the lottery break out and some bust. Most lottery picks have AS potential. 

Mitchell is great but he isn't a top 15 guy or a perennial all-NBA selection. Were he that I'd agree with calling him a huge surprise and absolute steal. 

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

From NBA.com

Louisville’s Donovan Mitchell is one of the best pure athletes in the draft. He’s fast up-and-down the court, has a quick first step and is arguably the best leaper of any prospect. His 36.5-inch no step vertical leap was the highest of any player at the NBA Combine. His max vertical of 40.5 inches tied for fifth-best at the combine. And he’s got a gargantuan wingspan of 6-10, which helped him lead the ACC in steals. Mitchell was First Team All-ACC and named to the conference’s All Defensive team in what was a very productive season. He is a combo guard who has the ability to really light up the scoreboard – he had nine 20-point games. But he did trail off in March, putting three single-digit scoring efforts on the board in his final five games.

Offensively, Mitchell was great at getting to the rim. He’s solidly built, similar to Boston’s Marcus Smart, so it was not an easy task for defenders to stop him once he got up a head of steam. At Louisville, he was asked to be a scorer that could also make plays for his teammates. Mitchell was good in pick-and-roll, getting downhill quickly off the screen due to his ability to change direction on a dime and get to full speed in an instant. Mitchell could go from moving side-to-side to driving with speed and force to the rim in the blink of an eye. He is a good ball handler, and liked to split hard hedges. Mitchell was a creative finisher around the rim, but sometimes struggled to score through contact.

Mitchell can make any shot on the court, but will look to improve his field goal percentage, which dropped to 40 percent from 44.2 percent as a freshman. Mitchell was good in transition, and had to be in Louisville run-and-gun system. In transition, he was just as likely to pull up for a transition 3-pointer as he was to get to the rim. He was a perfect fit for the Cardinals offensive system.

On defense he was a basketball thief, swiping the ball from any ball handler who got a little careless with his dribble. Aided by a Louisville team that was one of the nation’s best on defense, Mitchell was the finisher: When Louisville sped up offensive players and got them shaky, Mitchell swooped in and dug out the ball. Mitchell had a real nose for the ball, getting deflections and getting in passing lanes.

That doesn't sound like someone that would be surprised if he wound up being an all-star. Usually some guys in the lottery break out and some bust. Most lottery picks have AS potential. 

Mitchell is great but he isn't a top 15 guy or a perennial all-NBA selection. Were he that I'd agree with calling him a huge surprise and absolute steal. 

He was 6' tweener.    Those dont often turn into 20 pt scorers.   Especially as a rookie.   I think you are nitpicking but getting him at 13 is a pretty big deal.    Not a whole lot of guys are top 15 guy after 3 yrs so if that is critieria..........   If that draft is done over he is at worst #3 behind Tatum and Bam.   Luke Kennard, Frank Ntkeleliinina and Dennis Smith Jr all went ahead of him

[d2o 1602]

10 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

IDK I thought Utah was a dangerous team. Pretty solid stating 5 and bench and they got waxed

I need to not forget that its his 4th year. Seems like he’s been like in the league for 10

Meh, they've been a middling team for a while.    They have Mitchell/Gobert and a bunch of replacement level or worse spare parts.    The one other guy they had was hurt when they got to the playoffs (Bogdanovich)

[d2o 1602]

Rubio has spoken

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Ricky should be the last one evaluating any talent with the way he’s played this year

[ztejas 43528]

39 minutes ago, d2o said:

He was 6' tweener.    Those dont often turn into 20 pt scorers.   Especially as a rookie.   I think you are nitpicking but getting him at 13 is a pretty big deal.    Not a whole lot of guys are top 15 guy after 3 yrs so if that is critieria..........   If that draft is done over he is at worst #3 behind Tatum and Bam.   Luke Kennard, Frank Ntkeleliinina and Dennis Smith Jr all went ahead of him

I mean... that's how the draft works. There were a lot of busts in front of him and guys that had injuries derail their starts. John Collins and Jarrett Allen went after him. Sterling Brown and Monte Morris went at 46 and 51 respectively and they are both solid rotation guys that would go in the top 15 in a redraft. Collins and Allen round out the top 6 from that class along with Fox who you left out but who is almost as good as Mitchell and a year younger. 

Of course I'm nitpicking. I'm on Surly, right? 

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I mean... that's how the draft works. There were a lot of busts in front of him and guys that had injuries derail their starts. John Collins and Jarrett Allen went after him. Sterling Brown and Monte Morris went at 46 and 51 respectively and they are both solid rotation guys that would go in the top 15 in a redraft. Collins and Allen round out the top 6 from that class along with Fox who you left out but who is almost as good as Mitchell and a year younger. 

Of course I'm nitpicking. I'm on Surly, right? 

I didnt leave out Fox.   He isn't as good as Mitchell.   

[ztejas 43528]

KD out tonight. We get the Harden/Kyrie Nets.

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 hours ago, d2o said:

He was 6' tweener.    Those dont often turn into 20 pt scorers.   Especially as a rookie.   I think you are nitpicking but getting him at 13 is a pretty big deal.    Not a whole lot of guys are top 15 guy after 3 yrs so if that is critieria..........   If that draft is done over he is at worst #3 behind Tatum and Bam.   Luke Kennard, Frank Ntkeleliinina and Dennis Smith Jr all went ahead of him

Dennis Smith Jr. Wow. I'd completely forgotten about him. Is he even playing ball in America anymore?

[ztejas 43528]

26 minutes ago, ztejas said:

KD out tonight. We get the Harden/Kyrie Nets.

You know... the problem with this is not that they are missing firepower or playmaking, but that Durant is their best post defender. Kind of by far, actually. That needs to be remedied. 

[ztejas 43528]

Giving away Allen is starting to look really stupid and will continue to do so until they fix this roster. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

76ers vs C's 4th quarter-

highly entertaining- Ben Simmons' sudden offensive explosion 

highly offensive- the officiating 

[shadow_operative 15932]

Kyrie returns to the Nets and they get mashed in back to back games by the worst team in the league. Definitely just a coincidence though. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

[ztejas 43528]

46 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Kyrie returns to the Nets and they get mashed in back to back games by the worst team in the league. Definitely just a coincidence though. 

The Cavs are not the worst team in the league. Let's be a little less lazy. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

ok, the third worst team in the league. huge difference that totally changes things. 

 

edit: CLE was dead last in the league in PPG heading into this two game series against Brooklyn where they've scored 147 and 125, lol. they had scored 100+ once in their previous 11 games. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by shadow_operative

[conVINCEd 21469]

18 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Jesus.  10 blocks is a really hard thing to do.  I vaguely remember from my childhood when Hakeem put up a quadruple double with 10 blocks.

[ztejas 43528]

3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

ok, the third worst team in the league. huge difference that totally changes things. 

 

edit: CLE was dead last in the league in PPG heading into this two game series against Brooklyn where they've scored 147 and 125, lol. 

They were 6-7 before the first game against BKN. Which is as many or more wins than a third of the league still 3 days later. They are also clearly better with Allen. (and obviously Durant didn't play tonight)

Harden has been worse than Kyrie the past 2 games. We can start there and hit 4 or 5 more items going down the list at least before we even get to Kyrie who's had 75 points on 55% from the field since coming back. 

They have a lot to figure out but most of that is not about Kyrie. He's been great this season when he's chosen to play. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

The Cavs are terrible and can't score and they're going nuts on the Nets coinciding with Kyrie's return. Didn't think my two sentences observing this would turn into such a matter of contention. 

[ztejas 43528]

1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

The Cavs are terrible and can't score and they're going nuts on the Nets coinciding with Kyrie's return. Didn't think my two sentences observing this would turn into such a matter of contention. 

Also coinciding with Durant sitting a game and BKN's front court depth being gutted post Harden trade - against a team with Allen, Drummond and Nance Jr. on it. The Nets were ourtebounded 50 to 29 tonight. Is that on Kyrie? 

You made a very lazy take and I'm telling you why it's lazy. Did you watch either game?

[shadow_operative 15932]

they have GOT to make the dimensions of the court bigger. i see guys stepping out of bounds on 3-point attempts multiple times e wry night. it's behind time to make the court bigger. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

26 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Also coinciding with Durant sitting a game and BKN's front court depth being gutted post Harden trade - against a team with Allen, Drummond and Nance Jr. on it. The Nets were ourtebounded 50 to 29 tonight. Is that on Kyrie? 

You made a very lazy take and I'm telling you why it's lazy. Did you watch either game?

jesus christ dude, your feverish need to argue what was a drive-by, obviously humorous post is peak Derka. of all the posts i've ever made that caused someone to *need* to argue with me over it like this, a 10 word post about the Nets being worse with Kyrie shouldn't rank in the top 50,000, and yet here you are. pick your battles dude.

and yes, not that i have even an ounce of interest in continuing this dumbass argument, but yes, I did watch the first game and saw Colin Sexton *cooking* Kyrie Irving all night long. Kyrie absolutely played a role in the Cavs suddenly scoring like the Paul Westphal Suns. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

CP3 taking over the in the final two minutes vs Denver. Good game. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

28 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

they have GOT to make the dimensions of the court bigger. i see guys stepping out of bounds on 3-point attempts multiple times e wry night. it's behind time to make the court bigger. 

The flip side of that argument is that if you push the 3-point line back far enough to completely eliminate the corner 3 it might change the game in positive ways,  I’ll read a few articles about it tomorrow morning to see whether or not I agree with them.

Edited January 23, 2021 by conVINCEd

[shadow_operative 15932]

OT in Phoenix. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

nice back and forth, but Devin Booker has mysteriously been on the bench for the last minute or so, and Denver has taken a three point lead. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

edit- Booker appears to have some sort of hand injury. 

[UTDD 362]

If Denver had a better record right now, I'd have to vote Jokic for MVP as of today.  He's had a really great start.  I think he's #1 in OWS, WS, W/48, BPM, OBPM, # 2 in DBPM (#1 in offensive BPM and #2 for defensive BPM is not a very common combo to my knowledge), #1 PER, #1 VORP.  His VORP of 1.7 is a large gap ahead of some of the other superstars like KD/LeBron/AD (1.0), Kawhi/Embiid (0.9), Curry/Giannis (0.8).  Not that any one stat should be taken as so conclusive, but you can't ignore how good he has been so far this year.  I think he's even averaging a triple double or very close to it from the center position just to add to everything else.  But they might need to be a Top 3ish team in the West for him to have a shot, and I don't know if he can maintain this high level of play all year.  He's always been great, but not this great.

[ztejas 43528]

45 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

jesus christ dude, your feverish need to argue what was a drive-by, obviously humorous post is peak Derka. of all the posts i've ever made that caused someone to *need* to argue with me over it like this, a 10 word post about the Nets being worse with Kyrie shouldn't rank in the top 50,000, and yet here you are. pick your battles dude.

and yes, not that i have even an ounce of interest in continuing this dumbass argument, but yes, I did watch the first game and saw Colin Sexton *cooking* Kyrie Irving all night long. Kyrie absolutely played a role in the Cavs suddenly scoring like the Paul Westphal Suns. 

You referred to a team now sitting at 5th in the East as the worst team in the league. I had to take objection.

Outside of that - I will most likely defend Kyrie to a fault so it is what it is. I've defended him for years now and rate him higher than most do. It's nothing new. Pairing him with Harden - who is just as bad on D - might be a bad idea but it's still early.

[Message Board User 12396]

next two games are vs Boston & the Lakers - probably better tests than the disastrous Nets.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

I have a bold prediction to make- Mark it and capture it and memorialize it forever more. Right now- 15 or so games into the season with 75% of it remaining to be played the entire West playoffs are set- the remaining 80% of the season will do no more than shuffle around the seeding. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I have a bold prediction to make- Mark it and capture it and memorialize it forever more. Right now- 15 or so games into the season with 75% of it remaining to be played the entire West playoffs are set- the remaining 80% of the season will do no more than shuffle around the seeding. 

Swap Memphis out for GS.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Didn’t kyrie leave like 4 years ago?


No wonder players can get away with anything. Former teams kiss their feet after they departed seasons ago. Strange.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Sweet dp bro

[Zonahorn 8079]

19 hours ago, ztejas said:

Beal is an UFA after this season. Your best shot at another piece that would help you contend would be to package something generous and trade for a guy with a couple of years at least remaining on his contract. That and trying to salary dump Bledsoe on someone which won't be easy but there are some dumb GMs and owners still hanging around the league. 

Dinwiddie would be a nice target for you and could potentially be had cheap if BKN winds up being desperate for front court depth (which they should).

@Patrick Bateman Adams is actually on a pretty friendly deal the next 2 years at just $17M. There's no reason to get rid of him. 

Also - Zion is already a star level player. Over their last 7 he is putting up 27/7 (3 ORebs) on 60%+ FG with minimal turns (70%+ from the line, too). His next leap if he makes it will be superstar, top 10 player level. 

I don't care how it happens as long as Bledsoe is gone, it just needs to happen. Dinwiddie is actually a great option. I'd also look at Dipo and Lavine if the bulls blow it up.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Zonahorn

[d2o 1602]

28 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

 

Didn’t kyrie leave like 4 years ago?


No wonder players can get away with anything. Former teams kiss their feet after they departed seasons ago. Strange.

 

 

Meh, he hit the biggest shot in franchise history to finish off their first title and the only one in the city's last 60 yrs.    Not sure what you want.

[Message Board User 12396]

34 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

No wonder players can get away with anything. Former teams kiss their feet after they departed seasons ago. Strange.

Kind of like what the T-wolves did for Kevin Love who hated every femtosecond that he was stuck in the twin cities...I kid I kid.

[ChickenSandwich 9849]

12 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

The flip side of that argument is that if you push the 3-point line back far enough to completely eliminate the corner 3 it might change the game in positive ways,  I’ll read a few articles about it tomorrow morning to see whether or not I agree with them.

Interesting. Reminds me of 

Things heard at the bar....
 

During the last two minutes of the game, any non shooting foul will allow the offended team the option to shoot FTs or take the ball out of bounds. Reason to foul removed. 
 

Seems simple. Shooting fouls stay the same. Some minor shot clock tweaks might be needed to speed play up if they go 4 corners. Something like reducing the shot clock to 20 during those mins. Fouling to stop the clock becomes meaningless.

What could go wrong?

[BradInATX 9208]

Doubling down on Kyrie instead of just being like "yeah ya'll were right he's a dipshit and a net-negative to his team" is a pretty bold strategy, @ztejas. I respect the commitment to it. 

Nets are easily the most interesting team in the league, for better or worse.

Edited January 23, 2021 by BradInATX

[immortal13 4059]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Doubling down on Kyrie instead of just being like "yeah ya'll were right he's a dipshit and a net-negative to his team" is a pretty bold strategy, @ztejas. I respect the commitment to it. 

Nets are easily the most interesting team in the league, for better or worse.

You're one argumentative bastard

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Doubling down on Kyrie instead of just being like "yeah ya'll were right he's a dipshit and a net-negative to his team" is a pretty bold strategy, @ztejas. I respect the commitment to it. 

Nets are easily the most interesting team in the league, for better or worse.

Its been two games.   

[BradInATX 9208]

54 minutes ago, d2o said:

Its been two games.   

What? It's been 17 games.

Or are you excluding games that he sat out for no real reason?

[hobbes2702 13054]

18 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

The flip side of that argument is that if you push the 3-point line back far enough to completely eliminate the corner 3 it might change the game in positive ways,  I’ll read a few articles about it tomorrow morning to see whether or not I agree with them.

I don’t believe in pushing it back but I do believe in just cutting off the three line where it starts to flatten for the corner.

[d2o 1602]

10 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

What? It's been 17 games.

Or are you excluding games that he sat out for no real reason?

You nor I have any idea what was going on with him personally.

[BradInATX 9208]

You nor I have any idea what was going on with him personally.

No but I'm capable of recognizing patterns as are you.